THE PREMIER IN CHRISTCHURCH.

Globe, Volume IX, Issue 1257, 18 March 1878, Page 2

THE PREMIER IN CHRISTCHURCH.

♦ - ■ PETITIONS, LICENSED VICTDALLEES’ ASSOCIATION. At three o’clock on Saturday afternoon (lie Premier received at the buildings a deputation from the Licensed Victuallers’ Association, consisting of Mr Baylee (president), and Messrs Hiorns, Barrqtt, and Beatty, The deputation -was introduced by Messrs Eichardson and Sevens. Mr Baylee said that the trade had heard

licensing law next session, and the deputation wished to assure themselves that the publican s’ interest would not be overlooked. They did not wish exclusive legislation, but that their interest should receive consideration. The Bill of Mr Fox, which fortunately did not Eass into law, was equal to confiscation. He ad been one of the conference at Wellington, and had been well received there by the members of Parliament and of the Government. A compensation clause had been introduced into tho Bill, whereupon Mr Fox abandoned it. The licensed victuallers would not object to the Bill, provided it had a compensation clause, which would ensure that their property should not be destroyed. There were many things affecting the trade locally, such as the hours of opening and closing, the equalising of license fee throughout the colony. Sir George Grey thought that would be provided for in Mr Sheehan’s Bill. Mr Baylee said in other provinces, for instance in Dunedin, there were three licensee, ten o’clock, twelve o’clock, and all night licensee at the option of the Licensing Bench. The trade thought there should be similar licenses here where trains were coming in all night. At present the only licenses were for eleven o’clock in all parts of the town. Many would be quite willing to pay an extra fee for the privilege of keeping open till later. Another matter was that here hotels having ladies and gentlemen boarders must keep their doors closed, and force the boarders to wait until the servants came. This was not the case in other parts of the colony. Sir George Grey did not know how that stood, hut Mr Sheehan meant to make all the regulations uniform. He had not seen Mr Sheehan about the matter, but as far as he knew the present Government would not consent to any Bill without a compensation clause. Mr Baylee did not think the licensed victuallers would object to that. Mr Hiorns hoped Sir George would use his influence to remedy the causes of complaint spoken of. Mr Baylee said the trade had no desire to encourage drinking houses, but the keeping of houses of good style. There was always a risk of not getting a license renewed, which acteC; as a check npon hotelkeepers. Err Barrett said the present AttorneyGeneral would most likely have sometliing to do With drafting the new Licensing Bill. Mr Stout’s speech on local option meant ruination to e.yery man connected with the trade. Men in Canterbury had invested their all, £IO,OOO or $15,000, in hotels, which in Canterbury were not mere drinking shops. He for one did not object to an annual renewal, which had its use, but he did not suppose the Government intended to ruin the men in the trade. Sir George recommended the deputation to send to Mr Sheehan particulars of all matters of detail they wished introduced into the Bill. The deputation then retired. THE PUBLIC MEETING. On Saturday evening Sir George Grey addressed one of the largest public meetings ever held in Christchurch, at the Oddfellows’ Hall. Half-past seven was the hour appointed for the commencement of Che proceedings, but long before that hour the street in front of the Hall was crowded to excess, and when the doors were opened the large Hall was filled in a few moments, every available comer being packed. The platform and gallery were reserved for the holders of tickets, the gallery being appropriated to ladies, by whom it was well filled. Amongst others on the platform were Hons. John Hall, E. Richardson, W. Robinson, G. Buckley, and J. T. Peacock, Messrs w. Montgomery, Ollivier, Cowlishaw, J. E. Brown, Inglis, E. C. J. Stevens, Saunders, J. Anderson, C. C. Bowen, Prins, Turnbull, Stead, O. W. Bishop, G. Booth, Briggs, M. B. Hart, Dr Haast, and a number of other leading citizens. Shortly after half-past seven Sir George Grey arrived, accompanied by the Hon. J. T. Fisher, and his private secretary, Mr Mitchell, and was received by his Worship the Mayor of Christchurch. On stepping to the front of the platform he was received with loud cheers. His Worship the Mayor occupied the chair, and said that he had very great pleasure in introducing Sir George Grey. |He would ask them to give those who might address them a fair and impartial hearing. As to Sir George Grey, the importance of the subjects upon which he would speak to them, and the high position he held, would he felt sure command from them the utmost possible attention and consideration, though perhaps many of them would not agree altogether with the views expressed. [Cheers.] He would not detain them longer, but begged to introduce Sir George Grey to them. [Loud and continued cheering,] Sir George Grey, on coming to the front of the platform, was again saluted by enthusiastic cheering, which continued for some time. When silence had been secured, he spoke as follows: —Mr Chairman and Gentlemen, —I feel very great diffidence in addressing a meeting in this city of Canterbury, because from the character of the early settlers of this community it is quite certain that I must have here a very critical audience, an audience who will weigh carefully every word I utter, an audience whom I would ilkwish to lead with me, an audience fully capable of understanding arguments even of j 'V e most profound kind, and therefore an { [ lienee whom I feel that I ought to do my ,V ‘ ■ st to convince and carry along with me .e pursuit} of the objects which I believe -p. remote the good of the whole of Now ZeAinAV Now let me venture to say this of myself, without any desire of boailfijg, but in order to remove from your minds all feelings of alarm as to the probability of my leading you into difficulties and inducing you to adopt measures of a difficult and dangerous character. I would say this to you, that which you all know, that I procured for New Zealand a constitution which was mainly based upon recommendations of mine, a constitution under which you for many years ’lived in happiness and great prosperity, a constitution which was admittedly one of the freest in the world, and in all respects iu which it was not free it had departed from the recommendations I had made, which departure is now, I believe, admitted by all to have produced a serious blot upon tho measure itself. I would say to you that in the great colony of Natal I introduced a constitution under which tho people have lived in happiness and great prosperity till tho present day. I would say to you in reference to the whole South African dominion, that twenty years ago I endeavored to obtain for it a constitution so advanced in its nature that I was removed from the Governorship for having recommended measures which were thought to be extreme. Yet at the present day those who were hostile then have declared themselves in favor of it, and those British statesmen on account of whose opposition the constitution I proposed was not passed, have now passed an Act of Parliament conferring a similar constitution upon tho whole of those colonies. I have said this much in no spirit of boasting, but that you may know that the man who is speaking to you is not a novice in tho art of governing, which he has undertaken to expound to you. [Hear, hear.] Many people who are here will toll you that my views are wild and visionary, hut I will tell you that upon two of these points, in fact upon all three, many of the greatest statesmen of Great Britain are in accord with myself. They have proposed to introduce into England the same measures that I propose to introduce here, in so far as these measures would be novelties in Great Britain, —because the other measures are part of tho law of England, and have been in operation for many years to tbe great advantage and benefit of that country. The two measures which have bo much distrpst and alarm are first the measure for tho establishing of what is called “manhood suffrage,” and secondly the measure which is intended to secure fair representation to each district in proportion to its population. I will discuss these first of all. And let me tell you that it appears to me to be an absurdity to object to the measure of manhood suffrage in the form in which I propose to introduce it,

this law, viz,, that any man who paid a pound for a miner’s right was to have a right to vote for a member to represent him in the House of Assembly. It seems to me to involve an absurdity to say that a man who may have no knowledge of our customs or laws, who does not, it may be, know for what be is voting, should have the right to exercise the franchise on payment of a pound, while, on the other hand, the men who are, it may be, New Zealand born, because of certain circumstances, have no right to vote. But following out some few of the arguments of Mr Gladstone, who is now an ardent supporter of these measures, even on a broader scale than I am myself, I will call your attention to another point. The proposition of the Government is that every man who has resided for a certain time within a district, and who is of adult years, shall have a right, when his name is placed upon the electoral roll, to vote for the return of a member for that district. Such a system secures extraordinary simplicity. Under the present franchise —for which, mind, I am responsible, because I drew out the constitution myself, and at the time that constitution was the freest in the British dominions, and I had no hope that a Brit ish Parliament would consent to pass a freer—under the present franchise it is quite possible for a man even after h;s name has been placed upon the electoral roll to have it struck off by the revising officer, and he cannot get his name replaced without losing a great deal of time which he can ill-afford to lose. He may thus lose all right to a vote. To give you an example I will tell you what has occurred within the last few weeks. A retired judge was desirous of doing what I did, fOregon, g his leisure and taking service for the benefit of his country. Ho actually promised a constituency