GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Globe, Volume VIII, Issue 1042, 27 October 1877, Page 2

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

[By Telegraph.]

HOUSE OE EEPEESENTATIYES. Friday, October 26. MAJOE ATKINSON’S MOTION OF NO CONFIDENCE. AMENDMENT BY ME EEYNOLDS. Mr Eeynolds gave notice that when the hon. member for Egmont moved his motion of want of confidence in the G-overnment, he would move as an amendment—“ That, the Government having not yet declared their policy, the House declines in the meantime to entertain any vote of want of confidence in the Ministry.”

Major Atkinson said : In the first speech which the hon. gentleman at the head of the Government delivered after his accession to office, he was pleased to describe this House as a really august assembly —an assembly commanding the confidence, and justly commanding the confidence and respect of the country, and one whose duty among other things it was to determine whether he and his colleagues were the proper persons to put as leaders of this House. This being the case, I count this evening upon his assistance to bring the motion which I beg to submit for the consideration of this House to a definite conclusion, for, sir, there can be no one in this House who is more deeply interested in ascertaining the fact whether or not he possesses the confidence of this Assembly, I should not have thought to trouble the House at any great length, but. shall content myself with submitting two or three reasons which seem to me amply conclusive in the direction in which I wish this House to go. In the first place, it appears to me that though the hon. gentleman occupies the position of head of the Government by the vote of a majority of this House, it is perfectly certain and beyond dispute that there were more gentlemen who voted upon the late division against the late Government than the majority which displaced them, who would not so have voted if they had believed that the hon. gentleman would succeed to power. If this is true, or if there is a suspicion that it is true, I will ask the hon. gentleman whether he desires to occupy that place in that position when he has been challenged and told that he does not possess the confidence of the House. I will ask him whether he will be prepared to accept the amendment of the hon. member for Port Chalmers, or whether, looking at the views he has always enunciated, it will not be the more manly course to vote against that resolution, and come definitely to a conclusion to-night and ascertain whether or not he has the confidence of the House. But putting this aside for a moment, let us suppose that the hon. gentleman did obtain his seat by a small majority, then I say that even if that is true he has altogether failed to collect around him such a Ministry as this House can have confidence in. It is quite evident, and indeed it is common talk, that the hon. gentleman cannot even command the services of [the best men in his own party. I should like to know why, if the hon. gentleman has the real confidence of his party, the hon. member for Akaroa is not now Colonial Treasurer, and I should like also to know why the hon. member for Auckland City East is not Attorney-General. He is a gentleman who, as we know, is ready at any time to fall down and worship at the feet of the hon. gentleman, or to do anything which he is told to do. Why has he been set aside ? Then let us look at the arrangements which were made in another place. There we have the distinct statement of the gentleman who represents the Government in the Legislative Council that he has undertaken the duty very reluctantly, and only for the purpose of getting them out of a difficulty, and that he only considers himself bound to them till the end of the session. And even now the Government have been a fortnight in office and they have been unable to fill up the whole of their seats, although they claim to have a majority. In this House they are actually unable or unwilling to disclose their hands too much. At any rate they are unable or unwilling to fill the whole of their offices. Then another reason why this House should not have confidence in the hon. gentleman is that he has already departed from some cardinal points of the policy which he laid down to this House as essential, or he has entirely failed to apprehend the importance of them. The hon. gentleman in the speech in which he shadowed forth the policy of the Government, said that one great desire of his Government was to have a thorough sifting and investigation into the finances of the colony. The dark places were to be made light; all the misdoings of of the late Government were to be exposed ; and the hon. gentleman in order to do this, was prepared it necessary to defy the House and to retain those seats until he had an opportunity of doing it, and till the finances were placed in a perfectly clear and simple light before the public. It is possible that the hon. gentleman may be able to put them in such a light that no other person has yet been able to put them in, and if he does that he will certainly receive my thanks, for I too have endeavoured to do so to the best of my ability. While I was in the Treasury I have enaeavoured with all the power I possessed to make things simple and clear. I have endeavoured to do that, and I was willing at all times to give full information to anybody upon the