GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Globe, Volume XXII, Issue 1971, 18 June 1880, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. TnrrusDAY, June 17. In the Legislative Council, after the minor and routine business had been disposed of, The Hon. N. Wilson moved —“ That it is the duty of the Government to purge the Commission of the Peace of all insolvents and other unsuitable people.” A discussion ensued, in which several members blamed all the Governments for not purging the Commission, through fear of unpopularity, and also said that men of honor and character would not sit or accept the Commission on account of the bad state of the roll. The Hon. Colonel Bbett said that a man was on the roll who had been convicted of sly-grog selling in Hawke’s Bay, The Hon. E. Whitaker said that the rule to compel all insolvents to resign in future would bo adhered to. The motion was eventually carried. The Hon. Mr Scotland moved—“ That for the credit of the colony, and the advantage of both races, it is expedient that steps bo taken to satisfy all recognised Native claims to any portions of the confiscated land on the West Coast, in accordance with the advice offered the Governor by the Royal Commission.” He said that the people of Taranaki kept up the Maori scare, and made the most of it to get Government money to live on, instead of raising exports. The Hon. E. Whitaker moved the previous question, and said that it would bo injudicious to discuss the matter then. Sir E. Bell bore witness to the assistance given the Commission by the settlers on the West Coast.

The previous question was carried. The Moorhouse Services Recognition Bill was read a first time.

The Gaming Bill was re-committed, and an amendment made that on being applied to for permits for totalisators and art unions the Colonial Secretary should refer to the local R.M. before deciding. The Land Transfer Act Amendment Bill passed through Committee. The Council rose at 4 40 p.m.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Thubsday, June 17. The House met at 2 30 p.m. HEW BIIiIi. Mr McDonald gave notice that he would ask leave to introduce a Native Law Suits Bill,

PETITION. Captain Rushkll presented a petition from 145 persons, members of working men’s clnbs, pointing out the hardships imposed on these institutions by the proposed Licensing Bill. leave op absence. Mr Ltinbon moved that further leave of absence be granted for a week to Mr Sheehan. Sir W. Fox said that they were told the other night that certain business could not be gone on with in the absence of Mr Sheehan. He thought it was wrong that the convenience of the House should be sacrificed to that of an individual member. Mr Lunbon said that Mr Sheehan would in all probability arrive on Tuesday. The application was granted. QUESTIONS. Replying to M'tjor Te Wheoro, The Hon. J. Bbyce said that in June Inst the Government had received an application from the Native residents of Kohekohe, Waikato, about bringing into operation the Native Licensing Act, 1878, in that district. The petition, however, was informal, as that it did not comply with the third section of the Act. The Government was in favor of bringing the Act into force, but they had to be guided by the law on the subject. Replying to the Hon. B. Richardson, The Hon, W. Rollbston said that, according to the prison regulations, prisoners in Lyttelton Gaol awaiting trial wore dressed in a garb different from that of the other prisoners. It was done as a convenience for carrying out the prison regulations, but it was not compulsory. He was afraid that the noncompulsory feature of the regulation had not been made sufficiently known. He would take care that it was properly understood by prisoners in future. A prison library was provided, and prisoners before trial were allowed to change books once a day, and after trial weekly. The library contained 1000 volumes. Replying to Mr Hamlin, The Hon. W. Rollbston said it would take £BOOO per annum to adopt the recommendation of the Commission on Education for conferring on the North Island a system of University education of the same standard us at present engaged in by Otago and Canterbury, besides a sum of £25,000 for buildings. They could not do this in the present financial state of the colony. Replying to Mr Stevens, The Hon. J. Hall said that it would have cost the colony last year £59,000 gross for the conveyance of the mails via Suez if the San Francisco contract had not been in force, or £21,000 net. The San Francisco service cost £7OOO not. Replying to Sir Q. Grey, The Hon. B. Oliteb said that Government recognised that the request of the Thames Borough Council, to hand over to that body the property known as the Grahamstown and Tararua Tramway inaccordanoo with arrangements to that effect entered into by a late superintendent of the province of Auckland, Mr John Williamson, with the members of the Borough Council, ought to be carried ont. Legislation would be necessary for that purpose, and steps would bo taken this session in that direction. Replying to the Hon. W. Gisborne, 1 The Hon, Major ATKINSON said that the

Government, had tinder consideration, and he hoped this session to be able to introduce, a Bill that would deal with the whole question of the more effective audit of the accounts of local bodies.

