POST-SESSIONAL SPEECHES

Globe, Volume IX, Issue 1283, 30 April 1878, Page 3

POST-SESSIONAL SPEECHES

MR STEYENS AT THE ODDFELLOWS' HALL. Mr E. C. J. Stevens, one of the members for Christehurch City, addressed his constituents at the Oddfellows' Hall last night. The body of the hall was well filled, and on the platform were the Hons. E. Eichardson and G. Buckley, Dr. Tnrnbull, Messrs E. A. Loughnan, A. Saunders, W. S Moorhouso, M.H.E., F. Hobbs, andM. B. Hart. Mr Stevens, who was receivca with applause, briefly moved that, in tho absence of the Mayor of Christehurch, Mr Wynn Williams tako tho chair. The chairman said that those present were aware from the advertisement calling them together that Mr Stevens, one of tho members for Christehurch City, had invited them for the purpose of laying before them his view 3. He was quite sure that a gentleman holding the honourable position of their representative would be listened to with attention whether his speech was quite in accordance with their views in every particular or not. It was a very important occasion, as Mr Stevens was about to give them a history of the last session, and to say something about the very important questions which would probably be- brought before the country next session; the legislation in which promised to be of va3t importance as affecting the country for many years to come. After again claiming a patient hearing for Mr Stevens, ha called upon that gentleman to address the meeting. . Mr Stevens then said—Mr Chairman and gentlemen, before proceeding to the discussion of those very large questions to which the chairman has referred as being in the future, I will ask your kind attention to some remarks, which I shall make as brief as I can, with reference to the history of what occurred in the House of Representatives during last session. And the first and most important measure to which I will refer is that of Education. On this I havo to congratulate mo«t heartily this constituency on the almost complete satisfaction of their desires on the important subject of primary education. H you will cast your memories back to the last election, you will remember that you said that your wish was that education should be free, compulsory and undenominational, and when !rou come to read the Education Act passed ast year you will find that if it is not altogether exactly what you desired, it is free, compulsory, and secular. It may bo said, therefore, that the views of this constituency, as expressed at the last election, have been almost entire y carried into effect. I am happy to say that I have been able to act my part in the passing of this BUI, in accordance with the pledges I gave at my election. I know that there arc some in tho country who think that eduction should not be free I am entitled to my opinion, which coincides with that of the rest of the community, and I say that by making education free at the expense of the State, a very important achievement has been made, and that in future times the benefits derived from this will be absolutely beyond value. Therefore I heartily congratulate you upon the results of the last session as to primary education. I will be a 3 brief as I possibly can, and now proceed to the next subject, which is the Land Bill. This is a Bill with respect to which it has been said that it was right and just, owing to the fact of a certain class of the community—e.-pecially in this part of the country—having obtained advantages over the rest of the people, that his Excellency the Governor should have beeu invited to give his veto against its completion. I feel this statement to be a charge against mysolf and the other members of the House who enjoy the confidence of the public here. I shall speak of this, I trust, without any passion or any undue earnest ness. I should like to draw your attention to the principle of deferred payments. I may say that for many year 3 past I have been very strongly in favor of selling Crown lands upon the deferred payment system. In 1871, when I stood for tbe Selwyn election, and was beaten by only one vote, as some of you may remember, I strongly advocated deferred payment for land, and I did so because I had become aware from my professional experience that persons whose means were limited would be largely benefited by such a system, as it would leave every one who bought on deferrod payments his own money in hand with which to improve his ground, and he woul 1 thus obtain all the advantage that would arise from it at a much less price than ha could if he were compelled to borrow money from a private capitalist. Had I been returned at that election —yon will remember I was rejected on the question of a grain duty—l should have.introduced a measure into the House for the salo of Crown lands on deferred payments, because I believe it would have saved the settlers fromhaving to borrow money at Colonial rates, and would havo made those who had to buy land in small quantities much better off than they now are. I think it would be interesting to you if I made pome remarks upon the deferred payment system generally, and then upon that system a 3 provided in the Act passed last session. It is now possible for any person to purchase land, on the principle set out in that Act, for fifty per cent, more than the upset price without interest, no rent being charged. If he resides on the land he can purchase on deferred payments. It reßts with the Government to proclaim land as purchasable on this system or not. It is an administrative act which they have the power to do generally, I Bay this because I 6aw in the newspapers that someone asked that I should explain how it was that Government did not proclaim land as open on deferred payment. I say it is perfectly free to them to do so. There is another principle—the sale of pastoral lands in 1882—by this not less than 500 acre 3 or more than 5000 acres can be declared by the Government open for sale as pastoral laud on deferred paymeuts, also with the condition of residential occupation for a cetainterm, and piyment by degrees, the whole being subject to auction. In tho event of my not having sufficiently explained this to the satisfaction of everybody here, I shall be much obliged if a question is put to me on the roint. Now we come to the run question. It has been said that an undue advantage has been gained by the squatters in Canterbury, and it has been Btated, altogether erroneously, that the representatives of this part of the country have acted in an unfair manner, in a manner calculated to give the squatters an advantage over the other classes of the community. I would a k you to look back to the time of the last election. In this hall I then stated my views to 800 people, who cordially concurred with them. These views were as follows—that the pre-emptive rights should terminate in 1880, when the current term expires. The Land Act of 1877 makc3 them terminate in 1880, when if they are not purchased they willhave to be abandoned. That then has been carriedinto effect. I also urged upon this constituency that they should consider whether we should do more than leave the public lands absolutely open fvr sale. They said no; they would have no fixity of tenure, but would get the best rent ihey could from whoever would be willing to apply for it. They thought the best men to hold the runs—that is tho men who would give the best rent for them—would be the present holders, because the stcck on the runs it was likely would be realised only by degrees, and it was fair to givo them reasonable opportuui'ies for realising. That