GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Globe, Volume XXII, Issue 1981, 30 June 1880, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

[PEE PEBSS ASSOCIATION SPECIAL WIRE] LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Tuesday, June 29. In the Legislative Council, in reply to the Hon. Oapt. Fraser, The Hon. F. Whitaker said that Government house and grounds were let to Mr Bonar for £l2O a year. Sir F. D. Bell asked if the Government would recommend to Parliament that Sir J. Yogel should receive any commission for the inscription of the last loan. The Attoeney-Genbbal said that the question was now an open one, but the Government would in due time submit its decisions and proposals to Parliament, The Hon. Oapt. Fraser withdrew his motion for a Select Committee to inquire into the management of the Otago Industrial School, The Hon, Col. Bektt moved the appointment of a Select Committee to inquire into the late Volunteer outrages. There was a debate of some length, in which the Hon. Col. Brett impugned the military competence of Col. Stavely and the education of Capt. Smith. The Hons. Col. Whitmore, G. M. Waterhouse, and several others spoke in the discussion, and ultimately, on the Hon. F. Whitaker saying that the Defence Minister would attend to the matter, the motion was withdrawn on that understanding. The Hon. Mr Habt moved for a return of the number of theatres and racecourses in the colony, saying that by such a return, in conjunction with the Civil Service report, members would see some interesting facts as to the present depression. The Hon. F. Whitaker said that Government had no records from which such a return could be made up, though they would try to get the information from local authorities. The motion was withdrawn. A return was ordered, on the motion of Sir F. D. Bell, of the amount overdue on deferred payment land in Otago. The Aliens Bill and the Marriage Bill were passed through Committee. A large amount of business was postponed, and some minor matters being disposed of the Council rose at 5 p.m. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, Tuesday, Junb 29, The House met at 2 30 p.m. notices oe motion. Mr Macandbew gave notice that ho would ask if a statement had been received from the Commissioner of the South Island Railways in reply to the charges made against him in the Civil Service Commission report. The Hon. R. Olives said that a statement had been received, and that it was in the hands of the printer, and would shortly be in circulation. Mr Pykb gave notice that he would ask if the Government intended to give effect to the recommendation of the Civil Service Commission re the importation of materials for

heavy contracts in connection with the railway department. Mr Babeon gave notice that ho would ask the name of the contractor who supplied a number of railway carriages of defective material and construction, reported in the Civil Service Commission Report ; also the responsible head of the department to which they were supplied, and who passed the certificate for payments Mr Weight gave notice that he would ask if the Government intend to put a stop to the importation of foreign timber for railway works purposes. Mr Shanks gave notice of a question re deferred payment settlers in arrears, with the view of ascertaining if the Government proposed to protect the interests of those parties. The Hon. Major Atkinson gave notice that on Thursday ha would move for an imprest supply to enable him to provide for the public business. PETITIONS. Mr Stswaet presented a petition from the officers of the Friendly Societies in Otago ■ relative to the amendment of the Friendly Societies Act. Mr Hibst presented two petitions from residents in Southland, praying for the appointment of a Select Committee re the rabbit nuisance. QUESTIONS. Replying to a question put by , Mr Do Lautour, The Hon. J. Hall said that the Native Commission report was in the hands of the printer, and, along with the evidence taken, would bo placed on the table in about ten days. The Hon. B. Richaedson, reverting to a question put by him a few days ago relative to the practice followed by the Lyttelton gaol authorities of causing prisoners under remand for trial to wear prison clothes, said that he hud since ascertained that the practice was still being insisted upon, the result being that unnecessary indignities wore put upon those persons. The Hon. W. Rolleston replied, that with a view of remedying the complaint, he had made arrangements for prisoners under trial being removed to Addington Gaol, where better classification would be observed. Replying to Mr Stevens, The Hon. R. Oliver said that the Wa--mafcariri Gorge Railway line had been reserved for the unemployed, but until other sections of the line were filled up, the work could not be gone on with. Replying to Mr Bain, The Hon. R. Olivee said that firewood as fuel to locomotives would bo more expensive than coal. Further investigations, however, would be made with a view to ascertaining whether or not firewood could bo judiciously employed under the circumstances. Replying to Mr Stevens, The Hon. T. Dick said that the report was not true that the plaintiff’s solicitor in the “ Waka Maori ” case had been paid £BOO in excess of the taxed costs, or any sum whatever in excess of the taxation. Replying to Captain Colbeck, The Hon. Major