GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Globe, Volume XXII, Issue 1990, 10 July 1880, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

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LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

Fbiday, July 9,

In the Legislative Council, The Hon. Captain Fsaseb gave notice to ask what stops Government intend to take re the overseer at Kumara mine, through whose neglect eight children had been rendered homeless.

Upon the motion given by the Hon. J. T. Peacock for Wednesday that the honorarium of Councillors shall not be paid this year, Sir D. Bell gave notice of amendment, not stating its purport. On the motion for the third reading of the Native Succession Bill, The Hon. W. H. Reynolds moved that it be thrown out, but the proposition was negatived, and the third reading carried. The Hon. F. Whitakee moved the second reading of the Elections Petitions Bill, explaining that it proposed to initiate a reform which had been carried out in England. The Hon. G. M, Wateehousb expressed his fear that the new tribunal in so small a country would not bo above party feeling. The Hon. N. Wilson thought that one Judge to try the petitions wovdd be better than two.

On the motion of Sir F. D. Bell, who said that he should have several points to argue in the matter, the debate was adjourned till Tuesday. On the motion for the second reading of the Pharmacy Bill, the Hons. Waterhouse, Pollen, and Feasbe argued that it proposed to create a monopoly, an objection in a young country, and numerous defects in the measure were pointed out. Ultimately the second reading was carried, and the Bill referred to a Select Committee. A large part of the sitting was occupied in Committee on the Native Reserves Bill and Wellington Racing Club Bill. Much opposition was shown to many clauses of both Bills, and the former being only partly got through, the Council rose at 5.20 p.m. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVESFeiday, July 9. The House met at 3 30 p.m. PETITION. Sir G. Geey presented a petition from 900 electors at the Thames, sotting forth that they viewed with alarm the decision of the Committee re the Christchurch election, and praying that the finding that Sir G. Grey had not been elected for the seat, bo expunged from the records of the House. NOTICES OP MOTION. Mr Baeeon gave notice that he would move on Wednesday—“ In view of the serious loss and inconvenience that the premature withdrawal of subsidies is certain to cause to local bodies which have made financial arrangements depending on the continuance of those subsidies as fixed by statute, Government bo requested to make provision for the payment of such subsidies until the year 1881, in accordance with the Financial Arrangements Act, 1876.” Mr Mueeay gave notice that he would ask if, in reducing the Civil Service salaries, it was intended to make similar reductions on pensions, especially pensions payable to absentees. Mr Andeews gave notice that ho would ask whether the removal of the Railway Commissioner’s department was intended to be permanent, and if the buildings in Dunedin were of a permanent character. CIVIL SBETICE EEPOET. The Hon. J. Hall laid on the table a reply by the North Island Commissioner to the Civil Service report. QUESTIONS. Replying to Mr Hutchison, The Hon. W. Rolleston said that the report of the Education Department was in the hands of the printer, and would be produced at an early date. Replying to Mr Andrews, The Hon. J. Beyce said that Government had not se-'t to England for Volunteer uniforms. They had merely sent for estimates of the cost. Judging from what the Wellington corps had paid, he believed that the English prices would be 50 per cent, below colonial ones. Replying to Mr Jones, The Hon. J. Hall said that certain telegrams between the Agent-General and the Government have been laid before the Public Accounts Committee, and on the recommendation of that body were not included in the correspondence published. Replying to Mr Moornouse, The Hon. J. Hall said that no instructions had besu forwarded to Sir J. Vogel to represent Now Zealand at meetings held in London to consider the question of Imperial unity. Replying to Mr Tole, The Hon. J. Hall said that to convert the building lately used as a railway station at

