THE PREMIER IN CHRISTCHURCH.

Globe, Volume IX, Issue 1258, 19 March 1878, Page 3

THE PREMIER IN CHRISTCHURCH.

PUBLIC MEETING AT WOOLSTON. Pursuant to notice, Sir George Grey addressed a public meeting at Woolston last evening. There was a large attendance, the Hull being filled. On the motion of Mr Rowland Davis, Mr A. Duncan took the chair. The Chairman said that they had met there that evening to hear the Premier of New Zealand, and he felt sure the large audience present would give him a cordial reception and a patient hearing. [Cheers.] Before the Premier addressed them however their member, the Hon. J. T. Fisher, desired to say a few words, after which he would have the pleasure of introducing Sir George Grey to them. [Cheers.] The Hon. jT. T. Fisher, who was warmly received on coming forward, said —Mr Chairman and gentlemen,—The last time I had the honor of appearing before you as your representative, I considered it a great honour indeed. I now appear before you as a Minister of the colony of New Zealand, as well as your representative. [Cheers.] I am not going to make a speech to you this evening, because my hon. colleague, when he made me a promise to come to Canterbury also promised that he would address my constituents. [Cheers.] In taking office under his Government I may say I did so because I thought it would be a good thing for this district and the colony at large. [Cheers.] You must remember this, that I had no idea when I was here of joining the Ministry, and I will tell you why I thought it my duty to take my seat upon those benches. Gentlemen, if I had not done this you would not have been represented in the Ministry at all. I therefore thought that if I was a poor representative there it was better than none, [Cheers.] My hon. colleague will address you on the points of policy on which we shall stand or fall, and if wo do not carry those measures we shall appeal to the country, [Cheers.] The measures we propose to bring forward will bo on the subjects of the alteration of taxation, the alteration of representation, and manhood suffrage, the necessity for all of which have been strongly urged upon me by my constituents, and which I believe will be for the benefit of the colony at large. I will not detain you longer. I hope you will approve of my hon. colleague’s opinions, by which I, as a humble follower of his, will stand or fall, I little thought thirty years ago, when I saw Sir George first before I became a New Zealand colonist, that the day would come when I should have the honour of being a colleague of so renowned a man, [Cheers.] I have now much pleasure in introducing to you the Hon. Sir George Grey. [Cheers, j Sir George Grey, who was warmly received on rising, said that he found himself in their presence that evening with an unusual degree of pleasure, because to them he was indebted for a colleague—a gentleman who had shown great sagacity, and also a deep personal interest in the welfare of the colony. | Cheers.] On coming to take his seat in the New Parliament ho (Sir George) found on his right hand a gentleman whom he had never seen before. On asking who it was, he was told that it was Mr Fisher and their representative. From that time to this he had had no understanding with Mr Fisher, nor had he asked him for his vote on any subject; but he found that he voted with him upon all great questions which were for the benefit of the country. [Cheers.] On some questions Mr Fisher took his own way independently, and he (Sir George) his. When the question of forming a. Ministry came up he (Sir George) was glad of the opportunity of securing the services of Mr Fisher, as a gentleman who had shown great sagacity and a deep interest in the welfare of the country. [Cheers.] Perhaps by so doing he had given offence to many parties because he had travelled outside the beaten track which had been trod by politicians. But he had been actuated in the selection of this gentleman for his colleague, as in those of the others who had joined him, by a desire to afford an opportunity for young men, and for men of ability and sagacity to devote their talents to the service of their country. [Hear, hear.] He felt that it was necessary to introduce new blood. In the ordinary course of events he felt that he could not long preserve his health and vigor, hence he desired to form a Ministry composed of men in the vigor of youth, combined with the sagacity of age. Thus he hoped to build up a new party, to leave behind him the memorial of what could be done to build up a party which should raise New Zealand to a high place amongst the nations of the earth. [Cheers.] Ho felt that when he passed away his mantle would fall upon men who would bo more conversant with the politics of the present day than he was, more sagacious and more able, and men who would carry out to the full a policy for the good of the country which he loved so well as he did New Zealand. [Cheers.] Informing an administration of this kind, he held the idea that, next to religion, politics was the highest possible aim a man could have in life, not to make him vain, but to carry out those principles to which, afterlong study, he had become attached. [Cheers.] These principles were few in number, and were more