subject, either privately or in public, and if the hon. gentleman, as he says, is able to put the finances in a better light, the thanks of the country will be due to him. Another point which he laid great stress upon was that the public works were to be carried on with economy and vigour ; that the Government, profiting by the experience and shortcomings of former Governments, would be in a better position than any Government had been in to carry "them on with vigour and economy. The finances were to be made simple, and a thorough investigation was to take place upon them, and the public works were to be prosecuted with economy and vigour. Now, .Sir, how lias the hon. gentleman proceeded to give effect to this desire? and 1 know somohatof the working of both of these departments. There are other hon. gentlemen :n this House who also know what work in those two departments is, and I venture to say that there is not an hon. member who knows anything of the work that is to be done in those offices who would pretend to say that either office was not more than enough for an ordinary man during the session time. Then what does the hon. gentleman proceed to do ? Starting with the assertion that both of thepe offices arc not w proper

working order, and that everything from the very root requires revision and exposure, what does the hon. gentleman do with two offices, either of which would tax the strength of any hon. member in this House ? He confers them upon a gentleman who is absolutely without political experience, and who has never taken any but a very languid interest in public questions ; and that hon gentleman freely accepts the duty. He undertakes to do the work during the session. He undertakes to give us a full exposition of the finances and to carry on the public works with economy and despatch. Sir, can wc believe that hon. gentleman has really apprehended the magnitude of the task he has undertaken when w r e find him take such steps as these to give effect to what he professes to do? I would say that any hon. member, by accepting such duties as these, shows his absolute unfitness for either office, and I will say that it must make it exceedingly doubtful to this House whether the hon. member is really competent to perform them. I would ask who would make such an appointment for such purposes? We have already seen the effect of this. The hon. gentleman at the head of the Government, when he first addressed this House, told us that we should have the financial statement down either the next day or very shortly afterwards. The Hon. the Colonial Treasurer told us a few days after that we should get it in a day or two; he fixed last Monday or Tuesday; and then, when Monday or Tuesday came, he put it off for another week, to no definite day, but for another week, to enable him, as he said, to ascertain the facts relating to the finances. Now I say that this statement shows the hon. gentleman entirely misapprehended the task which he had to perform. The facts of the finances of the colony are patent to everyone. The accounts are published as audited; the facts upon which the hon. gentleman can base any finance for the future are ready to his hand in any shape that he wishes at any moment. If he had told us that he wanted time to devise some scheme to get over the difficulty which he has caused by abandoning part of the revenue which I intended to use, I could have understood his position; but even then he could have had no ground for the delay which he has asked. If we are to take his own statement upon the motion of no confidence, he thoroughly understood the finances. He was pleased to describe mine as unprincipled and hand to mouth finance, and to say that the proposal to take any portion of the Canterbury and Otago revenue was very near public plunder, if not quite. I say when the hon. gentleman undertook to move a vote of no confidence, knowing if it was carried that he would have the responsibility of forming a government—when, I say, he undertook to describe the finance of his opponent in that manner—this House had a reasonable right to expect that he had made himself thoroughly acquainted with the finances, and was prepared to submit to us a substitute for that which he had condemned. And further, among the party of the hon. gentleman at the head of the Government there are, I think, something like five great financiers. There is the hon. member for Parnell, there is the hon. member for Auckland city east, there is the hon. member for Akaroa, and the hon. member at the head of the Government is the most shining light of all, and lastly, there is the hon. the Colonial Treasurer. Now with such a galaxy of talent as that, with gentlemen who told us that they were in a position and capable of making a financial statement without any preparation whatever, was it not reasonable to expect that at this period of the session ten days would have been ample for those hon, gentlemen to work out the scheme they desired to propose; and yet what did the hon. gentleman do ? He declined altogether to fix a date. From time to time he put it off, and he makes this House believe —a majority of this House are undoubtedly under the impression—that the hon. gentleman had no intention of making a financial statement at all. Sir, the House was under that impression—l say that the majority of this House is under that impression—and the vote which we will take to-night