GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Globe, Volume XXI, Issue 1755, 4 October 1879, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Fbiday, Ooiobbb 3. After the formal business, Colonel Whitmobb, in reply to Mr Mantell, said copies of the book on New Zealand, prepared for the Sydney Exhibition, whioh was a most useful work, should be presented to members of the Assembly. Mr ChambbblAin asked if the Government would introduce any measure to encourage local industries, and said protection waß necessary for the good of the country, but was ruled out of order for introducing debateable matter in asking a question. Colonel Whitmobb eaid the Government intended to refer the whole subject to a select committee.

Mr Holmes moved for a return of the work of the Public Trust Office. He said interest was felt in the question through the failure of the Glasgow Bank. Had there been a public trustee in England, tho ruin caused by that failure would not have occurred. Mr Watebhovsb denied the last statement and said, if there had been a public trustee in Great Britain, the Government would not have been answerable for the Glasgow Bank deficiency. The motion was carried.

Mr Wilson's Bill, to amend the law as to deceased intestates' estates, was read a first time. The second reading was ordered for Tuesday. On the motion of Mr Fbasbb, a Native affairs committee of eight members was appointed by ballot. Colonel Whitmobb said as the Council was evidently disinclined for general business, pending a settlement in the Lower House, he would move the postponement of the order of the day for the second reading of the Habitual Drunkards Bill till Tuesday.

This was carried, and the Council adjourned at 4 p.m.

HOUSE OF BEPBESENTATITEB. Fbiday, Ogxobbb 3. The House met at 2 30. MIS OELLANBOtTS. Several petitions were presented and notices of motion given. Mr Bbyob brought up the report on the petition of Henry Alley Mr Bkown asked the Postmaster-General, without notice, whether the Luna had the San Francisco mail on board when she left for the South on the 31st of August, 1872, as stated by Mr Hall ? Mr Hah. stated that he did not say 31st August, 1872. Mr Bsown asked leave to omit the date mentioned, but was requested by the Speaker to give notice of the question if he wished to press it. Mr John London, member for Mongonui and Bay of Islands, took the oath and his seat.

Mr Whyxb asked the Government whether they are aware that the navigation of the Thames Biver had been stopped by the Natives, and, if so, what steps they intend to take, if any, to keep that important highway of communication open. The Pbbmibb said the Native Minister would answer the question when be made bis statement. Mr Hutchison asked the Government whether it is their intention, in connection with their proposed land legislation, to introduce a measure of reform in the Waste Lands Boards of the colony, and, if so, will the Minister of Lands indicate the direction in whioh such reform will shape itself. Mr Thomson said the matter was under consideration, and he hoped to state his views on tho second reading of the Lands Bill. The Pbbmibb, in reply to Mr Hutchison, said it was difficult to call for tenders for the repairs of Government steamers, as for other publio works and repairs, but he agreed with the questioner, and would see that it was done in all possible cases. Mr Stevens asked if it was true that a number of men have been dismissed from employment on the ballaßt trains on the Canterbury section of New Zealand railways, and that prison labor has since been employed on that duty. The Public Wobjes Ministbb said he had received a communication from Canterbury to the effect that these men had not been employed on the ballast train, but he would make further inquiry. The Colonial Tbeasubbb, in reply, _to Mr McLean, said that a statement shewing the receipts from Customs revenue for the quarter ended 30th September ; also receipts from land revenue for the same period, had been prepared, and would be laid on the table at ones.

The Ministbb or Lands, in reply to Mr Bain, said the report of Mr Pearson, Crown Lands Commissioner, Southland, was a full copy of the original report, but a report re the success of the deferred payment system had been sent in, which would be laid on the table.

The Ministbb op Wobks, in reply to Mr Swanson, said clause 23 in the conditions of Government contracts would be enforced, causing workmen to be paid fortnightly, and he would enforce payment of a penalty of £SO for breach of the clause.

The Pbbmibb, in reply to Mr Bowen, said a return would be furnished to the House of all persons appointed since the prorogation of the late Parliament to any paid offica or position of emolument under Government, stating in each case the nature of the office, whether temporary or permanent, and the emolument attached.

The Pbkmieb, in reply to Mr Murray, said Sir J. Vogel did not apply for leave to stand for the representation of an English constituency in the House of Commons, but Government had heard of such intention, and telegraphed that it was not desirable he should do so.

Mr Whitaxbb asked the Minister of Lands what steps have been taken to open up the suburban allotments in the vioinity of the township of Ngaruawahia, and what length of time will probably elapse before suoh steps may be ezpeoted to produce the desired result.