simple than they might suppose at first sight. They were so simple that everyone there that evening, even the youths, could make up their minds which side they would take, and this they could well do when they came to discuss the subjects he would lay before them. Only the other night, at Christchurch, a gentleman had said, when he was enunciating some truths, “ Look how he is deceiving them.” [Loud laughter.] Now that was not complimentary to the people there, f Laughter and cheers.] Nor was it likely that he should he so blind to his own interests as to do this in a place where there were a hundred enemies ready to pick holes in what he said, and to catch him tripping on the smallest possible item. [Cheers.] But this one gentleman perhaps felt that he was being deceived, and also pitied the 1300 or 1400 people who were there. [Cheers, and a Voice: “He was only a tailor.”] Nay,hewasa landed proprietor—a gentle man of position—but he could not bear to hear him telling the'people what they did not know before, and indeed perhaps preferred that they should remain in happy ignorance of the good things which were in store for them. [Cheers.] He was contented with his lot, and wished them to be also. [Cheers.] Now let him just speak of his position there that night. During his travels through New Zealand he had seen growing up in all parts townships, having all the appliances of civilisation, hospitals for the sick, schools for the children, institutions for the needy and helpless, and in all the towns of this great colony an intelligent population, perhaps the most intelligent in the colonies. Looking at these scenes through which he had passed, which appeared to him almost a fairy tale, he realised to the full the great power which had been placed in his hands and those of his colleagues. They had been invested with power to spend large revenues, to place Judges on their Bench, and to carry out. measures which, if they did their duty, would be for tho welfare of this vast population. Looking at this he felt it incumbent upon him to be up and doing, to act and to work. Should ho remain in one place spinning out laws from his own brain, planning surprises in legislation, which should lead the House of Representatives to make changes which might affect tho history of tho colony for centuries? He,realising tho great powers whiph had been given to him, more like the gifts conferred by fairies upon princes in the tales of their youth than tho tacts in reference to aged men, decided upon going forth and laying his thoughts before the population of this great colony. [Cheers.] He determined to take the people into his confidence, to become acquainted with the leaders of the governing bodies, to see if they could by the discussion of tho great questions of the day evolve measures for the benefit of all. [Cheers.] This was what be had done, and he had done it to see if they between them could not arrange to tread the same path towards the great end- -the making of the colony a great nation. And when ho had thus conferred with the people he would go back and carry out the measures, and show them that he was a general worthy of their confidence and o£ following to the end,

Cheers.] This was what should be done by their statesmen. There were two courses to be adopted, this or bribery. Let them look at what hud been done in England and elsewhere. Every Act that hud been against the benefit of the people had been achieved by bribery. [A voice—“Beer.”] No, not beer, but; dukedoms, marqulsates, bits of ribbon. Why they all remembered the union of Ireland which had been achieved by bribery. Lord Cornwallis had said in Iris letters speaking of the means adopted to accomplish this, that he had had to purchase the sympathy of several owners of rotten boroughs with peerages, and that when they left the room ho had great difficulty in restraining himself from kicking them out. [Cheers.] Now they had to bow down to the descendants of these men. Therefore he said there was only here two courses to be taken. If their statesmen were worthy to lead them on in the march of progress they would not be afraid to meet them—[Cheers] — and discuss with them the measures which they proposed to carry out for the interest of the colony at large. Now, the first thing that he would discuss with them that night was manhood suffrage. In every case where the liberty of the subject had been enlarged, such as the admission of Jews into Parliament, the doing away with the slave trade, and other great measures, it was done by the widening of the franchise. It was said at the time this was proposed that by doing this England would go down, but what was the fact ? He would not deceive them—[laughter] —and he asked them whether since the extension of the franchise England had not been wiser and more prosperous than before? [Cheers.] When he lifted his eyes beyond that hall and looked forth on the great province of Canterbury, the other parts of the colony, the Australias, and Canada, he saw that those men who were held to be unworthy of the privilege of a vote at one time, but who bad been disenthralled, had risen up and had given laws to the world which had been adopted by the United Kingdom itself. Had the extension of the franchise not