Newmarket into Telegraph and Post Offices would involve the appointment of an additional officer, which the Government were not prepared to do. Replying to Mr Swanson, The Hon. W. Eollbston said that Government would consider petition No. 165, of the Auckland Volunteers, referred to in the journals of the House, on the 14th October, 1878, and give an answer before the close of the ssssion. Beplying to Sir G. Grey, The Hon. J. Bbycb said that seventeen blocks of the Patetero land were being put through the court at present, and that the “ two others ” who, together with Messrs Sheehan and Walker, were alleged to have attended the Native Minister at the Chief Commissioner’s Office, Auckland, were the lessees, Messrs Walker, Moon, Rich, Ditworth and Allan. PIEST BEADING. On the motion of Mr Stevens, the Public Health Act Amendment Bill was introduced and road a first time. ADDITIONAL SITTING DAY. On the motion of the Hon. J. Hall it was agreed that the House should sit at 2.30 p.m. on Monday. COMMITTEE OP SUPPLY. The House then went into Committee of Supply. The Hon. J. Hall explained that Government understood that the resolution of the member for Cheviot would bind them to make a reduction of ten per cent, on all salaries, pay and wages, and that would be provided for in the Appropriation Acts. While applying the rule generallyj there were certain exceptional cases in which it would not bo right to apply the reduction, and these Government would take the responsibility of excepting. As to wages, Government found that no injustice would be done in applying the resolution, as in most cases the wages paid by the Government were higher than those paid by private employers. Replying to a question of the Hon. W. Gisborne’s, The Hon. J. Hall said that the reduction meant ten per cent, on salaries, and also a further reduction consequent upon the consolidation of offices.

The Hon. J. Hall moved the vote, Postal Department, General Post-office, £4OOO. Mr Wood compared the estimates with the appropriation made some years ago. Ho pointed out that in 1870—ten years ago—the sum appropriated was £434,148, and now it was close on two millions. The population ten years ago was 250,000, now it did not exceed 450,000, so that the very large increase sought was not justified by an increase of population. Moreover, intercommunication was much more complete and frequent than it was ten years ago. He moved that the vote be reduced £SOO. Mr Macandeew said that Government not having seen its way to take back the estimates and make the reductions suggested, the best way for them would be to pass the estimates in a lump, and leave the Government to make reductions according to their own ideas. That would enable them to get away home sooner. He did not see what bettor could be done.

Mr Seddon demurred to that, contending that the estimates were a mass of inequalities. It was better that these should be considered in detail.

Mr Moss said that the proposal to reduce 10 per cent, from every salary, large and small, was simply a thing that could not be done. Dr Wallis said that after the resolution of tbe House to reduce salaries 10 per cent, now they were told that Government would just make these reductions as they thought fit.

The Hon. J. Hall said that what Government proposed was to deduct the sum of 10 per cent, from the salaries as voted. It was only in exceptional cases that Government would exercise discretionary powers. In some cases they would deduct more than 10 per cent., in others less. By that means Government would be enabled to remedy any inequalities that might bo discovered. The appronriations for 1879 and 1880 had been contrasted. Now as showing the rate at which the. business of the Postal Department had increased, he stated that in 1870 the number of letters was something over two millions. Now they had increased to considerably over seven millions. He had ascertained that the work of the deDartment could not be conducted with fewer lands.

Mr London characterised the proposal of Mr Maoandrew as rubbish, and _on being challenged by the Speaker, he inquired if he was not allowed to speak the truth. They wore there to inquire into these appropriations and not to vote them in a lump as had been proposed by Mr Maoandrew. Referring to the employes in that building, he said it was a shame for the Government to keep a regiment of young men, just training them for crime, when they might be profitably engaged in making roads and ditches. They could do with a great many _ fewer hands. The old ones- should get their pensions and the young ones should be sent about their business. Whether he was in a minority or not, he would always take care to look into the expenditure in detail. Dr. Wallis said that they were sent there for the purpose of looking after the financial affairs of the colony. It was their bounden duty to go into the estimates in detail, Mr Ireland was of opinion that the proposal of the member for Port Chalmers should be followed, and that it should be left with the Government to make the reductions decided upon. Mr Maoandrew said that they might go on discussing item by item if they chose, but he could tell them from experience that their labor would bo in vain. The estimates would come out of Committee as they had gone in.