Atkinson said that in the present state of colonial finance the Government could not undertake to place a light on Kaipara Hoads, as a guide to vessels entering that port. Replying to Oapt. Colbeck, The Hon. R. Olivee said that a flying survey was being made of the North Auckland railway, but he did not know when it would be completed. Replying to Mr Pyke, The Hon. R. Olivee said that the first section of the Tapanui branch railway will be opened for traffic in the course of a week or two. Replying to Mr Sutton, The Hon. B. Olivee said that the total amount credited to the railway department for special trains for ministers was £455 15s. Mr Seddon asked the Minister for Education whether he will cause to be printed a uniform aeries of examination papers, such papers to have questions given in accordance with the standards issued by the Educational Department, and under which children attending the Public Schools of the colony are classified and taught. The Hon. W. Rolleston replied that the subject was one of importance. Government could not take upon themselves to dictate to the education boards, but a specimen paper would be printed and forwarded to the Boards, as a guide to the inspectors in conducting the examinations. Replying to Mr Sutton, The Hon. T. Dick said that the amount paid to Messrs Izard and Bell in the Waka Maori case was £3160, A sum of £415 was deducted from the original Bill of particulars on taxation, and it was not correct that, despite the amount taxed off, the bill had been paid in full. NEW BILL. The Representation Bill was introduced by the Hon. J. Hall, and read a first time, and its second reading fixed for Thursday week. NO-CONFIDBNCB DEBATE. The no-confidence debate was resumed by Mr Speight, who hoped that the Colonial Secretary would soon find himself associated with those who were more in accord with his feelings, as shown by what transpired on Friday night. The Colonial Treasurer appeared to arrogate to himself the sole power of the understanding of 'the finance of the country. The fact was, that if he could finance for the present, ho appeared to care very little indeed about the future. The whole scheme of the statement was taxation, local and general. He objected to the scheme proposed tor local finance. There was nothing broad or comprehensive in it. He opposed the board for local works. There was not one atom of relief held out to Boards struggling to maintain the public interests of their districts. It would have been more honest if he had said frankly, “ we can give you the subsidies no longer,” and left the thing there. Mr Speight was alluding in terms of condemnation to an answer given in Auckland by the Minister of Public Works to Mr Hamlin about letters being unanswered, when The Hon, R. Olivee denied that he had been correctly reported on that occasion. Mr Speight continued condemning an increase in the railway tariff. It was out of the question to talk about the House reducing the estimates. It would have to be done by the Government itself. They had been told by the Government that this reduction could not be made this session, but that it would be attempted during the recess. That was simply locking the door after the horse was stolen. It would have to be done, and done at once. The remarks made by the member for Rangitikoi were in very bad taste. He counselled them to lay aside party feeling, join cordially in united endeavors to face the situation, and at the same time he made a most unjustifiable attack upon the member for the Thames, and had the bad taste to make reference to the salary drawn by that gentleman when he was Premier of the colony. Ho had also attempted to mislead them in reference to the property tax. It might be true that the tax would not fall on more than two-thirds of the inhabitants, still the fact remained that every person was bound to make a return of his estate and effects. That was an obj ectionable feature of the Act, and one against which the main excaption existed. If it was only two-thirds of the population to whom the case would directly apply, still the fact remained that it applied indirectly to all classes. The men affected by the tax were bound to curtail their expenditure, which meant a check to enterprise and a reduction in wages. What he mainly objected to, however, was that taxation should precede retrenchment. Lot them make retrenchment first, and then they would bo better able to judge the amount and character of the taxation that would bo required. Mr Fulton made a few preliminary remarks in support of the Government, which wore interrupted by the 5.30 adjournment. EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30, NO-CONFIDENCE DEBATE, Mr Fulton resumed the debate. Alluding to the property tax ho said that it had been objected to on the ground that it presented inducements for dishonesty. Ho scouted the idea that for the sake of the paltry saving that would thereby bo effected the community, or any perceptible number thereof, would act in such a way. The only thing ho blamed the Government for was not having stood firm and unmoved in their proposals as originally made. The Treasurer had acted rightly in making known the true facts of the case regarding their financial condition. By that means the country at large would bo bettor enable! to see the true facts of the situation, and in that way moderate the demands, which have hitherto been exorbitant. Major Te Wheoeo argued that a medium form of taxation should be imposed at first, until the population became better acquainted with the process, after which they might increase the amount. By that means they