been given would these men have had an opportunity of doing good to their fellow men ? He said no. They would not have had the opportunity, they would have lingered on in England unknown, and their graves when they died would have been unmarked and unknown. Indeed, of them might have been used the lines of the poet commencing “Some village Hampden.” But when they were disenthralled they went forth to the Canadas, to Australia, and Now Zealand, and there made laws and rose to high estate. [Cheers,] Now what ho was striving for here in his advocacy of manhood suffrage was to disenthral the thousands here who had no vote. [Cheers.] In doing so he did no harm to any one. [Cheers.] But he was told that this was not necessary, as they had no class legislation here. But he said that there was class legislation, and he would show them how. The law said that men should in the province of Canterbury have the right of free selection. But what had been done ? By the taking of alternate blocks of nineteen acres and twenty acres, the holders of property shut up the whole country side. [A Yoice—“The Hon. John Hall.”] He held it as a firm belief that those who had done this had wrested the law to their own purposes, and had broken the law. [Cheers.] lie held the firm conviction that had the matter gone to the Courts the law would have adjudged that this was a violation of the law. [Cheers.] Now when he said this at Christchurch there arose a howl of indignation behind him on the platform. [Cheers.] He had also been told that an Act had been passed which enabled less than twenty acres to be bought. But let them just look at this. When wool was cheap and things not so prosperous as now, the intervening sections to which lie had referred were shut up; but so soon as this was changed, and good prices were enabled to be got for wool the restriction was at once taken off, and these gentlemen had the right of going in and taking the land up by free selection. He would never have allowed them to do this ; he would have had the land sold by auction. [Loud cheers.] Had a poor man gone into the survey office and requested the officials there to allow him to gridiron the land, he believed he would have been turned out. [Cheers.] With a wide electorate he believed that they would come to the same state of things as in England, viz,, that their public men would have nothing to do with purchasing public lands. Now let him go further. He contended that every man in New Zealand had a right to exercise hia vote as to the taxation which ho should pay. They were interested both for themselves and their children, because their children had to contribute towards the taxation. Then the fathers of families had a right to have the power of saying what amount of taxation they should contribute —[cheers] —and also to see that the rich and wealthy should contribute their fair share to the taxation of the country. While at Hokitika ho saw 800 children drawn up to meet him, and the thought came across his mind that each one of those little beings hud to give up something every year to contribute towards the taxat ion. Then he thought of the large tracts of public lands—in which each of those children have an interest as much as the richest and most influential man in the colony—held at a most inadequate rental by persons who lived in England upon the proceeds of these lands, and who contributed not one penny towards the taxation of the colony to which these little children had to contribute. [Cheers.] Then the thought came across his mind “Will the fathers of New Zealand help me to relieve these children of the burdens which now were imposed upon them, and place it upon the shoulders of those who were the right persons to bear it ?” [Cheers.] Let them do as they did in England. There the Government said to individuals “ You may go and spend your money where you like, but you must contribute towards the expense of keeping up the army and other means of protecting your property from which you draw your revenue.” Let them do this in New Zealand. [Cheers, and a voice—“ Tax the absentees.”] Yes ; that was just it; tax the absentees. He asked why all these little ones, to support whom their parents made great sacrifices, should be called upon to pay taxation for the enriching of men who lived perhaps in a Club here or at home ? [Cheers.] This system was in force nowhere else ; why should it be here ? He could only attribute it to the bad legislation of their Legislature, or perhaps he might go a step further, and say that it arose from a nominated Upper House. [Cheers.] Now this was what they wanted to alter, and yet he had been called hard names; had indeed been held up as an object of terror, and had been told that families were in tears on his account. Now all he wanted was to remedy the state of things he had depicted. [Cheers.] What they wanted to carry out in their legislation was to encourage small holders who cultivated their farms for the benefit of their children and the colony generally. They would say that it was not to their interest to encourage the holding of large tracts of land unproductive, and no use at all to anyone. But what were they doing ? Why, by'tlie law they had now in force the industrious man who improved his