opinion was stated in my speech, and other candidates, who wero afterwards elected, adopted the same viow. The majority of the public were therefore favorablp to that view. Another advantage has been gained by this Act, namely, that whereas the squatter was formerly ontitled to hold the land, at a price to be fixed, until it was sold, he has now to give it up ten years after 1880, aud what is more, there is in this Bill the principle of reserving lands for pastoral purposes after the year ISSi. How is it possible that there should bo anything like a continuance of the tenure to the disadvantage of the public when the Government of the day can if they please j-eserve tho whole pasture land of this province of Canterbury which is unsold for the purpose of disposing of it by deferred payments? If they think it desirable they can take tho runs after 1882; and it is still open to them to reserve the land for any public purposes as before. I s it right or just that wo should be accused of having preferred the interests of tho squatting classes to the interests of tho rest of the community? For myself I can say I have no intereft in squatting, nor havo most of the other members in this part of Canterbury. Our interest hat) been to keep the land of the public open for the public for whoever

liked to pay the price for it, and in the meantime to get the best rent we could for it _ I feel so confident of the soundness of this position that I foel I can leavj it with safety in your hands. Yon must _ feci after tho arguments for and against it that this was tho best course to take. I h ive to say then, and T do say with regret, that this is tho only ground upon which the will of the Legislature has been sought to lie set aside. It is very serious thing when the Legislature has once decided upon a question tha 1 ; the representative of the Queeu should be invited to put his veto upon tin will of tho public, as expressed by their representatives. I now como to another thing, of the past —tho position of the Atkinson (Government. I feel that I should give some account or statement with regard to that and the termination of their holding of office. You elected me— and many others were similarly elected—in this part of the country for the purpose of carrying iuto effect the abolition of tho provinces. You decided that the abolition of tho provinces was for tho public interest. The Atkinson Government represented tho principle of abolition which they had inherited from Sir Julius Vogol. I supported them in carrying abolition into effect. But at tho beginning of last session it becamo evident that they were not in a position to carry other moasures, that their view of tho finances of tho country did not offer that security which there should bo in our affairs. I should like hero to p;;int out that abolition did this good if it did no other. I am not prepared to say that this was the only good it did. for it has created an incroased amount of public life, and called the attention of the public to tho legislation of the country. It brougt.t to tho knowledge of the public for the first time tho fact that certain portions of tho colony were able to pay their wiy, and several other portions were not, and that is a very important thing. It was found that the charges upon the land fund in most provinces wero so gr.at that tho land fund was absolutely unable to meet them, that in point of fact when the charges were all placed upon the land there was, save in the case of Canterbury, nothing left. Canterbury, owing to tho system of land sales here, was in possession of a surplus, a thing which did not exist anywhere else. What happened F Why, Major Atkinson, to meet tho difficulty he experienced in keeping things square, owingchiefly to his being compelled to meet iuterest on tho public works which had been going on from 1871, decided that the only course was to take a certain sum from Canterbury and from Otago, what was humorously called a "crossed cheque!" He proposed to tako from Canterbury .£58,000, and discount £109,000 from the land fund of Otago, which wa3 to be paid when possible In addition to this cause for dissatisfaction certain Bills introduced by the Atkinson Government were received unfavorably, and there were of course a great many sins which Governmens all are sure to have to answer for sooner or later. Tho Government was clearly unable to carry its measures—it succumbed, and had to go oat, as you know. I wish to say this. We are met here in a spirit of absolute fairness, and we are bound to look at these thing 9 with that impartiality which the lapse of time gives. I must then say that the Atkinson Government worked extremely _ hard for the public service, and perhaps a time will come when tho public will say that they might have had a worse Government. They have gone, however, and we have their successors. I wish now to refer to the action of the Middle Party. I may say that as I understand it—and I am perfectlv informed upon the subject—whatever the result of the action of the Middle Party was, the intention was to get rid of the Atkinson Government, and form a Government from the Middle Party. And I have so much respect for tho members who formed that _ party, for their capacity and administrative ability, that 1 am very sorry they could not manage to so far agree as to be able to stand by themselves and form an administration of their own. But it was not so. All I know is this, that they had no intention that the present Government, as now constituted, should be formed as tho result of their action. If it should be that some of them were a little more ambitious than tho circumstances justified I cannot say. They did not succeed however, and the consequence wa3 that the recognised Opposition took their place. I think it will not be out of place if I now veuture to make one or two remarks upon the present Government and tho attitude which I think should bo preserved towards them, and in doing so I must say, very briefly and plainly, that I for one am exceedingly indisposed to do anything to cause the removal of that Government from offico at the present time. I think their measures should be fairly considered. Thoy should havo an opportunity of introducing whatever they think will be for tho benefit of the country, and the country should havo an opportunity of considering what they propose. 1 believe the country is thoroughly tired of the party strife carried on in the Legislature last year. I can only say this for myself, that no one is more thoroughly tired of it than I am. It is to my mind absolutely dreadful to think of the stoppago of public business, of social measures of thelargost importance, by the party spirit imported into everything, to the exclusion of reason and all thought of the interests of the colony. There must be party strife at times, otherwise a Government would be continuously in offico, but I do hope that tho House and the colony will como definitely to the conclusion that until parties are formed upon distinct principles—[Hear, hear]—tho administration of the country, its finance, and social measures which tend to the securing of tho happiness of the people, should be the first consideration. So far as my conduct during tho last session is concerned, I don't think anyone can charge me with having wasted public time or having assisted in the wrangling which goes on in that Legislature. Every public criticism of a public man is of importance, and every public question which appears in the newspapers shouid be answered by the public man to whom it is put, if he can