that when a vacancy took place he would present himself as a candidate for election. He had a right to be on the electoral roll in some five or six districts, but his name had been struck off, and when he came forward he was met with the objection that he was not competent to stand for election, and he has thus lost all chance of being returned as a representative of the people to the Parliament of New Zealand, It is clear that such a system as this is objectionable, and that the simple system which I propose will have the advantage of it in that respect. I am assured by an able statesman in New Zealand that there are at the present time only 61,000 names on the electoral roll, that many of these names are repeated five or six or even eight times over in the various districts, and that there is a large number of other names of persons who have left the colony or who are dead. So that at the present time there are only 40,000 persons on the electoral roll, whereas there are upwards of 150,000 adult males in the colony; therefore the result is that 40,000 people govern 150,000. Now that is clearly an unfair thing. It is all very well to turn the matter into a joke, and say of those who are deprived of their vote that they are all loafers. I say they are not all loafers. A retired judge is not a loafer. [Laughter and cheers.] It is easy to apply a term of that kind to a large body of men, but that is not argument, it is a ridiculous observation. Mr Gladstone says that every man who contributes to the taxation of the country has a right to a vote. He does not quite analyse that, but let me try to work it out. What does it mean ? Has a man with a wife and family any right to assent to this P that every one of his little ones shall in the course of each year make some sacrifice for the public good in the form of clothing, in the form of food, in the form of medicine, or in the form of some one thing or another which may be necessary to the health or comfort of the child P Has he any right to do this without his having any voice as to the way in which the money shall bo taken out of his pocket and how it shall be spent ? Does he do his duty as a man if he assents to this ? [No, no.] In my mind that man is not a just or an honest man if he does not struggle to the last as a father and as a husband to obtain for himself that right to a voice which he is entitled to. [Cheers.] Then, again, I will put another question to you. Is it the part of a just and honest ma n to desire to put his hand into his neighbor’s pockets and take money from it without that neighbor’s consent ? [Cheers and laughter.] Ought he to desire to spend his neighbor’s money without his neighbor agreeing to the way in which it is to be spent? I say emphatically no. [Cheers.] Then, again, I ask further, ought any free man to sub mit, if he can avoid so doing, to be made subject to laws regarding the passing of which he has no voice whatever P [Cheers.] Now, sir, in this country there can be no objection to the introduction of the system of manhood suffrage I speak of. Hera there are no ignorant classes as there are in Great Britain. Yet British statesmen, led by Mr Gladstone, say that rather than persevere in the pursuance of the wrong system now in operation in Great Britain they will face the danger arising from the large number of uneducated people who would have given them an opportunity of exercising the franchise. Now, passing'from the money argument, I come to the other objections that are made. The most important that I have heard are these —there may be others,Jbut the most important are these—l am told, “ If you carry this out, I, a most respectable man, who have rendered great services to my country, will have only one vote, and that drunken fellow, so and so, will have a vote as well as me.” [Cheers.] And then my opponents say, “ Is that just or right?” And I answer, “Yes, it is perfectly just and right.” I argue in this way when I say that it is right and just, I say that to deprive any man of his right to vote is a very serious punishment, a punishment unknown in this country unless in the case of a man who is undergoing sentence for some crime. I maintain that you have no right thus to punish a whole class in the same way that you punish men who have been convicted of crime. Moreover, the moment a man has completed his sentence, if he has property, he immediately recovers his right to vote, but however great may he the reformation of the drunkard, ho never obtains a right to vote. Now, further, I tell this respected gentleman —and the person who made this objection to mo was a man for whom I have the greatest respect —I say to him “ You have your reward and your influence. You are known to your fellowcitizens, and as soon as it is known which way you will vote twenty, thirty, or forty others will vote the same way. Your position gives you an influence, and you exercise that influence—rest satisfied with that,” [Cheers.] “ You cannot deprive one citizen of his vote. If you make any distinction at all, you must deprive a number of persons of their rights to the franchise. Rest satisfied with the number of votes which your influence will secure for you, and don’t attempt to deprive your fellow-citizens of what is their undoubted right.” [Cheers.] Well, the argument with regard to the ignorant people in this country is again adduced. I say there are very few ignorant men who would endanger the country. The number of such men whom this question of voting would affect would be very small indeed. [Cheers.] Further, by the system of education you have now established in New Zealand, a noble system of compulsory education, an education for every child in the country free of all cost, you have secured that in a very few years you will have no ignorant people in Now Zealand. [A voice: “They will know too much.”] I thank the speaker for that remark. It is exactly the argument used in the English House of Peers in opposition to any law for educating the people, “ They will know too much.” [Loud and continued cheering,] Hence the uneducated millions which exist in Great Britain ; hence those dens of vice which exist in your largo towns ; hence the numbers of children who ara brought up in misery from that lack of education which was deliberately kept back from them lest they should “know too muoh.” Law after law being rejected for fear that the people becoming educated should “ know too much,” and thus should become discontented with their lot. Hence we have the ignorant persons we now have in this colony. [Laughter and cheers.] Why, Sir, in spite of myself, thoughts come now crowding upon me one after another in reference to this subject. Education was prohibited, and then it was said chat for want of education the people had no right and were disqualified to vote. This led to class legislation, aud class legislatyi vytiH ftp Wf| fc* J#

starve the population. Through class legislation, all improvement was prevented in Ireland, and her population, dwelling upon lands from the acquiring of which as their property they were excluded, were forced to drag on a miserable existence by feeding on one small root—the potato. Hence came famine and the perishing by starvation and “disease of millions of innocent people. Hence, in Scotland, the large landed proprietors preferred sheep and deer to men, and were permitted to drive forth in thousands the hardy inhabitants of Caledonia. [Cheers.] Hence in my youug days every year thousands were dragged to the scaffold and executed, amongst them many children even. Only two days ago I was iu a gaol here. [Laughter.] Only two days ago I was inspecting a gaol here—[renewed laughter]—and a list of eighteen prisoners was handed to me. I looked over it and found that of those eighteen persons sixteen! would in the time of my youth have been condemned to death had they been found guilty of the same crimes for which they were in prison. Such was then the state of the law. Now, with the exception of one, a case of insanity, the other fifteen would receive a comparatively light sentence. These bloody laws arose from the want of fair represent ation of the people in the British Parliament. Why should I weary you with all this ? B ut in spite of myself ideas rush upon me. In my childhood no man could hold an office, even a municipal appointment, unless he was a communicant of the Church of England. Even when I first took office in a colony I had to take oaths on the subject of transubstantiation and the Electress Sophia and her descendants. [Laughter.] None ot you, I dare say, know who the Electress Sophia was—[renewed laughter]—but such was the state of things at that time, in consequence of class legislation being allowed ther e. I could multiply instance on instance, but one dreads to recall these things. I have mentioned on a previous occasion that at one time I was put in command of cavalry, artillery, and infantry to escort a party of what were called “ drivers,” who compelled the people to pay tithes to a church with the doctrine of which [they did not agree. That was what class legislation had brought things to. [Cheers.] I say such a state of things ought nob to exist. [Cheers.] All these arguments tell in favor of that for which I am pleading—that for the future there shall be no class legislation, but that every man of adult, age, resident in a district, shall have the voice which, as a matter of right belongs to him as a free man. [Cheers.] I come now to the subject of electoral districts. Looking to the whole population of New Zealand, it should be said that a fair, a certain, number of that population should return one representative to Parliament, and no more than one. Many have said that this proposition is a most radical thing on my part. You Heard that one man said he was for the Queen and the Constitution. Why, what did her most gracious Majesty do when she gave you the Constitution under which you Jive ? _ She assented to this principle as a main guiding principle, that the electoral districts should be fairly proportioned, so that every man should have the same power to return a member of Parliament. Her Majesty herself secured that for you, and you ought not to give it up, but to insist upon its being restored to you. I now turn to another point, which is, however, largely connected with the other questions on which I have spoken, and that is this—-that the taxation of