land, and who did what he could for the benefit of the colony, was taxed more and more for every improvement ho made. On the other hand, the man who did nothing to his land did not have his rates increased. If some modern Dean Swift were to arise he would say that a nation with a law' of this character must bo a nation of lunatics, [Cheers and laughter.] But they had not only done this they had said, “Let ns tax ourselves and give the rich man more than lie has. They say a man has an immortal soul, but that is his look out. Property is the tiling w’e look to. This is a kind of fetish or idol. Men are all very w r ell; let us give them one vote, but property is better, let us give it four votes. [Cheers.] Let us divide the colony into counties, and then we will give these rich men forty-five votes ; some men shall have one vote ; some more ; but property is what we endow, not men.” [Cheers.] That was what they had done in New Zealand. They had had surprise legislation and they had a fancy for public money. The concoctors of the surprise legislation, knowing lids, said “Let us give a bait to them, let us offer them subsidies to j/hoif municipalities and counties.” And it

took. [Cheers.] Then the Legislature said the persons who have no vote or only one vote should contribute very much more than these gentlemen who had got forty-five votes, and then the latter wore to determine how this money was to be spent. [Cheers.] They must recollect that the subsidies given to them was money raised from the very persons who had no vote or had only one. They were going down an inclined plane, and be was afraid that if this system was carried out, they would find that the rich would have an enormous power hero, and that this plurality of votes would get into the election of representatives. Now he was for pulling up at once.—[Cheers, and a voice : “ Put the break on.”]—and this brought him to the main point in bis argument, viz , the extension of the franchise. [Cheers.] As regarded th placing of names on the rolls, he might say without going into details that the system of representation he proposed was a simple means of getting the names on the rolls, and when there providing an inexpensive means of defending the claims before the revision court. [Cheers.] But it was said we must wait until the people are educated. He said that with their system of education they woold soon have no ignorant amongst them. They all contributed towards the cost of education, it was no pauper education though it was free. All contributed something towards the cost of this system of education, and they had a right to say that it should be carried out to the fullest extent whilst the country determined that the beneficent system of education should continue. [Cheers.] So that they saw that the argument of ignorance could not he held for one moment. It had been his misfortune to meet gentlemen who thought it was their right to govern the whole country. They said that the people wanted some one to keep them in order, and that they and friends were the only ones who could do it. This would be all very well if they contributed the whole of the revenue, but they had no right to say so while they were content to let the people contribute the revenue, and they only supervised the expenditure. It seemed to him that the expenditure would go in a great degree amongst their friends. He might tell them that a gentleman had got a grant of a large tract of land at a merely nominal sum, which he considered was an illegal transaction. He felt this very keenly, because though without children he had still relatives in whom he felt deep interest. Then he felt that it was not right that from this transaction the heirs of the gentlemen he spoke of would exercise in the county in which the land was situated a large number of votes, whilst the descendants he (Sir George Grey) left behind only had one. Would not that inculcate a feeling of degradation which would in time deepen, and ultimately result in the production of a feeling of self-degradation in the race ? [Cheers.] Had he as a Minister come before the public and asked them to acquiesce in a law like this, would they have agreed with him, or would they not have thought him mad and turned him out ? Had this been done he believed no member of the Assembly would have dared to have voted for it. This determined him to struggle to the utmost to put a stop to this. He told them that this was really the education of the people. Every boy in their borough schools would, he contended, become a better son, a better father, and a man more likely to do good for his country if he had the incentive before him that he should have a vote in the affairs of his country. [Cheers.] Now let him pass on to the equalisation of the electoral districts. They in New Zealand had favored districts which were returning more members than they were entitled fairly to, according to the basis of population. If the present law had been put before the public and their assent asked, would they have done so. [A Yoice—“No, no.”] Then this being the case he asked them to join with him in altering the law. [Cheers.] The next question was as the waste lands of the colony. And here let him say a few words in explanation of