THE ELECTIONS.

Globe, Volume XXI, Issue 1720, 25 August 1879, Page 3

THE ELECTIONS.

SIR GEORGE GREY AT THE ODDFELLOWS’ HALL. Sir George Grey, K.C.8., one of the candidates for the representation of Christchurch in the General Assembly, delivered an address in the Oddfellows’ Hall on Saturday evening. The tall was densely packed within a few minutes of the doors being thrown open, and admission to the gallery was by ticket only. Not only were the passages literally blocked, but the window sills were stormed as points of vantage. The curtain rising discovered the platform fully occupied. Great confusion prevailed. Sir George Grey bowing amidst cheers and groans. The Mayor, amidst much interruption, said it afforded him great pleasure to take the chair on this occasion. Sir George Grey, as they were aware, now came forward to enlist their ■sympathies, and if they would give him a patient hearing he would address himself to the various topics occupying the attention of tho at this time. It was a very important time to the country, and it behoved them to look well to their representatives in the Parliament of New Zealand. Sir George Grey on rising to speak was met •with a deafening uproar. His supporters rose en masse cheering and waving their hats, whilst others hissed and hooted. The candidate, whose voice was frequently rendered inaudible by the prevailing din, said —Mr Mayor and Gentlemen, —I will at oncj try and place myself on a proper -footing. In the first place I may say this, if I am elected as your representative, if I have the honor of being elected as the representative of the City of Christchurch, I wish to assure yon that it is my intention not only to stand for the City of Christchurch, but it is my intention sedulously to devote myself to endeavor to promote the interests and welfare of the inhabitants of this city. [Cheers and counter cheers.] The rumour has been spread that if I were elected here I would sit for another constituency. _ Now what I _ wish you to understand is this—friends of mine in the North of New Zealand determined that I shall occupy a seat in the coming Parliament, and will elect me, so if I fail in one place I shall be certain of a seat in the other. The understanding is that if I am elected for Christchurch I should resign my seat in the North of New Zealand, and they would thereupon elect another man to carry out in Parliament those principles which I believe wo all advocate. Secondly, I wish yon all to understand another thing—it is this, that a story has been circulated here that I am in point of fact a renegade, that when in England I stood for a seat in Parliament upon Tory principles. Now what took place was this —X landed in England upon the Friday, and on the Saturday I went down to Herefordshire, to ne-.r Malvern, to see a sick uncle of mine, who was upwards of ninety-two years old, and on the Sunday a telegram was brought to me from Malvern, which was written to me by the whip of the Tory party, by their Parliamentary agent. The general election was then going on, when this offer was made to me, that if I would enter Parliament in the Tory interest they would provide me with a seat in Nottingham, and they went on to say that they were so anxious I should join them, that if I had any personal objection to sit for Nottingham they would give me the choice of five or six seats, and to that I replied respectfully that if I wished to enter Parliament I would only enter Parliament in the • Liberal cause. [Cheers and groans] When I was thus reduced to decline to accept the offer which had been made to me, that was the whole of my connection with the Tory party whilst I was in Great Britain. [Applause and interruption. | The Chairman—Gentlemen, ns a friend of Christchurch, I must osk yon to maintain order. Gentlemen, I beseech you to be quiet, for it is impossible for anyone to apeak. [The disorder became more intense, and an individual on the platform having asnimod the role of master of ceremonies, called for three cheers for Sir George Grey. This was received with deafening cheers and groans, and a similar call for Mr Richardson also met applause and cries of derision. Mr Stevens walked forward on the platform, and requested that Sir George should bo accorded a patieut hearing, but although that gentleman shouted at the top of bis voice the confusion was so great that ho was quite inaudible to tho-e in his immediate neighborhood. Mr Richardson then sought to quell the disturbance, bnt his efforts were quite ineffectual, the whistling and cat calls biing more furious than before. Sir Georgo Grey, when the noise had subsided, continued —Well, gentleman, to proceed with what I was saying, and I will then try and address you ou some other two or three points. Now this wo should all bear in mind, we ought all to be fellow workers in one great cause, and that one duty that we owe to the cause in which we arc engaged is not to pay too much attention to the attacks which are made upon those individuals who attempt to lead you. Those who really aspire to bo leaders of men should think, comparatively speaking, bat little of themselves They should walk along the path of life not stopping to rebut every attack that is made upon them —[A voice—You can’t do it] —not thinking of every idle word that is uttered against them. Truth will in the end prevail. To give you one illustration of what I mean. I say that all men who engage in the struggle for the general freedom of the mass of mankind must recollect this that they are engaged in an heroic struggle, and to some extent each one and all must act as an heroic man, or they cannot achieve the objects which we ought all to have in view. Let mo give you an illustration of wb at I mean, for example, that man who stops on every occasion to defend himself can achieve nothing, Xiis whole time, his while attention will be occupied in the one single question of selfdefence, instead of leaving time to bring to light that which is true and which will inevitably ultimately come out. [A Voice—“ When ?”] Now, I ask you all to think of this. Yon had as free a constitution given to you as any country in the world ever enjoyed. You chose your own officers of every kind —you elected, in point of fact, your own governors for the districts of Now Zealand. Every opportunity was afforded to each man to attain the highest offices in the country of which ho was an inhabitant, every opening was given to talent and to intellect, and yon possessed a constitution which was the envy of many other countries That constitution was devised by myself. [“ Oh 1 oh !” Cheers and groans ] Search the records of this country and of the British Parliament ; search the records of Groat Britain and New Zealand, and what I say will be found established beyond the possibility of dispute. Yon have been told Sir John Pakington framed that constitution. Sir John Pakington did but -one thing—he altered it and he took away the

