FIRE POLICE.

Globe, Volume XXII, Issue 1987, 7 July 1880, Page 4

FIRE POLICE.

A enecial meeting of the Fire Police, con* vaned by Captain Mitchell, to consider the navr Fire Brigades Act proposed to be introduced under the auspices of the United Fire Brigades Association, was held at the Lichfield’ street Station last night. Present—Captain Mi.chell (in tho chair), Supt. Harris Officers Bishop, Alport, King. Messrs Smith, Sandstein, Kirk, Lezard, Banko, Manning, H. Davis, Danford, Atkinson, Suffiold, Piper, Sutherland, J. Flaming, Sutherland, M Hall. Captain Hilohell ssid that he had called the meeting that evening to consider the position of the force re the new Bill before the House, and whether the force should remain as an auxiliary to the fire depart merit of the city. There was no doubt of this that there had besn a want of vitality in tho force for tho lust two years, but this had arisen he thought from tho anomalous position of the force? [Hear, hear.] He had endeavored to get a o.'auso in the amendments proposed in the Municipal Corporations Act, fixing the otatus of tho Fite Police, and a conference Lad taken place on tho subject between the j Fire Police] Fire Brigade, and City Council. As ha understood it, the conclusion arrived at was that l,he force should elect its own offiesrs and make its own rules, but there was still something wanting in the ascertaining of their position. It was premised, however, that sufficient power should bo given in the Bill promoted by the United Fire Brigades Association. How far this had been done would bo gathered from tho clauses. He would read them, and give his opinion on them. At the outset he should object to the designation of the chief officer ae chief fire inspector. This officer had a very great amount of power, and he should like to see that the chief officer of the Fire Brigade should be chief of tho fire department, leaving the Fire Police to elect their own managing officers. The duty of the fire department under Mr Superintendent Harris was tho extinction of fires, and for that purpose to use the plant committed to their charge by tho City Council. But how different wore the duties of tho Fire Police, and ho took it that the chief of fire department would bo eo engaged with tho work of supervising the extinction of the fire that he could not carry out that of looking after the Fire Police as their own officers would. Ho had in his hanis tho rules of the Underwriters Fire Patrol in San Francisco, who carried out duties similar to those of the Fire Police, -who were recognised by the State, and elected their own officers. This body worked in ■unison with the fire department, and this was just what ho wanted to see here, and that was what existed up to the time when they were told that they could not be sworn inlander the Municipal Ac t. He thought it was quite possible for the members of the force and the brigade to work amicably, and ho thought it was not too much to ask that the Fire Police should, under the supervision of tho Mayor, fr?me its own by-laws, and elect its own officers, who should hold a position. In clause 6 he would alter the name of the officer in command of the brigade from chief fire inspector to chief of tho fire department, and that he should bo appointed as a fire inspector, having associated with him another fire inspector with equal powers, but haying nothing to do with the working of the Fire Brigade, but simply to advise as to the removal of buildings, Ao. In clause 8, tho chief fire inspector or any other officer in charge was authorised to do certain things. Now there was no mention of whore this officer should come from, or who ho was to be, whether belonging to the Fire Brigade or Fire Police. This other officer not stated might, under this Bill, take charge of tho Fire Brigade, Fire Police, or Salvage Corps, so that he thought this part of the Act was faulty, as not stating what tho position of the officer was or who he was to be. He thought it was only right that the Fire Police should know who this was to be, as while tho officers of tho Fire Police were always ready to place themselves under command of Superintendent Harris, yet he did not think that Superintendent Harris would wish to see his brother officers and himself placed under command of any one who might take charge of and work the brigade. In clause 12 it was provided that the Fire Police should be under the command of the chief fire inspector, or any person whom he might authorise. This, he took it, was not a position which tho Fire Police could at all occupy, as they would bo placed in the position of having to obey the orders of anyone the chief fire inspector might appoint. The clause giving the members of the Fire Police the powers of a constable he heartily approved of. He thought that .it was easily to be arranged that both bodies could work well together, and he thought that unless their position was properly assured he for one was prepared to give up the responsibility of carrying on the force. Mr Superintendent Harris said Captain Mitchell had unintentionally fallen into some errors. His great objection to tho Bill was that the chief fire inspector had too much power; now the fact was that he bad not any more than he had now. He desired to point out that sub -section 8 stated that the chief fire inspector would take charge of bodies placing their services at the disposal of the Council, thereby assuming that they would have a clear understanding as to their position. As to the Bill now before the House, he should have neither more nor less power than he had now. It simply arose from the desire to extend the Fire Police system to the other parts of the colony. This was the outcome of tho conference, and if he had, in doing this, done anything to offend the Fire Police, he was sorry; but be desired to point out that it was the provisions of tho Ordinance of 1864, which had been found'to work well for twelve years. He thought this, that tho section containing the words, “who shall have placed their services at the disposal of tho Council,” would meet all the objections, as no corps would do this without ascertaining what their position would be. Officer Alport thought that there had been a slight want of courtesy in not consulting the Fire Police body on the subject. He thought either that the Fire Police should have been left out of the Act altogether or have an Act of their own. He should like to coe the section go on to say that the Fire Police should have the power to elect their own officers end frame their own rules. He ehonld most decidedly object to the Fire Police being under the orders of any one who might be appointed by the chief fire inspector. What he should suggest was this, that a committee should' be appointed to go through the Act and report upon it. [Hear, hear.] Mr 8. Manning would desire to ask who would be in charge of the Fire Brigade in the absence of Superintendent Harris. Mr Superintendent Harris said that in this case, under the present Bill, the case would obtain as now, that the Fire Police would act under their own officers, and the next fire inspector in command would bo Captain Mitchell. He never left town without telling the Brigade that in case of requiring advice they must go to Captain Mitchell, and telling Captain Mitchell of the fact. Now ho said that the objections urged against the Bill wore imaginary. A clause in tho Municipal Corporations Act gave him os chief fire inspector power to call upon all regular constables to aid the Fire Brigade, but he had never fiven a Eingle order to the police. Nor had o given a single order to the Fire Police, and tho only reason why he hod urged this matter so strongly was that ha bad seen the necessity of having but one head in tho time of a fire.