his conduct. Ho had been accused of doing wrong in respect to the disallowance of the Land Law, and the advice lie had given to the Governor. Now he had not divulged this, it had been done by others, who thought they had placed him in a dilemma. [Cheers.] Now this charge was given as an answer to what he advanced as to the franchise, &c. But supposing shat he had committed an error of judgment in this —not that he said ho had done so. The while he was trying to get measures passed for their good, and did this, they might censure him for an error of judgment; but they would not throw out a Premier who was trying to act with them in getting what was good for them, [Cheers.] But he contended that he had not committed an error of judgment, but on the contrary, had done right. Ho had explained this matter in Christchurch on Saturday last, but he could not explain himself too often, and therefore he told them once more what were his reasons for so doing. [Sir George Grey then proceeded to detail the reasons which had induced him to advise the Governor to disallow the Land Bill, to the same effect as at the meeting in Christchurch on Saturday last,] He had asked when the question of the runs had been under discussion lor an appeal to the country, but he was absolutely refused, and this remedy was denied him. All he wanted was that the people should be asked whether they were prepared to forgo a large revenue for thirteen years from these runs. Besides this, a clause was inserted in the Lower House giving the people a greater facility for acquiring land, and thus breaking up the runs, but this clause was thrown out in the Upper House, and the Bill was passed. He went then to the constituted authority and advised the disallowance of the Bill. In doing this he did nothing wrong. He spoke as the representative of the people, and he felt that he spoke their opinion. [Cheers.] He felt he had done right, and it was for them to decide. [Cheers.] Then ha was told that the constitutional course was to resign, but after considering the matter he came to the conclusion that it was not the constitutional course. [Laughter and cheers.] He would tell them why. He had asked for a dissolution of Parliament under circumstances which would have justified a dissolution being granted in England, but he was told that colonial statesmen were not to be trusted as much as English statesmen. Well, under these circumstances he held it to be his duty to fight the matter out, and go to the people of New Zealand. Besides this it occurred’ to him that if he resigned the people of New Zealand would be kept out of expressing their opinions on this subject for three years. For these reasons he declined to go out. [Loud cheers.] Then it was suggested to him that the Governor might turn him out. Well to this he gave what might be called a dry answer. He said, “ Well, seeing that I represent, as I believe I do, the opinion of the people, I don’t think the Governor will do this.” [Cheers.] But if he had committal political suicide that would have been a very different matter. So that now matters stood as they were, he had not resigned, and the Governor had not turned him out. Ho had held on to office until the people of No w Zealand had an opportunity of giving their opinion on the matter. [Cheers.] That was the history of that affair, and now he desired to refer to another charge which lead been made against him in the province of •Canterbury. That was the withholding of certain honors which had been conferred on the learned Judges of the colony. Now he had the greatest possible respect for these two gentlemen, who, he thought, were worthy of far higher distinction than the mere barren one which it was proposed to confer on them. If the two learned gentlemen had had conferred upon them the honor of Knight Bachelor, such as was granted to worthy subjects in Ceylon and elsewhere in the Empire, ha should have been delighted. He should have said to them —“ Gentlemen, I congratulate you on the reward of your worth and merit; go forth into the world and hold up your heads with the honors so well won.” [Cheers.] Bur. it was not so ; the honor which had been conferred was confined to the colony alone. If they went out; of the colony, say to Sydney, they would be placed in the very humiliating position of being addressed as “ Honorable,” knowing all the while that they had no right to the title there. He would not allow gentlemen to be placed in such a position. [Cheers.] lie said further, as Bremior of the colony, and, for tiro