e ective Legislative Council, which was m the Constitution that I advised, and in place of that he put a nominated Legislative Council, that is whvt he did in reference to the Constitution, and nothing else. Now, what has twenty years of the administration of that Constitution resulted in ? For twenty years it has been administered literally by the same knot ot individuals—one out and the other in, but with one common purpose and one common object in view, and that was, not to give the people any further liberties, or even to secure them advantages which they possessed. [Hear, hoar, and *• shame.”] 1 ask you what has the twenty years resulted in ? That Constitution has been abolished. You no longer elect your own superintendents, that is, your own Governors; you no longer have a wholly representative Assembly in each part of New Zealand, such as Provincial Councils, but you have one Legislature sitting in a central place of New Zealand, only oao branch of that Legislature being elected, while the other is nominated and absolutely beyond your control. [lnterruption ] And in addition to that the onejbranch ot the Legislature which is elected is not elected under a fair franchise, and the representation has been so managed that pocket boroughs have been created in various parts of New Zealand, and the great mass of the population has no power in that House. I myself represent now about two thousand three hundred electors, b b eru were several members there who represented tw o hundred and fifty, seme three hundred, others four hundred and fifty, and members who represented five hundred. That was the kind ot way in which the representation was arranged, ana now wo are told that the representation would have been altered if I had permitted it to be altered. [A Voice—" So it would.”] Why was it not altered years ago? Why, when in : 675 they introduced the Representation Act, w. y did they introduce a Representation Act which made representation worse than it was before, when they had absolute power then to bestow free and fair representation upon all the colony of New Zealand? I say this, I was asked, why not introduce a Representation Act to do justice to my own friends; well it was because the mass of my own friends said no, wait till you can appeal to the people of New Zealand ; till a fair appeal has been allowed to them; till a Parliament had boon returned for the purpose of carrying these great measures. Do you believe, they said to me, that the men who in 1875 had an enormous majority in the House of Representatives, will pass a true Representation Act? No, you would be led to introduce another Representation Bill, and it will be so mangled by the majority that sits in the House that it will come out utterly worthless. What hope could we have had that anything else would have been done when for twenty-five years they have desired pure representation, and twenty-five years they have desired triennial Parliaments, and these triennial Parliaments were never bestowed upon them? Dees not this answer itself ? Now let me follow the thing further to yon, and let me carefully consider the whole snbjeet. After the end of the twenty years of this administration yon would have been left without a fair representation, you would have been left without an electoral system suited to the circumstances of the colony; you would have been left with Parliaments elected only every five years, but what further had been done? Why in every respect all power had been taken away from you. Following the subject into its details, the General Government had a Minister of Lands, and that Minister of Lands was rendered powerless by Land Boards established in different districts of the colony and those on these Land Boards had been nominated by a Government who had been in power for years. They were in no way responsible to the people, and in no way responsible to the Minister for the Crown. Then remember what had been done in every way where this system had been followed. The power had been centred in .a few hands. To give an instance of that, yon had counties formed, and you had large subsidies given to those counties, hut in these counties plurality of votes were given to the wealthy. It is possible that the majority of the inhabitants of the county had hut one vote, and each powerful or wealthy person in that locality might have forty-five votes, and under this system of voting they were enabled to dispose of all the funds which flowed into the county treasury. Now, where did those funds come from ?_ They came from your pockets. What I mean is this ; I take the case of last year. Last year the rates levied amounted on the who'e to LI 197.613. Now these rates they say, were raised princi; a ly from property, that is from valuable lands, and under the excuse that such is the case they claim the absolute disposal of all the funds raised by local bodies. What the Government paid from the revenue to local bodies, was close upon ,£560,000, and there was £163,000 nearly taken out of your pockets and given to the magnates of the land to dispose of, you only having a trifling voice in it. X say again that that was a monstrous arrangement. Why should the poor man’s money bo taken out of his pocket, he only having one vote, and handed over to the rich because by a plurality of votes they had enabled them to return the councillors they pleased ? Why should the money bo taken from the poor man’s pocket and handed to the wealthy to spend as they liked ? You had no chance against the plurality of votes, and by votes ot this kind you were put down by men in whose hearts liberty never sat. They thus benefitted themselves by the system introduced, and what farther has been done ? Why a few families have been given a monstrous power in the country in another way. You have heard of the Legislative Council. Now tho Legislative Council is constituted in this way, the Queen nominates the members who sit there for life, and any member who accepts office in honor accepts for his life. There is a mutual compact between tho two: if the Queen is obliged to nominate him for his life surely he should sit for his life. There is a power given for resignation, but the power of that resignation was intended to be exercised in case of sickness, or in case of family afflio tion from some cause or other, necessitating the retirement of gentlemen who did retire from active public life. Ho was bound to his Sovereign when ho was put into the Council for life, to servo her for life, otherwise the whole Council may resign and leave her Majesty with no Legislative Council at all. Now, I say here especially, in this powerful province, a few members have power which none of their subjects possessed. For instance, Mr John Hall [cheers and groans] has used the Council for this purpose. He has twice been put in tho Council for life, when he either coull not get a seat in the House of Representatives—[oh! oh!]—and twice has he broken his faith with her Majesty, and used the Council as a mere convenience by resigning his seat, and has come out again standing to represent the people in the House of Representatives. In the same way there is one case of a gentleman who absolutely was put into the Council to be made a Minister at once, and his appointment was not gazetted or made known to the public. He remained in that position until he found he could get a scat for the House of Representatives, and in point of fact he resigned his seat in the Legislative Council and entered the House of Representatives, and his leaving the Legislative Council was not notified in tho Government "Gazette” until after his taking his seat. Both the appointment and the resignation for the first time were excluded from tho public “ Gazette” of this colony, and not notified to tho public at largo, but what was done was, that on the same day a message was sent down to the Legislative Council, stating that he had been appointed a member of it, and on the same day a me-sage was sent down stating that he had resigned his seat, and tho Council never know of his appointment until the day they heard of his resignation. He is well known to yon all—it is Mr Bowen who was the member. I have no hesitation in mentioning tho name, because these facts are public facts. I say that to use the Legislative Council for that purpose, for ths sake of a few powerful individuals, is to give those individuals an advantage not enjoyed by her Majesty’s subjects at large. Could any of ns get into ihe Legislative Council to-morrow if we asked for it, to leave an hour or two afterwards if we wanted to go into the House of Representatives? No ; it was a privilege claimed for and exercised by a few individuals. The whole number of them nearly were connected with this province. There was Sir Dillon Bell and Mr Sowell from this province. There was Mr John Hall from this province, Mr J. O. Richmond, Mr Henry John Tancred. all from this province. Mr Gisborne was not from this place. Mr Seymour was from Nelson, and Mr Bowen was from this province. I simply say that in all toose cases I have shown that one certain party for years have exercised that power, not for tho advantage of tho public at largo, but often for their own interests. I say the time has come when such a power should be stopped, [ipplausc.] I thou go on further and say this, that that party whilst in power did not, in my belief, fairly administer lauds for the benefit of the public at large. T hat was the case both with the lands belonging to the public, and it is the case with the land belonging to the Native population. I will come to that further presently because I wish to claim your attention particularly to that point, for it is really one ot the main features in tho Liberal programme, and it is ono that has boon little touched upon. I say Native lands were allowed to be so mismanaged that friends of the Government grasped large quantities of those lan Is which the public at large had no opportunity of obtaining. In illustration of what I mean I will say this —For instance, there are considerable tracts of Native lands held in this way : they are Native reserves, reserves not only for tho living Natives but for their families, and it was impossible, I believe, for any man who was not in favor of tho Government to obtain any portion of lands of that kind, bat if only in favor of the Govern ment, and ho applied to have a certain right waived, he was almost certain to get that special privilege in his own favor, and in that way it became possible for persons to become owners of very valuable lands, without the public having snob a right. Now, _ that action rendered the Government subservient to individuals ; it placed them in a worse position than any other Government with which I am

acquainted. The Government were in tins position, that if they refused to grant these benefits to their friends, they made several enemies in the face of every such refusal, and these individuals would attempt to destroy the Government hostile to their interests.