Mr Babbon asked what steps the Government have taken to punish the person who improperly obtained from the Treasury £IOOO Ay .means of a fraudulent youoher purporting to be signed by three Natives interested in land at Waimate, for the purchase of which the Government was negotiating, such Natives having no interest in the land as alleged, and not having received any of the money, as proved by the hon. Native Minister, and reported by that hon. gentleman to the House on the 15th inst., and whether such person is still in tho service of the Government.

The Hon. J. Bbyob replied, that the party referred to was still in the Government service, and no steps had been taken for his punishment. The proof of the act was not before him until about eight days before the session commenced, and ho did not think he would have heard of the transaction at all but for tho labors of tho West Coast Commission. Tho matter was now under the consideration of the Government. Replying to Mr McOanghan,

The Hon. J. Ham said that during the present week he expected that the report of tho Civil Service Commission would be laid before the House.

Replying to Mr Barron, The Hon. J.BETOE>aid that he would furnish a statement of the amounts charged against Patea, and the dates of the vouchers for each item as referred to by him in this House on the 15th inst.

Replying to Mr J. T. Fisher, The Hon. J. Ham said that in tho present state of the finances tho Government did not see its way to cause the telegraph system to bo extended from Christchurch to Sumner, for which purpose £750 was placed on the public appropriation last session. Mr Geobge asked when the system of obtaining blank vouchers from Natives who were presumed to have interests in lands for sale was first practised by the Government officials, and if they had authority from the Government of the day for so doing. Tho Hon. J. Beycb replied that the first time he heard of the system was about Christmas last. Previous to that he had no conception that such a state of things existed. Replying to Mr Hirst,

The Hon. W. Eoiukston said that ho had not been able to get information relative to the allegation that the Waste Land Board of Otago had leased a run of 6000 acres for the sole purpose of breeding rabbits. He saw that some largo runs lately in the occupation of the Hon. R. Campbell had been leased, but for what purpose be could not say. The lawon the subject of the rabbit nuisance would, however, be rigidly enforced. Replying to Mr Seddon, The Hon. Major Atkinson said that in counties where Road Boards had been merged they would be empowered to levy a rate up to 10 per cent, on the annual value. Sir W. Rox alluded to the great pressure of work in the printing office, and stated that the West Coast Commission’s report had been delayed. If that pressure could be relieved the report of the Commission would be before them in a day or two. The Hon. J. Ball ronlied that he would look into the matter and see what could bo done to meet the exigencies of the case. EOAD BOAED3. Mr Sutton moved—“ That in order to assure the moat effective system of local Government at the least cost of management, it is desirable that the relative positions of counties and Road Boards should be put upon a more satisfactory footing : —(1.) That the Counties Act be amended and all Road Board or Highway Provincial Acts repealed and highway districts abolished ; (2) that each county shall be subdivided into ridings, and each riding reconstituted into a Road Board ; (3) that the Road Board shall be the only rating body and that its duties shall bo the construction and repair of all roads and drains within its borders, the construction of