the country should be readjusted, so that every individual in New Zealand should be compelled to contribute in exact proportion to the benefits which he derives from the State, and n ot only that but that every individual, and every great company, every person who draws an income from New Zealand but liven in another country, should bo compelled to pay in exact proportion to the benefits he derive vs from the c untry. [Hear, hear.] Now, I simply claim a right, to hold my own opinion on this matter. Every man has a right to his opinion, give me a right to mine. J. say that I don’t believe that absentees would have been allowed to draw their incomes from this country but for class legislation. I believe the taxes would have been differently adjusted, and the riih would have had to pay thrir fair share. [Cheers.] Class legislation led to the contrary thing. Just let us reason this point out. Let us consider this question. I will put itin this way first. Every married man in Now Zealand, whenever he has a child horn to him, gives an increment of value to the property of every landholder in the country. As density of population increases, so will estates increase enormously in value. What has given the value it possesses to the land in this city ? Has it increased in proportion to the increase of population ? You all know that it has ; you know that every father who perhaps has no property of his own, increases the value of the country. When crowds of immigrants wore introduced, who ought to have paid for them ? Was it the men with whom they were to compete ? Ought every little child to pay something to those whose coming, would cause his father to earn less ? Was that right? [No, no.] Well, I say that a different; system of taxation ought to have been levied. It is not right that every man in New Zealand should he liable for his share of the enormous debt for ever. It is not right that every baby, whether the child of a rich or of a poor mem, should be born with an equal share of the burden. Let the burden fall where it ought to have fallen—upon those who benefited by it. Follow this out in all it» ramifications, and you will find it is always the same. What has given the increased value to the land near the railways ? Is it the railways, oris it not ? You all know that those public works have increased enormously the value of property. Why, is every child in New Zealand to be born into the world with a, necessity of paying for the increased value tVms given to the property of wealthy men ? I ask you who are fathers of families, or who hope to be fathers of families—[laughter]—I ask every girl in New Zealand, ought she to consent to this ? Will she consent that every child she is to bring into the world shall be so born into it, subject to a debt contracted without their consent, and from which they are to derive no benefit ? Well, then, I ask again, is it right or just that :i man with an income say of £20,000 or £25,000 a year, and living at a club or in lodgings, is to pay no more than the poorest man in New Zealand, and if he has no children is to pay not nearly as much as the poor man who has a family, towards the interest of a debt which has given his property so enormous an increase of value? [Cheers.] It appears to me that the matter cannot be reasoned out. It is difficult to find any argument—l can find none —in favour of such a thing. Is it right, again I ask the whole of you, and I know well that every man here will give me one great answer. [No.] Imagine this—a great estate of Crown lands, the common property of all, in which every infant in the counti’y has the same interest ns the richest man, held upon far too reasonable terms by some magnate of the country. [“ It is not.”] I repeat the words — held upon far too reasonable .terms by some magnate, who draws from', it an income which would relieve the mass of the people. Is it just and right that he should spend that income in England, and pay comparatively nothing of it to this country ? Why does England impose an income tax ? She says to the rich “ Live where you like, spend your income where you like, but remember we keep up an army for the defence of your property, and that of others ; we keep up a navy for the defence of your property, and that of others ; we keep up police amd judges and maintain other departments for your benefit, and that of others ; pay your shs.re of the expense of all this, and then live whe re you like. We do not, as tho Russian Gov eminent does, forbid your going where you like!; live where you "like, but pay your share in the form of an income tax.” I ask was there ever such madness known as that people should pay costs and charges, some of which ought to be paid by e thers who live not here, I cannot conceive how people have lived on in such apathy. I have heard men told that they should look at the wages they were getting and bo satisfied with that. Why the very money they were thus receiving as wages was their own money! They had to pay a greater proportion of those wages than the persons who benefited by the expenditure. [Cheers.] How base must be tho mind of tiwt SA&q who wouhl subject hip and

himself to the loss of his freedom and rights simply in order that he might have good wages for the moment. But he would have equally good wages under another system. I wilt give an example of what I mean. There is a vast property in the North Island which has been given at half-a-crown an acre. [“ Piako.”] A person told me that this had done a great deal of good, that the owners had spent a deal of their own money on it. If you give me 30,000 acres I can easily raise money on that security, but is that money mine ? No, it is the money of the public of New Zealand. Then if you told me that I was spending large sums of my own money on that property, and that therefore the people I was employing ought to be contented, I would answer —“ Those people are nothing better than serfs if they are satisfied under such circumstances. The money you speak of has been robbed from them. If the Government had spent the money in improving the roads it might have settled upon that land hundreds of families, who would have derived from it ample revenues for their support.” [Hear, hear.] You will see therefore that taxes raised by Customs, at least it is so in my belief, are levied on the whole population, and make every man feel the want of money without his knowing exactly how or why ; they are levied on the articles he consumes, and are so much for the articles, so much for the officers who collect the taxes, and so much to the merchant; all these sums are taken from the children that compose that man’s family, who are thus deprived,’ perhaps, of many things which are necessary for their health and welfare. You see a system of that kind falls upon the whole population. Now I say, as far as possible, reduce your Customs tariff; do away as far as possible with charges at your ports ; if possible, make them almost free ports. That is what will improve your commerce and get your grain carried away. I believe that this year you will have great difficulty in getting vessels to carry your grain away. But if every vessel passing near could call in at your port free of light charges, wharf charges, &c., you would attract shipping to your shores instead of experiencing the scarcity you now do. The farmers would be able to ship their grain at less cost than they now do. I say that your legislation should be directed into that channel. But you must replace the present system of taxation by something else. Well, here in the very hot bed of contrary opinions, I stand as a man having a right to express my own opinions as Premier of this colony and to speak out fearlessly what I believe—[hear, hear] —without fear on the one hand of sneer or detraction, or what the proud or envious may say to me, and without, on the other hand, hesitating to advise the people if I think they are going wrong, as I think a largo portion of the population of this country arc. I say it is just to tax landed property. In Great Britain land has always been taxed — [‘ ‘Too much so.”] I say the landed interest have never known what was for their welfare. They have been dragged through adversity to consent to measures which relieved their fellow countrymen, and who shall say that England has not been greater and more prosperous since the Corn Laws were repealed ? What makes us grow wheat here ? Is it that the markets of the world are open to us that the millions of England have a much better chance of obtaining bread, though many of them I am sorry to say do not get enough to eat ? I say that it is a duty you owe to yourselves and to the country to assent to a tax being placed upon land. And the land owners, if they know their own interest, will cheerfully consent to that. Because I believe that the people of New Zealand will not consent to carry on works by money drawn from those who hardly benefit by them. They will say introduce no more labor, unless those who benefit by it pay for it. In hundreds of ways you will see the force of what I have been saying to you on the subject of taxation. It has been said that this is not the time to introduce a new system, and I have been charged with all sorts of offences for having proposed such a thing. I say that no more favorable opportunity than now could present itself. The state of things is such that the introduction of the change of the incidence of taxation which I propose would be quite gentle, and one which would be scarcely felt. I will show you what I mean. Take the property of the small owner, the man who has a small plot of land upon which he is working for the support of himself and his family; he does not shut any one out, therefore I would not tax his property. But after this I would tax landed property, according to quality, beginning with a small tax for inferior quality, and then an increase on that of better quality. Then I would have a third class of the best land, and upon this I would put another increase. So that the taxation would be divided into three classes, according to the quality of the land. To do this will inflict injury on no one, except, perhaps, the large speculators, [Cheers.] Those who hold largo tracts of land to do nothing with it, who are impeding the settlement of the country, will not care to pay a largo sum by way of taxation upon it year by year, but that land will do