At this stage the confusion was very great, and enr • vvours wore made to extricate a man who had f dnted from tho crowd. The Mayor was requesting that order should be preserved when a general rush was made for the platform. The reporters’ tables were jumped upon, their n ites scattered about, and Kir George Grey surrounded by his supporters for protection Ihe Mayor announced that tho meeting would adjourn to tho drill shed, but those present evidently regarded this as a rase to get rid of them, and refused to budge. Dr Turnbull next mounted tho table and declared tho meeting adjourned, but after a short pause, Sir George Grey came forward and said—l hive never run away in my life, gentlemen, and I am not going t> run away now. [Gheers and uproar.] Great interests are not overthrown without a struggle. I was proceeding to say— A gentleman who has been in the Council, and who reigns his seat, and has no intention of coming back again I consider to bo acting fai ly. What I object to is tbe fact of a gentleman gjing into tho Council and coming ont again as he thinks proper, or as it suits his purpose, and again entering tho Council and coming out again. I object to his obtaining advantages in that way, which are not open to any of us. [Applause and interruption.] Now, gentlemen, I have traced up for you the form of Government which has been set up for you in the past, and I shall now endeavour to trace the form of Government which we, the Liberal party, proposed to take its place. [Cheers and hisses. Now, the first thing we worked for, and which we have obtained at last, is this. That the form of Government under which the people are to exist should not be forced npen the people. [Cheers.] That the people should ha appealed to in their constituencies, imperfect ns they are; and that those constituencies should be consulted, and their consent obtained to the establishment of laws proposed for the country. Ihere are certain laws which I should not object to being made at once. For instance, I may mention tbe extension of the electorate, to provide a fair representation of the people, the electorate being based on manhood suffrage, and the representation being made proportionate to population. [Cheers ] That I aay_ might fairly be done by any Parliament. [An interval of interruption here occurred, and the speaker could not be heard.] I say that such measures might be passed, because it is to give to the people their inherent rights. [Hear, hear.] Now, gentlemen, just reflect for one moment, as to what you will gain by tha advantages I speak of —of having manhood suffrage and fair representation, so that every man has a voice in the Parliament of the country, inexact proportion to his rights. [Hear, hear.] The first thing you would gain by this in connection with triennial Parliaments, would be a fair system of taxation. Part of^ tho old system was this —that you did not get fair taxation [Hear, hear.] And, gentlemen, every one in New Zealand now admits as one man that the taxation was not fair and just. And why, I will a?k, do the Opposition admit this now ? It is simply because they know they would be fools not to vote for the measures I have referred to. They know they would ba fools not to vote for them, because they would not otherwise keep their seats. [Applause and uproar.] But is it ont of pure love for such things they vote for them ? If so, gentlemen, whey did they so long delay to give them to you ? Why is it that year after year every man in the colony has had to pay an unfair amount of taxation. Why has he had to pay an unfair sum on his wife and every child he possessed ? Why, I say again, fora long series of years have the people had taken away from them that which they never ought to have been called upon to pay ? [Cheers.] Why was any such system allowed to continue for a single year, if those who year after year had a large majority m the House intended or had any desire to deal fairly with the people in relation to these matters Gentlemen, I say there could have been no intention on their part to do such a thing. _ It is the people of New Zealand who have risen as one man and insisted upon these things being carried out. [Heir, hear.] They are determined on forcing from unwilling hands, not particular boons, but rights which they ought to have been given long ago. Now let me point out another thing. Many of the_ legislators of the present day show by their actions that they have no true sense of that which they profess to undertake. Look, for instance, at the various manifestoes about taxation. Taxation for tho people in proportion to their means is n >w the favorite cry. Now let me tell you what that means. It means that every individual, from tho humblest to the highest, from the poorest to the richest, has to pay in proportion to what he has. Well, I say that nothing could be more unjust. There is a fair rule recognised now by all who have thought this subject out, which is that taxation should he imposed in proportion to the sacrifices made. [Applause.] Now, let ns take tho case of a poor man who even earns £JIOO a year, who has purchased a small allotment, on which he has erected a cottage. If he is putting by, say, £llO a year to pay for the allotment he has bought, and yon make him pay £llO as his share of the tax, you simply bring ruin npon him. [Applause ] Take, then, the case of a man who has £IIO,OOO a year. If yon taka £llOO from him as his share of taxation, you leave him £19300 a year, and lie does not suffer by tbe tax. Wbat hardships, let me ask, does be undergo? Wbat necessity does be sacrifice in consequence ? Wbat luxury does be give up? You leave him rolling in wealth, while tbe other family perhaps, you leave condemned to a life of degradation and misery. [Applause.] Then, again, look at tbe language of those who ask for fair taxation—those who say that we are driving capital from the country by making the land bear a fair share of the burden. Again let me put that to you—what is capital, and whence does it go? It is all due to two things—the earth wa live upon in the first place, and the human labour bestowed upon that earth. Thence comes all that ministers to tha wants and luxuries of mankind. They take from the earth by their labour that which enriches the whole world. The earth is dumb—a passionless, senseless mass : that is what one source of capital is. The other is composed of the millions of living and immortal beings, with hopes_ and fears and passions—beings to whom life is worth little or nothing if they cannot bring up in comfort those whom they love or have brought into the world. [Loud cheers.] Certainly for the last few centuries, all the decisions of the Judges have gone in favor of what is termed property, and all the laws of the Legislature have been made to protect property. So far was this extended that heavy punishments were awarded to children of tender years for the commission of minor offences. If a man stole a sheep he was subject to a sentence of death —because property had to be protected; If he stole a rabbit he was sentenced to death —because property had to be protected. [A Voice —“How long ago was that ?”] In my lifetime that was the case. Gardens and orchards were protected by spring guns and man traps. Tims if you wandered into a strange garden at night you were liable to be shot by spring guns, and many people were shot in that way, and could get no redress. That was in my lifetime. Men were shot like wolves or wild beasts—and that was done for the protection of property. [Uproar.] For 300 years the decisions of tho Judges were directed to tha protection of property—one decision being added on to the other ; and thus the senseless earth was protected at such a cost to the people that a comparatively few owners might monopclise the land. [Applause and interruption ] The result was to confine one source of capital to a very few hands. And now we have come to tho popular cry of the present day, which is no longer to consider how you may employ the earth to make it useful to a few, but how to apply the land to give holdings to the people who tread its surface. [Hear, hear.] That is tho task which wo, the Liberals, now set before us. And I ask you not to bo led astray by those who say they are in favor of Liberal measures, and would carry out the programme indicated in tho Governor’s speech. Do not be satisfied with such assertions from them. Ask them if they had those measures, what were the ends they would apply them to. [Hear, hear.] Hitherto they have been the governing class in New Zealand, and they now turn round and say that Sir George Grey is sotting class against class. [Cries ot “ Yes,” and " No.”] I say, gentlemen, that I have done nothing of the kind. [Hear, hear.] We are all fellow human beings together and as much immortal. Tho world should be so arranged that all could claim equal rights, and that education should be open to all. But hitherto, until recent years, the governing classes in England rejected every measure for tho education of the people at large, and said that education was a dangerous thing for them to possess. [Applause and laughter.] The people ought to have been told to be dissatisfied with that state of things, and ought to have striven to get the rights which belonged to them as human beings. They ought to have been told that every country should give an opening to all tho talent that is in it. Look at Great Britain ; look at the great things England has done; but what would she have done, do you think, if tho rulers of the country had been selected from one favored class, instead of being picked from the millions in it —the best men taken from the nation at large? [Applause.] How would it have been, think you, if the absolute rule had been left in the hands ot the few who claimed tho right that Providence did not give to them, but which they acquired in the dark ages of federalism, and which had sat like an incubus upon the country for years ? And those, I[say, were flying from that inonbus and that state of things I have refeired to, when they sought new lands and countries amidst great dangers and sufferings, hardships, and perils. They sought a country in which they were told the land would be open to all equally; that there was to be no favor or affection shown; that all were to have equal

