GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Globe, Volume XXI, Issue 1753, 2 October 1879, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVE 3. Wednesday, Octobbb 1. The House met at 2.30. miscellaneous. Messrs Pyka and Hislop took the oath and their seats. A Committee on Standing Orders, and and Joint Committee on Bills were formed, .on the motion of Mr Seymour. Hfi* Pykk gave notice to ask for a return of electors throughout the colony, and of the numbers who voted at the late election. Mr Lbtin gave notice of a Bill for establishing a Harbor Board for the port of Weilington. # Mr Hutchison ga re notion of a Bill for the Abolition of Imprisonment for Debt. Mr Sapndbbs will ask the Government if they intend to introduce a Bribery Bill this .session. _ ~ The Pbemieb, in reply to Mr George, said the Government would take into consideration some method of encouraging the manufacture of wine in New Zealand, and would also submit the matter to a Special Oommission on native industries. Mr Maoandbbw, in reply to Mr Adams, •aid be would cause a report to bo made upon •the cost and best means of improving the entrance to Nelson Harbor by the removal of sunken rooks. Directions had been issued

with that view. Mr Maoandbbw, in reply to Mr Adams, ■aid it was not at present deemed desirable that the administration of public works in Nelson and on the VV est Coast •honld be placed under the direction of the department in Wellington instead of Dunedin, and no steps would bo taken to carry out a resolution of last session to that effect at present. Sir G. Gebt, in reply to Mr Adams, said that libraries in the colony would receive copies of 11 Gazettes,” “Hansard,” statutes, and Parliamentary papers so far as a sum of £3OO would enable them to do so, and that •mn would bo placed on the estimates for this year. The Pebmibb, in reply to Mr Adams, who esked him to promise to introduce a Bill this Cession amending and extending theLioensing Act so far as to equalise the license fee throughout the colony, said the question was sm important one, and in the absence of his

colleague, the member for the Thames, ho must delay an answer. Mr Thomson, in reply to Mr Ormond, said ft return could not he laid before the House, showing the lands sold in To Aroha block (late Broomhall’s), specifying the number of ■eleotions and acreage, and whether on deferred payments or occupied, because the block was not yet opened. It would be sur▼eyed and drained, and prepared for small settlers as soon as possible. In rsply to Mr Ballance. The Pbbmikb promised to lay before the House a comparative return, showing the Imports and exports, foreign and coastwise, of timber and grain for three quarters of the year of the year, 1878 9. Mr Ballance asked the Colonial Treasurer whether there is any objection to lay before the House a letter from the Bank giving notice of the termination of the agreement affecting the public account. The Pbbmier said a paper was laid on the

table embodying the same. In reply to Mr Richmond, The Qotkhjimeni promised to proclaim hares exempt from the schedule of the Protection of Animals Act in the district of Kelson. . . , _ Mr Dick asked the Commissioner of Customs what progress, if any, the Government have made in carrying out their resolution as expressed in the Colonial Treasurer's statement of 19th November, 1877, viz., “to sell one of the steamships now the property of the Government.” The Pbp.mikb said they found it impossible to dispose of the Hinemoa because she was the only vessel able to carry troops, and no adequate price could be got for the Stella, ■which was also very useful in tha lighthouse service, but the matter would bo considered again. In reply to Tainui, The Pbkmibb said that thoßaiapoi Natives Reserves Act, 1877, was in operation. In reply to Mr Hutchison, The Pbeuikb promised to lay on the table a return of lands open for sale in the several Srovincial districts, the acreage of blocks and ascriptions of same, distinguishing deferred payment lands and prices, if the Minister for Lands was able to comply, but would state definitely to-morrow. Mr Hutchison asked if the Government will amend the Ballot Act, dispensing with - tha numbers marked on ballot papers by y returning officer*. The Pbkmibb said a remedy would be considered. It was a difficult matter.

Mr Wakepield asked the Colonial Treasurer whether he is aware that the Land Tax Commissioner is demanding payment of a whole year’s land tax on the Ist of October, though the eighth clause of the Land Tax Act, 1878, provides that the tax shall be payable by equal half-yearly payments { (2), whether the Government intend to insist on payment of the tax for the whole year in one payment, and if so, under what provision of the law, they to take that step. The Pbbuieb said it was impossible to collect the tax on April Ist, but there was no reason why it should not be collected now, so that the Government had lost nothing. The tax due on October let would be collected in half-yearly sums, and not yearly. In reply to Mr Whyte, Mr Macawdbbw said no contract had been entered into for the construction of the railway bridge at Hamilton, but it was intended to take the matter into consideration as soon as the Appropriation Act passed, and funds were available.