good to the whole country if it is brought so that it can be acquired by small holders, men who by their industry will aid in the progress of the country. [Cheers.] The taxation I propose will not press hardly upon this class of the community, it will make those who do not now contribute their fair share to the revenue of the country from which they draw such large sums, and who do nothing with the land, pay a just proportion, or make way for the more desirable class of settlers to which I have alluded. [Cheers.] Large public works will go on, hope will rise triumphant in men’s hearts wherein the hope of getting land for themselves and their children is now all but dead. Here in this part of the colony it is true you do not know what it is to be without land for the people, as is the case in the North Island. If there is any man here from the Thames who hears me to-night, he will tell you of the thousands of the people of New Zealand who try to get land for themselves and their children and cannot. This is what drives away our people to other parts. Unable to get land, they go away to Australia and elsewhere, and thus we lose people who would bo the industrious hard working settlers. But that is not all. Let me tell you what else the class legislation to which I have referred has done. We have taxed the people here to introduce immigrants of a far inferior character to the noble men we have driven away. [Loud cheers.] This being so, I say the time has now come for a change to be made in the way I propose. [Loud cheers.] People may say “ Don’t be in a hurry, let us wait ten years or so, not make a change all at once. S,end our children to school and educate them first, and then give them manhood suffrage.” But you mark my words—and I have lived many years and had largo experience—if you let things go on as they are for ten years or so you will find that the system has so grown up and become part of your life that you will not be able to get rid of it for the next half a century at least. [Cheers.] You will have the party interested in keeping things as they are becoming dominant in both branches of the Legislature, and you will find it difficult —aye, very nearly impossible —to eradicate abuses which have become a part of the system of the country. [Cheers.] Now is the time to do it, and it can be done easily. One constitution has been destroyed and as yet nothing has been built up in its place. Every step that has been taken in the way of replacing what has been done away_ with is to my mind bad. I wall give you an instance of what I mean. Is it fair to rate a person’s property every year so that the more improvements he carries out on it to the good of the country generally, the more rates he has to pay? [No, no.] There are vast tracts of land held by men residing in England, who lot sheep run on it, who make no improvement whatever, and their rates remain the same year after year, whilst the industrious settler, who is by his very industry adding to the wealth and progress of the colony, has to pay an increased tax for so doing. Is that right? [“No, no,’ and cheers.] I say that it stops our progress, and it checks prosperity, and it encourages the idle and indolent who live on it, and it is a tax on the industrious. [Loud cheers.] I should like to go further and show you what harm this thing is doing. I have been reproached in the Assembly, and the people have been warned not to J+steo to ipo because \ was in-

troducing a new thing. But what does the present system say ? Why, that in various districts of the colony some men shall have no vote at all—they aie only men ; some shall have only one vote —they are only men; but where a man is rich and has a lot of property, he shall have four votes, one for himself and three for his property. Take Canterbury for instance, some will have one vote, some more, some forty-five votes because of property. Those desirous of seeing the prosperity of the country, and to do their best for themselves and their offspring, are to be subservient to property—or e vote to them—forty five to the men whom their exertions have helped to make rich. [Cheers.] But it don’t stop there. They did not tell you what more they were going to do. As to voting, property has largely the preference, one vote for the holder himself as a man and four for property. But further than this, they will tax the country under a system of taxation by which we are told that, head by head, tire contribution of the poor exceeds that of the rich. Some say £4] per head, but, anyhow, it is certain that there is a very large amount more contributed by the poor than by the rich. But not only is this so, but by the system of plurality of county votes the money so raised will be handed over to these gentlemen to expend. But I contend the abuse of plurality of votes will not stop here. You will find, if it is allowed to go on, that it will go on to representative voting for legislative purposes; in fact, it is so now, becaxise laws will be made by the Counties affecting the interests of individuals, and a very great extension of power must also be given to them if the County system is to continue. I say this, gentlemen, if the plural system of voting is to go on, your liberties are gone. [Cheers.] I don’t know if I have made myself clear on this point. [Yes, yes.] Passing from this point I say that it is to your interest to take care to insist upon such a system of representation on the points of franchise and electoral districts as will ensure that each man shall have a vote. [Cheers.] If we do away with plurality of voting, wo shall never have bad land laws, and never have laud laws badly administered. [Cheers.] I here say that it is my duty as Premier to speak out what I feel on this matter. It is my duty to speak the truth to you. Now there is a very large amount of landed property in this district in which all have an interest, and in which your children have an interest. The property I speak of —the pastoral rune—was held on leases which expire in 1880—ample time to have considered the subject and submitted the terms upon which these runs were to be let to the people of the country for their consideration. [Cheers.] What I say is this, that these runs ought to be broken up. [Cheers.] Each of them would carry three or four families well, they would largely improve the land, and the whole population would have been largely benefited. [Cheers ] There are many people in this provincial district who would have taken up small runs, many young couples just starting in life who would have invested in them. Had the runs been put up to auction a fair price would have been got for them, and the burden of taxation would have been taken off the shoulders of the people. I contended earnestly for this being done, and in spite of there being a majority in both branches of the Legislature in favor of an opposite course, I did not believe that they would have taken advantage of it to press on the settlement of the disposal of these runs three years before their tenure expired. [Cheers.] I consider that such a thing could only be done under the existence of the class legislation to which I have referred. I tried all I could to get the matter referred to the people of the country, I offered to accept a compromise of the extension of the leases for five years instead of ten, hut it was contemptuously rejected. Men have what is called gridironed the whole country. [A voice—“No, no.”] Jusv let me explain to you what has been done by large purchasers to secure their runs and you will then see whether I am right in what I say or the gentleman behind me who cried “ No, no.” [Loud cheers.] I say that these persons gridironed the country in order to secure their runs, and I will tell you how they did it. The country was laid off in large blocks, containing a section of 20 acres, then one of 19 acres, then one of 20 acres, then another of 19 acres, and so|on, sections of nineteen and twenty acres alternately. The sections of twenty acres so laid off were purchased, but they left those of nineteen acres unpurchasod. Now, they knew very well that the law said that nothing less than twenty acres should bo open to free selection. Therefore these men deliberately shut out the country from free selection. [Cheers.] I say that while it was a boast of this part of the colony that free selection was in force here, and it was declared that free selection should exist, these people by leaving the nineteen acres between their twenty acre blocks prevented free selection from being exercised —[cheers] —and that the men who secured double the amount of land for which they had paid were committing a great wrong on their fellow countrymen. [Cheers.] I say that the Government should have put a stop at once to such a system when they knew it existed. [Cheers.] I know that this is so, because I this day satisfied myself of the truth of the statement by a visit to the land office in this city, [Loud cheers, and a voice, “ It is not so now.”] Let me explain to you, that during the past session, when great changes were imminent, and it was certain that great changes in our constitution would come about, the law was so altered that a nineteen acre section can be selected, but that has nothing to do with the fact that a system which practically enabled men to put a stop to free selection altogether had been allowed to go on. [Cheers, and a voice—" You should have told us this before.”] I appeal to you, gentlemen, that what I said was, that the Queen’s subjects had been detained from free selection. [Loud cheers.] Those gentlemen behind me are throwing dust. My argument was that, while it was the boast of the country that free selection prevailed, to deprive any portion of the Queen’s subjects of the power to exercise that free selection was wrong —morally wrong, [Cheers.] It is no argument to say that the runs may be bought for £2 per acre. There are numbers not worth it now, nor will be for years. But why should we allow any man or men to shut up 100,000 acres, and keep it till the time arrives for it to be valuable, and not let the public come in and buy it if they like ? [Cheers.] This is the result of class legislation. Mr Gladstone says that ho finds that, ascending from lesser to greater wealth, there is greater selfishness, and that descending from greater to lesser wealth he finds lesser selfishness. My experience has