rights and privileges. [Applause.] Are we then to go back, in tbs' face of this, into a state of things in which a few people shall monopolise the whole of the Government of the country until a state of things is produced here similar to that which existed in the old country, and which, as I have stated, was the outcome of the dark ages of feudalism? [Applause] In this view I look upon the main measure as announced in our Liberal programme is thus secured, that the land shall contribute a fair share to the public expenses of the country. [Hear, hear.] The next thing I say is this, let now all the land be open to the public at large—Crown lands and Native lands, let them all bo open to the public. Let me assure you of this, that any nation in which this is not the case must be subj .ct to panics and depressions such as prevail in Great Britain, and necessarily spread to every one of her possessions ; because Great Britain is the groacentre, the heart of the commerce of the whole empire. From the heart blood is drawn to supply the extremities, and they send back again supplies to the heart, and thus if the moans of supply at one of the extremities fail, the others, under the present system, must greatly suffer. I ask you to con-ider t'e effect of the land monopoly in England, as a warning against allowing the same evils to gain ground in this young country. I say that persons have died in England worth millions, which was of no use to them when they were dead and gone, but which they had held whilst living in a way that had rendered w; etched millions of men. [Applause.] Now, I gave the other night an illustration of the position of France. She is undoubtedly really one of the richest countries in the world. It was imagined that France was a poor country till the late war, after which she was shown to ho possessed of vast resources. Now France is divided into small proper, ies, and a vast number of the inhabitants possess small holdings of their own. [A voice : “ And Belgium.”] Yes ; and so with Belgium. Any one of the families having iheso small properties, accumulate capital, and those small amounts added together, eventually surpass the amount that a few capitalists could accumulate in other circumstances. [Cries of —“Leave France and come to Now Zealand ! ”J I am coming to Now Zealand presently. Now, you will ses this, that when a large portion of the population are settled upon small farms throughout the country, it is difficult to displace that population or injure them If on the other hand, the majority of the population arc merely laborers, who mnst take any employment sot before them, who can barely live from day to day, and know not when they are eating one meal where the next is to come from. [A voice —“Oh, talk sense.”] When I say the great majority are of that class who must take any work placed before them, then if periods of speculation ariscand employment of labor is demanded for one particular class of transaction the labor is necessarily thrown into that channel; and might be as suddenly withdrawn. Millions are often so displaced who havo no means of helping themselves. But had they been on farms of their own they could not have been withdrawn in such masses. Thus in times of depression when so many men are oat of employment the number thus placed mnst have been infinitely leas, and the Bufferings infinitely smaller, in the cases of France and Belgium which never know periods of crises such as England undergoes. [Hear, hear,] It is for you, then, to take care that the land is fairly disposed of, so that every man in New Zealand should be able to get a farm or holding, and it shall be my business to assist him to do it. [Applause ] Unless you do this you aro preparing for New Zealandfthe state of things that exists in England, and yon arc neglecting your interests and those of your families. [lnterruption, during which the speaker was partially inaudible.] With regard to_ the outcry raised in Wellington about the Waimate plains, let us look at it fairly. The whole of the good and valuable laud on the Waimate Plains does not exceed 100,000 acres, but that land is very rich, and the cry was raised that it should be kept out of the hands of speculators and kept Tor the people at largo. Well, gentlemen, that tract of land does not come up to what single individuals own who raised that outcry. [Laughter, cheers and hisses.] Why if they really wished that the land should be kept from speculators, did they raise that outcry after nearly all the land was gone ? Why was this not broken up long ago? Now what I proposed myself in reference to the Waimate Plains was this: Those plains intervene between the great settlements spreading from Wellington and by the river considerably beyond Wanganui and between Taranaki on the other side, and the intervening country is inhabited by Natives, not a very large number, who refused to allow the roads to be made through their property or the lands which separate the settlements referred to. These Natives had sheltered their own people who had committed acts of violence before we came into office. One man committed an outrage upon the remaining European family there. Ho was ordered to be arrested and sent to Wanganui for imprisonment, and he was rescued from the police by an armed party of Natives in open day. So that it will be seen there is between these two settlements a country which is in a disturbed state. What I proposed, then, is this. Of that 100,600 acres the main part really belongs tons. X am quite satisfied that is the case, and I said this—Let ns do something for ourselves, instead of sending to other countries for people.; instead of sending home for special settlements, let us take the sons of farmers in this country and locate them on the land. Let us place a thousand young men in that settlement, on that land, and put them there in the position of residents, [Hear, hear, and cheers.] And if the people were chosen with care there need be no fear as to the result. These two settlements, spreading from Wellington to Taranaki, would then bo united by settlements between them. This would effectually pnt a stop to Native disturbances, and the land being rich and of great value, we should in time see 1000 families established in great comfort, making homes for themselves, [fir George here referred to the early settlement of the country, comparing the North Island with the South, but the noise prevented his utterance being clearly heard.] Holding this view that it is wise to have the young men settled in the country, I say that it is of, comparatively speaking, little use to settle young men in the North Island of New Zealand unless you open something to their hopes and aspirations beyond a small farm, and what we propose to do is this— An Act will be brought in to resume the Crown’s right of pre-emption—not to give the Natives the right to sell lands as they like, but to say this to them —you shall no longer bo cheated out of your lands by being paid in grog for them ; there shall no longer be a class of men employed by great speculators to live among the Natives, and gradually purchase immense tracts of country from them. We say that this state of things shall no longer continue, but that the lands shall be sold as Government lands aro sold that they shall be put up for sale, either on deferred payments or by auction, in small blocks, so that the Natives shall obtain a fair price for their lands, and every European in this colony shall have a fair opportunity of competing for them. It should be asked whether or not a man could speak the Native language, or whether he could pay a man to purchase the land at a price which would enable him to sol! again at a fabulous profit. Nothing of that kind should exist. The Government ought to notify that certain blocks of land would be sold in certain divisions, and that every man should be able to come and purchase as he would in the case of Government lands at the present day. If the settlement of young men in the country were established in the way I speak of, those who thrived well would be able to spread into the interior, and acquire larger farms. [Hear, hear ] I he Natives have expressed pleasure at the system, and I feel this—that we ought no longer to leave the really valuable and fertile land of the colony to be purchased in blocks of 250,000 acres, as has been attempted even within the past few months. In that way wo should only bo securing the future misery and wretchedness of the people of this country. [Applause ] Now, looking at these things, I say to you that if the measures I have indicated are carried out, it is a matter of indifference to me, personally, by whom they are so carried out. No one can deny that I was the first to raise this question publicly in New Zealand. Bat a total change has now taken place in public opinion, and no one can deny that before I raised those questions the country had drifted into the state of which I have spoken. The Government of the day, who had been the ruling class for many years, said the country wanted political rest. Now, I say that to havo rested at that time was to go to a sleep of absolute destruction, and those who had tried to induce the people to believe in the necessity for such a policy were as sirens tempting them from the path of duty. But the people of New Zealand were not contented—they said a change should take place, and they rose as ono man to demand their right. [Hear, hear.] It is but a few weeks since the first proposals wore made, that a Liberal Association has been established in every large town in the colony excepting Dunedin. But they havo been agitating in that city, and this evening, just before I came to this meeting, a telegram was pnt into my bauds, in which it is triumphantly proclaimed that a Liberal Association has been established in Dunedin, and asking mo down to open it, either on Tuesday or Saturday next, as may bo arranged. [Hear, bear.] So that now, at the present moment, we may say that throughout the whole of Now Zealand one great wave has spread, and that the tide has reache 1 every part. From Invercargill to the North Cape the people have risen as one man, and Liberal Associations havo sprung up everywhere. Gentlemen, in the hands of the people now rests the interests of Now Zealand. It is for you to return men to the Parliament of the country who by their advocacy of liberal principles will do their best for its interests, [cheers and intcruptions.] Isay this,‘that it is a wonderful thing men coming from an old country, an enormous distance, to found a new nation, and that under very great difficulty. [Cheers.] I say that the exodus of