answer it. I allude now to a question put to me by the " Lyttelton lixcs." They said that they would like to know whether 1 considered the Legislature as at present constituted satisfactory. I say, in answer to that question that there is plenty of ability in that Legislature, but owing to the want of clearness of definition between parties, and to other things not necessary to mention, there is a most unsatisfactory condition of affairs in the House, and I hope that this will soon be remedied, otherwise I greatly fear that the public business will be very much interfered with, and even laid aside. Let me now allude br efly to the subject of finance. The land fund of the colony has been brought into one common stock. As 1 have stated before, Major Atkinson proposed that the land fund should be pattly taken for the purpose of making up deficiencies. The present Government have brought it all into the common stock, localising in the place where it ri-es only 20 per cent of the land fund. I know that there is and ought to be a strong fcelingiipon this question, but it is my duty as a public man to put this before you in the light in which I think it should be put, and I am going to do so. There was a deficiency in the finance of the colony which must be covered somehow or other. The interests of the different localities of course entered very largely into this question. What I say is this: It is perfectly true that the present Government seized tho land fund, but I am not for any party purpose for one instant to throw dirt upon them for what they have done. I will show you why. When the Act was passed, which deprived or rather did away with any possible interest in the land fund on the pu-t of the boroughs and the old districts, though the old districts did not quite lose all interest, because they still had a small interest in it, the question must arise, should they relinquish their land fund, or submit to taxation? I think you wil see this at once. If the land fund had not been brought into tho common stock, the people of this city and of the surrounding districts would of necessity havo had to pay, in order that certain other districts, where the land was unsold, should participate, according to the law, in the land fund. Tho people of thi3 city would havo had to pay more taxes than otherwise would bo required, in order that those other districts should get the benefit of the land fund. The older districts and cities and boroughs would have had to suffer. I wish to put this consideration before you as one of some value. It is perfectly truo that tho present Government havo brought that fund into the common stock, but it is also troe that if tbey had not done so they would have had to find other means for covering the deficiency, and that would have been, 1 suppose, additional taxation. I wish, then, to say that this should not be thrown at the present Government as altogether a crime. But there is one point as regards tho manner in which it was done to which I would allude. I urged in my place in the House that it should not be done—considering that th« Middle Island had enjoyed the revenue from land, a revenue which they considered their own, for many years, and which they looked upon as almost sacred—l urged that it should not be done until tho constituencies had had an opportunity of exprosnng an opinion upon it; but the rapid eal'S which had taken place in this province excited the cupidity of other portions of the colony. That cupidity was at the bottom of the whole thinpr. Wo were selling our land freely, and our fund was enormously out of proportion to that of other parts of tho country. Wo might, however, have preserved the land fund, at all events for a time, until the constituencies had expreaeed thoir opinion upon the question, but for the attitude taken up by the

members for Otago. Thoy had been our allies on the land fund question up to lat session, but then they threw us over. They went in fur tho communism of the land fund, and when their votes went against us wo knew there wa3 an end of tho matter. Having gone over these few points I como now to the policy of tho present Government. Of course I must tako thoir policy from their public utterances so far as it has beon made known in tho House of Representatives. Tho first question is representation, manhood suffrago, and the distribution of seats. I think tho most important thing, when considering _ manhood suffrage, is to understand what is exactly meant, and then wo shall bo able to form an opinion upon that point. First, I should like to paint out that no one in this country, as far as I know, has ever advocated manhood suffrage without registration in some shape or form. So far as registration is conccrne'J therefore, wc shall gain nothing by manhood suffrage. I think tho best thing I can do is to quota the Constitution Act, and with your permission I will do so. [The spoaker here quoted from the Constitution Act as to tho qualification of voters.] That is our presont system. In addition to that we have this—we havo a lodger franchise. It has not beon taken advantago of very much I boliovo, but it exißts in the Act of 1875, by which a person of 21 years of age and upwards, who lives in lodgings of the clear annual value of .£lO, shall have the right of registering himself as an elector. I pass over the question of the form of registration, such as tho ratepayers' roll, which has been found to be ineffective. But we havo the miner's right. 1 think six months' possession of a right entitles a minor to vote in tho saino way. I would go on to tho Maori—th- Native vote. The Maoris have a vote which is of ' In nature of manhood suffrage. Really it is a most extraordinary thing that this kind of qualification should havo existed so long. It was, whon brought in, intended, as I understood, to ba temporary, but it ha 3 boon in existenco for ten years, and appears to be permanent. There are four Maori members, and tho Natives have the right not only of voting for representatives of their own, but they can register for votes in European districts where they live. I think they have a good deal the best of it in this respect. But that is not all. Do you know what tho Government are going to do ? They are going to give three more representatives to the Maoris, who are to have seven instead of four, and if you want a proof of that you have only to refer to tho speech of the Native Minister, Mr Sheehan. Whether you have manhood suffrage or not, the Maoris arc going to have the right of voting independent of any qualification. [A voice—So they ought.] So they ought. I will ask you to consider whether they ought. These interesting aboriginals have tho power to come in and vote for a Rating Act for you. Their constituents don"t pay rates. Don't you imagine, however, that they will not walk into the" lobby and vote for direct taxation, or any other Bill which doos not affect themselves. I hen we shall not say " and so they ought." I say they ought not, and no earthly consideration shall ever induce me as a public man to vote for this increase. I will toll you what I think ought to be done. I think we ought to extend the franchise in this manner, so as to include all persons who are bona fulc residents in the couutry whether they have property or not, provided that they are really settlers. Where there is a large family for instance, and grown-up sons are living with the family, I think there ought to bo no hesitation in extending tho franchise to them, and I have not the least doubt that this will be carried. But when we come to this