THE CHARITABLE AID QUESTION.

Globe, Volume IX, Issue 1364, 28 June 1878, Page 3

THE CHARITABLE AID QUESTION.

COKFEBEBCE OP COUNTY ChAIBMEN AND Matobs. The Conference of County Chairmen and Mayors respecting the propositions of the G-OYernment with regard to charitahle aid, took place at the City Council Chambers yesterday, at three o'clock. The following gentlemen were present:— Messrs H. Thomson (Mayor of Christchurch), H. Allwright (Mayor of Lyttelton), G. Booth (Mayor of Sydenham), H. Blackett (Mayor of Bangiora), H. Watkins (Mayor of Akaroa), W. C. Walker (Chairman Ashburton County Council). His Worship the Mayor of Christchurch occupied the chair. The Chairman Baid that he had a letter from the Hon. John Hall, stating that he could not attend the Conference owing to a prior engagement. Ho was not able to say what the views of the County Council of Selwyn would be on the Government proposals. He had also an apology from Mr Latter, the Chairman of the Akaroa County Council, for his non-attendance that day. The minutes of the preceding meeting of the Conference having been read by the Town Clerk, . Tho Chairman snid that tho resolutions which had been read showed the state of the question at the close of the last Conference. It might be as well to point out that at that Conference the Hospital was included, but for Home reason or other this had now dropped out of the discussion. It was as well that the members should remember this when discussing the question. He might say that it was patent that the Conference could not do more than p£f3 tbfi resolutior-u, making certain suggestions. It was therefore for the Government to take the neco?sary action to initiate legislation, so as to bring the suggestions of the Conference which had been adopted bj them into actual force. This was his (tho chairman's) opinion, and he might say that of the Hon. John Hall also. They received a letter from the Government five days after

the Conference stating that they accepted the suggestions of the Conference, except that relating to the representation of the Government on the Board. Hence the Municipality of Christchurch wore somewhat surprised to receive a letter from the Government stating that from and after July Ist the Government would not take any further responsibility in the matter of charitable aid, which must be undertaken by the Council. This, it must be recollected, was without providing the municipality with any means of bringing those liable to pay to do so in proportion As an instance of what he meant, he might read a few figures supplied by Mr March, showing the number of cases receiving charitable aid, the number of persons, and the weekly cost— Christchurch, 54 cases, 178 persons, weekly amount, £23 lis 7i& ; Sydenham, 13 cases, 35 persons, weekly contribution, £7 3s lsd ; Lyttelton, 7 cases, 19 persons, weekly contribution, £3 7s ; Kaiapoi, 4 cases, 14 persons, weekly contribution, £1 15s 2d; Timaru, 12 cases, 42 persons, weekly contribution, £5 lis j Selwyn (county), 27 cases, 60 persons, weekly contribution, £l4 5s lid; Ashley (county), 10 cases, 28 persons, weekly contribution, £4 9s 2fd ; Akaroa (county), 4 cases, 13 persons, weekly expense, £3 3s ; Geraldine (county), 10 cases, 33 persons, weekly contribution, £4 4s; Waimate (county), 3 cases, 13 persons, weekly contribution, £1 lis lOd. Totals, 144 cases, 435 persons, weekly contributions, £69 Is lOfd. Now, Christchurch had to pay two-fifths of the whole expenditure, whilst her population only bore the proportion of one-seventh to the whole. Those present would he thought see the unfairness of asking the municipality of Christchurch to take over institutions which from a variety of reasons had become the rendezvous as it wore of all cases of destitution. The Hospital was for some reason howovcr struck out, and the Orphanage out of the institutions liable to be supported by Lyttelton. This probably was a bait to Lyttelton to accept the proposals of the Government, which he understood they had done in a modified form. What the Conference wanted, and what the City Council also approved of, was that the various districts should pay according to the number of patients or recipients of charitable aid who came from the several districts. He would now read the correspondence and telegrams on the subject which had passed. [The Mayor then read the telegrams and letters which were published in the proceedings of the City Council ] The following additional telegrams had been received. The first of these was one sent by the Hon. John Hall to the Colonial Secretary, in reply to one sent by the Q-overnment. It was as follows :