will show it. Another reason why they are under that impression is this, the Hon, the Colonial Treasurer, when he told us in that off-hand way that he had not yet made, himself thoroughly acquainted with the facts, although he could describe my finance in the terms which I have indicated, he told us at the time he was prepared to go on with the Estimates of the late Government. There was never a word that he was going to cut them down, alter them, or do anything else with them. He said in that simple manner for which he is now noted, that he was prepared to go on with the ordinary Estimates of the Government. Now ask any hon. member whether that did not really indicate that the hon. gentleman, having looked all round, was prepared to accept the financial position as it stood, and so relieve himself from that duty. If, at any rate we have been misled, ithas certainly been i by the hon. gentlemen on those benches. Then, sir, I am told by the followers of the hon. gentleman —it has been freely talked about I am told—that although this is not much of a Government that we have now got, there are great materials in the party, and that if we will only wait a short time, and specially until the end of the session, we shall see a Government of which New Zealand will be proud. Well, I confess for one, I am not prepared to wait for that time, I for one am not prepared to place in the hands of the hon. member for the Thames the power to select colleagues after this House has risen. There may be hon. gentlemen who are prepared to do that. I do not wish to quarrel with them for it at all; but I claim my right, as a representative of New Zealand, to know the Government under which we are to pass the recess. The objection has been taken, and I know it weighs with some hon. members, and evidently with the hon. member for Port Chalmers, that we have been too quick in moving a resolution of want of confidence, and that we ought to have waited until the hon. gentlemen had more fully explained their policy. I myself hardly know what we were to have waited fox’. We have had one policy already stated by the hon, gentleman at the head of the Government, and we had another policy stated in another place —one, that we may term a fairly radical policy; the other, an absolute assertion that it was Die most Conservative Government that had ever iHsUd in New Zealand. Then 1 presume wc are to wait for a third policy in order to harmonise and reconsider these two diverse policies. To my mind it would be absolutely useless to wait at this period of the session. When hon. gentlemen are stopping with very great difficulty, and especially those who are engaged in country pursuits, it appears to me it would bo entirely unreasonable to give those hon. gentlemen longer time than we have done. As I have said, we have already had two policies, aud the only thing we have to wait for ie

either a reconciliation of those two or a finan ■ cial statement, and, as I have already shown, we have no reason to believe that we shall get any financial statement at all. I ask why are we to put hon. members to the inconvenience and delay of waiting any longer when, by the course I have pursued, we shall necessitate those hon. gentlemen if they have any financial policy to bring it forward, and if they have not then to expose those wonderful shortcomings in the Treasury, in regal’d to which they have spread insinuations throughout the country, I challenge them, as I have already challenged them, to bring down their financial policy or their exposition of the shortcomings of the late Government. I would ask any lion, gentlemen who are inclined to vote for the amendment of the hon. member for Port Chalmers why we should wait—why we should put hon. gentlemen to the inconvenience of further staying away from their homes, in order that the hon. gentleman who does not, I believe, possess the confidence of this House, who did not obtain his seat by a vote of the majority of this House ? I ask why are we to delay the business of the country in order to give the lion, gentleman an opportunity of giving us a second or a third policy, whichever it may be P Undoubtedly as a party move, and had there been time, it would have been a very great advantage for the Opposition to have waited until those hon. gentlemen had displayed their hands more fully. But as I say there was absolutely no time, and by the dilatory action of the Government we have been compelled to take the course we have done. We are told that the present Government have done more work in ten days than we did in two or three months; hut, sir, I would ask what is the work they have done ? They have discharged many of the Bills which we have put on the Order Paper, and they have carried with our assistance other Bills which we also put on the order paper. That is the great work which those hon. Jgentlemen have done. I have no hesitation inlaying that the Hon. the Native Minister, who, if he will allow me to give him another title, I would also call the Minister for Bills, has displayed wonderful ability in obtaining a superficial knowledge of the Bills which we have passed through ; but he must know himself that the knowledge he obtained of those measures in the short time at his disposal, was only superficial, and ho could not possibly have defended any one of those Bills against any opposition by us or anyone who knew anything about them. I hope we