Mr Fisheb, in reply to Tawhai, said inquiries would bo made as to extending the telegraph line from Herd’s Point, Hokianga to Pakio at the mouth of the river, and from Mongonni station to Kaitaro. Mr Maoakdbew, in reply to Tawhai, said the Government had received a petition praying for the construction of a railway from Kawakawa to Hokianga. Mr Adaus gave notice of the Licensing Act Equalisation of Pees. Leave was given to introduce the following Bills :—Mr Saunders, Bill to further amend the Licensing Act; Mr Wood, Auckland Grammar School Bill; Mr Rolleston, Bill to amend Canterbury Rivers Act, 1870; Mr Bain, Bluff Harbor Foreshore Amendment Bill ; Mr Bain, New River Pilot Station Reserves Bill; Mr Fulton, Bill authorising the Government to secure a road to the land of Thomas Kirk, of East Taieri; Mr Stewart, Bill to amend the Joint Stock Companies’ Act, 1860.

Mr Whitaker gave notice to ask if [the bridge over the Waikato at Hamilton was not included in the sum of £168,000 voted for the Thames Railway, and if ao,*why the work has not been commenced. On the motion of Mr Maoandbbw a Select Committee was appointed to consider all petitions that may be referred to it by the .Petitions Glassification Committee,'the committee to classify, prepare abstracts of same, of such form and manner as shall appear best suited to conyey all the requisite information respecting their contents, and report from time to time to the House, and such committee to hare power to report their opinions and observations to the House.

Mr Finn gave notice to ask it Government will, open for sale lands at the head of Lake Wakatipu. ADDBHgS IN EBPIiY, The adjourned debate on the Address in rsply, and amendment thereto, was then taken.

Mr Spbiqht, who had mored the adjournment on the previous evening, said he did not ask for the consideration of the House because he found that sometimes involved only a scathing rebuke for first efforts, which he would not court. He was pleased, as a new member, to believe there was an improvement in the tone of the Opposition, for which they were greatly indebted to the leader, and also that there was hope of a continuance of this improved feeling and courteous treatment. He must first say he was disappointed with the speech of the leader, because bo thought that the bill ef indictment would have been more telling. He thought he could frame a stronger Bill of indictment—[hear, hear], — but even then he did not think it could justify the vote of no confidence. There were soma gentlemen to whom nothing was easier than to raise attacks on any Government, and some such gentlemen occupied the Opposition benches at present. He had firm convictions on some questions before coming there, and they were not assumed for the occasion, and when he found the leader of the Opposition taking the course he did, ha at least thought he should advance a reason satisfactory to the country for the course he had adopted. Those were the only reasons which induced the young greyhounds to adopt the course they had, which brought them to the House and led them on, and which would lead them to a sphere of usefulness in the future good Government of this colony. On the subject of finance, he thought the attack of the Opposition was a signal failure. He thought the Premier was completely exonerated from any attempt to deceive the House in the introduction of his financial statement, although accused to the contrary. It wasunjust to say this Government loaded the country. It was the abolition of provinces which was a fruitful source of increase of expenditure, Referring to Native affairs, the great bugbear of the Government, he considered that if there was less interference on the part of the Opposition it would be bettor for Native affairs. There wore found men who were willing to thwart the efforts of any Native Minister or Government in order to throw obstacles in the way of successful negociationa. Ministers might wear themselves out, but they would get no sympathy at the hands of the Opposition. The Thames affair was a slight trouble, but had been magnified into a rebellion, and they were led to believe that all persons would require to buckle on armor in consequence. They were told that if prompt measures had been taken the men could have been secured, bat he was sure that if armed constables went there they would not answer for the result. If the two persons allied with them a strong force, and an attempt had been made to apprehend them, it would simply have been like fools rushing in where angels feared to tread. He did not approve of the action of the Native Minister as a rule, but he did approve tf the course taken on this matter, when he said tbs Natives should themselves bo made responsible through the forfeiture of their land for the reparation of this offence. Whilst there were to be found on tha Thames men as brave as could be found in the colony, there was an amount of responsibility which they should not be held liable for, and after all be did not yet think the management of Native affairs desorved the censure received. He thought that, it necessary, the land disputed should be occupied by an armed party, although not at present, until an arrangement had been made for reparation for the injury done. He next alluded to the charge of bribery preferred against the Press. He could not allow such a charge to pass without protesting against it. There were men who did not think for themselves, and greatly depended on the way the Press was conducted, and it was a paltry thing to say that their articles were guided by the Government advertisements. If it was so, then it wat lamentable. But he considered that the Government patronage in the shape of advertisements was a fallacy. Hood Boards and tradesmen were as good patrons as the Government. ] Ho would solve the matter by giving no advertisements. Newspapers would give the information for the benefit of their readers, and because they would not be supported if they did not. He maintained that any Government would use their influence to ensure the return of their supporters. There were always to be found worshippers of the rising sun, and that being the case, the Government could always have supporters. The Premier had answered the charge of using the steamers for political purposes. He would only say more power to the Premier for the course he had pursued in his efforts to defeat the schemes of those opposed to him in trying to exclude the serpent from entering Eden. He had only done what was right and justifiable, for he did not oome up from the south and use the Government steamer in the journey in order to assist him, but on other and more important business. He thought it was a pity, if the exleader of the Opposition could have been scoured in his seat by the use of the Stella, that an application was not made for tho steamer. Ho could not say what the result would have been, but he could say ho was sorry for various reasons that the hon. gentleman was not in his seat. He felt that he was influenced by a sincere desire to benefit the colony. Referring to charitable aid and local bodies, ho was sure from his own knowi ledge that the Government had taken great piina in tho matter. In the town from which he came the full control had been taken over all but the oriminal class, but they had done so in opposition to efforts made to thwart them by the part of tho House opposed to the Government, who told them that the consolidated revenue would not bo responsible for such charges after a year or two. This statement had been successful in preventing others from following in the course taken by the district to which he referred. Tho same people had brought forward Bocal Option and L’osusing Pees Bills with no other object than to show their very liberal intentions, and so long as that was their intention* ho