taught me that Mr Gladstone in this is right in the main, but I do not agree with the result Whatever class of society has the power of legislating it will have the idea that by legislating for its own benefit it will be doing the best for the State; but when we leave it in the hands of a certain class—and I don’t say this as casting a slur on New Zealand, because the same system exists elsewhere—it will lead to those in power knowing offices and what is done in them. Did the mass of the people know that the country eould he gridironed as I have described it. [“No, no.”] I say that I did not know it myself. What chance has a distant farmer of getting at the Government ? His object is to get laws made which will enable all to be equal, and no one class to get the better of another. [Cheers.] I say the great majority is safer to give a right decision than the mere minority who may happen to be in power, and I have Mr Gladstone with me on this point. There are some other points which I should like to turn to, and I would ask you to look seriously on the situation. Don’t make the mistake of fancying that you are free from all danger of interference with your rights. There is one alteration of the law which came about at a time of great crisis, and you are not to think that all danger of interference has passed. I will give you an idea of what I mean. There has grown up a very strong party in England who say that there should be an alteration in the mode of dealing with the colonies. At one time there was a feeling that a colony should be allowed to separate from England if it desired to do so. For myself, I believe that the Empire ought to be held together—[loud cheers] —and I believe the Empire could be held together, held by bonds of affection, and not by threats. Now there has uj) a party in with very power-

ful advocates who say that from this date no colony will be allowed to leave England, and no colony can leave England without gunpowder being burnt. They say that the colonies must be taxed for the support of the navy. They f urther say that all bondholders of New Zealand bonds should join this party, because this would add an increment to their bonds. I am totally opposed to this proposal, but I say this—that if England wants money for the support of her navy, the colonies would spring to their feet os one man. [Cheers.] But I would say to England—“ If you go to war you only have the consent of a part of the Empire in Parliament, whereas you might be restrained from doing so by a Federal Parliament. But if you do go to war by the consent of the Parliament representing a portion of the Empire, it is enough for us to have to go to great expense to defend our coasts, and to be subjected to all the losses incidental to great wars. But to ask us to submit to taxation before this sacrifice is necessary is more than you ought to ask us to do. [Cheers.] To the bondholders I would say—we contracted to pay your interest on your bonds, and we will faithfully do so, but had we known that you would join a party to despoil us of our liberty, to add an increment of value to your bonds, we would have thrown your money to the winds before we would have had it. [Cheers.] But whilst we say this to those at home who are trying to deprive us of our 1 liberties, it is our duty to have a Legislature here which will hold its own, and which shall represent the whole of New Zealand, and no one ought to be able to say that it only represents a small portion of the colony. Yet this is the cry which is now raised. This is another and a great reason why we should push on the work of reform, and have more liberal laws respecting representation and the franchise. [Cheers.] There is another point upon which I wish to speak to you. You have doubtless seen that I have been blamed very strongly for objecting to pay a considerable sum to two engineer officers of eminence to come and report upon the defences of the ports and harbors of the colony. I will explain to you the reasons why I did so. I considered that it was not my duty to expend the money of the colony to a large amount on a report as to its defences, and I will tell you why. I thought rather that it was my duty to husband those resources for the making the harbors of the colony emporiums of commerce. I myself have for years of my life travelled with engineer officers of high repute. I have had the highest possible education in military engineering, and I have kept my science up. I have had sent to me reports on all the ports of New Zealand, by men of great ability residing in it, which I have considered. Now it is certain that new people coming to New Zealand would at once require large expenditure on works —perhaps £IOO,OOO per harbor would be within the mark. I know that the estimate for works in the other colonies reach three or four times that amount. Now, just think what the total amount would be if each harbor cost the sum I have mentioned. Besides even supposing it were expended, is there any guarantee that the expenditure would be of practical use. Supposing £IOO,OOO were spent in defending Lyttelton, would that prevent an enemy landing at Sumner. [Loud cheers and laughter.] Apart from this I considered that there was talent in the colony to do what we wanted. Besides these works would require large sums of money annually expended upon them to keep them in order, and if in ten years a great war broke out the chances would be that they would be found totally useless, owing to the advance made in the science of war. [Loud cheers.] It therefore became a question for me to decide whether it was best to expend the money of the colony, or to get the greatest marine engineer in the world to report upon the best means of making your harbours so that they would become emporiums of commerce, not making them a terror to enemies, but making them emporiums for the reception of the ships of every country in the world. [Loud cheers ] For the same sum it would have cost us for the report on the defences we may secure for New Zealand for all time one of the greatest. benefits a country can secure, the improvement of her ports, and the increasing of the facilities for sending away her 'products, and receiving those of other countries. [Loud cheers.] In the one case it means the undertaking of measures to prepare for war; in the other it means to put the ports of the colony in a position to carry out the noblest effort that any country can be engaged in, viz., the providing of harbors for all time for the commerce of the world. [Loud cheers.] I wish to put myself right with you on this subject, because I have been accused of all sorts of motives. [Loud cheers.] In all that I have stated my desire has been to do my duty in the position I hold. [Cheers.] My desire in all I have said to you to-night has been to foster in the colonists a manly feeling of independence and self-reliance. I wish to remind them that they have had to take part in the founding of a new nation. They have had to do that for which the great of all time have yearned—the building up of a new empire and a people, under circumstances of great advantage as to soil, climate, and the people who have had to do the work. As regards tire Middle Island also, there have been no natives to thwart the settlement of the country in any respect. Seeing that we have received the fact that every man in the country is a freeman, and has some power in shaping the destinies of the nation, let us cast aside the precedents of other countries which have arisen under totally different circumstances. We are not threatened with wai'like neighbours —we have not France on one side and Germany on the other. We have no standing army, nor navy to keep up, and probably shall not require to do so for years to come. We have no hereditary aristocracy to enter into the consideration of the relative positions of Lords and Commons. We have no large criminal population, no weakly or sick children, no large ignorant masses. [Cheers.] In the older countries this state of things does not exist, hence the necessity for legislation such as prevails, but hero in a country like this, with the advantages it possesses, we ought to beable to find amongst ourselves statesmen and citizens, men who can devise legislation for a new state of things, men who are able to give new laws to the world and not to be servile followers of those who have preceded them. [Loud cheers ] This would indeed be rising to the true height of that prosperity t.o which Providence has called us. Then we should not measure our work by what Sir Somebody Something had said, but should decide on doing what would be adapted to the circumstances around us. [Loud cheers ] Thus we should give an example to all parts of the world, of men going forth to found a new nation, opening the ports of their country and saying to the nations of the earth, “ Como one, come all, freely of whatever race you may be, so long as you conduct yourselves well.” [Loud and continued cheering.] Let there be no class distinction, hut let there he a fair field for the development of intellect, whilst there should be a fair field for the acquisition of wealth and the even administration of public affairs. On the other hand there should be no unfair opportunity allowed for the acquisition of the public land, the public money, or anything which belongs to the public at large, [Cheers.] We must take care that all shall bear their fair share of the burdens at present resting on the country, that those who leave the country shall contribute their fair share towards that which has contributed to their wealth—[cheers]—so that equality of wealth or equality of prospects will prevail in New Zealand for some years to come. Such an equality I mean that, the working man shall have a fair opportunity to rise to any position in the country if he has the merit to do so without any slur being cast upon a man who achieves position for being of humble parentage. Let me tell you that in the colony this is very necessary. In Q-reat Britain the number who rise to high estate from humble position are few indeed, but when a man does so they take every pride’in him, and glory when one rises from a humble position to prosperity and fame. [Cheers.] But speaking to you frankly, I must tell you this—that in_ the colony I have observed that there is a tendency to sneer at a man who has thus risen, it may bo by merit. [Cheers.]