people of New Zealand, that he felt they would not be in favor of the establishment of such a title. [Cheers.] In doing this he had one idea in view—viz, to preserve the rights and privileges of the people of New Zealand, and he had acted against all his personal feelings in doing what lie considered to be his duty. What he had to look for was not to offend posterity, not to do what would enable the historian to look with scorn on Non r Zealand men. [Cheers.] The Queen might create peers, baronets, &a, but when they came to New Zealand only by courtesy were they entitled to these titles ? Mr Fisher, as a Minister of the Crown in New' Zealand, would have precedence over any earl or. duke that might come to New Zealand. [Cheers.] Their own great men had a preeminence here, and very rightly so too. This was his explanation, and he had already trespassed 100 long upon then 1 time. [“No, no,” and “Go on.”] Ho would shortly allude to one or two points. They were entering on a new epoch in their history. He had seen them as people who knew that they were founding a great nation, that future times would look back with great interest upon the efforts of the present generation. He had seen in their hearts the determination to have their legislation in the future open, no surprises ; that every child, every man, should have the opportunity, if deserving, of rising to the highest positions in the state. Don’t let them say they had no honours to give. They had in the Ministry now one colonial-born youth who h;id risen by bis own exertions. [Cheers.] They would have many others, and he said that a people who could confer honours such as bad been given to him (Sir George Grey) during his visit, could confer higher and more lasting honours than dukedoms. [Cheers.] The parents of New Zealand could know no purer joy than to see their children treated with the kindness, the respect, and consideration with which the people of New Zealand had treated him. [Cheers ] If only they were true to themselves they would raise from amongst themselves men whose names would be handed down to future ages as imperishable monuments of good. [Cheers ] All he hoped and prayed for was that they would be true to themselves. They would if they did so raise from amongst their own body men who would be au honor to the greatest nation of the earth. But if they allow'ed their legislation to be handed over to one class they would find their future a gloomy one indeed, and the nations of the earth would say that they had not done their duty. [Cheers.] But he felt that a brighter sun was rising on the country, and that ere hs died he should see arising men whom be loved and could respect carrying out the meisures on which hie heart was set. When this came, and it would not be long first, he could die feeling that the world which came after would be better and a purer one. [Loud and continued cheering.] Mr H. A. Bamford moved —“That this meeting accord a cordial vote of thanks to Sir George Grey for his able and interesting address this evening, and that this meeting has every confidence in and pledges itself to support the Government of Sir George Grey.” [Loud cheers.] Mr Hopkins seconded the motion, Mr Treadwell essayed to speak, but the chairman ruled that lie was travelling outside the resolution before the meeting. The resolution was then put and carried unanimously. Mi’ Attwood moved —“That this meeting tenders its thanks and confidence to the Hon. J. T. Fisher, the representative of this district, for the straightforward and manly manner in which he acted during the last session” of the Parliament, and pledges itself to support him should there bo an appeal to the country.” Mr Rowland Davis seconded the motion.

Dr. Turnbull said that he desired to say a few words. He considered that the resolution would if carried involve them in a constitutional difficulty. If the Hon. Air Fisher hud come before them as the representative of the Heathcote then they would not have heard the hon. the Premier. He thought that the resolution was an inadvertence, and that any one who placed the Premier in the position of supporting a representative before his constituents, placed him in such a one as no one had a right to do. Let them understand him plainly, ho said nothing against Mr Fisher or the hon. Premier, but ho pub it to them, that it was not a proper position —no doubt inadvertently —to place the latter in. [Cheers.] Mr Staples said he desired to say a few words. They had heard from Sir George Grey that no Duke could enter a room where the Hon. Mr Fisher was. [Laughter and cheers.] After making a few remarks as to the necessity of reform, Air Staples retired. Mr A. Saunders said he desired to say a few words after the remarks of Dr. Turnbull, because there was a friend in Christchurch who would only be too willing to misconstrue anything that might take place. He therefore desired to say that it was evident from the temper of the meeting that night that neither the Premier nor Hon. J, T. Fisher required the presence of each other before the Heathcote electors. [Cheers.] The motion was then put and carried unanimously. Sir George Grey said that he thanked them most cordially for the manner in which they had received him that night. His desire was to carry out the measures that would conduce to the benefit, of the colony at large, and he now begued to propose a vote of thanks to the chairman, and he asked them to do so by acclamation. [Cheers.] Hon. J. T. Fisher seconded the motion of his hon. colleague with a great deal of pleasure. A voice in the hall had said “ How about the land fund,” and he desired to say just two words about that. If he hud voted as he had been told he should do on this subject, it would have.resulted ip a mere farce, but what had been done would, he contended, be for the benefit of the district, he represented and the colony at large. [Cheers ] The motion was then put and carried by acclamation, and the meeting terminated.