that we are going in for ono, residential vote, and only one vote for each person—and that is the policy given by the Government in their tpeeches—l will give my view on that. What doe 3 one residential vote mean? It moans that any one in this city who has property in another district by virtue of inheritance, or by having purchased it with the fruit of his liar 1 work for years, i 3 not to havo a vote for such property unless he lives upon it. I say this is a policy, and a very large one; but the fact of its being so is no particular reason why it should be accepted, and I do ask you to consider whether you, who may be in the enjoyment of a right to vote—it may be at Akaro i, or Titnaru, or Ashley—whether yon are prepared to give up that right absolutely. For that is what this policy means: wc have it in black and white. I say 1 do not believe this constituency is going to adopt that. I will not; and rather than do so I will—as my friend Mr Olkvier used to sayrather retire into the cooler shade of respectability. I have been a Liberal all my life, and always understood that Liberalism gave rights to people who before had been deprived of them, but when it comes to depriving people of rights which they before possessed, it is a most extraordinaryimifcation of a liberal policy. [Applause.] I may say that my own view is this—That the great object to keep in view is to have all classes that are permanently settled in the country represented, and it is with that view that I took tho course I did last session, a course which I hope will not be altogether without result. I asked the Government whether in the introduction of any voting Act they would extend the hours for voting to nino o'clock at night. You know that that means that all the working meu who may be kept in private employment, or in public on the railways, or anywhere else, may como in after their hour. 3 of labor and vote. I will tell yon the answer I got. "It was a most important question; that the Government would take it into their most earnest consideration and that it would not bo lost sight of." I hope that it will not, and if lean help it it shall not; if that Bill is brought up I shall take care that it is uot —and perhaps I shall if the Bill is not brought up. Now wc come to the question of the distribution of seats a very important question. I jhavo come to tho conclusion that the distribution of Feats must be on the basis of population. [Hear,, hear.] I don't see any other way. I don't believe, however, that cities and towns will for some yeirs to come get a much larger representation. Wc must wait for the census returns before wo cau form any conclusions, but I believethat un'ler any circumstances the thing will result in an adjustment on the basis of population. I am not in the slightest degree afraid that the country is going to be swamped by any policy of the kind. That is a kind of bogey set up by some people who are always looking iiit for a dreadful accident. There is one point which has puzzled me more than anything I know, and I should like to obtain the opinion of this constituency upon it. I don't know how that opinion is to be got by an individual like myself. It is whether the representation of this city should bo continued as it is at present, the constituency comprising the city and suburbs. What I wish to know is whether the members should sit for the city and suburbs combined, or the city should have members and the Buburbs outside have members of their own. That is a question to which, as yet, as far as I am aware, public attention has not been drawn. It is one of considerable importance. [A Voice: "The present system is wrong."] By that I consider that you think the suburbs should be separately represented. [Hear, haar.l I think there is a good deal in that. My own view is in that direction, but I don't wish to force my opinion on the public. I will say this much, however, that I hope a clear expression of opinion will be given by the public in the matter, and when thi3 is done I think you will say that my idea [that they should consider the matter now is a correct one. The question as I need hardly tell you is one of very great public importance and the constituency should be prepared to give it consideration, so that when the Bill comes down it may not be left until too late. Gentlemen, I will now refer to the incidence of taxation. The proposal of the present Government on this question so far as we can gather—a proposal which I tako leave to think will have to be modified very considerably, for reasons I shall give you liter on—is to take .£359,000 off the customs revenue, mainly off the articles of sugar and tea, and tho commonest articles of drapery, such things in fact a 3 may be called the necessaries of life [Cheers] and to replace this with an income or property tax. [Cheers.] Now this is a most important question, and I am goin? to givo you my opinion upon the proposal of the Government as the colony is now situated. The state of the finances, as stated by Sir George Grey in the absence of his colleague, was that there was .£138,000 deficiency. To this must be added the votes granted later in tho session amounting to £I IO,OOO or thereabouts, which brings it to within a thousand or so of .£250,000 or a quarter of a million of money. Now I don't know what the Government have spent during the recess ; we shall not know that until the Parliament again assembles, but I believe we shall find that there is a very great deficiency. It i 3 as I have said impossible at present to calculate that deficiency, but suppose it to be still further added to by taking .£350,000, it then becomes a question of addition. Add tho estimated deficiency of last year —which, I have shown you, will amount to nearly a quarter of a million—as nearly as I can get approximately—to that to to caused by the taking thi3 sum, and the deficiency does indeed become a large one. Now, gentlemen, I am not at all opposed to the taxation of absentees, and of property generally. I advocated this years ago ; but, gcntlemer, I wish to point out to you that the finances of the colony havo considerably altered since then. If you a°.k me now if you can put .£IJOO,OOO or if sugar and tea only are takeu off. JBloo,ooo ou to property with safely to our finance, I say I

don't believe yon can. I ear more than that; when the Government comes to meet the House, I say, thsvy will not, nor will any other Government do it. You wait, gentlemen, and see if they will do it; that's tho best proof. I don't think they will try. It is a'l very well to say you would like to do it. but when you c >rao face to face with the difficulties which besot the finance of New ZeaLnd, it can't be done. [A Voice—" Take it off cea and sugar."] Well, let ns say tako it off tea and sugar, but i cannot agree with you, and I will tell you why. By so doing yon are relieving the very people who can best afford to pay. [A Voice —" Tax property and absentees "] Gentlemon, if you tako the tax off tea and sugar, you relieve rich people, because there is no moro wasto of these articles anywhere than on runs and largo estates. I am surprised that tho rich do not go in for it, as they would save more than they lose. This is the aspect of this question as it appears to me. Does anyone know what is expressed by direct taxation ? People talk, write, and Bpeak on the subject, but thoy do not give yon any really sound basis on which to go, because they havo no data. When they say tako it off Customs and put it on property, pooplo are talking about what thoy don't know, as there