shall hear more of the great work those hon. gentlemen have done in the ten days they have been in office. I do "not propose to go into the general policy of the hon. gentleman at the head of the Government. I might indicate great inconsistencies between his statement the other day and the statements he has repeatedly made as leader of the Opposition ; but I think I have adduced amply sufficient reasons to induce lion, members to pass the resolution of which I had the honor to give notice. I have shown, and no doubt the hon. gentlemen opposite will be able to disprove it, that he does not possess the confidence of the House. He has obtained his position, not only not by the vote of the majority of this House, but he has not the absolute confidence of a majority of his own party, so far as to be able to command the services of the best men of that party. I have shown that if the hon. gentleman was sincere in the point of his statement upon which he laid so much stress —namely, that the finance was to be thoroughly sifted and discussed, and then the public works were to be carried out with vigor and economy —lie has entirely failed to take any stops in that direction; that by conferring the appointment upon one man, lie has made it impossible that the great object of his desire can be given effect to. I have shown that the accusation that we were precipitate in bringing forward this motion is without any ground ; that in fact if we were not prepared to waste the time of the hon, gentlemen to a much greater extent than has already been done, we were bound with the least possible delay to find out whether those hon. gentlemen had the confidence of the House or not. I trust these reasons will he considered amply sufficient to induce hon. members to support the resolution which I have the honor now to submit. Mr Reynolds here moved his amendment. Sir G. Grey —Sir, a curious sensation stole over me during the delivery of the speech of the hon. member for Egmont. I camp here expecting to have to reply to a speech of a very different character. X felt in fact that I was a gentle lamb drinking at a stream of water, and that there was a great wolf stirring up the stream, accusing me of it, and determining to gobble me up if he could. He seemed determined to find some fault, but I had no fear that I should not be able to resist his attacks, and I have no fear now. The hon. member for Egmont has made the accusation that I have not been placed on these benches by the votes of a majority of this House. Sir, it is not at all unusual, when an hon. gentleman is requested to form a Ministry, that he should decline the principal office himself, and select some other gentleman as chief. That is a constitutional rule —a rule which is ccmsfanaly observed, and one which was followed on the present occasion. Another ground of objection was that X was unable to obtain the assistance of the greatest minds of my own party. To that I reply that the statement is absolutely inaccurate. It is perfectly true that I was unable to obtain the assistance of the hon. member for Akaroa; but that gentleman declined to join me for reasons which were honorable to himself, and for which I have no reason to be ashamed. [Mr Montgomery —“ Hear, hear,”] With regard to other hon. gentlemen who compose the party with which I have the honor to act, it must be known to all the inhabitants of New Zealand that they combine amongst theiq a vast amount of ability, knowledge, upd Parliamentary power. One or two of thf-se gentlemen aid decline to join the Government at present for reasons honorable to themselves, honorable to me, honorable to this House, and honorable to the country. They said they had recently become members of the party, and that it should never he oaid that they had determined to help me }n carrying out my views from desire to hold office. They declined solely on that account. Contrast that conduct., sir, with the conduct of some of those hon. gentlemen who occupy the Opposition benches. Other hon. gentlemen belonging to my party told me that they desired not to take office in order that 1 might, if possible, ultimately constitute a Government composed of gentlemen from every provincial district of New Zealand. They told me, sir, that my enemy, the great wolf, would try to swallow me up if I took any other course. The one universal thing said to me by all the gentlemen was this—“ Neglect us ; wo ask for nothing ; wo desire the welfare of the country ; don’t pht me into office and thus disappoint the inhabitants of all

portions of the colony, who might see their own districts not represented in the Government. All the ability we have shall be at your service, whether in ollice or out of office. What wo wish for is the prosperity of New Zealand, not office for ourselves.” The hon. member for Auckland City East was specially alluded to. That, sir, was his language amongst others. Contrast that conduct with the conduct of some hon, members on the Opposition side of the House, who yearn for office at any sacrifice of principles. Sir, I am glad this great occasion has arisen, because many questions of importance will now be considered, questions which must form a precedent for all time to come. The House is ranging itself into two great parties, and the first question to be decided is what constitutes political honesty P What examples during this debate are to be given to the country at large