0 en from the old country So these shores which has taken place in my hfetiiiie is one of the most remarkable that has over taken place, and one whi h will be recorded in history. [Cheers ] We did not come here to make war or conquer ; we did not come hero to take gold or silver, but wo came hero, gentlemen, to establish a nation, so that we might give an opening to all who desired to make ft fresh start in this new country, [Cheers.] The first step has been taken, and now the next step to be taki n is to en-ure • b. t the principles upon which this country, nay this nation, was established shall bo carried out, and the voice ot the people shall be heard. It is in your power to attain that ohj-'et. [Cheers.] It is your privilege to return to Parliament men who will do this [Cheers and uproar.] It rests with yourselves to do this. Our policy will do this, and I say that a y man who doss not do this will in my opinion he craven. [Renewed cheers and uproar.] I trust that all of you will do all you can to return men whom y ou think will carry oat the principles I have spoken of. Take from them a guarantee that they will carry them out. I believe that if this were done you would find that men would faithfully carry out the promises so made, that they would support these principles. If there were one who did not he would feel that ho _ had had the chance cf doing good and hod missed it, and be would come back again ivi’li the feeling that he would have to live a ruin d life amongst his fellow citizens. [Cheers.] Ho would read in every- eye that ho bad not doi e bis duty, that duty which ho had promised solemnly to perform. Gontinmen, 1 think I hare would be very few who would run the risk of a punishment so savers as this. ( Cheers ] I have great faith in there being good points in all men. I believe men under certain exceptional circumstances rise to a sense of duty which impels them to do things oven at the risk of life to themselves. I believe that if it was necessary that some act should ho done to benefit mankind, some heroic act of sacrifice, which would involve death and suffering to the man who d d it if he failed, I believe I could walk into any gaol and find men who would endeavour to make atonement to their fellow countrymen, men who would do what I have said, though well knowing the result. [Cheers.] I think you may rest tolerably certain that men who promise to do such things as this will fulfil their promises. [Cheers and interruption.] There are some other points upon which 1 should like to address you, but tho hour is getting late, and I must confine myself to one or two things of local interest. [A Voice — “What about tho Canterbury land fund; tell us about tho Canterbury land fund”—cheers.] Well, then, I will address myself to the question of tho Canterbury land fund. [Cheers ] I may remark with regard to this that careful provision has been made in the Loan Bill to secure the land fund for Canterbury. [Cheers and uproar, and a voice—‘Oh, in tho Loan Bill, haw is that ? what|ibout the .£IOO,OOO it was ordered to be paid on the Ist March?”] Tho answer to this is that the Government could not at the time get tho money except at an exceptionally nigh rata of interest. This they did not think it would ho fair to the rest of the colony to pay ; this pariiiularly when Canterbury had such a large sum at the credit of her land fund. I believe I can tell you the amount, although my papers have been lost in the confusion. I may tell yon this, that the present amount to the credit of the Canterbury land fund is .£624,681 4s lid. I made this statement as Premier of the colony, and befere I thought that I should be asked to represent Canterbury or the capital of this country. [Loud cheers.] I now want to speak to yon on some local points which ore interesting to all. In tho first place, I may say that I have seen some statements in the papers that the managing staff of tho railways is to be moved from Christchurch to Dunedin, and that orders to that effect havo been given. Now, I distinctly contradict tbe statement that such orders havo been given, [bond cheers.] . I made inquiries to day myself. [Renewed cheers.] As Piemier, of course, this matter is not in my department, but in that of the Minister of Public Works, and the only interest, therefore, that I can make inquiries in will be as your representative. [Loud and continued cheering, and cries “Yon are not yet,” “ No; bat will be.” Hisses,and general uproar.] My opinion is that the Minister for Public Works would carefully consider the question in the light of what is best for the interests of the country before coming to a conclusion on it. [Cheers J I am authorised to say that he has come to a conclusion upon it, and that tho statements made in the papers to which I have alluded to are]wrong. [Cheers] I next come to a very important question, so far as Christchurch is concerned, namely, the West Coast railway. [Cheers.] On that point let me just say this, that this railway—the establishment of communication between the two coasts of the Island—was a leading thought in my mind long before I dreamed that any near relation would bo established between the city of Christchurch and myself—long before that time, X say, I used all my endeavours to promote the construction of this lino. [Lou I cheers.] I declare that no one more than myself desires that this railway should be made, and that the two coasts of the Island should bo joined [Cheers,] There are in the country through which this line will pass large tracts of country which could be advantageously settled by a large population, the land being sold on deferred payments as the railway went on. [Cheers.] You would have these tracts of land lying between the two places settled by European settlers ; you would have townships and centres of population springing up wherejnow all is All this would be most advantageous to the city of Christchurch. [Cheers.] I say that no difficulty shall stop myself and my colleagues in pushing forward this work ; no difficulty shall deter ns. [Cheers.] I believe that where two populous districts exist, which it is te the benefit of the whole colony as well as to themselves to he united, a 1 nej of railway can be found and should be found. [Cheers.] I say this with no intention of asking your suffrages on this account, because I held the same views long before the idea of ever representing you came into my mind. [Cheers.] 1 believe that no greater good could bo done to the country as a whole than the construction of this railway. [Cheers ] You each have produce to exchange and commodities which will afford a large revenue to the line itself, and be productive of great benefit to each of yon. It is like managing two persons, each with an ample dower. [Cheers ] You require their timber, their gold, and I believe their coal. [Cheers.] And on the other hand, they require your mutton and your produce. [Cheers.] And if you only establish tho line this trade would grow up to the increase of the revenue. [Cheers.] I may say that I shall do all 1 can to push on the railway whether yon take me as your representative or not. [e'heers.] I acceded to tho request that I should stand as your representative, because wherever there is a contest for what is great and good I will go into it. [Cheers.] It is a great honor to bo invited to represent a city of such extent as this, a city the capital of a district founded under such exceptional circumstances, and which has made such marvellous progress. [Cheers ] I do so, I trust, with a hope that wo shall be enabled to inaugurate a now state of things which will conduce to tho advancement and prosperity, not alone of this city, but of the whole mass of the people. [Cheers and interruption.] I am not, gentlemen, a candidate in search of a seat, nor one who cannot get a seat elsewhere, [Cheers.] I leave a constituency which has treated me well —nay, I leave two constituencies which have treated mo well. [Cheers.] They have returned me each time without one penny of expense, and they havo never asked me to do anything for them, either as a district or individually. [Cheers.] I leave the first constituency for the sake of fighting the battle of the right—[cheers]—for tho good and for the right—[renewed cheers] —and I leave the second constituency for tbe same reason. I say that if returned I will work as faithfully for you as I have done for other constituencies. _ [Cheers and a voice, “ Will you see that working men aro paid on the railways ?”] That is a question 1 will answer at once. If it is brought before me that any man has a grievance who is employed on the railways I will bring tho matter before my colleague tho Minister for Public Woiks, than whom no kinder hearted man exists, and I am sure that he will sec that justice is done. [Loud cheers.] Now then, to come to some personal points affecting myself. I am accused of having gone into a gross job with tho late Mr Jones, of tho South Island. This has been explained before. It has been said that Mr Jones had expressed a spirit of hostility- towards myself. Now I cannot bear that to be said of him. Though a man of strong feelings and apt to strongly express himself, I never met a kinder man. He had a great regard for me, and when sick and failing took his exercise loaning on my arm. He was a man who, although I must have done what was very bitter to him in the strict line of my duty, yet never referred to it nor brought the subject np, acd I wish, though he is dead and pone, that no stigma shall rest on his memory. [Cheers.] It has also been said that I have vilified the settlers of Canterbury. I say distinctly and publicly that I have never vilified the settlers of Cantffhur.v. [Cheers.] I wish to do them good—[Cheers] —and have always done all inmy power. [lnterruption. | Now it has always been stated that I was the cause of tho recall of Lieutenant-Governor Eyre. I deny this altogether. Mr Eyre had performed a very adventurous journey from Adelaide to King George’s Sound, I was so struck with his conduct in this exploration that I took him and put him into tho Government service in South Australia. Finding that I could not reward his services as adequately as I thought they deserved, and he going to England, I sent him with o letter to my friend Lord Grey, and asked him to reward him in someway. Soon after this Lieutenant-Go-vernors wore appointed in New Zealand, one for the North and ono for tho South Island, and Lord Grey wrote to mo, saying that he could not do better than send Eyre out to serve under the man who had first brought him into the service. Shortly afterwards the Constitution