The Colonial Secretary, Your telegram re charitable aid just received. Owing to evident error in transinisiion it is partly obscure. I reply as far as I understand it. In answer to enquiry as to what Selwyn County has done respecting resolutions of Conference have al-eady explained that Council has been quite unable, even had it been willing to entertain pecuniary responsibility, owing to the whole of its revenue being paid by the Government to the Road Boards. Thus being entirely without general funds, it decided to confin itself to duties legally binding upon it, which management of charitable aid was not. Council approved of principle of resolutions, but assumed, as did all other bodies represented, that any change in present system must be made by law. On consideration Government will probably admit that, however good the plan recommended by Conference may be, it cannot be given effect to without Legislative authority, which shall define districts, insure payment of contribution from all local bodies affected, pro vide for case of counties where Act is not in force, &c. Your present proposal I will laj before Council on Friday next, communicating in thomeantime with the Mayor of Ohristcharch, and will telegraph decision of county without delay. Perhaps you will be good enough to restate proposal. As air, ady stated telegram is not clear.

John Hall, Chairman County Council Selwyn. The following telegram had been received : rom the Government: —

Be your telegram of 19th instant, Government does not propose to give less, but rather more charitable ad throughout the colony after 30th June, and by leaving the distribution to persons or institutions on the spot, to make the amount go further. I trust when your Worship receives my letter of the 19th instant you will understand the views of the Government, the administrative change about to be made being practically in accordance with the views of the Christchurch Conference, which were accepted by the Government. I trust to find that Canterbury, at all events, will be ready on list July to undertake distribution of funds for charitable aid purposes, chiefly given by State. G. S. Whitmobe. It would be seen that the Government ignored the suggestions made by him that the Government should carry on as at present until the Municipalities, &c, had perfected their arrangements to take over these institutions. The terms offered in the last telegram of the Government seemed to him to be a bait to the Cbristchurch City Council. The City Council, however, had not responded to it. It must be recollected that though the Hospital and Orphanage had been dropped out of the discussion regarding the oharities the boroughs would have to pay towards the support of these institutions, and it was much better that they should know exactly what they had to pay, and how it was to be arranged. As regarded the Hospital, he might say that before Sir George Grey left, it was arranged that the Hospital should be placed under local supervision, and that the members of the Board should be the Mayor of Christchurch, Dr. Tnrnbull, an officer of the Government, and perhaps the Hon. John Hall. At present he believed the Hospital was managed by the medical staff, and the members of the Conference would agree with him that this was not satisfactory, as the duties of the medical staff did not seem to him to be compalible with the discharge of the duty of management. He had, he thought, put the matter clearly before the Conference, and would answer'any questions.

Mr Booth said the Sydenham Council were quite in accord with the resolutions of the Conference. But he wished to point out that it appeared to him that there was something wrong somewhere, because the Government having accepted the suggestions of the Conference some means should bo taken to carry them into a practical effect. What he thought was this, that the borouglis who had agreed to do bo should pav to the charitable aic| fund temporarily, and ho thought that the Christchurch Gity poimcil would also do so. As to districts, he thought it would be better for the provincial district of Canterbury to be divided into more than two districts. They must also see that the Hospital was included, as they intended, in their resolutions. There was one point to which he would like to refer, and that was the much larger deductions made from Canterbury in this respect than the othor'provinces, there being no contributions from Canterbury in the way of private benevolence, which he thought looked very bad for Canterbury. He was glad to see at Kaiapoi that the Borough Council had resolved to take steps for the invitation of funds from private benevolence, and he thought that they might very well consider whether it would not be well to institute life governorships in connection with the Hospital, and by other means endeavour to encourage private benevolence. Qo far a=s the Hospital wan concerned, he felt very strongly that no borough should attempt to discharge itself of the responsibility of contributing towards this institution upon the basis of residents going as patients. What they should do that day was to make temporary provisions for the carrying out of the resolutions of the Conference, and also encouraging private benevolence. He wauld like to aek the Major whether it was a fact that the Hospital had been excluded from the institutions proposed to be handed over to the local bodies ?