Mr Thomson replied that the matter had been referred to the Native Department to ascertain what blocks were promised to Natives before opening up the lands for salo. The Ministbb op Justioh, in reply to Mr Seddon, said that it was not the intention of the Government to open a warden's office and appoint a "Warden for Wairarapa district until they had some evidence of the payable nature of the land, and took steps to acquire it.

The Minißtkb fob Public "Wobzs, in reply to Mr Andrews, laid on the table regulations under whioh employes on the railway wero empioyed, showing hours, rates of pay, overtime, etc.

The Pbbjiieb, in reply to Mr Hutchison, as to whether tho Government intend to introduco a further reform in the jury laws, more especially by the abolition of the grand jury system, improvement of the coroner's inquest by jury, and increase of payment to common jurors, said the whole of the points were under consideration, and a measure would be brought in to remedy the evils. Leavo was given to introduce the following Bills: —Mr Hutchison, Bill for the Abolition of Imprisonment for Debt; Mr Gisborne, Debtors and Creditors Act, 1876, Amendment Bill. addbbss in beply. The adjourned debate on the address in reply and no confidence amendment was called on. Mr Bowbn, who moved the adjournment on the previous evening, spoke at length in dofenca of bis party and Canterbury interests,

and reviewed the arguments of the Government supporters. He said the accusations against Canterbury settlers were entirely without foundation, and made in ignorance. He contended that there could be no party lines in a new country. Ho did not consider that the Promier understood constitutional Government, because when accused of doing something unconstitutional, ho threatened to do it again. Whilst many were raving about Liberalism, thoyallowed the Government to perform acts which were anything but liberal. The reforms proposed by the Government in the electoral laws were really only a consolidation of laws already brought in, and however much they might simplify the rolls, they would not add many to their numbers, because all lodgers, ratepayers, and others were now on. The residential clause would give every facility, no doubt, for registration, and they were all in favor of it; but it was nothing new. He was opposed to the Triennial Parliaments Bill, and had received the assent of his constituents to that opposition. He was in favor of quinquennial Parliaments, and did not approve of Parliament expiring by effluxion of time, because it might occur at a very inopportune period. He said that he had given up his denominationaliem because he found it did not educate the children, and he should always oppose any antagonism to the present system of national education. He would like to see some Bills danglod before the House carted away out of their eight, that they might get*to|tho simplification of finance and prosecution of public works, instead of being told that they had no time to attend to these things. On the subject of taxation, he failed to see any particular Liberalism introduced by tho Government. It was not Liberal to tax certain properly and leave others untaxed. The Aot provided for a host of law-suits which would swallow up all that was obtained from it. Tho Premier had said every man should pay according to his holding, and not allow a different tax to be put on the poor man's land and on that of the rich. But that was all cast to the winds. He (Mr Bowen) maintained that only fair and equitable taxation would be satisfactory. They all hoped to come to a deoieion on this question very speedily, and he would not detain the House. He hoped that Liberalism, in its true eenso, would be advocated, and not be narrowed down to the principles they had heard from the Premier. Tainui said ho considered Sir W. Fox was the proper person to lead the Opposition, and they only had his spirit there that session. He asked that any laws for the Maoris might have the effect of placing them on the same footing as Europeans, as at present he had seen nothing brought forward with that object. He would trust Sir G. Grey to bring down these laws. The debate was reduced to one side striving against the other, and it was hard to say which would win. The Natives of the Middle Island had Been nothing done for their benefit, but had hope of something being done to benefit the land, which was all they had left now. They hoped to see such measures brought down as would enable them to live peaceably together. Mohi Tawhai said he saw no good in this, one-side fighting against our side. Much harm was done outside the House by these useless contentions, and it was very unprofitable. The Northern part of these islands had not been benefited by anything brought forward yet. He heard Mr Saunders objecting to the dual vote, but he asked what harm was there in giving the Maoris two votes ? The Maoris inherited land from their ancestors, and had allowed their lands to be brought under operation of the Act. Mr Delatour had said it was Sir W. Fox who first advocated that Maoris' names should not be placed on the roll. The Oppjeition said Sir G. Grey was a .bad man. If that was so, then he would only say all men were bad. Mr Hall and his friends" were in the Government which caused war in tho North Island, and could not claim support. All the evils in New Zealand had sprung from the European laws. The survey system was greatly to blame, and Sir G. Grey was not the cause of the evil in the land. Those who attempted to prevent him getting his name on the electoral roll were not his friends. He was sent there to support Sir G. Grey, and should act as a chief by carrying out what ho came for.