was granted to New Zealand, and Superintendents took the places' of [Lieutenant-Gover-nors. Eyre then left for home, tie tenure of bis office having expired, and the system under which he was appointed having been altered You will therefore see that I had'nothing whatever to do with tho recall of Lieutenant Governor Eyre, as has been stated'. [Cheers.] It has been said here —and I should like to be clear on this point—that I was opposed to the granting of the Constitution Act to New Zealand, andloft New Zealand to avoid bringing ic into force. Nit only so, but that I delayed bringing it into force heve as long as possible. I say this, that I did not delay bringing it into execution, but- the law itself delayed it by providing that tho elections for Provincial Councils and superintendents should come into operation before those of the General Assembly. [Cheers.] As to my leaving the colony, read “ Hansard,” 1854, and yon will find this, that Lord Lyttelton—inspired probably from here by the same people who now after so many years set this scandal afloat —brought my conduct before the House of Lords on the ground that I delayed t) bring the constitution into force in New Zealand. My friend the Duke of Newcastle made a speech in reply to these charges, and explained the whole circumstances, and in such a manner that the whole House cheered him—[cheers] —and Lord Lyttelton sat down in dismay There was no one to second his motion, and it was dropped. [Cheers.] Now let me ask you to look at this statement for yourselves, and I ask yon to read a statement made by tho Government of the day, and then I ask you to say if it is not a shameful thing that such statements should be revived in the place whence they cmanat d so long ago. [Cheers ] For these and similar statements I care little or nothing. In tho House of Representatives I lave been called the common enemy of all, and such statements have been made that if I bad stopped to defend myself I should now be in a room in Wellington writing letters to the newspapers agitated by hopes and fears of what might be said, perhaps hopeless and desparing that men should make such statements, and that people should bo found tobelieve them. But I took no notice of them. [Cheers.] I went on my way of duty, and found that the common enemy of all was asked to come down here by tbe people of ■ hristebureb to ;represent them. [Loud cheers and hisses ] I never have been tbe common enemy of all —[Cheers] —but have striven to do my best to forward the interests of all. [Cheers.] I leave it to the people of New Zealand when I amdeadand gone, when my papers arc seen,to say whether I have not been their friend, [cheers.] When the secrets of Government are made known —as they will be one day—l am certain of this that I shall have justice done to mo, and the people will know that what I have done has been done in their interests. [Cheers.] I have served in many countries, and have had the thanks of many peoples and many constituencies, but I say that I shall feel still prouder than ever if returned by you. [Cheers.] It will make me endeavor more than ever faithfully to represent yon, so as to evince my gratitude to a people who, unasked by me, returned me as their representative, fLoud and continued cheering and uproar.] The Mayor—l have received three anonymous questions, marked X, 2, and 3. I will read them and submit them in the order in which they are marked. [Cries of “No anonymous questions.” “Tear them np,” &c.] Sir George Grey—lf the questions are good ones it don’t matter whether they are signed or not. [Loud cheers.] The Mayor—Then I will road No. 1. It is as follows :—“ Did a committee of the House of Representatives report to the House that the sum of £ 100,000 was due to the Road Boards of the Canterbury Provincial District?” [Cheers ] Sir George Grey—My answer to that is this, that I don’t know whether a committee did so report or not, but I say this, that the sum is due and should be paid. [Cheers and cries of “ Oh, oh,” and “ Why didn’t you pay it when you had the money?”] The Mayor—l will now read tho second question, which is as follows Why has tho .£IOO,OOO. the proportion of tho land fund duo to the Road Boards of the Canterbury provincial district, not been paid to them ?” [Cheers.] Sir George Grey—My answer to that question is this: We must have raised the money - had we paid at the time stated —at very high rate of interest, if we could have done it at all. [Cheers ] It seemed to ns folly, and not in the interests of the colony as a whole while these Road Boards had large sums of money lying idle at their credit, to raise money at an exceptionally high rate of interest when by waiting we should bo able to get it at a lower rate in the course of time. [Cheers and hisses.] The Mayor—The next question seems to me to be unnecessary to be put, as Sir George Grey has already stated in his speech his opinion on it. However, I will read it. It is as follows : * 1 Are you in favor of giving effect to a vote of

[For continuation of Sir Geo. Grey’s speech see fourth page.]