Mr Shephaed said that the House, having agreed to a scale of reductions, did not see what more they could do. As a party man, he did not see that any other thing could be done but to leave it with the Government during the recess to make the reductions indicated. For their own honor, he felt constrained to say they would be bound to give effect to these proposals.

The Hon. J. Hall said last session a test vote was taken as to salaries under £2OO. That having been done, the matter was left in the hands of the Government, who loyally carried out the wishes of the House.

The Hon. Major Atkinson said as soon as the estimates were passed he would be prepared to show how much would be_ saved. The House, having confirmed the principle, ought to leave the Government to carry out the proposition in detail, as a contrary proposition evinced a want of confidence in the Government.

Mr Saundees considered that the persistent conduct of the member for Hokitika in imputing dishonest motives to the Government was most unparliamentary. No man with a duo sense of personal respect would be disposed to occupy a seat in the Government which was liable to be assailed in the manner Mr Seddon had been guilty of. He (Mr Saunders) was well known as one of the strongest advocates for retrenchment to be found in the House, still at the same time he could not allow his retrenchment predilections to blind him to the fact that the member for Hokitika was actuated, not by retrenchment motives, but simply by obstructive motives. Mr Sbddon rose to reply, his remarks being interrupted by the 5.30 adjournment. EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30. COMMITTEE OP SUPPLY. Mr Seddon resumed the debate. He complained that Mr Saunders had done him an injustice, and attempted to coerce him in the discharge of his duty to his constituents. What he contended for was that the Civil Service was too strong for the Government, and that the proposed reductions would not be made upon their salaries. That was the reason he wished to get the items gone into one by one, thereby giving him a chance of assisting the Government in making fair and equitable retrenchments. The motion for the reduction of the items by £SOO was then put and lost on the voices. Mr George then moved that it be reduced by a sum of £250, which represented the reduction resolved on by the House. On a division the ayes were 26 j noes, 35. The reduction was lost. Mr Seddon moved that the amount be reduced by £2OO, which was lost on the voices. That the item be passed as it was printed, was then put and carried. The item £43,429, chief offices and suboffices, was then put. The Hon. J. Hall moved that the sum be reduced £IOO. The amendment was agreed to. On the vote conveyances of mails by sea, £63.521, The Hon. J. Hall moved that it be reduced to £60,523, by omitting the Nelson and Hokitika service and not renewing the intercolonial contract.