all small bridges and all other works of a local nature ; (4) that the County Council shall consist of the chairmen of each Road Board by virtue of his position 5 (5) that the revenue of the county shall be the rents, licenses, fees, &c., at present payable and a right to levy pro rata upon all Road Boards for such further amounts as may be required ; (6) that the duties of the Council shall be the construction of large bridges, assisting Road Boards by providing engineering assistance when required, to provide for the local contribution to hospitals and charitable institutions, with power to alter the boundaries of ridings and exercise a general supervision over the Road Boards ; (7) that the Government bo requested to bring in a Bill during the session to give effect to those resolutions.” The Hon, J. Hall recognised the importance of the subject. The Government had the subject under consideration, and had a Bill in type on the subject of those Boards. He was afraid that he would not bo able to make a definite suggestion on the point this session. He did not think it would work well to confine these local roads to Road Boards. Ho did not think it would be wise to abolish Road Boards altogether as had been suggested by some speakers. Ponding the discussion on the alteration in the local finance question, it would be unwise to press the matter further, as the whole question would have an opportunity for being discussed when that part of the matt r was brought on. Captain Russell disagreed with the proposal to make the Road Boards the only rating bodies. Each of the bodies should have power to strike its own rate, but only one valuation should be made. Instead of advertising as at present for valuators, the work should bo entrusted to responsible persons at high rates of salary. This was the most important part of the work devolving on these bodies, and he was afraid its importance was not always recognised. The question that the debate be adjourned for a week was then put and carried, BBTUBN. On the motion of Mr Hamlin, it was agreed that a return be laid on the table of the House showing how the sum of £50,000 voted last session for roads and works in the North Island has been expended, such return to namp each county and Road Board to which the money has been paid. SETTLEMENT OF THE LAND. The adjourned debate on the question that a Select Committee be appointed to consider the best means of encouraging the settlement of the industrial classes upon the waste lands of the colony, and further what help and encouragement may bo properly extended by the Government to those who are desirous of taking up small sections of land, wos resumed by Mr Andrews, who spoke at conaiderable length. The Hon. W. Eolleston said that the most unfair accusations had been made against him by the member for Wanganui. The fact was that since he (Mr Eolleston) had come into office 174,000 acres of land had been brought under operation of the deferred payment system. The Vesey-Stowart transaction had been arranged by the Government of which Mr Ballance was a member, and yet Mr Ballance had stated that he (Mr Eolleston) was favoring Mr Stewart at the expense of the working men of the colony. The engagement having been initiated by his Government, it was most unfair to impute improper motives to him in carrying out that engagement. The facts were that he had little or no conversation with Mr Stewart, but he considered that the engagement entered into with that gentleman was to the advantage of the colony. He denied that he had over been guilty of evasion in any negotiation opened up by the Wanganui Working Men’s Club. It was impossible for him tc deal with a body who had no corporate existence. They asked for concessions it was impossible for the Government tc comply with. The Government had given facilities to these parties, both by steamboat and by rail, to take up land. Then, as regards the Wellington Association, he hac given them the best advice ho could towards getting the land, and getting it under bottei conditions than those provided by the specie' settlement clauses. They were advised that these offers were more advantageous, anc many of them had taken advantage of thess offers. The Wanganui Association applies: for a block of 2000 aoree which was not ir the hands of the Government at all. Ths correspondence on the subject would be laic on the table. That body was also told tha! the Government could not deal with it until i became an associated body. The hon. gentle man’s speech throughout had been a galleri oration directed to the galleries for a par ticular purpose outside the question of settle ment altogether. The debate was interrupted by the 5.31 adjournment.

EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30. WAN! or OOHYIDBNCB,

The Hon. J. Hall moved —“That all Orders of the day be postponed, so as to enable Sir George Grey to move the second reading of the Property Assessment and Property Tax Acts Repeal Act.” The Bill was of such a nature as not to justify the Government in pursuing their course. The motion was carried on the voices. Sir Ghobgb Gbby then moved—“ That the Bill be discharged, the Government having taken this as a vote of want of confidence.” He proposed to move such a vote on a much broader basis. He would ask for leave to move instead—“ That tho financial proposals of the Government are not as a whole adopted to promote the welfare of New Zealand.” The Hon. J. Ham, said that tho House had reason to complain of the course adopted. They had oomo there to discuss this Bill, which affected tho welfare of tho country, and without any explanation whatever the member in whoso name it stood proposed to withdraw it. He felt bound to oppose the motion for its discharge. Sir G. Gbbt asked that the Government would consent to accept the no-oonfidenoe motion, and allow it to be discussed to morrow.

The Hon. G. McLean said that tho financial proposals could be discussed to-morrow without pursuing the course proposed, As a precedent, he thought it would be wrong to agree to allow Sir George Grey to bring forward tho motion.

Mr Macahdbew failed to see anything so very outrageous in the course proposed to be followed.

The Hon. J. Hail Bai l that if they would go to a division on the Bill and get it disposed of he would then be prepared to go into committee of supply in order that the no confidence motion might bo brought on with as little delay as possible. Sir Qboiigu! Qiiky said he had no objection that the vote should bo taken on the motion for discharge, provided that the Government would at once go into Committee of Supply on the no confidence motion. After some further discussion, Sir G. Gbby, without remark, moved the second reading of the Bill. Mr G. Bebtham moved that it bo read that day six months. Mr Sbddon argued in favor of a division being taken on the Bill. A division was called on the motion that the Bill be read a second time. Ayes, 29 ; noes, 41. The following is the division list: — Ates. Messrs Andrews Messrs Montgomery Ballancc Moss Barron Fyke Brown (teller) Seddon Be Lantour Shephard Fisher, J. B. Shrimski George Speight Gisborne Stewart (teller) Tainui Sir G. Grey Tawhal Messrs Hamlin Te Wheoro Harris Thomson Hntchison Tole London Tamoana Maoandrew Wallis Noes. Messrs Allwright Messrs McCanghan Atkinson McDonald Bain McLean Beetham Moorhouse (teller) Murray Brandon Oliver Bryce Ormond Colbeck Richardson Hick Eolleston Sir W. Fox Russell Messrs Fulton (taller) Saunders Gibbs Seymour Hall Shanks Hirst, H. Stevens Hurst, N. J. Studholmo Hursthouao Sutton Johnston I Swanson Kelly Trimble Kenny W akefield I avion Whitaker Mason Wood The motion for that day six months was