Tomoana wished to inform the House what his feelings were, and how he intended to vote. He came here about the Maori grievances, not to support those against them, but those working for their good. He wished to say he was glad the last speaker had told them Sir G. Grey had done no evil in the country. He had read that the first to do evil were Adam and Eve. He might say that Sir G. G-rey was the first who made laws. Ngapuhi, where his colleague camo from, was the greatest tribe, and who caused their downfall ? Who took Waikato ? When a new Governor was sent for there appeared Sir G-. G-rey. The Maori had long cried out against European laws, and Sir George Grey's Government did well for them, but at this time thore was no one promise affecting the people of the Island which had been fulfilled. Ho did not think the Native Minister had administered affairs properly, nor the Premier, and although he was not against them personally, he did not think they had done all that should have been done by them. If he got into the Government heshould stop all Lands Courts, and allow the Natives themselves to investigate land: matters. He was sorry for the Ministry. Has. love was with them personally, but he could not support them. All laws in the past had been drawn up by lawyers, and Maoris oould not understand them. The land generally went to the tribes best able to pay for the jpourts. He had heard nothing about the leader of the Opposition in connection with Maori affairs,, but as he was a new man, he would give him his support. The wish came from himself, but he had been spoken to by the leader of the Opposition on the subject). He- said to him—" If your side gets in,, will you have a. Native Minister ? " and ho. said " Yes." " Will you give him sole charge of NatiTe. affairs ? " and he said "-Yes." He explained that ho was alluding to lands which were already granted when he (Mr Hall) agreed to all his proposals in connection with Native land. He agreed to give him his vote. If the Government remained in office, all he wished. T»as they should frame laws for the good of the Maoris. Mr Shbbhan said he rose with diffidence, because he found he hod to prepare himself in order to reply to the old acousations which had over and over again been preferred against him. He thought they would have been pleased to hear the stand taken by the Maoris. Ho had been told the Opposition leader had interviewed the Maoris, and it appeared to them that they had been offered sufficient to induce them to join the Opposition. The last speaker told them he intended to give his vote to Mr Hall, because he was a new man and would carry out all that he had promised, and if he had asked Mr Hall to make a railway to the moon he believed ha would have consented to consult his colleagues on the subject. He had no doubt the Maoiishadmetan apt schoolmaster. He had been interrogated on a similar subject as to stopping sales of land, and he had replied promptly he would not. But his friend the leader of the Opposition had beaten him in tactii,-s, although he was prepared at the time to go to a great length under similar circumstances. He would only Bay that if the leader of the Opposition dared to fulfil his promises he would he treated with shame and contempt by all right thinking persons. To gain his ends and secure votes he appeared disposed to swallow moro dirt in a week than he (the speaker) would do in a lifetime. He could charge the hon._ gentleman and his friends with preventing the Natives from getting justice. He could not understand why the laßt speaker should have made no reference to the Maori dual vote, because he might have been told that the leader of the Opposition, whom ho was about to follow, was opposed to that vote, and he challenged him to deny it. He referred to the position of parties in the House, and although he said it with some regret, because he missed the gentleman from the House, even Mr Whitaker, one of the oldest members of the House, was boaton on his own choice of ground by the youngest member of the House. The Government had reversed the majority agiinst them by the appeal to the country, and if they had had a fair field they would to-day have a good majority over their opponents when a division was taken. The Government on a want of confidence motion, pure and simple, could not be turned out of office, but some members had been assured of being made Ministers, and this caused them to go over. The hon. member for Bruce, for instance, whatever party was in power, insisted upon delivering a finanoial statement, from whioh he inferred that he expeoted to be made Treasurer of the new Ministry. He (Mr Sheehan) was sorry to see Colonel Trimble in suoh bad company. He admired his speech, beoauie he confined himself to facts within his own knowledge, and did BOt follow tie example of ath.erg w&

launch out into abuse of his (Mr Sheehan's) character; but his facta were fallacious, and ho had been misinformed on many points, as he would show him on another occasion. Some persons said they would support the Government, but they could not stand Sir G. Grey. But not one of them could give a good and valid reason for his attempt to OBtracise the leader of the Government, who had always acted fairly and honestly, although he had proved a hard hitter in many instancies. Ho maintained that so long as ho did Mb duty faithfully and satisfactorily, his private affairs had no right to be referred to, and persons who made accusations in the first instance turned and denied them when before their constituents. The Government maintained there was no fear of a Maori war, although that statement when made had excited opposition. What was tho position ? When they came into office, the Maori King was es far from mating poaco then as ever he was, and they wero even told this was tho case now. He would like his hon. friend, the member for Waikato, to refor to that subject, because he could say whethor that was the case or not. When tho outrage in the Thames took place, Kewi took steps to prevent tho escape of the men from their settlements, and then started off to assist him in apprehending them, but met with an accident which prevented his cirrying out his intentions. He charged tho party seeking to obtain possession of the Government benches with Icing the cause of all Nativo distrust by their unfulfilled promises, which really put in the Bhsde all that had been preferred againtt the present Government. The House adjourned at 5 30.