If you do what I have sketched out to you this evening, you will see that a great nation will arise, and for all time you will be reverenced as the founders of a great nation. I have seen many colonies, and I may say that no colony has had such opportunities as this, in the matter of soil, climate, and people, of becoming a great power in the earth. This portion of the colony especially, has a great history. Colonised by men of the highest type of intellect, the future historian of New Zealand will turn with the greatest possible interest to the early history of this part of New Zealand. [Cheers.] You should not bely your early history; you should be the leader of men throughout the whole colony. [Cheers.] I have to apologise for speaking to you so long. [“ No, no,” and cheers.] What I have said to you to-night may, 1 trust, induce you to think seriously over the questions which I have discussed. [Cheers.] Allow me to thank you for the patience and cordiality with which you have listened tome this evening. [Loud and prolonged cheering.] Sir Q-eorge Grey resumed his seat amidst enthusiastic applause, which lasted several minutes.

Mr E. C. J. Stevens, M.H.R., rose, and said that when a gentleman occupying the position of Premier of the colony found time amidst his arduous duties to travel through the country and address the public upon the questions of the day, he thought it was only right that he should be thanked, and cordially thanked, for his attendance. [Cheers.] He, therefore, rose as one of the members for the city of Christchurch in the Assembly to ask them to pass a vote of thanks to Sir George Q-rey. [Cheers.] It was a particularly pleasant task for him to perform, for though not always agreeing with Sir George Grey in the views held by him on certain subjects, everyone must agree that they had listened that evening to a most eloquent address. [Cheers.] The subjects discussed, however, were of such importance that it was necessary they should take time to consider the whole question. In the course of a week or so he should have the pleasure of meeting his constituents, and then he should be able to make a few remarks upon the different points of policy put forward by the hon. gentleman. He trusted the subjects discussed would receive from them careful consideration; and that when they came to discuss them they might be able to come to a right decision. He did not intend to detain them longer, but would simply ask them to join him in a vote of thanks to Sir George Grey. [Cheers and a voice “and confidence.”] He begged to move —“ That the cordial thanks of this meeting be tendered to Sir George Grey for his address this evening.” [Cheers and cries of “ Montgomery.”] Mr Montgomery, who was loudly cheered on coming forward, said that Mr Stevens had moved a vote of thanks to the hon. gentleman who had addressed them. The Premier had given them a most eloquent address that evening, one perhaps from which some of them might dissent, but still they must all admit that the earnest desire of Sir George Grey was to advance the interests of the colony. Seeing this he thought they should add something to the vote of thanks. [Cheers.] They could, he felt sure, have confidence that the measures which the Premier had indicated would embody his desire for the welfare of the colony, and whilst reserving to himself, as a member of the House, the right to consider the Bills which would be introduced into Parliament, and to express his opinion upon them freely and independently, he would like to add to Mr Stevens’s motion the following :—“ That this meeting declares its confidence in the Government of Sir George Grey.” [Loud and prolonged cheering.] He thought that there could be no doubt of this, that the measures to be brought forward by Sir George would be, in his idea, the very best measures for the interests of the people. [Cheers.] He would now move the addition of the words he had stated to the resolution of Mr Steveus. [Loud cheers.] Dr. Turnbull, who commenced to speak from the body of the Hall but afterwards came on the platform, said that they had to-night heard for themselves a specimen of that oratory of which so much had been said and written. Nor could they say that the praise had been inordinate, because that evening they had learned that Sir George Grey could be graceful in diction as well as powerful in thought. [Cheers.] He could only say, for one, that Sir George commanded his admiration for the many noble qualities which he had devoted to to the public service. So great had been his services, and so persistent his advocacy of advanced liberal ideas, that it would be absurd in him (Dr. Turnbull), as a mere onlooker, to say that he stood on the same political platform. He had scarcely placed his foot upon the steps leading to the elevated sphere occupied by Sir George Grey as a reformer of evils, as an elevator of the masses, and an ameliorator of the manifold distresses of humanity, but in his own sphere he (Dr. Turnbull) had persistently advocated the principles enunciated by Sir George that evening. As a humble follower of Sir George Grey, and a radical to the backbone, he desired to take their minds back to the years between 1867 and 1870. [Uproar.] At that time, the condition of the population was a most gloomy one. Trade was stagnant, employment was scarce, and wages were low. What was the cause of this P Why, the absence of the greatest employer that Canterbury ever had, the land fund of Canterbury. [Uproar.] He contended that this having now gone for ever, the wages of the artizan would come down to 2s 6d per day. [Laughter and uproar ] He asked them now to consider whether the fund he had referred to had not given employment to hundreds of men. During the seven years he had spoken of there had been realised from land sales nearly two millions of money. Let them see what it had done for the labouring man. [Uproar. ) Public schools, public buildings, high schools, colleges, gaols, lunatic asylum, &c., laid been built, affording employment to hundreds of men. Besides this, there was the railway works, the contributions to Road Boards and municipalities, which enabled them to employ labour in winter when private enterprise was slack. What was now going to happen now that this great employer of labour was taken from them P [Uproar.] Ho would not detain them long, but he desired to put this matter clearly before them. Sir George Grey and the men who had taken their land fund—[uproar]—had estimated that the receipts from Canterbury for land sales this year would be £500,000 ; and what did this mean ? Why 5000 men deprived of employment at £IOO a year. This meant lower wages, failure of employment, and he said that the working men of Canterbury would find out when too late that he was stating facts. [Uproar.] The men who took that land fund said it was warranted by the exigencies of the State; but when they were hot with money borrowed from England, the people in Auckland and elsewhere said, take the land fund. [Uproar.] The people of Auckland and elsewhere were perfectly determined to seize that land fund. [Uproar.] He took a single sentence of the Premier’s speech that evening, altering one word of it. He would ask—“ \V r as it right for an honest province to put its hand into its neighbor’s pocket and take its money without its consent?” [Cheers.] This he thought was particularly applicable to Auckland taking their land fund. But the most remarkable point of it was this, that Auckland should come here and try to teach Canterbury what to do with their land. Auckland had sold two millions of acres of land for a quarter of a million of money, Otago the same amount for two millions. But what, had Canterbury done—who was to be taught how to deal with her land —why, she had sold the same quantity of land, and got nearlv four millions of money for it. [Cheers ] Yet Auckland was coming down here to teach Canterbury how to deal with their land. [L mghter and cheers ] He was terribly in earue-t, he could tell them, and he wished to ask them what had made the men who were wallowing in wealth, as had been said of Canterbury? Why, the legislation of 1853. By means of this, Moore of Glenmark, and others, had acquired their runs at 10s per acre, and not a living soul had been able to settle near the runs for years, or would be able to. When Colonel Campbell stood for the Superintendency in the fir-t election, the General Government Agent told