is no information at present on tho question in tho colony. I have a great respect for speakers or writers on these subjects, but I believo that they speak without book when they talk about putting theso large sums on property. If they wero in tho position of a Colonial Treasurer, they would soon find this out. Then, gentlemen, there is another class—the gold-mining districts. Whilst our land revenue, loss 20 per cent, goes into tho common stock, they havo got all which, by the legislat.on of 1858, was land fund from gold revenue; this is now expendable wherever it is raised. We only get 20 per cent, on our land revenue to make roads, &c, whilst they get all. When the proposition came up to tako off these duties, it was noticeable that it came from a goldfields member, and received tho support of all the goldfields members. That is a remarkable circumstance. Now tho fact is that the goldfields are drawing from tho land which they cut up for their operations some £ 1,400,000 worth of gold, which is taken out of tho soil of tho country. We expend very large suui3 on theso districts which havo also all the goldfields revenue for expei> diture on public" works. Besides which they give a great charge on the general revenue in the shape of Wardens and Magistrates' Courts, &c They now go in for a chango in the incidence of taxation on the necessaries of life, and it strikes me that it is time that the settled districts considered if this state of things should be allowed, and whethor it is at all desirable that they should be allowed to go free. If you tako off the tax on the necessaries of life the goldfields population will go absolutely free from taxation, except for luxuries or ;;erhapsgrog. Now, I ask you if it is right; is this a desirable condition of affairs ? There is no question about it; this is absolutely true. If the proposals of the Government as to the change of the incidence of taxation is carried out they will go absolutely scot free. [A Voice—" Don't they pay licenses?"] Licenses, gentlemen, are goldfields revenue, and I have already told you what is done with that. I am not speaking against tho interests of goldfields' communities at all, but this is a proportion which affect 3 them particularly, and I ask you if the finances of tho colony are to be put in jeopardy to suit the interests of any particular class, because I say they should not. [Hear, hear.] This is one question a 3 connected with the incidence of taxation, and I will now ask you to consider another. Our land fund is now brought into the common stock; npon it we have to rely for our expenditure. It is necessarily diminished by every acre sold or reserved, which means so much less left; so much les3 colonial revenue. Now the view I take of this matter is that the greatest care should be observed in decreasing the revenue power of the country. If the public works ai e to go on we must very certainly add to our burdens by the expenditure on every mile of r iihvay made. The railways are now paying something like ,£120,000 a year, and the expenditure has been some eight or nine millions. The exact amount I do not know, a 3 the amount expended since 30th Juno last is not known. Now if you compare these fignres you will see that there is a large loss, not a loss on the whole, because we have the increased advantages of communication, &c, but a loss on revenue. We are paying out of revenue for the extension of railways, and as we have now pretty woll gone through the settled districts, any further extension means a still further charge on the revenue for so doing. I don't say that this is not right. I have said since 1870 that it is idle to expect all our lines to pay interest on costof construction,the interest amounting to .£5 2s 6d per centum. But I say this, if we arc going to impoverish our revenue by £200,000 or £250,000, then you mast necessarily curtail your public works. There are one or two dangers in connection with the finance of the colony to which I desire to direct your attention. There is first the danger of small works for counties, &c, being brought up to the general Legislature for appropriation. I shall perhaps be told that but for abolition these could be dealt with by the Provincial Councils. I don't know that this would have been any better. The Provincial Councils would have had to have got tho money somewhere, and get it very probably from the general Legislature of the colony. But I say this, if members bring these matters to the general Legislature and get an appropriation of £2OO here and .£SOO there' expended on local works, you will find that any amount of taxation you may impose will not do, and that you must curtail your public works. I hope that public opinicn will be against this, or we shall get into very serious difficulties. Tho best cure I can suggest is to get the Counties Act iuto active operation all over the colony. If you get this done ycu will have these works carried out by the Couuty Councils, and a spirit of pelf-reliance inculcated in the colony which we never shall have while we havo to go to tho general Legislature for such works as I have spoken of, and feel that we are dependent upon them for thrir construction. [Cheers.] I may say there is no necessity why adopting the Counties Act should destroy the Koad Boards. When the Counties Act is brought into force they might sti.l continue. They have done very good work, and I shall like to see them continue. On the question of taxation, I shall be prepared to ; support any reasonable proposition. I want to see that the revenue power of the colony is not impaired or public works stopped. But I say that it is utterly impossible that so large an amount as I have read out to you this evening should be thrown on the property of the colony. I do not believe it ever will be proposed, so, perhaps, it is useless to discuss it any farther. I may saythat I do not consider the proposalfor an acreage tax a desirablo one, and I will tell you why. The quantity of land a man holds is, in this country particularly, no indication of wealth. It may be poor land, or it may be mortgaged. '] ho man with 1000 acres may be a richer man than the one with 6000 acre \ of the character I have spoken of. In thee days it is, 1 am sorry to say, too much tho fashion to connect the actions of public men with their private interests. Kow, I may say at once that an acreage tax will not aft'ect me at all any more than the legislation on runs affects me. So far as the acreage tax goss, I am speaking against it because I believe it wiildo a very great amount of injustice. If we require taxation, then I say let us all pay it, and let us all have a hand in it. [Cheers.] Don't let one man get off because he holds a smaller acreage than another. [Hear, hear.] [A voice—" Let every man pay according to his means." j Precisely so. I accept the position. What we have got to do is to stave off taxation as long as posbiblo, but when it is necessary let it be general. [Cheers. | I can't help thinking when people come to me and tell mo they feel the Is 9d rate very hard _ that it will not bo a very pleasant thing for the tax gatherer to come round and say " Mr So-and-so, I want another shilling." I don't think that will be pbasant. ! Hear, hear.] If we are going to be taxed let us meet it with taxation on general property of all sorts. If 1 havo got shares in any undertaking in which ray money is invested, let me pay a tax on them as well as on any other description of property. [Hear, hear.] But the taxation should not be of an exhaustive character—and I will t 11 you