hoped the Bill* would not pass the second reading. They would hare the people believe that they were the proper persons to whom these great liberal measureslehould be trusted. It was very nnlikely they would do so. Ho next proceeded to inquire into the cause of desertion by the hon. member for Cheviot or the party he was now so fiercely opposed to, and said although he could not now fathom it, he hoped to be enlightened at some future lime as to the motive for his recent conduct. The Premier on the subject of the Electoral Bill and the Maori dual vote maintained that he could not allow any measu’ewbich a did not affect the Upper House to be thrown out by that body, and in dcing so he was only keeping up the dignity of that House. On one point he (Mr Speight) was satisfied. The Opposition had no intention to support the liberal measures they were professing that they were willing to give effect to, although they might just as well make up their minds that these measures would be passed. They told the House that they would not oppose the measures introduced, but the fact was they wished to interrupt those measures and not leave the same to the country. He could only say with the Premier, that ho distrusted such men. They were going to vote for the Triennial Parliaments Bill, although, with only one honorable exception, they all opposed it in a solid phalanx, as the records would show. They only now came before them in eupporb of these measures because they know the country would have nothing short of them. He trusted when these now Bills became law there would bo another appeal to the country, when they would see the result. He asked that the Government and their supporters should have an opportunity of carrying out the measures of which they were the authors. Referring to the Premier in eulogistic terms, he concluded by saying he did all in defence of the liberals of this country which a man dare do. [Cheers ] Colonel Imaiß said he thought there was a misapprehension in the minds of some hon. members regarding one or two points referred to. On the question of subsidies, the new rule introduced by the Government had given very great trouble throughout the country, because they had received no notice of such a change. The objectionjjto the use of the Hinemoa was only that it should not be used for electioneering, but general purposes. As to the plural voting, he for one was quite ready to give up his plural vote, and he apprehended that the objection was that we should not be drertaxed in proportion to others. Other things being equal, they were quite prepared to give up the cumulative voting. They were told they were all liberals, but desired to raise an aristocracy. This was certainly not applicable in his case. All attempts to perpetuate the aristocracy of the old country, or to found a new aristocracy in this country, would be a failure. With regard to what had been said of Lord Beaconsfield by the Premier, he could agree with him politically. He (Earl Beaconsfield) was a charlatan, but be was not a brute, and that was what the Premier’s accusation tended to in speaking of his calling for three cheers for the Irish famine, when assembled at a festive board. He differed from the Government on some points of policy, to which he should refer. The mover of the Address in reply seemed to be aware that the Government had stopped free immigration. The advantage of the nominated system was, that it brought amongst them the class of men who were honest, sober, and fitted for the work before them. An alteration had recently been made, requiring a payment of £5 in advance on nomination, which hod the effect of stopping immigrants. In the district ho came from he had been assured by the oldest residents that; wages were increased by immigration, and immigration should be conducted on a liberal scale. Ho could not support a Government controlled by one who would not say whether ha was a free trader. He had always been in favor of free trade, and maintained that it was not an open question as to whether they should support it. He would only ask, referring to Native matters, whether their management had been sncceasful. The shooting of Government officers could not be construed into a tribal dispute. Two years ago, when the present Government took office, they had no Native troubles before them. Certain surveys were then about to bo done in the Patea district, but the Government said these surveys should not then be made, and must first be inquired into. Twelve months later they ordered the | survey to be made, and the Natives, who before thought they had friends in office, re-