i Mr Seddon said that this was another - experiment, and, as usual, was first attempted at the expense of the West Coast. What was proposed was to knock off the West Coset service, which would be s groat hardship. At 1 present they got a large amount of goods ■ from other parts of New Zealand, but by ont--1 ting off this lino they would have to go back again and establish business relations with Melbourne. Under the circumstances he would divide the House on the proposed redaction. Mr J. B. Fishee was also astonished that the only saving should be at the expense of the West Coast. Ho would ask the House not to vote for this saving. The Hon. J. Hall denied that the West Coast was the only service proposed to be reduced, and pointed out a number of others connected with the East Coast. Ho assured the House that the reductions had been mode in good faith. Mr Macandbew agreed in the proposal for the reduction, Mr Pitt said that the reduction aimed at a powerful incentive to settlement, and as such it should not be agreed to. What he thought ought to be attacked was such an item as that of the intercolonial service, £5000: The amendment was withdrawn and the items taken up separately. The Hon. J. HALE-moved that the item of the vote intorprovincial service, £6500, be reduced £9OO, from Nelson to Westport. Mr Seddon spoke against the withdrawal of the West Coast mail service. On a division the ayes were 44, noes 15. The amendment for the reduction was carried. On the item, Blind Bay Service, £240, Mr Seddon moved that it be struck out. Mr Hubstiiousb said this was the only means of communication for a- resident population of 1000. Mr Gibbs also spoke against the proposal for having the vote struck out. The amendment was withdrawn. The item, Intercolonial Service, £SOOO, was reduced by £1998, on the motion of the Hon. J. Hall. The item, mail agents and travelling allowances was next considered. The Hon, J. Hail stated that two mail agents were employed each way. They were usually officers of the Postal department requiring a holiday. Dr. Wallis contended that the service was altogether unnecessary. Mr Hubst defended the service as being necessary. Mr Baeeon said that the agents fairly earned the money. The motion that the item be reduced by £250 was put, and lost on the voices. The general vote as reduced was put and carried. The vote, conveyance of inland mails, £32,375, was reduced £I4OO, the Hon. J. i Hall stating that, ai contracts fall in, they ■ hope to save £5500 a year. A coach between Napier and Tauraiga would be dispensed with. On the item carriage of mails by railway, £13,700, the Hon. J. Hall proposed to reduce the item by £12,500. Mr Mac'andeew said the other item : ought to appear, as it would show persons at home the real value of our railway system. It was a fair and legitimate earning for which the railways ought to take credit. i Mr Kelly concurred in that opinim. The Hon. J. Hall said it could appear without being voted. The reduction was agreed to. i The Hon. J. Hall, in introducing the ; Telegraph Department estimates, said he was glad to say that the revenue was recovering. That was an indication of improvement ; generally. He quoted from the report showing the particulars of what had been done. During the year the duplex system had been introduced to a large extent, and a very great saving had been effected. During the year the Department has taken over the railway telegraphs, thereby effecting a saving of £2700 a year. A considerable number of 1 amalgamations have been made between this department and the Postal department, and a number of further amalgamations were in course of being effected. In some instances this had given rise to inconvenience, but that was more than counterbalanced by the saving. There were eighty-four stations that did not pay expenses, the total loss being £SBOO. He enumerated the offices which did not pay. The loss divided among the messages was in these offices 5d in each message sent or received. The guarantee system did not meet the difficulty or work satisfactorily. The first year was paid, the second there was grumbling, and the third year nothing was got at all. What they proposed was to add an extra sixpence to messages to and from these offices. They had either to do that or close them altogether. The savings would be £3400, but against that they would have £9OO to pay as compensation for dismissals. They also proposed to ■ 1 dispense with one of the inspectors in the North Island. They proposed also to effect a saving on the cable subsidy to the extent of sixpence a message. Another saving could be effected in regard to the cable service. The late Government had entered into a contract with the other Australian colonies regarding the duplication of the Port Darwin cable. That contract was subject to the confirmation of Parliament, but he considered the terms so inequitable to New Zealand that, although in fulfilment of the promise given by the previous Government he would submit tbe resolution to the House, giving it an opportunity of confirming the contract, ho could not advocate that course being adopted. Some £6OOO a year would be saved by not agreeing to the terms. He concluded by proposing the vote, £109,271 10s.

Mr Mobs said that in dispensing with the services of officers under the circumstances referred to by the Premier, the usual thing was to commence with the latest taken on. It was hardly fair to attach the slur of incompetence to those who were discharged. Mr Seddon said that in other countries this was considered to be work specially adapted for females. They had not been a success in the past here, but he thought that that was not sufficient to discourage them from persevering further than they had gone.. On the motion of the Hon. J. Hall, the vote was passed, less a sum of £3704. The remainder of the telegraph vote was passed. Colonial Secretary’s Department —The vote Colonial Secretary’s office, £2005, was passed. On the vote Messenger and Office-keepers for the department, item messengers £1823, Mr Wood proposed a reduction of £4OO, which, on a division, was lost. Ayes, 25 ; noes, 27. A further amendment, that the vote be reduced £lO9 10s, was put and carried. The vote, as reduced, was passed. Electoral department vote, £3686 —After discussion, Mr Qeoege moved the reduction of the vote by £250, that amount representing the increase proposed to registrars of electors, who were already paid for other duties. After discussion, Mr George asked leave to withdraw his amendment.