and to all future ages ? Upon these benches and on that'sidc of the House sit hon. gentlemen who, unasked by me, pledged themselves in solemn terms and in friendly language to give me their support throughout this session. I am told they intend to break these pledges. I do not believe that such political baseness exists in this House. There are other gentlemen who, at the meeting of the party —I was not present myself, because I took no part in these proceedings—but I am assured that there are other gentlewho at those meetings pledged themselves to support throughout the present session any Government that might take the places occupied by the hon. member for Egmont and his party. I will not believe that those gentlemen will depart from those pledges until I see them in the lobby against me. Let the question be determined what constitutes political honor, political honesty, and political morality. We have to determine what is to be the example to be given to New Zealand for all time. That is the one great question which must be decided on this occasion. Then, Sir, there are other great questions to be decided. Hon. gentlemen on my side of the House who think with me have been taunted with what are called their conservative principles. Sir, we care nothing for such taunts. We are determined to establish a policy for the people, a policy for the country at large. We have resolved that in New Zealand there shall be a party of progress, and not a party of conservative notions. Sir, what is conservatism P It is a time-honoured institution, a difference of rank established by the usage of centuries, an institution comprised of all those elements which constitute conservatism in a great monarchial country. With them, sir, conservatism is a conservatism of place and power, a conservatism of privilege which they have usurped to themselves above their fellow subjects in this country, a conservatism of acquiring place and a public wealth. Let them strive to preserve that; let them strive to keep their fellow countrymen out of a duo share of the influence and direction of public affairs in this House, and we will try to allow the people to have that fair share of the direction of public affairs. For years they have withheld advantages from their fellow men and heaped these advantages on their friends. I will strive to do my best to initiate a policy by which equal laws may exist in this country for all; laws under which every family may hope to obtain its home and its land, and under which the best of the land of the country shall not be given to the friends of the Government. A new era is dawning, new times are coming, and, as will soon be found in this House, new principles will prevail; and I believe that in New Zealand will be established that great principle that all men have equal rights in the property and in the lands of the colony ; that the lands are the property of all, and not the property of a party of squatters, and there are in this country thousands who will leap to their feet and aid myself and my friends in the struggle we are engaged in. I do not fear that when we appeal, as I think will be necessary, to the constituencies, but what one triumphant voice will shout to me the reply “ If you are told you have not the voice of a majority of the House, yon shall be elected by the majority of the people of New Zealand, you shall be supported by their voices and their authority in claiming for them those rights to which they are entitled.” I feel sure that the time is coming when these principles must be carried out, I care nothing for the taunts we have heard this night. I know the objects we have in view are great; I feel sure that they will commend themselves to all liberal minds, not only at the present day but in all time to come, and I am contented patiently and earnestly to struggle on for these ends, certain that in due time they will be attained. The position I hold is not an enviable one. We have been taunted amongst other things with not having rapidly developed our financial system, and the hon. gentleman went on to say that we should deserve well of the whole colony if we put the accounts bcfoi’e the inhabitants of New Zealand in a simpler form —if we had placed the accounts of the colony before the people in such a form that they ipight be understood by all ; and he admitted that hp himself had failed in doing so. Hut when nyy hon. friend the other night described accurately the hon. gentleman’s financial scheme, lie expressed extreme anger with him for having used accurate language. Sir, the accounts of this country are understood by none, and can be understood by none, except experts. The system of tranfers from one account to another is such that as a whole they arc incomprehensible to any but a person who is really an expert in reference to them, and the public of New Zealand lias been greatly misled by the accounts put befoyp them—accounts absolutely unintelligible. On one occasion lately, wbjlfi frying tq understand gomp qf thesp accounts, t came across thp ■ provincial liabilities account, and found get down sums as provincial receipts which were really not receipts at all ; in some instances sums borrowed out of loan. Many of the accounts are absolutely deliigiye, absolutely deceptive except jq qq expert, and even to an, woqid he incomprehensible pnlpgs ebon item is taken and resolved into the separate component parts, which would be an extremely difficult task. Can it be maintained that if I was to be relieved from a task of this kind that | lo mo it would be anything but a great relief? Can it be imagined that 1 would willingly jump into n gull of troubles of ibis nature? Sir, I have no wish for office k* gratify personal ends. 1 have been taunted with the political character of the gentlemen who compose the Government ; sneers hit VO becu levelled at them. Sir, T believe Clio Colonial Treasurer will be found fully adequate to the task ho has before him. His knowledge of accounts is great, his integrity is great, his industry is unbounded ; and of such man in a short time the greatest qnd K-.st otasesw.eft I have been formed. I mar refer to- Earl Spencer, formerly '■ -Cord Ahdmgpe, as an