The Mayor said his opinion was that the Government were only making their proposals piecemeal. If they had asked the municipalities to have taken over all the institutions they would have bet-n at once refused. From a certain date in the correspondence., the Hospital dropped out ; and the medical staff, as he had said, were tho managers now, an arrangement which he thought they would agree with him was not a siitisfuctory' one. Mr Allwright said he thought that the Conference should have been brought together so soon as the answer was received from the Government accepting the suggestions of the Conference, so as to have made arrangements for the temporary manage ■ ment. There was no qoubt of thiq • that the

Government intended to get rid of the charitable institutions, and to plaoe their management in the hands of a local Board, which he thought was a very good idea. It need not necessarily be the Council, indeed it would be much better placed in other hands, but some local body with, say the Mayor at its head, would be able much more satisfactorily to distribute charitable aid. The Mayor of Christchurch, it seemed to him, had taken a very narrow view of the matter. Indeed he looked at it from a Christchurch view. So far as the contribution from Lyttelton was concerned, it might be looked upon as small, but they must remember that Lyttelton was the only borough which had a Benevolent Association which distributed some £6O per annum. As regarded the Orphanage he had received a telegram from the Government, stating that they did not intend to place the Orphanage onto the municipalities, at present at any rate.

The Chairman said that the speakers who had followed him seemed to think that the Conference could take legislative action, and bring into force Boards, proclaim districts, &c, which it would be necessary to do in order practically to carry out the suggestions of the Conference. The onus lay on the Government to do this, not the Conference. Mr Walker quite sgreed with the chairman and could not see how it was that the Government could look at the suggestions of the Conference in any other light. What the Conference could do was merely what had been suggested by the Mayor of Sydenham, viz., to devise some scheme to enlist private benevolence to meet the expenses of charitable aid temporarily. The Mayor of Sydenham had contrasted private benevolence in Canterbury unfavourably with that of other provincial districts. This, however, was not the fault of the people. It arose rather from the large amount of money at the disposal of the Government in Canterbury. It must further be remembered that Canterbury was looked upon by loafers of all classes from other parts of the colony as a place where they could live for some months at the public expense. So far as he was concerned, representing an outside body, he might say that all they could do was to look to Christchurch, as tho one to be m ost heavily bur den ed, to take steps to have the suggestions of the Conference carried out by legislation. In the meantime they would have to stimulnte the private benevolence of the community so as to enable them to make temporary arrangements to meet the difficulty. One thing was certain, that legislation was necessary before the suggestions of the Conference could be carried into actual effect.

The Chairman said that as regarded the other provinces it must be recollected that both Auckland and Wellington were handsomely endowed for their hospitals. Mr Watkins thought that the Government should take steps to legislate, so as to carry into effect the suggestions of the Conference. Aa regarded Akaroa he might .say that they had collected a vory largo sum for them for benevolent objects. Mr Allwright said that the Hospital and Orphanage being out of the question, then all they had to do was to consider the distribution of the charitable aid only. The Chairman said that the position, as regarded the Christ church City Council, was this. They had asked the Government to put the local bodies in a legal position to carry out the suggestions of the Conference, and if it wero done there need be no more trouble. But the Government did not seem to be prepared to do this, and the Christchurch City Council declined to take oyer a responsibility which imposed upon them fcwqfiftha of the cost, whilst their proportion of the population was only one-seventh. Mr Booth was prepared to move resolutions if the Conference was called to devise means to meet temporarily the crisis which had arisen. His idea of the Conference was that they should endeavour to help the Government so far as they could. As to speaking about legislation, how could the Government carry out legislation until the Assembly met ? He sympathised with the City Council, and as representing Sydenham he was prepared to consider how the City Council could be helped. Ho thought that the other bodies would do the same, and if they separated without considering tho means to be adopted to meet the requirements of the case, they would not have done what they met for.

The Chairman said tint he wanted to know why the Government could not carry on the present system for some two or three months? The management of the institutions did not cost the Government one farthing, as they recouped themselves out of the subsidies. Let the Government carry on the present system until the Assembly met, when legislation might he carried out to give effect to the suggestions of the Conference. It seemed to him very suspicious that the Government did not do this. It must be remembered that the establishment of local Boards would stimulate private benevolence, and would add to the revenue to which the Government proposed to contribute £1 tor £l. It, as he maintained, the Hospital and Orphanage were oertain to come to the local bodies in the end, why were they not included now. All that was asked was for the Government to place the local bodies in a proper position and upon a sound basis to carry out these institutions. The Christchurch City Council declined to accept the proposal of the Government because they did not propose to put the local bodies in a position by legislation to carry out their duties as regarded these charitable institutions in an efficient manner. Members of the Conference must remember that once having taken up the management of these institutions they could not lay them down again, and therefore it wa« ne'bessary that they should &«e, before taking over these institutions, that they did so on a firm basis.

Mr Booth again reiterated the opinion that the Conference should have taken means to have the suggestions of the Conference, which had been accepted by the Government, carried out.