Parliament during the session of 1 ?SJ for constructing a railway connecting tho East and West coasts of this Island Sir George Grey—l have already sided that I am hoi'tily in favor of such a railway. [Cheers.] The Mayir—Tho next question is this ; " Will Sir George Grey toll tbis meeting whether it is true that 5010 acres of land at tho Kawim only pays some £5 to the land tax revenue?” [Cries of “Oh, oh.” and cheers and “Don’t answer the question.”] Sir George Gey—Let me answer tho question; I have no wish to avoid it. [Cheers.] Justlct me give you an explanation. Ido not know the amount of the land tax ; it may bo .65. I know it is only a small sum, but when yon hear wh it I have to say you will understand why. When I bought the island of Kawim it wa ; —as about 2000 acres of it remains to this day—worthless, almost entirely valueless. The part that I have spent n large sum of money on. [A. voice—“ How much did you give for it?”] Well, I don’t mind saying what t gave for it, £2500. and it was thought I had paid a very foolish sum. So valueless was i . esteemed that when I went np there with some red deer which I had purchas dto place on tho island, I mot tho'Biahop of New Zealand, afterwards Bishop of Lichfield, mid he asked me where I hud been. I told him I had been to place twelve deer on the Island of ICawau. “What,” said he, “twelve deer! It won’t carry twelve goats.” [Laughter and cheers ] Now. on this land. I have s.ent some <£lo 000 or £20,000, and by the expenditure of this money I have got the island -or ruthoi a part of it —under English grass, so that I have got 2000 or 3000 sheep on it Besides this 1 spend £llOO per annum on labor. [Cheers.] Now, the profit from the work does not reach £3OO a year and nothing but the wool and a little firewood is got from the island. [Cheers.] I have dono some good there to the community at largo. Most of the Californian quail now in various parts of New Zealand came from mo; tho black and white swans also came, and a largo quantity of valuable trees and shrubs have been distributed from there amongst the people [Cheers.] I have passed many very happy hours of my life there and trust to spend more yet. [Cheers.] I don’t even know the gentleman who valued it, but it is a curious thing that he has valued the land within £IOO of what I gave for it. There are a great many curious things to see at Kawau. which perhaps you could not see anywhere else in the world, and one of these is the library. It is a beautiful place, diversified tcenery, with broken ground, and the people of Auokhnd frequently come to see mo and to gather seeds and plants. I have had as many as 1800 at a time on the island. I should be pleased to see any of my constituents from hero if they came to see me. [Cheers ] All I can say is, I regret that it is not able to contribute more to tho Land Tax revenue. [Cheers J The Mayor—l have another question. It is this : How is it that the £ 100,000 due to Canterbury is still unpaid, and when is it likely it will be paid? Sir George Grey has already answered that—[Cheers.]—so that I will read the next one. That is as follows—“_l)o you believ- that tho runs should bo sub-divided and let on lease in small farms ?” [cheers.] Sir George Grey—l don’t know what rnns are alluded to, but my idea is this, that the rnns should be let in such a size as will enable the people to live upon them in comfort. [Cheers ] This might be managed by leasing them by public auction, so that all might compete if they desired. [Cheers.] The Mayor—The next question I have here is —“ Are yon in favor of nominated Boards having power to levy rates?” [Cheers.] Sir George Grey—l may explain that I don’t believe in nominated Boards at all. [Cheers.] The Mayor—The next question is—“ Will you in next session do away with the nominated Board of Waimakariri Conservators, and do away with their being paid ?” [Cheers and uproar. | Sir George Grey—l should ho autocratic if I said I would r o this or that. lam only one man, but I will promise yon this, that I will do all I cun to prevent any nominated Board existing in the colony. [Cheers.] The Mayor—The next question is —“ Are you in favor of tho introduction of the game laws into New Zealand? ” [Cheers.] Sir George Grey did not think that any tax should be levied upon the public to be spent upon any responsible body that elects itself. Any tax levied should go the Government. _ If it was right to support acclimatisation societies, and in some cases it was very right to do so. then he said, pay them from the revenue, but don’t let them levy a tax upon their fellow men. Tho next question read by the Mayor was — Will Sir Georgo Grey be prepared to support a policy having for its object the fostering and encouragement of local industries ? Sir Georgo Grey—Let me answer that question by telling you what X think of New Zea’and and what must he dono for your individual benefit. Now Now Zealand in my mind possesses two extraordinary qualities—two extraordinary gifts are possessed by her. She possesses in a degree non-accessibility and in a degree accessibility. Let me explain that what I mean by accessibility is this—ln Europe tho inhabitants of many nations hesitate to erect great factories, great works of any hind, owing to the enormous cost of keeping up an army. Men were continually passing from country to country destroying buildings so erected, and interfering with manufactures, trade, and comnaerce, snd for that reason no fair trial has been given to what manufactures and native industries are capable of being brought to. Now England is to a great extent inaccessible on account of !the Channel, and Now Zealand is more inaccessible than Groat Britain. It is impossible, looking at your distance from other coasts, that a largo army can ever settle upon your shore. !»• is impossible that an army of two hundred thousand could come here, as the cost would bo too largo, therefore yon have "an enormous blessing by inaccessibility. On the contrary, by the railways you are constructing, by your rivers, in some cases by your magnificent harbors, by your groat seaboard for all purposes of commerce, yon are tho most accessible nation in the world. So much so that when there was an ontcry of war taking place, and other nations went to groat expense in fortifications, I, believing in knowledge in my own possession, that it was certain that no war would take place with Russia, refused to go to the cost ot great defensive works of that kind, believing that the proper defence of your harbors were marine mines snd torpedoes. If 1 had not done that you would have had a hundred thousand pounds to expend and a large standing army to keep np. I was trained as a military engineer with tho greatest care, and I believed your proper defence lay in mines and torpedoes. I said spend that two hundred thousand pounds in harbors, opening your ports to vessels, not shutting them oat, and rendering New Zealand accessible to every nation in the world in point of commerce. That gold which will enable you to conduct all native industries in abundance, which yon have here, surrounded by nations which will take your produce from you, will send you cotton to any extent you want, will pend you the means of making the most valuable oil to any extent you want, will take yonr manufactured things from you to any extent. You will act wisely by doing nothing that will counteract commerce, bnt supporting as far as yon can every Native industry which is likely to prosper in New Zealand. [Applause.] The next question (anonymous) was —When the proposal was made in the House last session to vote 200 guineas to each member for four weeks, did .you although leader of tho House, refuse to vote on the question ? Sir George Grey—Yes, and_ I will give you •my reasons. Wo are determined in New Zealand that every child should have a high order of education, and every man should have a chance of being returned for the House of Representatives, and it is necessary that there should be an allowance made for attendance in Parliamoit, otherwise a certain class would bo debarred from the privilege it is desired to bestow upon them. When the question of paying this sum of money was brought forward I did not like tho way in which it was done, because it prevented me expressing the views I held. I thought that the members should only bo paid for the time they attended, but there was a resolution passed by the House on the subject—a standing resolution before I came into it. I thought 200 guineas too much; on the other hand, I could not vote against the vote altogether; nnd under such circumstances I did not vote at all. I explained my reasons to the House. An Elector —Are you in favor of secular education ?

Sir George—l am in favor of secular education ; and let mo toll you why. I believe that generally religion is too sacred a thing to trust to schoolmasters, many of whom may not believe in it themselves. At the same time I am in favor of allowing, out of school hours, the clergymen of different denominations to give religious instruction to the children. An Elector —Will yon support any grant of money out of public funds to any denomination for educational purposes. Sir George—Certainly not for general educational purposes. Bat let me tell you that perhaps you aro overlooking one important subject There are various charitable institutions in the colony supported by donations from religious bodies, and which do got grants from public money. I may mention that the good done to the children by such bodies is infinite, as well as the good they do generally. An Elector —Are yon a protectionist or a free trader t