aented the changed intentions in the way they did. The land was advertised for sale, but the notices were afterwards withdrawn. (The speaker was out short by the hour of adjournment.) EVENING SITTING. ADDEE9S IN BEPLY. Colonel Tbimblb continued—He had said that Mr Gladstone was a free trader, and leader of the Liberal party, and ho never spoke with any [uncertain sound, or carried two faces as a leader. He had said that the

position taken by the Ministry encouraged opposition on the part of the Natives. The effect was that the Natives came to consider the Government as possessing no mind ot their own, and there was nothing so vacillating as the conduct of Ministers on Native affairs. It had been said the Taranaki people had . some interest in keeping up the vac Hating {policy, but he knew nothing of it, and could only say that if they knew when to expect war they would be prepared for it. He had asked in the interest of the out settlers for protection at the time when the Premier visited the place, and was told that no necessity had been shown. The Government waited for its subjects to move before taking any action. It was absurd to tell them they had an interest in keeping up active service for the-pay. Was it likely they would have their families' lives endangered to keep up an expenditure on armed men, or to sell heads of cattle for the maintenance of those men ?- The policy of the Government ought not to be military settlements, but to sell land to the highest bidders and supply protection to the settlement. He had no wish to say anything against Ministers, They had always been courteous to him, and were doing what was according to the light within them. But he feared their light was darkness. He asked that the land should bo individualised, and ample provision made for Native reserves and roads. They would receive an increased value for lands through roods. As to the extension of the franchise in his own district some 600 freeholders were not enfranchised, owing portly to their own neglect and partly to the contradictory nature of the course to bo adopted for registration. The provision requiring that names should be sent into the registration officers was not carefully attended to, and too often technical errors disfranchised electors whose names were sent. Besides this, the dual voting of Natives could at any time be made to swamp an electorate, and he objected to these men, who had no land of their own perhaps, swamping tho bona fide settlers. He supported universal suffrage. With regard to the redistribution of seats, he maintained that population was the true basis, but property would also have its share through the increase of population. There was no real antagonism between town and country, but they were not always considered to be identical. It was urged in his constituency that he was opposed to altering the hour, and on that ground ho obtained precious few votes from the town. The town and country had feelings not always in unison. On the subject of triennial Parliaments, they were in its favor. Personally he was not tied, but should support it. Tho liberal party, with which ho was connected, was in a minority, and he was used to it, but he was always glad to see his minorities come into majorities. They took no man’s acre nor taxed any man’s land, but they did not support artificial buttresses. They asked people to feel their own way and walk by their own strength. They tried to make men feel that they were men, but that was not the case in this country. Why was the law of entail which fostered large estates kept on the statute bocks of this colony ? Tho so-called liberal party here was not an earnest one, or else they did not know what it meant. If they considered it right to denounced one party and to flatter and to cajole the working men, it was nearer mountebankiam. He would counsel tho young men to stand fast to principles, to hold on to convictions, and be not afraid of enthusiasm. If they were properly swayed by such, they would not require to be afraid of old age. [Cheers.] Mr Moss congratulated the House on the improved tone since reassembling after dissolution. Ho confessed that the leader of tho Opposition had shown good taste and gentlemanly feeling in his speech, but he felt regret that he had not a better cate to deal with. He could scarcely understand why the hon. member who had ;ju*t %t down, whose feeling*

