CORRESPONDENCE BETWEEN THE GOVERNOR AND MINISTERS.

Globe, Volume VIII, Issue 1052, 10 November 1877, Page 3

CORRESPONDENCE BETWEEN THE GOVERNOR AND MINISTERS.

[Bv Telgraph.] Wellington, November 9. The following is & precis of correspondence between the Governor and the Ministers respecting the privilege question forwarded to the House with this met age; — “ The Governor regrets he is unabl ? to give a definite reply to the address presented by the House of Representatives announcing the concurrence of the House in the report of the Select Committee appointed to search for precedents, and to report to the House in relation to the question of privilege raised by Mr Stout —‘That the action of His Excellency the Governor in noticing a matter in agitation or debate in the House as a reason for refusing to accede to advice tendered by his Ministers, was an infringement of the privileges of the House.’ Because in the course of the correspondence which he now presents to Parliament a question of constitutional law has arisen which the Governor considers absolutely necessary shall be submitted for the consideration of the Secretary of State for the Colonies, before he can take upon himself to accept the resolution passed by the House of Representatives. The Governor begs to assure the House he does this out of no disrespect to their decision, but simply in defence of what he believes to be a most important constitutional principle. If the Governor should be wrong in the conclusion he has formed, he can assure the House that nothing was further from his intention than in any way to trench upon their privileges. Wellington, Bth November, 1877.” The Governor commences the correspondence by asking the advice of Ministers as to the answer he should give to the address of the House, to which Ministers reply:— “Ministers respectfully advise His Excellency to return the following answer to the House of Representatives:— ‘ The Governor, from a resolution transmitted to him in an address from the House of Representatives, learns that he has infringed the privileges of of that branch of the Legislature. The Governor trusts that from his unintentional act and his proceedings in relation thereto, the benefit may result that a precedent will have been established which may bo useful in the future.’—G. Grey, sth November, 1877.” THE GOVERNOR TO MINISTERS. “ The Governor has received the memorandum in which Sir George Grey, on the part of the Government, tenders to him their advice as to the answer he should give to the address from the House of Representatives, md the Governor must request that the Government will reconsider that advice, for the following reasons, viz : “1. That constitutionally it is the Government and not the Governor who are soleh •esponsible to Parliament for acts of the Governor.

“2. That if the memo of the Governor t< his Ministers on the subject of the appointmeii of Mr Wilson to the Legislative Counci did contain any breach of privilege, it was, i the first instance, a strictly secret and cor fidential communication between the Goverm and his constitutional advisers, and if the-' saw that the Governor had unintentionally, ii any way, infringed upon the privilege of the