Sir George Grey—One _ gentleman behind me is continually asking this question about free trade and protection To answer that definitely I say that I will not bind myself by a hard and fast rule to either of those things. I say this—that the question arises more frequently in older countries, where industries have been established for years, and money can bo obtained at a low rate of interest. I shall therefore leave myself at liberty to act in that direction which I consider be-t for the interests of New Zealand. [Hear, hear ] Mr Patrick McCoy—Will you be in favor of giving compensation in a Local Option Bill ? Sir George—That I have often declared my riewa upon. I think that whore the law en-

courages the establishment of any trade or calling whatever and a person goes to considerable expense [in entering such trade or calling, it would be unjust uot to offer them some compensation. An Elector —Do you think tho steamers Hinomoa and Stella are necessary to the government of the Colony ? Sir George—l consider that the steamers are necessary under present circumstances. One mnst be constantly employed attending the various lighthouses on the coast, and the other stn .raer is required in case ot Native disturbances. An Elector —Are you in favor of making grants to Road Boards to be held in trust, tho same as to Boroughs ? Sir George—l cannot say lam much in favor of trusts at all. I cannot pledge myself to grants made to Road Boards. 1 believe it much better to settle the industrious population on small farms. Let the country be populated, and tho more money they make they can keep the roads in repair themselves. An Elector—Are yon in favor ef the Natives having two votes ? Sir George—l will answer yon th s ; that when 1 was allowed to draw up and recommend a constitution for New Zealand, I had the power, if I pleased, to write a double vote for tho Natives ; but I did not do it. I am against a double vote to Natives. [Cries of—“ Oh,” laughter and cheers.) Let me say this : I think it is putting tho Natives in an unfair position, because tho Natives are more easily tampered with than Europeans. I never proposed to give the Natives double votes. In the Electoral Bill sent up to the Legislative Council there was a provision that Natives should have the same votes and rights as the Europeans. 'I he Council however, would not meet the Government. I thought the Counoil had no right to interfere with our franchise —that they should, in fact, not dictate to the people how their franchise should run. An Elector —Would Sir Georgo Grey support a measure to place the railways in the hands of private companies. Sir George said the question divided itself into two branches. The law already allowed branch railways to be made by private companies- that ho would not interfere with. But ho certainly would not place tho main lines of railway in tho hands of private persons. He should like to go further, and say he was not at all certain that upon inquiry it might not bo found desirable to create a Board for that purpose, and in some degree to free tho Government from unwearying applications made to them with regard to railways. Mr W. Johnston asked whether Sir Georgo Grey favored Bible reading in public schools. The Chairman said that this question had been answered.

A question was asked as to why railways unauthorised by Parliament had been made, and why the £IOO,OOO due to the Lyttelton Harbor Board and £IOO,OOO due to the Avon Road Board had not been paid. Sir George said there was no connection whatever between the railways and sums of money duo to Road Boards; they were paid from different sources. He denied that any line of railway was opened that had not been agreed to by Parliament. An Elector —How about the £IOO,OOO due to tho Avon Read Board ?

Hr George Grey said he had never heard of the matter, but if tho gentleman would send him a letter on the subject he would endeavor to explain it. It would, however, be to him a matter of congratulation that the Avon Road Board had so much money. _ [Subsequently tho questioner explained that ho had been thinking of the money due to all tho Road Boards,] Mr J. Turnbull—Why would you not allow tho services of one or other of the Government steamers to bo placed at the disposal of the late Governor P

Sir George Grey said he would at once dismiss one part of the question. There was no question about any other steamer—the Hinemoa was the only one that could be concerned, and he desired to confine himself to what were the facts. He then proceeded to explain what was the usual practice on a Governor leaving a colony. On moving from one colony to another, it was the custom for him to make a formal application to the senior naval officer for a man-of-war. He had to go through the form of application, but it was always acceded to. In that case tho Home Government paid the passage, but the Governor got no allowance. If he does not“choose to go in a man-of-war they p:y him a handsome allowance, from which he can always make a saving. [Laughter.] In that ease he pays his own passage, and does exactly as he likes, could go steer ge it he liked. [Renewed laughter.] Well the application made to him (sir George), was that the Hinemoa should be allowed to leave New Zealand to go to Melbourne, thence to Sydney to bring the other Governor hack. The application was not made by this Governor, but the other. Ho would tell them what took place with the •other Governor presently. Application was made by Lord Normanby that he should have the use of the Hinemoa, he to pay the cost of coals, which would amount to £9O. The Marchioness was in ill-health at the time. At that time he (Sir George) was Minister of Marine, and the Hinemoa was entrusted to his care by the colony to provide for the safety and welfare of the inhabitants of New Zealand. At that time it was thought there would be disturbances on the West Coast, and had that turned out to be correct, the_ services of the steamer would have been required to remove men from place to place, and provide for the safety of the lives and property of tho people in the districts affected. He thought, also, that if the Governor had chosen to go in a man-of-war or one of the big steamers, he would have found all the comfort required for the comfort of himself and Lady Normanby. Tho Home Government were responsible for Lord Normanby and the Marchioness ; but he (Sir George) was responsible for every man, woman, and child on the West Coast of New Zealand. Not for any power on earth would he have risked the lo>a of one child’s life. [Cheers.] That answered the first question. Then it was said with regard to the new Governor that we were bound to divert the mail steamer from her ordinary course, and lot her bring the Governor direct to Wellington—that is, not calling at Auckland. He felt however that the interests of the people of New Zealand were also largely concerned in this matter. Tho steamers were advertised to sail from Auckland direct, and numbers of people no doubt had made arrangements to meet the steamer in Auckland, and any alteration in the arrangements might have resulted in great loss nnd inconvenience. That was what influenced him in relation to the second matter.

An Elector —Would Sir George Grey favor a repeal of the Abolition Bill? fc’ir George Grey said he scarcely knew how to answer that question, because he certainly was not in favor of repealing the Abolition Bill, but bo did not say ho thought New Zealand at the present time had the most perfect form of government, and he left himself at liberty to vote for any better form of government that might suggest itself. He should point out that no measure for a new form of government could be carried without an appeal to the constituencies. If a better form of government could be set up, he should do so, and appeal to the country upon it.

An Elector asked what it would cost the country if a Russian cruiser had come into any of the porta of New Zealand, and why no effort was made to protect the coast ? Sir George Grey said, he, as Premier of the colony, had a right to form his own judgment as to whether a war wonld take place or not; and as they would have punished him if he had been wrong, he was surely entitled to their thanks as he had proved right. With regard te what it wonld have cost the country if a Russian cruiser had come hero, he could scarcely be expected to estimate that, but he thought it might possibly have cost tha cruiser very dzar. [cheers ] Mr W. Wood asked whether Sir Georgo Grey would endeavor to get the Governor nominated for life?

Sir George in reply to that would say -God forbid! Personally he would rather be their Premier than their Governor.

Mr Reece —Is Sir G. Grey in favor of dividing tlie Banking account of the colony ? Sir George Grey would refer them to “ Hansard,’’ where they would see ho had expressed the opinion that it was a mistake ever to put the whole of the funds of the colony in one B-.nk. He must confess also that he should bo in favor of distributing the account, but it must bo done with fairness to existing institutions now that they had been allowed to grow up. The consequence of placing the account in one Bank was to place the Government of a country in an unfair position. In answer to a question anent immigration, Sir George Grey sa;d the plan hitherto adopted was a very bad one. It was done in this way. Some gentleman would come and say ho wanted so many laborers for the harvest, and that was entered and taken down; another would come and state that labor was required for sheep shearing ; and the Road Boards would state they wanted men to construct roads, all of which would be taken down at the office and acted on. When the men came out, however, they were thrown out of employment after the necessities of the emergency had been supplied. He would suggest that every application for immigrants should bo published in the newspapers, and let the public voice be heard on the subject, and let it be determined whether immigrants were really wanted or not. The questions being finished, Dr Turnbull came forward and proposed a vote of thanks and confidence in favor of Sir George Grey. Mr Higgins (of Gust) second 2d the motion. The chairman put the resolution to the meeting amid great uproar, waving of hands, cheers, hisses, and groans. After asking whether there were any against the motion, which called forthifnrther confusion. The Chairman declared the vote of confidence in Sir George Grey to be carried. A vote "of thanks to the chairman was then proposed by Sir George Grey, and the meeting terminated.