example of that. But what did the hon. member for Egmont know of accounts a short time ago ? He had no education in finance as my hon. friend has had. I believe if the House had patiently given opportunities to the hon. gentlemen who are with me to develop their industry and their ability, which each undoubtedly possesses, I believe it would have been found that they would have performed their duties, not only to the satisfaction of the House, but to the satisfaction of the country. To give the House an idea of the difficulties we have to meet. I have prepared a short statement of the liabilities which must instantly be dealt with, and I shall read this to the House, when they may see what is the difficulty under which New Zealand is struggling; the large sums must immediately be raised in some way or another. There was, according to the statement of the late Colonial Treasurer, a necessity for a loan of £2,000,000, for the completion of public works and the redemption of the guaranteed debentures ; then for additional provincial liabilities unprovided for at the present time, it is ascertained that £200,000 will be required, but that sum will be swelled to a still greater amount. There are Treasury bills outstanding to the amount of £832,000; there is deficiency of revenue estimated by the late Colonial Treasurer of £167,000 to be met; then it is absolutely necessary to obtain this session the means of raising a further sum of £1,000,000, to repay loans by the Bank of New Zealand and Bank of New South Wales. It is also necessary to obtain a sum of £IOO,OOO by the Ist January next, to meet a loan incurred upon account of the Lyttelton Harbor. There is also £200,000 required to meet further public works and supplementary estimates of the late Government. We shall also have to provide another £200,000 to meet discount on the two million loan, if issued, at 4£ per cent., assuming the bonds bring £9O net; which gives us a total of £4,699,000 which has to be raised at once ; but, in addition, there has been borrowed from the Public Works Loan Account £300,000. I am satisfied that that sum will also have to he provided for in some way or other than out of the Consolidated Fund. It is strictly a floating debt. The late Government were authorised to borrow £300,000 for the Public Works Account, and that has been done, such sum having been borrowed and used last year; it was repaid into the public account on the 30th June, so the account was squared and the amount disappears, but early in July and August the sum was re-borrowed. The fact is it was not a payment at all; it was a nominal payment, nothing but that; it was paid in and borrowed [again iustantly. Then there is another account which must be brought under the notice of the House, and that is claims of which the House has never been informed, but claims for extra works and other contracts for railways, amounting to £171,237. It may be said that the whole of that amount may not be found to be due and payable. I have only to say this, that the very first item contested, £BOO, was found to be wholly due, every penny of it, and I believe that nearly the whole £171,000 will be required, or at any rate that there will be a heavy charge against the colony for this account. I have this further to add in reference to the statement I have made in regard to our liabilities, that in point of fact they include a debt of a most objectionable character. It includes what I may call a floating debt. In that I include £i ,000,000 borrowed from the Bank ; £832,000 Treasury bills, and £IOO,OOO required for the Lyttelton harbor; that is a floating debt of nearly £2,000,000. Now I ask the attention of the House to this most important matter. What has been done is this, the Government have gone into the open market, and in the open market have raised loans at a comparatively low rate of interest, and the Government have withheld from the persons from whom they so borrowed the fact that they were raising from private individuals, or in what we may call the “ close ” market, large sums of money at a high rate of interest. When that fact came to be known, I am afraid our credit must be seriously shaken ; in fact it is a system of finance of a moat objectionable kind. With regard specially to the Treasury hills, it will be within the recollection of the House that they authorised £400,000 to be borrowed on Treasury bills, the agreement being that these Treasury bills were to be repaid rapidly in succeeding years from sums saved out of the Consolidated Fund. That expectation nut only has not been fulfilled, but from that time they have gone on borrowing on