House, it was their duty, under the oath which they took as Executive Councillors, to 'iave pointed out the fact to the Governor, when he would most readily |have recon•idered the answer which he had given. “ 3. That the presentation of the paper was done solely on the advice, in writing, of Sir George Grey, and that therefore Ministers are solely responsible.” SIR GEORGE GREY TO THE GOVERNOR. “ His Excellency having asked Ministers for a reply to memo, relative to the advice they offered to him as to his answer to the resolution of the House of Respresentatives, Ministers beg respectfully to state : “1. That they admit their responsibility for His Excellency’s acts, when done on their advice. “ 2. That out of respect for His Excellency they refrain from offering him any further advice when he had twice rejected that which they had given him, but they do not think that in refraining from doing so they committed any breach of oath which they took on entering office as Executive Councillors, and they feel sure that on a reperusal of that oath His Excellency will modify bis opinion on that point. “ 3. They admit and accept the responsibility of laying the paper before Parliament, but beg respectfully to point out that the resolution of the House does not say that that proceeding was a breach of its privileges. “ Ministers are, however, unwilling to press His Excellency to accept advice upon a matter of this kind with which he does not fully concur, and therefore they respectfully beg to advise that the enclosed message be substituted for that previously sent to him: ‘The Governor has received the resolution of the House of Representatives by which ho is informed that he has inadvertently committed a breach of the privileges of that House. The House is constitutionally the guardian of its own privileges. The Governor having now called Mr Wilson to the Legislative Council, in accordance with his promise to his advisers, he does not think it will answer any useful purpose to discuss the question any further, but he will transmit the papers to the Secretary of State for the Colonies.” THE GOVERNOR TO SIR G, GREY. “The Governor acknowledges receipt of Sir G. Grey’s further memo, of this day’s date, and is glad to learn that the Government agree with him, and admit their constitutional responsibility to Parliament for the acts of the Governor when done on their advice. The Governor, however, cannot admit that their responsibilty should be so limited, because if the act of the Governor is such that the Government cannot accept or defend it, it is their duty to resign, in order that the Governor be able if he can to form a Government who would support his views, in which case he would have of course to justify his conduct to the Secretary of State, to whom he is alone responsible. In this present instance the Government and the Governor thinks rightly —did not consider that his refusal to appoint Mr Wilson to the Legislative Council was a matter of sufficient importance to induce them to resign, and thereby they accepted his decision, and became responsible for his act, and the whole question should have then ended, or they should have further pressed their advice upon him. Neither can the Governor modify the view which he has expressed that the Government were by the oath which they took as Executive Councillors bound when they saw that he had unintentionally given reasons which might be construed into a breach of privileges, to have pointed out the fact to him. The appointment or not appointment of Mr Wilson was totally different to the question as to whether the Governor had unintentionally infringed the privileges of the House. The Governor has far too many years held a seat in one branch or other of the British Parliament to wish for one moment to infringe upon the privileges of the House of Representatives, and could he admit that he is the person responsible to Parliament, he would not for one moment hesitate to express his regret that most unintentionally he had infringed their privileges. The Governor, however, considers that the constitutional principle for which he contends—viz., ‘ that Ministers, so long as they retain office, are alone responsible to Parliament for the acts of the Governor’—is of such vital importance to the future good government of the colony, and for the position held by Her Majesty’s representatives, that he feel that he would be recreant to his duty, and utterly unworthy of the position which he holds, if he permitted the question to drop, and did not try to the utmost of his power to have the matter finally and definitely settled. This question or privilege is now no longer a matter ‘in agitation or debate ’in the House. The Governor has been informed officially by the Hon. the Speaker of the decision of the House * * * and are officially before him. He can, therefore, now refer to the matter in his connection with his Minister without any fear of committing a breach a privilege. The absolute responsibility of Ministers to Parliament for the acts of a Governor is a question which has so often been decided, and is so well understood iu England, that the Governor did not expect to find it disputed. The necessity and justice of this rule are obvious. In working out mathematical problems, it is not ■ unusual to demonstrate the point by showing the absurdity of any other conclusion, and the Goveror would venture in his case to prove his point tn that way. As an illustration he will take ihe case which has just occurred. The Governor refused the advice of members to appoint Mr Wilson to the Legislative Council. By his instructions, and according to numerous precedents, he had a perfect right to take that course. The Government, as he thinks rightly, did not consider it a case of sufficient importance to necessitate their resignation, and there the matter would have ended. The Governor was not obliged to give any reasons to his Ministers for the course he had taken, but he thought it more honest and more respectful to them to do so informally. In so doing he used expressions which were afterwards construed into a breach of privilege. The Government did or did not see this. The Governor is perfectly ready to assume that they did not, as he should be very sorry indeed to impute (o them any intention of entrapping him. Al the same time the Government must ban had some reasons for wishing for the pro luctiou of the papers, and so little did tin Governor see any public necessity for it tha ic was on the point of refusing his consem md only refrained from doing so because h. id not like for the second time to refus their advice. The papers were laid on tin ,ible of the House, and immediately the question of privilege was raised the Governor,

by the privilege of the House, was not supposed to know what was going on. He had no voice in the House. He was not in any •vay allowed to explain his conduct or to produce evidence or precedent in his favor. He could not employcounsel, and the Government, by whose advice the papers were published, and who are his constitutional defenders in the House, either took part against him or re mained in silence and refused him their assistance. The Governor was condemned unheard, and an address was presented to him by the House expressing its disapproval of what he had done, A criminal, on the other hand, no matter what crimes he may have committed, is, in the first place, by the English law presumed to be innocent. He is brought face to face with his accusers. He is present at his trial. He may produce evidence of his innocence, and employ counsel, and even before sentence is passed he is permitted to urge any reasons that he may think fit in mitigation of his sentence. The Governor would ask whether these two cases do not prove incontestably the absolute necessity for the constitutional rule which the Government contends does exist, viz., that it is the Government and not the Governor who must, so long as they remain his advisers, be solely responsible to Parliament for his acts. Is it not absurd to contend that her Majesty’s representative should be condemned unheard, and that he should be put on his defence in a more unfavorable position than that in which the worst criminal in the colony could possibly be placed. This question as to the extent to which the Government are responsible to Parliament for the acts of the Governor, is one which cannot possibly be decided in the colony. The Governor has therefore decided to forward the whole case for the consideration and decision of the Secretary of State for the Colonies, by whose decision he is bound to abide, and he will have much pleasure in forwarding at the same time any representations that the Government may wish to make. “If the Governor has urged his case somewhat strongly, he begs that Sir G, Grey will clearly understand that he looks upon it simply as a political and not a personal question, which he is bound to press to the best of his ability, though he trusts without the slightest expectation [? irritation]. As regards the answer to the House of Representatives, the Governor proposes to send a message something to the effect of this one he encloses.