Mm to advocate the 10s per acre price for the land. The people of Canterbury, however, said to Mr Fitz Gerald “You stand as Superintendent and advocate £2 per acre, anc * did so. Now this was the reason of the great prosperity of Canterbury, far exceeding that of any part of the colony. Then, had they not a right to the £1 10s which they had secured over the Government price ? He said they had, and that those who robbed them ot it bad no right to do so. Looking at tho policy ot Auckland in seizing the land fund of Canterbury,|he said with reference to tb emotion of Mr Stevens, that he could not have confidence in a Government which was so inimical to Canterbury. [Uproar and hisses.] He would not detain them for very long, but he said this, that the incursion across the Alps in ancient times of the invading hordes was not so bad as this Alaric of the North sweeping away their land fund. [Uproar.] Was it statesmanship to do this ? [Uproar.] Was it statesmanship —[Renewed uproar, during which Dr Turnbull was only partially audible to the reporters. He was understood to continue as follows] —Was it statesmanship to drag down the prudent and the prosperous to the level of the indigent and reckless, to gratify the cupidity, the envy, the lust for wealth of the settlers of the North by throwing into their laps our land fund—a fund raised by voluntary taxation on ourselves. He said it was not statesmanship to concede this with the positive certainty of rancour, dissension, and strife in the South. It would be better, infinitely so, had Sir George used his brains and opportunities to construct rather than to destroy. It would have been better to have evolved a policy to compel the reckless and the indigent, by self-denial, to rise to the status of the prudent and the prosperous. As he had said, it resembled nothing more than the incursion of the hordes of Germany in the ancient times for this Alario of the North to sweep away the plains of Canterbury from its settlers, those settlers who had made the Canterbury plains by their rapidity of development a prominent feature in the history of nations. He was a Radical to the backbone, but he could never be a party to the repudiation of solemn contracts, the grossly unjust seizure of the funds of others, or the shallow subterfuges resorted to by Sir George Grey to cloak an injury done to a prudent and energetic people. "[Uproar and cheers.] Mr A. Saunders said he came forward to propose an amendment, which was as follows: “ That this meeting desires to express its warm thanks to Sir George Grey for his able and interesting address on questions affecting the welfare of this colony, and. for the efforts he is now making to arouse more general interest on the part of the New Zealand residents to the conduct of their own Government and the protection of their own public interests, and at the same time this meeting ■would express a hope that the representatives of this city will give to Sir George Grey’s views that careful and unbiassed consideration to which they are entitled, not only from their own intrinsic importance, but also from the ability and reputation of the statesmen by whom they are brought for- * ward.” [Loud and prolonged cheering.] After briefly touching upon the subjects discussed by Sir George Grey, Mr Saunders went on to ssy that there was a very ably conducted journal in that city which never lost an opportunity of having a fling at Sir George. [A voice—“ That’s the Pbess.”] Well, now they had an opportunity of judging for themselves, and though that journal was in the habit of depicting Sir George in the darkest possible colors, he thought they would agree with him that in this case the devil was not so black as he was painted. [Laughter and cheers.] Mr John Inglis said he desired to second the motion of Mr Stevens, so that it might be fairly put before the meeting. [Uproar,] What he desired to do was to second a vote of thanks to Sir George Grey. [Uproar and cheers.] Mr Rolleston next addressed the meeting but was repeatedly interrupted by uproar from various parts of the hall. He said he felt he should not be worthy of the position he had held in the province were he not to eay a few words. He could not let Mr Montgomery’s amendment pass by default, and thus give people an opportunity of saying that he had been a consenting party to the Sassing of a vote of confidence in Sir George rrey. [lnterruption.] He could not assent to the motion, and he felt it his duty to say bo plainly. [Uproar.] For weeks past they had been reading in the daily newspapers of Sir George Grey’s sayings. He had read with great attention those addresses delivered in various parts of the colony, and he eympalhised in a great deal of what he had given expression to. But he must say that those speeches were not such bs, he thought, commanded the confidence of the colony or of the people of Canterbury. [Continued interruption.] They had listened that evening to an exceedingly interesting and remarkable speech, but, if he was allowed to borrow the expression of an eminent man, he must say that this speech was most remarkable for the unspoken part of it. [Laughter, cheers, and uproar, during which the chairman appealed to the meeting ineffectually. Mr Jebson also attempted to speak, but notwithstanding the chairman’s announcement that he (Mr Jebson) rose to second Mr Montgomery’s amendment, the meeting would tolerate no remarks from him.] There were two or three points to which the attention of the meeting should be called, and which he would state in a few words. These points Sir G. Grey had not noticed, but he would no doubt have an opportunity before the proceedings terminated of enlightening the meeting upon them. One of those was regarding the course he had taken in respect of the honors conferred by her Majesty ot whom he had spoken as her most gracious Majesty that evening—upon two gentlemen, one of them well-known in Canterbury, [Cheers.] He (the speaker) wished Sir George Grey had told them, as he told the people of Tauranga, that he had determined to refuse those honors to be gazetted. [lnterruption.] Mr Rolleston then proceeded amid great confusion to say that the treatment of her Majesty’s representative since tho session by Sir George Grey was a most indecent spectacle. If their constitution was to he fairly worked, it must be worked by fair means. There must be straight running. There must be no secret Councils. Both Houses of Parliament had been set at nought by the Premier in a most unconstitutional manner. For these reasons—that the Queen, the Queen’s representative, both Houses of Parliament had been set at nought by the Prime Minister—he (Mr Rolleston) must decline to be party to a vote of confidence in Sir George Grey. [The uproar had now increased to such an extent that any further remarks were inaudible.] A person of the name of Buckley next ascended the platform, and proceeded to address the meeting in favor of manhood suffrage, but he was compelled to retire. Sir George Grey rose and was received with loud and continued cheering. By way of replv, ho said he must begin by returning his most grateful thanks to Mr Rolleston for having given him an opportunity of instructing his audience on one important subject. [Cheers.] He said that he (the speaker) had delayed the issue of the notice of the honors conLrred by Her Majesty on two learned ex-judges of this colony. * He wished to explain tliis subject fully, for it was of the deepest interest, to all the inhabitants of New Zealand. In this country there were no aristocracy distinctions whatever. [Cheers] The highest noble from Great Britain on arriving in New Zealand did not rank before their own statesmen here, but the latter took precedence of even the greatest Peer in England. [Cheers] The Co stitution Act asserted that all matters nS af h'g f ° the order, peace, and good government of the country were to be carried out. by laws enacted by the General Assembly, and assented to by tbe Queen herself. [Cheers.] Tn England the Queen could create no new rank whatever. It had been determined by both Housesof the Legislature that the Crown could create a peer, a ba<-onet, or a knightall ranks known to the Constitution—but that 41, could create no new order of aristocracy without the consent of the .English Parliament. That rule held with doqble force in Jsew Zealand. Tho Queen could pyeate a fcnight because knighthood was known to tfeo tbiirii'ution. She could create a life peer, England to flit w tho ffom