Mr Manning said he did not think that Superintendent Harris had answered his question. Mr Superintendent Harris said that the rules of the Eire Brigade and Eire Police provided that the Fire Polio© in the case of absence of the chief fire inspector, would bo under their own officere. As regarded the Eire Brigade, he would point out that the foreman of the brigade in whose district the fire broke out would be in charge in the absence of the chief lire inspector. Captain Milohell said that was precisely what ho had pointed out. The foreman would, in taking charge of tho brigade, as stated by Mr Superintendent Harris, take charge of the Eire Police and all its auxiliaries. This was what was provided for by the Bill. Mr H. Davis thought that the Fire Police should be entirely separate from the Eire Brigade for the protection of property, and acting under their own officers altogether. He thought that they should ask the Mayor to constitute the Eire Police an independent body, under their own officers. Officer Bishop said tho City Council had considered the Bill, and had made some amendments in it. In clause 6 they had altered the title of chief inspector to superintendent of tho fire brigade. In clause 8 the Council proposed to amend it by putting tho power in the bands of the fire inspector or fire inspectors. In clause 12 the alteration

made was omitting the words “ or any person authorised by the chief fire inspector,” limit* it>g the command to the fire inspectors. Those were the only clauses affecting Fire Police in any way in which alteration had been made by the City Council, viz., clauses 6,8, and 12.

Mr Superintendent Harris said that no one could object to the amendments proposed by the City Council. The only reason for putting the words “ fire inspector ” was to make a uniform title.