“ In conclusion, the Governor would wish to state that, in reply to a telegram from himself he has heard from Sir Hercules Robinson that a precedent which appears very nearly similar did occur to Lord Belmoro, and that his action was approved of by the Secretary of State. The Governor wishes to place no stress upon this information, as he has not been able to find the case, and does not know how far it may be parallel, but it is his intention, if the case has been published, to request Sir H. Robinson to furnish him with a copy as soon as possible. “ P.S.—Unless the Governor hears that Sir G. Grey wishes to make any further remarks, the Governor proposes to send his message to the House of Representatives this evening.—Government House, Wellington, Bth November.” SIR G. GREY TO THE GOVERNOR. “ Ministers respectfully represent to the Governor that the questions which they have had to consider were—Can the Governor, finding that a notice of a vote of want of confidence in the Government has been given, decline to take the advice of his responsible advisers on the ground that such a vote is pending, and was ho justified in holding that he could not accept their advice until the decision of the Assembly on that vote had been given. If such is the constitutional law, nothing is necessary but to raise successive votes of want of confidence in the Government to enable the Governor to act for long periods of time without responsible advisers. Ministers respectfully state they cannot admit that the Governor is responsible to the Secretary of State in this matter, nor can they admit that the question as to the extent to which Government are responsible to the Assembly for the acts of the Governor, is one which cannot be decided in New Zealand, On the contrary, they feel it to bo their duty respectfully to protest against the points at issue being decided anywhere else, unless the,consent of the General Assembly is obtained to the reference of those points to some external authority. The Secretary of State for the Colonies is only, in their opinion, for such a purpose, an authority unknown to the constitution of New Zealand. Ministers would respectfully solicit the attention of the Governor to the 23rd section of the Constitution Act, from which it will be found that the words ‘ General Assembly’ comprise His Excellency the Governor himself, who is by law a constitutional part of that body. Ministers respectfully add that they have already advised His Excellency regarding the message they think he should return to the address of the House of Representatives, and they have nothing to add to that advice.” THE GOVERNOR TO SIR G. GREY. “The Governor acknowledges receipt of Sir G. Grey’s further memo, of this day’s date, and ho would point out that the Secretary of State is the only constitutional channel through whom the commands of the Crown are conveyed, and who is responsible to the British Parliament for the advice he may give to her Majesty, and as the Governor at any rate feels bound to obey the command of her Majesty, whom he has the honor to represent in this colony, he still maintains that it is his duty to submit this case for the consideration of the Secretary of State. The Governor has referred to the 23rd section of the Constitution Act to which Sir George Grey has called his attention, and he would point out that it simply places the Governor, as her Majesty’s representative, in exactly tne same position as regards the Parliament of New Zealand as that which is hold by the Queen as regards the Parliament of England. The Governor must adhere to the determination which he has announced to the Government, and will lay the whole correspondence before Parliament this evening, and by next mail he will forward the whole case for the consideration of the Secretary of State for the colonies.”

of the country. They refuse to let the vote of no-confidence come on, and will resort to every Parliamentary tactics to keep it off. On this Major Atkinson said that the Opposition would proceed with no business until the vote of no-confidence was considered, but they would take a division on that as soon as the Government liked. The Government were defeated twice yesterday on the question of adjournment. The whole sitting was very lively, with some capital speaking on both sides. Things have now almost assumed the position of a dead-lock. Supplies will be exhausted next week, and the Opposition will oppose any further supplies until the confidence of the House in the Government be tested.

Since the House met to-day Mr Travers has given notice of an amendment to Mr Stout’s motion re privilege, censuring the Government for their action in the matter. Mr Lusk entered upon his personal explanation, which will take some time. The whole town is making holiday except the House of Representatives.