of Peers, but she could not create a now rank or dignity without the consent of the Legislature of the country in which that rank or dignity was called into existence. [Hear, hear.] Although they had been told that evening that the Queen had done a certain thing, they all knew that in point of fact her Majesty acted on the advice of her Ministers, and had nothing to do with the Act except giving a formal assent. The Queen had often had to assent to matters against her own feeling. For instance, when he (the speaker) was dismissed from the Governorship of the Cape her Majesty had assented; but in twelve or fourteen days he was reinstated on the representation of the Queen, when a new Ministry came into power and who were of her own opinion in the matter. [Cheers.] The principle had sprung up here without the Legislature or people of New Zealand having been consulted, of recommending to the Queen the creation of a new rank—a rank to his mind of a contemptible kind. [Laughter and cheers.] The rank was this—that the person elevated to it —a rank unknown to Great Britain —was to be called honorable for life within the limits of New Zealand, but out of it he carried his title nowhere with him. [Laughter.] He (the speaker) contended that men who in New Zealand distinguished themselves in the service of the Crown were as great as men who distinguished themselves in the service of the Crown in any part of the Empire, and he held this point—let them have equal rank or none. [Cheers.] He contended that the law said that no new rank could be created without the consent of the Legislature, and, therefore, until the people of New Zealand, through their representatives assembled in Parliament, consented to this new rank, he would not, on their behalf, give his consent to an Act which he considered unlawful. [Hear, hear, and cheers.] If the Crown could, on the advice of its Ministers, without the knowledge of the people of New Zealand, create new ranks and dignities of that kind, an aristocracy might be built up in the country without their consent. [Hear, hear, and cheers.] He was opposed to the creation of such an aristocracy. [Cheers.] If the majority of the inhabitants of New Zealand determined to have it, he would bow to their will, but until they determined to have such an aristocracy created, he would not secretly aid in building up a thing without their knowledge, the right of building up which rested with themselves alone. [Cheers.] His contention was this : —Let the empire be one, let the Queen’s subjects be one, and let the great men of the empire carry their rank through the empire with them, and no mere bastard creation. [Laughter, cheers, and hisses.] In doing what he had done he took the course which his duty to them prompted him to take, and if he had taken a contrary course he should be ashamed, and should feel that he deserved the indignation of the whole community of New Zealand. [Cheers.] Mr Cowlishaw asked Sir George Grey the reason why he had gazetted the notice. Sir George Grey said that he would give the answer in one moment. [Hear, hear, and laughter.] They would see that a friend had risen again to enable him to clear away all obscurity. [Laughter and cheers.] Two despatches came out, one with reference to the specific judges, the other a general one, relating to the notification being made to the people of New Zealand, that for all time that rule was laid down and that rank was established. The one despatch contained the names of the two judges, the other the general rule. He took issue on the general question, and had not published that despatch. He had in no way made himself a party to it. After long enquiry it was found that the previous Ministry had recommended those two judges to receive the honor, and had led her Majesty’s Secretary of State into the error which had been committed. He (the speaker) presumed that the advice sent from New Zealand had been adopted without enquiry. It was therefore represented to him that it would be unfair to get up a dispute with he Secretary of State in reference to this, and more particularly inasmuch as the latter had acted in what he believed was in conformity with the wishes of the people of New Zealand. The Governor also took a strong view on the subject, and to avoid all difficulties, what his (the speaker’s) predecessors had recommended he unwillingly allowed to be gazetted, but the general despatch he had positively refused to have gazetted, reserving it to be dealt with by Parliament in its next session. [Loud cheers and laughter, and a voice, “They don’t like that answer.”] He had cleared up that constitutional question for them, and the people of New Zealand must make up their minds whether or not the rewards to be given to the great men of New Zealand were to be the rewards of the inhabitants of the Empire elsewhere, to be borne through the Empire, and to be published by the London “ Gazette.” His argument and his answer were these. The general order he would not publish in the “New Zealand Gazette.” They had no power to compel him to do that. When the Queen conferred honors on great servants she notified those orders in the “ London Gazette.” They were known to the whole world, and the distinguished men were known through the vast empire which Great Britain governed. [Cheers ] He would say this, that the moment a notification was made in the “London Gazette ” of the honor done to a New Zealand citizen, an honor running through the Empire and known to the Empire, then tpo gladly would he publish that notification in the “ New Zealand Gazette.” But this new bastard aristocracy! [Cheers and laughter.] They had titles given them in their own limits alone, and a man would be an impostor if he went even to Australia and carried his title along with him. [Cheers and loud laughter.] Mr Eolleston bad given him an opportunity of clearing up another point. He commented very seriously on his (the speaker’s) conduct in having advised the Governor to have disallowed an Act which was assented to by both Houses of Parliament. The constitution protected the rights of all classes of Her Majesty’s subjects. In the event of a law being passed which might be calculated to do injury to any one class, then the Crown reserved to itself the right of disallowing that Aoj:—[cheers] —and it had not hesitated on other occasions to avail itself of that power. In the case referred to by Mr Rolleston, a law was passed against every exertion which he (the speaker) could make, which secured to the Canterbury runholders tbpir runs for thirteen years, and this without any reference to the people of the province interested. [Cheers.] He availed himself of his undoubted rig|it as Mi: ‘ster, and ftdyised the Crown to protect the rights of the people of Canterbury by disallowing it, until the matter was referred to them. [Cheers.] By that he did no harm to any one. It was a question of delay for only a few months. It did not touch the runholders. If the law were disallowed they were still left with their rights untouched till 1880. He thought it his duty to find out the wish of the people themselves on the subject, and in his desire to secure that he had availed himself of the right the constitution gave him to advise its disallowance, [Cheers.] If his conduct had been displeasing to thp country they could get rid of him. If he did what yyas indtwful and unconstitutional, or what they thought ’was not right, he could be got rid of easily at the next session of Parliament. There was another reason which actuated him, He tried to prevent the Act passing, and to get an appeal made to them by asking for a dissolution of Parliament, which according to English rule and custom he was entitled to. [Cheers.] He was told however he should not have that right, and in equally plain terms he was told that colonial statesmen were not to be trusted in the same manner as English statesmen were, He hud, therefore, taken his stand resolutely on the right he hud, that if he could not get justice Hone to the people of that community he would have recourse to the last expedient, to advise the disallowance of the Act, and appeal to the constituencies afterwards. [Loud and continued cheering.] The Chairman then put the amendment of Mr Montgomery —“ That the Government of Sir George Grey have the confidence of this meeting,” which was carried amid loud applause, thirty or forty hands only being held up against it. The amendment of Mr Saunders was not seconded. . . £ vote of thanks, proposed by Sir G. Grey fa tho chairman, terminated thp ptogqcdicgg,