Treasury bills. There is absolutely no end to it, and one of the first things to be done is to pay off these in some manner. This system of borrowing in the open market at low rate of interest, and from private persons at a high rate of interest, is a semibarbaric system. It is a system of a most discreditable kind, and on? which ought not to be allowed. The House will see by the statement which I have put before it that there aye most serious pecuniary difficulties which must b,o met. To ascertain the facts which I have put before the House was no easy matter. It is very difficult indeed to ascertain from the accounts iu tho form they are presented to the | House the material facts connected with the finance of this colony. We have olcarly ascertained our position, and wc have devised a scheme of finance which I hoped ’early next week we could have presented tq the House. I believe that system of finance 1 would have been satisfactory tq this House} that it would have heeq accepted with pleasure by the oqqntvy at large } that the foreign cqedjtoy would have recognised in i> ow determination to meet our liabilities in tiie most proper manner, I believe that the reductions which wo would have shown could be carried out, would have satisfied the House that W’bvU OUQO it placed us in a stable position,, wp could easily reduce the existing expenditure, 1 think we could have abovfu that < a system of taxation woqld he established which would he fair, and would relieve tho people from many of the burdens under which they now labor, and would place equally on all the exact proportion of public burdens which they should fairly bear. I believe all that could have been done ; but the hon. gentleman is pleased, and his friends are pleased in their avidity for office, not lo wait ovm for a few days to mu if what wo proposed was objectionable. They rush iu at once to stoic* -what w going on, .[ aiuaitisJhd they do not wish that u more liberal system i than their own should have the approval of m the House. They do not desire that X policy I which would have put them h. the blush p should have been raised up in this country; I and they wouhl gather’ stifle the infant at the moment of its'birfli'than allow it to attain a which would prevent their return Itoioffice. I would have shrunk with shame from some of the expedients which some oi tbs fate Government have had re-

source to in reference to those sums which they proposed to take without the authority jf law from the land fund of Canterbury and Otago. I would have scorned to have been a party to such a transaction. I would have known that in those provinces every individual who bought land, and paid his money for that land, had so paid his money under the pledge that it would be expended upon certain public works which would give value to the property he had purchased, and that the fulfilment of this pledge was a solemn contract entered into with him by the people of the colony. I would have scorned to break a contract of that kind. People who would do that would not hesitate afterwards to break faith with the outer creditor. If they would plunder the people at home, what safety is there for those abroad ? The contract was as solemn a one as could be entered into; so much money was paid upon such a condition. I say fulfil the condition with every man who so paid his money. Myself and my friends who sit on these benches with me have determined to set our faces against proceedings of that kind. We would have fulfilled our resolution, and I feel satisfied that if time had been given us the solution we propose for (his difficult problem would have been a satisfactory one. If the House can select better men to occupy these seats, by all means do so ; and I say if they prove their capability for solving this difficult problem in a proper manner—if they propose to do so in a way that is fair and honest, plundering no one and securing to all their rights—then I will cheerfully and gladly assist them in such measures, whoever they may be. There are one or two other subjects I ought to allude to. During the short period of time we have been in office we have devoted our attention to the question of native policy. That was, if possible, in a more tangled state than the finances of the country. What was the condition of the native question at the time we took office ? People were murdered even in the neighborhood of towns; the murderers fled to places of refuge, and the Government dared not speak upon the matter, but meekly held their tongues. Prisoners were rescued when they were taken, and the Government was powerless. Throughout the greater portion of the country', even during the few days we have been in office, the Natives have evinced confidence in the Government which would have enabled us to put a speedy end to such a state of things with the assistance of the Native population themselves. The late Government were unable to carry roads through a great part of the country. From communications I have received, I believe that within a few months wo could have carried roads through a great portion of the country from which they are now excluded, and that we could do so with the intelligent consent and hearty concurrence of the Native population. We believe that we could have accomplished much in that direction if we had been allowed to follow out the course that we should recommend to the attention of the House. There