then put and carried. The Hon. Major Atkinsok moved —" That the House go into Committee of Supply.” Sir G. Gbht moved aa an amendment — “ That the financial proposals of the Government as a whole are not adapted to promote the welfare of Hew Zealand.” Hia position was one of extraordinary difficulty. The Government had just shown its strength, and hia task was almost hopeless. The wealth of the country was arrayed against him, but beyond the walls of the House a vast majority were in favor of the proposal he made. He knew that the event of this night would be historical, as in other lands there were people watching their proceedings. The cause in which he was engaged was a great cause. The holders of land were determined to oppress the mass of the population. The Premier of this country was, to his mind, a vampire sucking the blood of his victims while fanning them to rest with his wings. When, in the face of those deluded people at Leeaton, he said that the taxes would not fall on them, but would only fall on those who were possessed of £SOO, they believed him, but, like the belief placed in the juggler, they were deluded. Poor souls, they would find when too late their mistake. Members knew that this tax fell upon the consumers. Take a ' wool store. The wool is first taxed ort the sheep’s back, and it is then taxed in the hands of the merchant, and consequently it is double taxed when it goes into the hands of the manufacturer. Then again the machinery of the manufacturer was tax"* and lastly, when they went to the retail dealer they were again taxed. Then the f oor deluded bumpkins of Leeston would buy them, and would find out how much they nad been deluded. Many persons now went about in the garb of colonial treasurers, &0,, who did not understand the tax. To these men the whole thing was a joke, but he could tell them it would be no joke to the community at large. It was a tax that would fall on the inan who invested his own capital in the colony, but the man who did not invest his own money, but some one’s else beyond the colony, would escape. That was overweight- ■’ ing the people altogether. It was a tax that had never before been introduced into any of the British colonies. Bettor a tax paid on the necessaries of life than this tax. In that case the duty thus paid would not bear cumulative interest. The tax was unequal; it was a premium for dishonesty ; in every single element it was wanting in what a good tax should be. Ho would ask whence the necessity for the tax. The Treasurer told them it was necessary on account of the repeal of the land tax and the deficiency in the treasury. Whence came that deficiency ? He attributed this depression to the want of foresight in the days of their prosperity. If they had years ago done what they were now doing, reduce their own salaries, impose a beer tax, reduce the civil service, &0., had they taken the warnings in time, the difficulties in which they were now placed would not have arisen. Then the Treasurer spread abroad reports prejudicial to the colony. More than the truth was told, and the credit of the colony was destroyed purely for party purposes. He then reviewed the financial proposals in detail. The subsidies were to be swept away, and the Government proposed in lieu thereof that a law should be passed enabling local bodies to tax Native and waste lands, and to put their hands into their pockets and tax themselves to the extent of 2s per £. Then again it was proposed to restrict their borrowing powers. They were not the same way in other colonies. Then again it was proposed to rate Europeans for the purpose of paying the rates for the Natives. Why this cruelty, which was only calculated to sow discord between the two races ? He said let it be understood that the Native lands receiving benefits from taxation shall bo fairly rated, and the Native would cheerfully pay it. He sympathised with people in the South called upon to provide for such an unfair tax. He could not understand the proposal to tax the Crown lands. Why not pay the direct subsidy instead of resorting to this roundabout method ? _ Then again a Works Board was to be constituted, with a certain number of paid officials. Why establish another great department ? Ho saw no reason for interfering with their local bodies. He ridiculed the idea of the local bodies being placed in leading strings, as was proposed to bo done by the establishment of this Central Board. In the arrangement for district Boards they had another extraordinary provision. It was designed to promote a perfect scramble by their local bodies. So nonsensical a scheme never before entered the heads of any sane body of men. He next reviewed the charitable aid proposals. A pauper aystern was to be established throughout the colony. A poor law was unnecessary in Now Zealand, and it would tend to ruin the population. It was calculated to lower the character of the population. He contrasted the s’ate of matters in this respect in Franco and England, the former being a charitable