Captain Mitchell said that it was very necessary to have the Bill clear, as they knew how Acts and by-laws were pulled to pieces by the legal fraternity. He wished, therefore, to see a clause inserted giving the force power to make their own rules and elect thoir own officers. Mr Superintendent Harris said that really there was all in the Bill that was asked for at the conference, and that was one reason why he had not submitted the matter to the force. Officer Alport still contended that tho insurance companies should have been consulted. Oapt. Milcbell said that he wruld suggest tho addition in clause 12 of the Bill, after the words “who shall act as a firo police,” tho following, “ who may make their own laws, and appoint their own officers, subject to tho approval of tho mayor for the time being. Mr Superintendent Harris said that with regard to the consultation of the Fire Insurance Companiea he might eay that Mr A. H. Jack, who sat in conference with them, was the president of the United Fire Insurance Companies, and had taken charge of the Bill to Wellington. Further than this, ho should like to point out that the Council in thoir amendments had made the Insurance Companies liable to pay one-third of the whole coat of the works undertaken for fire-preven-tion purposes, so that they might have to pay a third of the cost of water-works. Mr Atkinson moved —“That the Force accept tho Aot as amended.” Mr Piper would like it to be distinctly understood whether the foreman in charge of tho district in absence of Mr Superintendent Harris would be in chargo of the Fire Police 9 This, he thought, was the point. [Hear, hear.] . Mr Superintendent Harris said ho distinctly wished it to be understood that in no case would the foreman of the brigade have any charge of the Fire Police. He would desire to again reiterate that the officers of the Firo Police would be in charge of that body in case of his (Mr Harris’) absence. If they would just reflect for one moment they would see that this was now provided for in their by-laws and was not altered by the Bill. Captain Mitchell thought it was plain that, under the Bill, the foreman in charge in Mr Harris’ absence had all his powers. Mr Superintendent Harris distinctly denied that this was so. Mr Sandatein would like to see the bylaws incorporated in the Bill, so that thty could got a status. Mr Superintendent Harris pointed out that the City Council were the supreme controlling power, and would see that no one body should override another. Mr Sandatein said, that what they wanted to see was a provision of tho Bill enabling them to make their own rules. Captain Mitchell said that ho would be prepared to see the rules and election of officers subject to the approval of the chief of tho Fire Department as well ns the Mayor. Mr Atkinson now moved—“ That the Bill now before tho House, for tho constitution of Fire Brigades, has the approval of the members of the Fire Police.” Mr M. Hall seconded the motion. Mr Superintendent Harris said he had no wish to push on the Bill. Ho would, if necessary, withdraw tho Bill until they had had time to consider tho matter. If the Fire Police desired to have any further amendments inserted in tho Bill, he would submit them to the executive officers of tho Association, and if they were such as could be accepted with benefit to the whole of tho colony they would no doubt be accepted. If, on the contrary, they were not deemed so, he would undertake to have the Bill withdrawn until they had had time to consider the Bill. He thought he had mat the Fire Police when the very words of the conference held on the matter were inserted in tho Bill. The provisions with reference to the Firo Police were taken verbatim by the town clerk from Captain Mitchell. His only wish was to see the best done for fire prevention that could be done. Mr Sandstein proposed as an amendment—- “ That the officers of the Fire Police meet and consider the Bill, and bring up a report to an adjourned meeting.” Mr Sutherland thought that the whole discussion had taken a personal turn, which was to be deprecated. Mr W. H. Smith said that he thought the whole gist of the matter was the omission of the power to the Fire Police to elect their own officers. Ho should suggest the following : —“That in order to maintain perfect unanimity for the harmonious working of both Fire Brigade and Fire Police (or other bodies where they do not exist), the latter shall have the power to draw up their own by-laws, and elect their own officers, who shall work irrespective of the officer or officers of the Fire Brigade.” After some disenssion Mr Manning seconded Mr Sandstein's amendment. Mr Kirk said that the officers of the Fire Police having had a conference with the officers of the Fire Brigade on this very subject, he thought that it was a waste of time to consider the same thing. The amendment was put and lost. Mr Smith then put hia suggestion in the form of an amendment. . Mr Superintendent Harris again reiterated his desire to meet tho Fire Police in every way. Even if tho words spoken of were inserted, they would have no more power than now. Mr M. Hall thought that as there was no provision in tho BUI against the election by the force of their own officers, that it might be done. Some further discussion took place, and ultimately Captain Mitchell’s proposition was again read, and Superintendent Harris expressed his approval of it. Mr Superintendent Harris, in answer to Mr Kirk, said that nine members of the Fire Police had met and altered the rules without consulting the police, and he had therefore pointed out to the Mayor that this would cause dissension. He therefore requested the Mayor to withhold his signature to the bylaws untU the subject had been discussed by the whole body. It oonld not be at all supposed that nine men should legislate for fifty. The whole thing was a *!ig at himself. Some further discussion took place, and ultimately Mr Smith moved—“ That in clause 12 the following words bo added after the words l as a Fire Police ’ the words : who shall frame rules and appoint officers subject to the approval of the Mayor for the time being.” Mr Lezard seconded tho was agreed to. On the motion of Mr Atkinson it was agreed that the Bill with the amendment be accepted by tho Firo Police, and the chairman was requested to forward the same to Mr Stevens, the United Firo Brigades Association, and the City Council. The resignation of Mr O. P. Hulbert as an officer ef the force was accepted. Captain Mitchell oaid that he should call the members together in August. Mr Banks was appointed as an officer until the election of one in Mr Hulbert’s place. Yotes of thanks to Superintendent Harris and Captain Mitchell were passed. Tho former, in acknowledging the vote, said that Mr Stevens had been blamed unjustly for introducing the Bill. If there was auy blame ho (Superintendent Harris) was tho one who should bear it, as he had requested Mr Stevens, who had presented thoir petition in a former session, to take charge of the Bill, and he, believing that it was for the benefit of the public, had consented to do so. The proceedings then terminated.