would serve their purposes, and at the same time keep the population from leaving the colony. He agreed in the opinion that no further loans should be incurred, and that greater economy should be observed in their expenditure, and likewise in the maintenance of the armed constabulary on the West Coast. No further railway works should be undertaken unless at the cost of the districts requiring such works, Mr Gibbs thought that it was wrong to make so many exceptions under the Property Tax. With the principle of the tax, however, he agreed. Ho could understand that the trading community would feel the tax somewhat heavily, and yet they were the persons from whom ho had heard the least complaints. Under the new local finance proposals he thought that the outlying districts would find the arrangement considerably fairer than the arrangement that had hitherto existed. Mr Tainui said that the imposition of the tax on Native lands would entail a great hardship on the Natives. When the Bill was brought down he would do his best to get it thrown out. He condemned the Native Bills proposed to be brought forward. Mr Andrews supported the land tax. He contended that they had made roads, harbors, &e., not for the benefit of property as defined by the property tax, but for the benefit of land. It had been alleged that ample provision existed for secrecy under the valuation of the property tax. Ho knew differently in his own case. One of these valuators or assessors had waited upon him. Ho was a seedy individual, what he would call a “ halfpint man,” and that individual questioned him as to the value of his property, its burdens, and by whom it was carefully noted down. Ho had no hesitation in saying that for a few shillings he could have got out of this individual whatever information he might have required. That was what they called ample provision for secrecy. He approved of the beer tax. Two-thirds of the lunacy, the crime, and pauperism of the land, was occasioned by the use of drink, and it was only right that it should be taxed for the maintenance of the misery it had been instrumental in making. He advocated the extension of the stamp duties, so that everyone receiving say from £1 to £5 should pay Id, and so on an additional Id being charged for every additional £5. He contended that the business of the country should be conducted more on the principle of a private firm than it was. Ho instanced the Land Transfer Department, Wellington. It cast a sum of £1770 for the year, and its revenues did not exceed the modest sum of £2030. Now in such a case what would a private mercantile firm do? Why, they would have it remodelled at once. If they put an advertisement in to-morrow morning’s paper for tenders from persons willing to conduct the business of that department, he ventured to say that they would have a hundred applications from competent men in Wellington to do the work for £3OO a year. It was the Government that would have to do the work of retrenchment, and it could not be delayed. The country would be up in arms against the existing outrageous state of things. At a time when they had so many unemployed claims to look to, was it not monstrous that additional salaries were asked to be voted—for instance, the Speaker’s, Chairman of Committees, and Clerk of Parliament, all of which were to bo increased. That was only one of the many examples on the estimates as brought down. Then again, the Chairman of the Public Petitions Committee, Native and Waste Lands Committees, each received £IOO. He would move that these sums be struck off. The colony could not afford these salaries. He knew he was treading upon delicate ground, but these things were spoken of outside, and ho was determined it should be mentioned inside. Then there was £250 for a Sergeant-at-Arms. Supposing that they really did require such a person they would get a much better mau than they had for a fifth of the sum. Supposing the Speaker were to order him to he taken into custody, why the present Sergeant would not be able; instead of taking him into custody he would simply run away with| the Sergeant, He next objected to “ Hansard,” £6OOO, as a most expensive and at the same time unnecessary luxury, Ha did not agree with the proposal not to borrow any more. What ho wanted to see was that borrowed money should be judiciously expended. He was now of opinion that they had never had anyone in the colony like Sir Julius Vogel. It was said that his was a had scheme, but he was never allowed to carry out his scheme that the districts should be made to pay for railways. He had known of land purchased at £52 per acre. It was the railways which had created that value, and should such land not he made to bear the fair share of the cost of these railways ? Sir J. Vogel foresaw these enhanced values, and he very properly proposed that it should he made to bear the cost. That was his proposal, but he was never allowed to carry it out. He thought they ought still to borrow and expend judiciously. He was much pleased with the Ashburton district railway scheme, where the residents proposed to tax themselves to the extent