why. Because if it is made so sevcro that it would be, as it wero, a heavy burden on the country, we cannot do this without injuring the credit of the colony as a whole. Every one of us, whether working for wages or engaged in business or commerce, is interested in keeping up tho credit of the colony, and if anything is done to injure it we sh'ill bitterly regret the hasty act which led to it. We ought to keep a reserve of taxable power, and for that reason I urge that taxation should not be of a crushing character, but only taxation to meet the exigencies of finance; and that is, in my opinion, what should be desired by the public in the present position of the colony. [Hear, hear ] Now let me say here that I look upon an income tax as a very undesirable thing. I believe if the tradesmen and merchants have to allow thenbooks to be inspected and their trade looked into by the tax collector, or pay a certain sum as compounding for the tax, the people will find it most inquisitorial. This I saw done in London in 1871, and I say, gentlemen, don't let us come to that here. [A Voice : "Let us hive a property tax."] That is exactly what I was advocating just now, that a sentral property tax should be imposed to. keep the finance straight, I pointed

out that if taxation was necessary, it shonld be imposed generally, and that sharos held in public institutions should be taxed as well as land. [Cheers,] Gentlemen, lam anxious not to tako up too much of your time, and will, therefore, bring my remarks to a close. As I have said, I believe that the great thing in finance is to cure a deficiency by any moans so as to preserve our credit, and I don't hesitate to say that this should be done. I wish to seo tho Counties Act worked to the best advantage, and brought in as soon as possible, which I believo would get rid of the difficulty of having small works demanded at the hands of tho general Legislature. I wish to see public works, not stopped, but carried on with some degree of moderation and deliberation, not hurried on as has hitherto been the case. Thero has been—and every public man will now admit that this is the case—too much haste ; the works would be far better constructed if more time were to bo taken with them. [Hear, hoar.j Of course I am aware of this, that tho public demanded them in a hurry, and tho Government of the day had no alternative but to consent. I want to see our public lands sold gradually, in order to aid our financo without sacr ; firing the land to too great an extent. Here is tho land fund of Canterbury being gradually oxpended, going into the genoral chest except the 20 per cont., but by the Land Sale 3 Act of last year, the land in parts of the colony, and by administrative action in Otago, is being shut up from sale. Now wh at lam afraid will bo the result is this, that land will be reserved for tho localisation of public works thero, while our land fund is going away from us here. This is not fair—[Hear, hear]—and I hope the Legislature will see into it. Ido not for one moment grudge the prosperity of any part of the colony, but I fear that part of tho land ia Otago is being kept back from going into the general chest, whilst ours is being gradually taken in there. [A Voice—" How do you account for this now that we have only one Government?"] I account for this from the fact that acts are done locally and not generally, and that everybody does not realise we are now all one. [Hear, hear.] Another point which I hope to see carried out and upon which I trnst tho constituency will speak out, i 3 the connection by rail of the West Coast of this island with ns. [Cheers. 1 lam afraid that local feeling and influence will go far to prevent this. I need not point out to yon that this being done, will have a very great influence on trade here. [Hear, hear.] I don't say that tho feeling I have alluded to is very prominent, but there are some indications of it, and I think that an effort will be made to divert that trade from its natural channel, which is here. [Cheers.] When I road the fact that our land fund is going into the chest, and that other lands are held back, I cannot help thinking that efforts will be made to get the West Coast railway in that direction also. [Hear, hear.] I have to thank you for your kind attention to mo this eveuing. I should have liked to have spoken to you eloquently, but I have done so fairly and in a business-like manner. I havo now served you for two years, and so long as I believo we are in accord I shall continue to do so. [Cheen.j This place is my home, and my efforts shall always bo directed towards furthering your interests. I have little party feeling. I want to see the Government of the country carried on properly. Anything like factious opposition to the Government is far from my thoughts. I wish to seo every opportunity given to them to develop their measures. They are now in an inchoate form, and judging from the indications in public speeches, must be largely modified, especially as legards finance. Let us wait and see if wo get any better Government than we have had before. My great hope is that tho Legislature will give up that feeling of party strife which besots every question, whether it be of local or general interest, and I trust next session to see a different feeling expressed there to what I have experienced during the past two years. [Loud cheers.]

In answer to que tions, Mr fctevens said that he did not propose that publie works should be carried on with a deficiency. There was a deficiency now, and what ho had said was this, that he wanted to see public works carried on with moderation, and the revenue supplemented with taxation when the necessity arose. The deficiency was by no means necessary to be permanent. When he said he wished public works carried on with moderation, ho meant that ho did not wish to see the revenue power exhausted. Every largo public work must bo carried on by loan, and to do this the revenue _ must be aided from time to time whan it was necessary. He had also stated that he hoped that the taxation would not be exhaustive. As regarded his reasons for opposing tho Local Option Bill of Mr Fox, they were that the Bill was loss satisfactory than that of Mr Stout. Hedid not oppose the Bill, he might say. Hebelieved in the principle of local option, and he had not agreed with Mr Fox's Bill because he did not give the power to the ratepayers. He had voted for the compensation clauses because, when the Legislature had granted a certain right to a class of tradesmen, who had expended large sums of money on buildings, it was only right that compensation should be given. As regarded the future, he would support a Bill giving the power of local option to the ratepayers, and also the compensation clauses. This was the opinion of a large nnmber of the members of the House, and of Sir George Grey. Where the Local Option Bill was iu force in a locality he thought the locality should pay tho compensation. It had been urged that the general revenue should pay this on account of the revenue arising from Customs duties, but on the other hand they must recollect that the boroughs received the fees for licenses. If the residents of any borough exercised their local option then they should furnish the compensation. An Elector—Will Mr Stevens say whether he is pledged to support Major Atkinson ? Mr Stevens—l am not pledged to any one. An Elector—Mr Stevens has said that he was in favor of deferred payments, but by his vote and that of another member for Christchurch, the Bill for deferred payments was thrown out.