EVENING SITTING, ADDBEBS IN BEPLT. The House resumed at 7 20. Mr Sheehan said he did not intend to lake up the time of tho Houbb so long, but was anxious on leaving office to leave behind 1 him a codo of information. He expected to hear the hon. gentleman at the head of the Opposition admit that his party would be blamed for all Native trouble, and although ho did not blame thegenllcman so much, there could be no doubt that the previous Ministry were to blame. Referring to the Thames shooting affair, ho said that some of the principal chiefs there assisted the Government, although they could not bo expected to take them all by force of arms. They were told that they did not employ Maori chiefs in assisting to - carry on tho government of their own people, but they had done considerable in that way. Referring to Mr Luckie, he said Ministers wore perfectly justified in making such an appointment instead of sending home for a man when a capable one was to bo found in the colony. He said that the work done at' Addington gaol was quite sufficient for all requirements; and as to the Sunnyside Asylum, why, they were told it would take a quarter of a million of money to do what was asked, which was more than they could afford. The gaol was now in much better condition than when they came into -00106. He reminded the Opposition that the Luna had been used for party purposes, and said that if they objected to any unfair advantage in the Government use of the Hinemoa, it was ■ easy enough for gentlemen who talked about subscribing £50,000 to win the elections to have purchased a small steamer if they wanted one, and to have sold her to theUnion Company- afterwards. He said they did not want Liberal measures, but merely puch a combination as would - land them on the Government benohes. They had told the Maoris that they would be made Ministers, as the House had heard that afternoon, and he had heard outside that they, had also promised to give back Waikato, to abolish Land Courts, and give the Maoris entire control of their own affairs, in order to secure their votes.

Mr Halt, denied that there was any truth in the reports referred to. Mr Shbbhjjt continued—He might say*h&. wag quite prepared to bide his time. He was sure they would not leave his honored if riend Sir George Grey, and he could bide- histime, which ho might say would be but a veryv short time. Indeed he did not think there was any member of the Government who would accept office with them. They were all willing to hold aloof and bide their time.. He did not wish to the debate, and was quite ready to eo to a division. l_Cries-of " Divide !: Divide!"] Mr HAiiii said attacks had been made on his charaoter. He would not detain the House in referring to them, but he should take an early opportunity of doing so. Dr. Wauis- spoke at some length in support of the Government. DEFEAT OE THE GOVEKJS-

MBNT. The question was then put that the words proposed as an amendment be added. A division was called for with the following; result:—For the amendment, 43;; against, 41. The following is the division list: AXES. Massra- Adams Messrs Murray,' Atkinson Oliver Bain Ormond Beetiam Pitt Bowen PykeBryce Bichmond D»ck \ Bolleston Driver p Euasell )Falton Saunders Gibbs Seymour Hall Stevens Hirst Stewart Hursthouse Studholiae Johnston Sutton Kelly Tomoana Kenny Trimble Levin Wakefield Mason (teller) Masters Whitaker McCaughan "Whyte McLean (teller) Willis Moorhonse Wright NOES.. Messrs Allwright Messra Macandrew Andrews McDonald (Teller) Montgomery Ballanoe Moss Barron Beeve3 Bunny Beid Colbeck Seddon DeLautour Shanks Finn Sheehan J. T. Fisher Shephard J. B. Fiaher Shrimski George Speight Gisborne Swanson Sir G. Grey Tainui Messr3 Hamlin Tawhai Harris Te Wheoro Hislop Thomson Hurst (Teller) Tole Hutchison Turnbull Ireland Wallis Lundon Wood ADDBEBB 30 THE GOVEBNOB. On the motion of Mr Hail, Major Atkinson, Mr Pitt, Colonel Trimble, and the mover were appointed a committee to bring up an address to his Excellency, which was read and adopted. THE ITJHA. Mr Fibhbb said he wished to reply to Mr Hall's statement re the Luna going to Port Chalmers on 31st August, 1572, with mails. The Bteamer did not go on a political errand, but to carry the outward mails to Manukau. ADJOTJBNMENT. Sir Geoboe Gbey said, the House having affirmed the amendment of want of confidence in the Ministry, he begged to move the adjournment of the House until Tuesday. The House rose at 9 30.