either of 8d or lOd per acre. Then, again, they had been told that they had a number of telegraph offices which did not pay their cost. He would not have one cf these; if the districts wanted these offices ho would insist upon a guarantee being given by the district that it would pay. Were a scheme like that adopted he believed that they would be able to pull through without the heavy taxation proposed. Reverting to the estimates be was surprised at the disparity between the salaries paid to the Resident Magistrates’ clerks. Christchurch and Wellington, for instance, had £3OO, and such places as Queenstown, Mount Ida, Clyde, &0,, were paid £350. The thing was astonishing, and he was sure that the Minister for Justice would see to it. He did not want to raise salaries; he wanted Government to equalise them. The thanks of the House were due to the Civil Service Commission for having exposed the rotten state of things existing round them. Referring to the proposal to withdraw the subsidies, he said ho felt sorry for that proposal. It was a compact entered into with the local bodies, and he would soy that they ought to stand by it. If they were not faithful to their own, so to speak, family compacts, they could not expect that they would stand well in the estimation of the outside world. What they had to face was taxation, but before they could face taxation they would be bound to reduce their expenditure.

Mr AiWBiaHT said ho had some experience of what was known as the great Liberal party, and ho concluded that the followers of this Government were in reality the only true Liberals. The last Government had been very liberal in swamping the colony with immigrants, hence this cry about want of employment. Last session he had voted against the property tax. The party with whom he was then associated misled him by telling him that the deficiency in colonial finance was not what it was represented to be. He found, however, that it was even greater than it had been represented. Ho did not like the property tax, but in the circumstances it was the fairest that could bo got. The reason for it was greatly duo to the maladministration of the previous Government. Ho hoped that the Government would see its way to give local bodies their subsidies until the time that had been arranged at the outset. The sympathies of the country ought to be with the Government. When the tax became to be properly understood by the ratepayers he believed it would recommend itself to the country. The Hon. Q. McLean ridiculed the idea of a no-coniidenco debate going on, with no fewer that fifteen pairs stuck to it. That showed how little interest was taken in the matter. He had hoped that they would all join in tho endeavor to set matters right, but that was not tho case. Those gentlemen on the other side were too fond of place and pay to admit of them doing anything of tho kind. Last session the lobbies of the House Vere perfectly thronged by hangers-on of the late Government. If they looked at the lobbies now they would see a different state of things. It would have paid the colony to have given the members of tho lato Government £2,000,000 and send them away altogether out of tho place. He charged the member for Wanganui with disloyalty to the party whom he was indebted to for first getting him into political place. H® also accused him of having written articles in his paper calculated to inflame the Native mind. He quoted from the loan agents’ correspondence to show that the lato Government had brought the colony to the very brink of a financial crisis, and added that despite that fact they now brought forward a no-oonfldenoe motion in order that they might got back into the administration. They had made the poor man a stalking horse in their cry against the property tax. The member for Olivo had been honest enough to put matters right on that score. He showed that it was not a tax that affected tho poor man, but one that

solely affected the wealthy. The only objection he had to the tax was that the £SOO exemption should not be done away with, in order that everyone might pay according to his means. He contended that the property tax was very much less inquisitorial than an income tax would be. He defended the exemption of shipping, although he had nothing to do with it being made. He denied that the Customs taxation pressed heavily on the poorer classes. He was not going to be frightened out of the colony, but he would pay what taxes might be necessary and stick to the colony, and so would others, he was sure. Only the special circumstances of the colony would make him support the beer tax. It was utterly impracticable to reduce the estimates by anything like £200,000. The real way to save was to alter the system and assimilate it to a mercantile one. This could onlyjbe done during the recess. The volunteer expenditure must bo reduced. Had the counties been carried out as it was proposed under abolition, they would have been thriving, and ho questioned if there would have been any need for a property tax. Regarding the comments made upon the Native Land Bill, it had been said that it would hang up settlement. If it did, it would at least have the good effect of freeing the Government from these lands ; it would bring the Natives to sell their land, and there would be a percentage out of it for road making. The House adjourned at 12.30.