Mr Allwright said that the chairman should have taken some steps in the matter. Mr Booth —Air Mayor: Have you any resolution to put before us ? The Chairman—lt is not usual for tho chairman to propose resolutions. Mr Booth could really not see what possible objection there could be to the local bodjes carrying on the distribution of the charitable aid. They would hive to pay in any case. If they did not agree to distribute the money they would have tho amount deducted from their subsidies. Hence, he really could not see what the chairman was opposed to. Mr Walter agreed with the Mayor of Sydenham. Indeed he thought if the local bodies took the matter in hand temporarily they might reduco the cost very considerably by striking off many improper recipients of charitable aid. Ho trusted tho City Council of Christchurch would see the common sense arguments of the Mayor of Sydenham.

The chairman said that the City Council refused to accept the propositions of the Government in their present shape. They declined to take up the management c,f the charitahle institutionq i,ntil the Government had, settled tho 'w'Uolo matter on a sound basis. The City Council were quite agreed with the necessity of local management of theso institutions, but if these were taken over before legislation had been assured there would be no spur to tho Government to obtain legislation. It must also be recollected that the subsidies would not iaot, and the expenditure was assured,. ' Mr Booth objected to suoh an expression of opinion being \ised in the meeting. The Chairman said that it was the opinion of thoughtful men and members of the Assembly that these subsidies must cease. Even the subsidies to Sydenham would cease. Mr Booth must again protest against such an expression of opinion at tho meeting. It was quite unpr'-neebntod. Mr Wailkev ' moved—" That, tho Government be requested by tho chairman to introduce the necessary measures In the next Parliament to carry out the views of the last Conference with regard to the carrying on of hospitals and charitable aid." Mr Allwright seconded the motion. Mr Booth hardly thought this went far enough. He should like to see the " and that the local bodies be requested" to make provision for the distribution of charitable aid'in.the meantime." It seemed to him that the idea* of the Christohurch City

Council had been imported very freely into the discussion.

The Chairman —And of the Sydenham Council also,

Mr Walker objected to the addendum proposed by Mr Booth being put on to his resolution. It might be put as a separate resolution.

The Chairman said that ho desired to point out that the Selwyn County Council, the Ashley County Council, and the Akaroa County Council were unable to distribute charitahle aid, as they had no money. Mr Blackett said that Rangiora had only just been made a municipality, and had no means to contribute towards charitable aid. The motion of Mr Walker was then put and carried

Mr Blackett said that he desired to see the hospitals entirely dissevered from the charitable aid. It was right that the cost should be distributed amongst the Road Board districts in proportion to the population and number of cases coming therefrom. Mr Booth moved—" That the Mayors of Christchurch, Sydenham, Rangiora, and Kaiapoi, form a committee for making provision for the dispensing of charitable aid temporarily." This seemed to him to be the natural outcome of their meeting that day. As regarded the carrying out of the management of charitable aid, he threw the responsibility on the Mayors of the boroughs. The Chairman —I shall distinctly refuse to take the responsibility of dispensing the fund.

Mr Blackett —I must also decline. We have no money. Mr Booth Baid he could not understand why the Mayor should object. He had stated that they had to find the money either way. The Chairman—l again say Mr Mayor, that individually as Mayor I decline to allow my name to go there. I have no objection to your making it the Council. Mr Blackett—As representing Rangiora I may say we have no money, and the County of Ashley has not accepted the Act. Mr Booth —Well, we will strike out Rangiora. The Chairman—Well, how is it to be carried on in Rangiora ? Mr Booth—That is nothing to do with us. Wo who can carry it on will do so. The Chairman —But if we omit Rangiora and Ashley and Selwyn we shall have only half the work done. I understood you, Mr Booth, that you had a general scheme, but this only deals with a portion. Mr Walker would suggest that the resolution should include all the local bodies. That the resolution should recommend all the local bodies to take the distribution of the charitable aid temporarily. Mr Booth explained that the resolution was intended to relieve the Christchurch City Council of a part of the burden. After some discussion, it wa9 moved by Mr Booth, and seconded by Mr Walker—" That in the opinion of this meeting the different local bodies Bhould make provision for the distribution of charitable aid as a temporary measure until the Government give effect to the previous resolution," which was agreed to.

The chairman was requested to forward both resolutions to the Grdverimmt and the local bodies.

The meeting terminated with a vote of thanks to the Mayor of Christchurch as chairman.