is one thing further I wish to say, I firmly hold the belief that when you saddled enormous burdens on the people of this colony—burdens in the shape of public debts, which | are heavier than those borne by any other country in the world—you should have conferred upon them equal electoral rights. The system of rotten boroughs, or small constituencies returning members, should be done away with. The duration of this House of Representatives should be fairly adjusted, so as to bring it always under the control of public opinion. By no other means can you hold that the inhabitants of New Zealand are bound to provide the interest and principal of the enormous debt which has been entailed upon them in direct violation of the principle that taxation and representation on a fair basis must go hand in hand. I am confident that, with the assistance of this House, and with the aid which would have been given to us throughout the whole of New Zealand, within a very short period of time such a system as I speak of would have been established. What am I told by many persons is the main reason why I am to be prevented from attempting to carry views of this kind ? I am told here, especially among the members for Wellington and also amongst other hon. gentlemen, that I am held to be what is called a Separationist, and that no confidence is to be placed in me. By all means X am to bo dislodged from position and power, and, notwithstanding the violation of any pledge they may have entered into, they hold themselves j ustified in doing this on account of my being known to hold those views. To that I answer that the study of history, the study of the interests of mankind, a large experience of public affairs continued throughout many years, an intimate acquaintance with many of the greatest minds that have existed in my life-time, have convinced me that the one system which is most conducive to the benefit of a nation is Federalism, which is by no means Separation such as they pretend. Devoutly holding these views, am I to be silent upon the subject ? No, Sir j but this I do say, that 1 know that the duty of a good citizen and the duty of a wise man is to submit himself to the form of government which prevails fc*' the time in the country in which ho lives, and to hto his utmost for his country, whether lie approves, of its institutions, or not, and to make those institutions as bon clidal as possible for the country. And I say that to ostracise a man because, sacrificing his own views in this way, he works for the good of hia country under the form of government which ho finds existing—to ostracise him. because he is known to believe that a belttn form of government could bo introdwuxt -is an unmanly and an unwise course to pursue. Why, what made the greatness of England at frequent periods but Dva fact that men who could serve, then- country came forward to work under institutions which, perhaps, they even abhorred ? , What would have become of Great Britain in the time of Cromwell, if men, by no means favorable to the form, of government set up, had not* in the navy and army, and in every position in the State, struggled to render their country great, and did really at that very time raise it up to a pinnacle of greatness"it had never before attained f What would have been thought of persons why, striving to drive these from their duly because it was known tqu> they entertained views on whub, ’the existing form of government iwite nob based, proposed to shut them |out from all public employment, aud from (doing their duty to the country in which tin y I lived ! J Hon. gentlemen may try in that wuv to ostracise me. They may try to prevenme from serving New Zealand, but everj effort, they make in that direction, every pledge which they break, and which they solemnly make to me, will, only endear me more to the peopls of this country — will ensure speedily my return to

power, if I am driven from it, with the power of carrying out views and intentions which the great majority of the people will recognise as those upon which (lie greatness of their country and their own future welfare and happiness depend. Feeling that, 1 unhesitatingly accept the challenge the hon, gentleman has given me, and let this House decide as they please—l shall feel I have done my duty.

[feom the coheespondent op the press. Wellington, Oct. 26, 8 p.m. The House has just met. The galleries are crowded. There is great stir in ta lobbies as if something unexpected were coming, and I hear it is that, the Govern, ment should be allowed fair time to declare their policy. This, it is expected, will catch a few votes—Carrington and Kelly in particular are mentioned. Reynolds is no supporter of Sir G. Grey, but I believe he will take this course.

As I write Mr Reynolds is giving notice that he will move as an amendment to Major Atkinson’s motion that, the Government not having yet declared their policy, the House will not entertain a motion of no confidence. I do not think this will affect the majority which the Opposition hold, but it will make the division very much closer than was expected.

After a few notices of motion, Major Atkinson has risen, and is now speaking. It seems to be thought there may possibly be a division to-night on the amendment, so I expect to see a majority of five for the Oppotion ; but I do not think it can be finis tied so soon, as Sir G. Grey will reply to Major Atkinson.