Mr Stevens—l never did anything of the kind. Perhaps if we put it this way we shall get at whit the gentleman means. I will put it this way—Am I a thick and thin supporter of the present Government? An Elector—Well, that will do. Mr Stevens—Well, I am not a thick and thin supporter of the present Government. Mr Treadwell, amidst some uproar, came forward to put a question, whether the deficiency on the railways could bo met by the handing them over to local boards of management ? Mr Stevens could not see that the change of management would prevent loss Mr Treadwell would like to see local rating for tho losses on the railway. What was Mr Stevens' opinion on this ? Mr Stevens said he thought it would be a very undesirable state of things. Considering that the Amberloy-Waitaki line had cost some two and a-kalf millions, and that the revenue on the Christchurch section was about £06,000 per annum, he thought tho ratepayers would not like to pay up the deficiency. (Cheers.) Mr Milne would like to ask why Mr Stevens, in going in for abolition, had not first secured a general land law applying to all the colony. He considered that Mr Stevens was a simpleton for going in for abolition without conditions. Mr Stevens said that it was a positive fact that no man but an abolitionist would have been elected for Christchurch in 1876. [Oh, oh.] The reason why they could not do what Mr Milne said, was that in one part of the colony land was only worth 10s per acre, and sold very slowly at that; if, therefore, they were to put on £'l per acre and free selection where it would not sell at 10s per acre it would not at £2. Mr Milne wanted to see tho Canterbury regulations introduced all over the colony, but it could not bo done for tho reasons he (Mr Stevens; had given. It must be recollected that in many parts of the North Island tho land was not worth having, whilst in others perhaps it might be worth £5. As regarded the pastoral leases, respecting which a question had been handed up, the matter had been settled by Act. Ho should have stated in his speech that the rents to be paid by tho pastoral tenants after ISBO were to be fixed by the Waste Lands Board after due inquiry, end the minimum per sheep was I'd, and the maximum 2s. Therefore if the Waste Lands Board did their duty, the public would have as much protection as putting it up to auction. They must also remember that the land could be bought from under the feet of the tenant, ai.d as a matter of fact a large portion of the land had been so bought. Now, what would they be putting up to auction if they did so? Why, simply the possession of land which might be bought under their feet at any moment. Would any farmer buy that ? What was the value of such a tenure? Ho Eaid, nothing. As regarded representation, under the present law a man had the power of registering and voting iu every district in which he held land. Under the manhood suffrage as proposed, however, there would only be one residential vote, and not as now voting for ea'-h district in which property was held. A s he had stated before if they could not do without taxation, let it be general; let it be on land, shares, and all. He did not like taxation at all, but if they could not do without it then they should make it general, taxing land, shaves, &c. Why should a man with perhaps .£20,000 in shares, getting ah the protection of law, &C., escape being taxed, when a farmer with a small farm was obliged to pay ? This was unfair, and therefore be advocated if taxation were ntceesary that the tax

should be general. His objection to an income tax was that it was inquisitorial. In principle the income tax was perhaps as fair a one as could be put on, but its collection was most objectionable to the general public. He was very much opposed to class legislation in all shapes. As regarded his vote on the Pastoral Leases Bill, as ho explained in his speech, it was no matter whether they pave a man an extension of ten or 100 years, while the Gove nment had the power of reviewing the rental imposed by the Waste Lands Board, and also of going to arbitration. He did not think that it would bo right to come to 'the constituencies, because in 1876 the public had agreed that the leases should bo extended, and, therefore, when the extension was surrounded with such restrictions as in the Act, it became a matter of no public importance whether ten or twenty years' extension of the licenses was given. (Cheers.) As regarded plural voting in various districts doing harm to the country districts, he just wanted to say that the principle was one under which they had exi«ted for many years and carried on the Government. He only proposed to carry on this principle with a few modifications. Ho did not think that the plurality of votes would swamp the country districts. Nor did he think there was any strong public demand for a change in this direction. As regarded the arrangements for charitable aid and the maintenance of hospitals, it seemed to him to be at present in a most unsatisfactory condition. Last session, tho Government introduced a Bill, which was the worst he ever saw. It was proposed to hand over the administration of hospitals and charitable aid to the subscribers of .£1 and upwards, and he thought this would have ben a most unsatisfactory stdc of tilings. [Cheers.] His idea was that the hospitals and charitable aid should bo managed by boards nominated by the municipalities and counties, which he thought would bo very satisfactory. When he saw hospitals in other parts of the country as well as in their own, left to no management whatever except the Government in Wellington, he thought it was eminently unsatisfactory. As regarded the incorporation of trade societies as at home, he might say that he hrA not had an opportunity of reading the Act. Therefore, it would be injudicious ef him to give an opinion on its applicability to New Zealand. If the gentleman who had asked the question wonld bring the Act to him [Mr Stevens], he would promise to consider the matter carefully and give his opinion on it. Mr Tombs asked whether the chairman would ask Mr Moorhouse if ho intended to address his constituents?

Mr Moorhouse said that, in answer to the question, he might say that it was his intention to address his constituents shortly. He had been ill for some three months, and had been here health Beeking. He might say that at present he was in a cave; ho had run into a hole not to join the Adullamites, but to consider over the present state of the colony. Like Mr Stevens, he was no man's follower. ["Oh, oh," and uproar.] He had been returned specially by the constituency to support the Lite Government. ["Oh, oh."] He appealed to them whether this was not so. But under present circumstances it was different. The ship in which he had embarked had foundered, and he now stood on the shore a free man. Whatever course he might take as a public man and their representative, h* might say he would, as in times gone by, do his duty to them. ["Oh, oh," and cheers.] Mr Williams said that he did not know whether the Chairman was to sit there all night. He had had a resolution handed to him which purported to be proposed by Mr Walker and seconded by Mr Andrews. Were these gentlemen present ? Mr Walker came forward and moved the following resolution —" That this meeting thanks Mr Stevens for his address, and requests him to give his entire support to the expressed policy of the present Government." [" No, no," and loud cheering.] A gentleman came out of the body of the hall and seconded the motion. Dr Frankish said that it was not often he addressed the public, but he could not refrain from doing so to-night. So far as the political opinions of Mr Stevens went, he did not know whether they ran in the same groove as his own, but he said this, that by parsing such a resolution they would bo doing a great wrong. He was going to ask them that evening not alone to thank Mr Stevens, but to express their opinion that he was the right man in the right place, and to oxpress confidence in Idm. [" No, no," and cheers.] Mr Stevens was a man of ability, and one who would do what was right, and he asked them to believe that Mr Stevens would support any measures which would be for the good of the people and of the country. [Cheers and hisses.] He would move a 9 an amendment—- " That this meeting thanks Mr Stsvens for his speech, and expresses confidence in him. Also, that it records its opinion that he is a fit and proper person to represent the constituency." [ Cbeer.