system in the true sense of the word, while the other was a pauper system. The reason of this difference was that Franca had not loss than 5,500,000 landholders, whereas the other was held by a few persons. He went on to denounce the Government on the impropriety of allowing Chinese immigration at a time when the labor market was literally glutted. Unless these and other abuses to which New Zealand was subjected were at once checked, things would go from bad to worse, and the burden would be rendered utterly unbearable. Before imposing a tax of this kind, the voice of the country ought to have been heard. He challenged them to go to the country, stating that if they did so the Government would be forsaken by all. The time would come when they must of necessity lament in bitterness and woe what they had done. He could imagine them crying out in bitterness, saying “ woe is me that ever I gridironed ; that ever I wos instrumental in destroying the prospects of this fair land,” Let them bring down amended financial pro-, posals; let them do away with the AgentGeneral’s department, the Legislative Council, the Governor’s salary, and not attack the Civil Service alone. Let them do these things and they would yet gain the confidence and respect of the land. But no, they would not do that. Then ho would tell them that there were a few in their midst who would never cease in their efforts to secure their objects, no matter what abuse might bo heaped on them. No matter what adverse newspaper criticism was hurled at them, still they would fight, the good, the noble fight. Everything he had seen convinced him that they were not intending to do justice to the people at large. When the appeal came to be made to the people they were determined to get such a Parliament returned as would respect the true rights of the people. The Hon. J. Hall characterised the speech of the previous speaker aa weak and transparently in error. They had not had a single word about what tho speech professed to deal with, viz., the finances of the colony. They had been told that the events of the night would bo historical. They had heard that before. If they became historical this would not be a bright page for the bon. member. Tho speech commenced with a studied insult to the majority in that House. It was lamentable to see an elderly gentleman, who had arrived at a time of life when his passions were cooled, come down and use the language he had done simply because the House would not consent to satisfy his lust for power or office. He had been denounced as a vampire and a juggler. That did not hurt him, but ho objected to tho abuse heaped on his constituents, whom he had called a deluded people and country bumpkins. He would only retort by saying that the Thames constituency were a very worthy people, but they had a very happy knack of coming to that House for rather more than their fair share of the public expenditure. That was more than could be said of tho much maligned Leeston constituency. They had very little of the public expenditure, and very little was heard of them in that House. They had had a labored explanation of the operations of this tax. Now he would like to know what difference it made whether the money was taken in the name of a property or an income tax. They were challenged to go to the country now. He would ask did the hon. member think that they have no memory at all. Within the last nine months they had been to the country, and the property tax was discussed as against the land tax. Then, again, about the reduction of Ministers’ salaries. Did tho hon. gentleman when he was in office reduce his own salary ? He believed it would be found that the hon. member had drawn from the public funds more than he (the Premier) did. If that did not satisfy the country of the utter insincerity of the hon. member nothing would do so. They had been challenged to reduce the Civil Service, but what had the hon. member done when he was in office ? Why he had increased that service, and otherwise augmented the burden he now complains of. What they profess to do in tho matter of taxing the Native ’ends was to pave the way towards teaching the Native mind that their property "oust eventually bear its fair share of the responsibility of the the State. On former occasions the Government had been charged with living upon bribes, and now that they delegated tho control of loca’ .fairs to a board outside the Government, and altogether free of Government influence, his complaints were equally bitter. It was not true that they had taken off tho l«wi tax as asserted. The fact was that they cad doubled the land tax. They were charged with having spent large sums of money to oenetit large landed estates. What did the hjn member do when he was in office. Ho bovowed all he could, and when he coni d borrow no more he actually spent mono’' before it was borrowed. They were told ths< ney should have stopped immigration. 1 Th« .act was that when they got into office they found engagements for the despatch of i»i> igrants months deep, and they sent home bv .elogram, within a week after getting into .>'«co, to send no more immigrants. Then again, the hon. member sent home for 6000 pauper immigrants. That showed the reckless state of things they had to face when they came into office. He had been twitted with not having gone to Dunedin and Invercargill and addressed large audiences. He had only followed precedent when he did as he had done in getting his address circulated throughout the colony. The simple question was, should they go out of office and the hon. gentleman go in. What had the hon. gentleman done when he was in office ? Ho was to emancipate the 60,000 serfs and do ever so many things; they were to get electoral reform, a liberal land law, and yet nothing at all had come out of all those specious promises. That was the use they had made of their lease of political power, and they were now asked to renew that lease. Tho present Government had saved the country from the brink of political ruin into which they had plunged the country. Mr Geobge announced his intention of voting against the Government, as he thought that their proposals were utterly unsatisfactory, and that their savings were entirely delusive and not real.

Mr Mobb moved the adjournment of the debate, stating that the Opposition was not in a position to conduct the debate as it should be.

The Hon. J. Ham accepted the proposal for adjournment, and suggested that the House should sit on Saturday and Monday to finish the debate. The House rose at 12.10.