1 wore so groaily in accord with hie own, should j be found voting on one side and he on i another. He maid only account for st oh the ground that the gentleman had been twenty i years in one colony, as ho nnderstood he hod only been a few year* in New Zealand. Mr ' Moss then proceeded to defend the policy of the Government, and to exculpate Ministers from tho charges preferred against them. They were told that they should preserve peace at any risk, or the finance of the colony would bo deranged, and great loss- would ensue. But he would have the Native Minister to defend his- policy. He maintained that when tho hon. member for Grey and Bell had boon longer in the colony, ho would find that there wore true liberals on his (the speaker’s) side of the House, instead of being confined to a few on the other side. He asked if that was an act of Liberals which kept up a Maori newspaper in spite of the disapproval cf the House, or if tho party who purchased the Hinemoa were tho only true Liberals. They also knew how tho Civil Service had been added to by men from England instead of promoting men in tho colony, and that was done by the Opposition, who were also the greatest owners of the Press, and had formed companies in order to get hold of the newspapers. They had been told they were all Liberals, but one party wanted to turn out of office the only Liberal Government, and directed their efforts towards the removal from office of the only Liberal leader they possessed. He intended to give a hearty support to Ministers until they had an opportunity of carrying into effect tho liberal policy they had introduced. [Cheers, j Mr Gisboenb next rose and proceeded 5 to defend Ministers from the accusations made against them by those who were anxious to take their places and pais their measures. He considered such a course unprecedented, lie maintained that the words “no confidence in the Government as at present constituted,” meant something more than appeared on the surface, and were introduced by design. Ho maintained that the charges brought against the Government were newspaper assertions, and he would undertake, bymeans of a pair of scissors and a blue book, to frame a much stronger indictment against any Ministry, not excepting that of which the hon. membsr at the head of the Opposition was a distinguished member for three years. He proceeded to defend tho Premier from the accusations brought against him, and said that tho remarks made by the hon. member at the head of the Opposition against newspaper people were not creditable to him. On the subject of favoritism in the Civil Service, he stated that the conduct of former Governments was much more reprehensible than that of the present administration. With regard to lunatic asylums, the present Government had contracts out for works amounting to £150,000 in connection with asylums. The telegram scandal was only on isolated phase which had no application to Ministers generally, and even in the instance referred to an explanation, which should be considered satisfactory, had been given. The impeachment really resolved itself into a personal attack on the Premier, who appeared 1 to have aroused the opposition of certain hon. 1 members of the House anxious to sacrifice the ! originator of tho policy in order to possess that policy and put it forth as their own. For nearly twenty-fire years this leader had i been the Queen’s representative in her \ colonies, and during that time he had always ] devoted his efforts towards the amelioration i of the condition of the classes he had to i govern, and not towards benefiting himself to 1 an extent which otherslwould have done placed I in similar positions. His greatest efforts had ' been devoted towards minimising pauperism and securing the greatest good for the ( greatest number, and his name would be passed down as the champion of their rights and liberties. i

Mr Dies said new members had been cautioned that if certain measures wore passed they would have to go back to their constituents, and that, if they did not support Ministers, they would bo rejected. Now, this might affect some hon. members, but it was not applicable to the members- sent by his constituents. He then referred to the Native Department, and characterised the treatment of Rewi as undignified and unfair to the country, because it represented that he was superior to Rings or Governors or anyone else. He did not profess to know moro than what the newspapers told him ; but, from what he Jcnew, he thought a mistake had been made in the treatment of Te Whiti. He did not think the Premier had acted with the clearness and decision which they were entitled to expect from one who had occupied the position he had. He trusted that all his mistakes would be buried with his bonoß,,and that only his good deeds would live after him. He thought that, if he had never occupied any position of power than that of Governor, he would have left a greater name behindi_ He knew that he intended at one time to make his government of the country, a model for others, but he bad not done so. He threatened to make great reductions two years ago, but had not done so. They found that the former Government chastised them with whips, and now they, were chastised with scorpions. It appeared to him that the question was not so much what Bills should be carried, as who should carry them. The Government had held office for two years, but had not during that time given them a satisfactory report of the finances of the colony. On these and other grounds, to which he referred, he supported the amendment of the hon. member for Selwyn, Mr leeeand said he wished: to give a few of hia convictions, andf to account for the vote ho should give in favor of the Government whenever the division, came on. Ho thought it was fair to give- individuals and Governments an honest trial before condemning them, and he hoped they would afford the present Government such|» trial, in order that they might have a full opportunity of carrying out those Liberal measures which they'proposed. Tho country had been appealed to on account of those measures, which it was now sought to strangle by turning out Ministers. He thoroughly approved of the policy contained in the Governor’s speech, but was a thorough free-trader, and could not boar tbe thought of protection, and trusted the Government would carry out the measures set forth. Mr Pishes moved the adjournment of debate at midnight.