-i.] Mr Ruddenklau briefly seconded the motion. Mr Treadwell spoke briefly in support of the original motion, but was received with great uproar. Ultimately the ch airman took a show of hands whether Mr Treadwell should be heard or not, when the voting was against Mr Treadwell, and he retired. The amendment was then put and carried amid acclamation. Mr Stevens said ho was exceedingly obliged to them for their vote of confidence, and hoped they would not have any cause of difference on any important question for a long time to come. He should endeavor as in the past so to perform his duty as to merit the confidence they had that evening re-expressed in him. Ho now begged to propose a vote of thanks to the chairman for his abb conduct in the chair. This, having been carried by acclamation, terminated the meeting. SIR W. FITZHERBERT AT THE UPPER HUTT. [By Telegbaph.] [peb pbeßß agency.] Upper Hutt, April 29. Sir Wm. Fitzherbert addressed a meeting of electors at the Oddfellows' Hall this evening. There was a good attendance. Sir W. Fitzherbert said a great deal too much had been made of that meeting. Articles had appeared representing that he was likely to lead a new party in order to displace the present Government, and soon after this meeting was called ; but he assured them tbere was nothing in it. Neither did ho meet them for the purpose of making a political manifesto. He merely met them in accordance with the good old custom of a representative periodically meeting his constituents. Still there were subjects he might speak of to them without violating the high duties of Speaker. If people were on the tiptoe of expectation to hear him deliver himself of someth'ng sensational, they would bo disappointed, as much as if they went to see the Derby, and saw the favorite run in bobbles. Since he last addressed his constituents a great political change hjd occurred — a revolution, he might say, and might also say conscientiously, that it wa<» not suitable. Certainly there was an appeal to the people, but it was a handicapped affair, and there was no doubt the action of the Assembly was confirmed by the people. Most unwisely, ho thought, because it took from the people the privilege of electing their chief officer. In no form of Government were broader democra'ic principles laid down than in the constitution that the people deliberately renounced. Had the anticipations of those who deprived the people of their old and noble institutions been realised? No ! They expected bread and received a stone. He was not one who deprecated revolutions. Without revolutions thoy had not been so free as they were. But what thoy now wanted was something superior to replace tbat destroyed. That was not the case yet, and they must get something that was an improvement on that, destroyed. At one time the people of New Zealand knew something of the government of the colony ; but now throughout the length and breadth of the colony, there was nothing but mystery in the Government. "When he was Superintendent, it might be said his utterances were dictated by serf-interest. That was not the case now. He was cf the same opinion as t"ien. Ho would ask them in what direction was the tendency of those great and eloquent speeches which had been moving the hearts of the peop'e all over the colony lately, and he would answer, that it was anew phase (?) of democracy, which meant that the people were the fountain of all power. But here came the anomaly—how was it that tho gospel of democracy should be preached to people who so recently throw in the dirt one of the best democratic forms of government that ever existed ! It reminded bim of Madame Roland's exclamation, "Oh! democracy, what horrors have been perpetrated in thy name ! " He feared the people had given up the substance for the shadow. The Government now was something for people to gaze on and not to touch. Let the form of government be administered by the best possible persons, yet the people were more distant from it than" under the de>piscd form they cast from them. Ho hoped they would reflect soriously upon these things, although they must not think he had any desire, if he had the power, to bring back thsit which was. lost. They heard a great deal of Bulgarian atrocities, but if that people

were given a new Constitution to morrow they could not unde'stand it, and would soon lose it. A Constitution must grow up with a people. It was in Canterbury the conspiracy was formed that robbed them of their constitutional privileges : though, after doing so, they hesitated to accept the natural consequences of that revolution. He referred to the h.nd fund. They took 80 percent, onl", but they might as well have taken all. [The hon. gentleman here exhibited a coloured map of the North Island to show the ennrmous area of Native land uncultivated, as compared with the whole area of the island.] He regretted to see so many brown lines (Native land) coming down between the Manawatu and Upper Hutt. AH that laud had been bought by him, and, if Provincial institutions existed now, there would have bsea a railway through it, and 10,000 persons settled upon it. He meant no reflection upon any Government, either past or present, for it would be the same he feared with any Ministry, simply because the whole thing was a dead letter to them. All the work done in the (past in those matters had to be done over again, and all purchases had to be made over again. He had done his best to secure these lands for the province, but after thirtyseven years' settlement the road between Manawatu and Waikanae was as bad as on the first day they came to the island. But he did not complain of them; it was only of the system. What did a Minister from one of the provinces know of the requirements of another ? Nothing ! Their mind was blank to that outside their own district. After recounting all that had been done by himself in the direction of Hutt" Waikanae lines, he hoped Mr Chas. O'Neill would be soon appointed, and enabled to submit plans and estimates of the preliminary surveys by next session. They had been unduly kept back. While thy ctuli travel by rail nearly from one end of the South Island to the other, in the North the people of Wellington could go as far as Kaitoke. Tho thiDg was absurd. Eeferring to the work of Mr O'Neill and pointing out what ho considered the best line for the Wairarapa line, he said he predicted that the day would come when the present line would be abandoned, and Mr O'Neill's route be adopted. It was impossible for any amount of traffic to go over a gradient of one in fifteen. The Hon. gentleman quoted from the " Gazette" to show that last year Canterbury and Otapo raised alone over eight million bushels|of grain. To lookat that and at their own position now, it was simply appalling to think how much, spite of all their efforts, they were kept in the back ground.^ In reply to questions, he said, while he believed in manhood suffrage, he did not believe in loafer-hood suffrage. It must also be remembered that it was not always those who cried out most for manhood suffrage who were most liberal. The most horrid tyranny was sometimes perpetrated under these catchpenny cries of liberalism. To a man who was a man in the proper sense of the term, he would allow a vote, even if he was only eighteen year 3 old. But he objected to promiscuous m nhood suffrage. He failed to see why women should tot have votes. They were more entitled to them than tho men, who, after voting, often went home and kicked their wives.

Beiug asked whether he would support Sir G. Grey, Sir W. Fitzherbert said, whde the question was most improper to one in his position, he might speak hypofchetically as if he was a private member for the moment, and would say he would not bind himself to follow anyone. It was a vicious principle for candidates to pledge themselves to anybody. Circumstances changed, and men changed with them. A motion of confidence in Sir Wm. Fitzherbert was carried unanimously. Ho spoke for about two hours.