GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Globe, Volume VIII, Issue 974, 9 August 1877, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

[cv TELEGBAPJI. I* MR T’BESsS AG EN CY .] L KGdSLATIVE CO LNCIL. Wednesday, August s. Dr Pollen, in reply to a question, said the Government did intend, during the session, to introduce a Dill for the appointment of a Commissioner of Trustees to take over estates held under grant from the Crown upon trust hr various religious denominations for charitable and educational purposes. Dr Pollen introduced a Dill which was read a first time intituled a Dill to reserve out of tin! Waste Lands of, the Crown in Canterbury certain lands as compensation to the Kaiapoi Natives, and to make provision respecting the title thereto and dealings therewith. I n Committee on the Forest Trees Planting Dill, an amendment was introduced which will enable persons entitled to a bonus for planting, to exercise it in any part of the colony instead of being restricted to one. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Tuesday, August 7. The House resumed at 7.30 p.m. NATIVE LANDS COURTS BILL. The debate on tho Native Lands Courts Dill was resumed. Mr Tawiti approved of some portions of the Dill. He would support it, but wanted more power given to the native assessors. Mr Dttnny would not oppose tho_ second reading, but, if it were not modified in committee, he would endeavor to have the Bill thrown out. He agreed that it was

desirable to extinguish the Native title _ us soon as possible, but not under the Bill; which would prove, if not, amended, the most disastrous measure to the North Island that was ever framed. It simply meant handing over all the Native land in that island to capitalists. Up to a certain portion the Bill was very good and well drawn up, but beyond that point it was very bad. There was nothing to prevent large estates being acquired under the Bill, and then was (he Government going to be so foolish as to make roads and bridges in improving those large estates ? Government should not allow private persons to advance money to make their survey and thus get their grip upon the land. The proper duty of the Government was to provide the money for the Native surveys, and place the administration of the lands under the Waste Land Board, so as to allow persons of small means to purchase land. As at present shaped the Bill was the most pernicious ever brought before the House. Mr Ballance expressed his surprise that the Premier should have given his countenance to the measure, considering that ho said in 1865 that the Bill then introduced did not enable the man of limited means to acquire Native land. The hon. gentleman detailed at some length the circumstances which led up to the introduction of the present Bill. It afforded every facility for the acquisition of land, and the whole experience of the colony went to show that it was impossible for the poor man to compete with capitalists in obtaining land. They could not hire agents and resort to the trickery and chicanery which always distinguished the acquisition of land. No colonising Government which wished to secure homes for the people or had any respect for itself should introduce such a measure. Their great object should be not to get the land from the Natives as soon as possible, but to get for them the highest price possible, and he fully believed if the Natives were not allowed to sell their land under £2 per acre the work of settlement would go on more rapidly than by allowing capitalists to stop it up. The introducer of the Bill entirely mistook the mind of the House and country if he thought such a Bill would satisfy them. He hoped the Government would withdraw the Bill and bring one down altogether of a broader character. He deprecated the appointment of a judge whose tenure of office depended upon the Government. Lot him be a salaried officer placed in an independent position. The Natives were not satisfied with the Bill, and they would be less so when it came into operation. He did not think the Bill could be amended in committee. It should not be a Bill introducing no new principle, but one introducing a principle in accordance with the work of colonisation. In order to give Government nn opportunity of withdrawing the Bill, he would move an amendment to the effect that the I fill betaken hack, with a view to the introduction of a Bill framed to promote the settlement of the colony. On the amendment being put, Mr Thayers opposed the Bill. The lion, gentleman, after referring to the benefits which flowed from the policy and the endeavors of the late Sir Donald McLean, and who alone kept successive Ministers in office, said lie might use Shakspcare’s words and say, “ Ere yet the shoes were old which followed him to the grave ” all his policy was reversed and cast to the winds, and the North Island flooded with capitalists and land sharks, placing it at the mercy of a combination of moneyed men and bankers, whose efforts must lead to the pauperism of the Maoris. The question was not only a North Island one. It affected the welfare of the whole colony. If, as had been said by Sir Donald McLean, tuc Government had acquired about one-fifth of tho land in the North Island, what necessity was there for forcing any more Native lands into the market at present. But he denied that there was any such state. All they had was 1,700,000 acres, and for that they had paid £570,000, and yet the late Native Minister told them the Government had almost completed the purchase of about six million acres very cheaply. It appeared to him that proper parliamentary control had not been exercised in this matter. The whole course of legislation had had been to raise barriers against the acquisition of Native Land, and yet this measure threw a great portion of the North Island into the hands of capitalists, who would reduce it to the same condition as a largo part of the Nelson province, where forty miles of country were occupied by a few sheep farmers. The Government Bill was calculated to do all this, and besides produce a degraded and pauperised Native race, which would bo fraught with great danger to the i colony. They were told that the power should he placed somewhere, aiid it would be better i to place it in the bauds of the Court which ' was honest, hut were the Lauds Courts honest? Could any Court be honest where i the judges were at the mercy of those in ' office for the time being ? He warned the | Middle Island members against being deluded j into supporting the Bill, which in all probability, if passed, would culminate in a Native war, the weight of which must full upon the Middle Island. i Mr Naiii opposed the Bill. He said he had letters from the Natives, who were all opposed to the Bill—that they would sooner have their lauds taken by the Russians and Turks than that they should lose it by that Bill. Mr Taiakoa said the Bill ought to bo called a Bill to take away the land of I bo Maoris. Hitherto lie bad been a supporter of the Government, but ho never knew them to introduce such a measure before. The <>overmueut ought to take out flu: Bill, and in fact wipe out the Native Land Court Luo. Mr Stout said it was extraordinary neither the Government nor one of their supporters was able to say a single word in favor of their measure. What troubled him more was that one of their supporters brought forward a motion for them to withdraw the Bill. They seemed to bo in a most helpless condition. The two principles which should underlie any Native Land Bill were— First, respect to the rights of the Natives ; second, the promotion of colonisation. But the Bill was without those principles. The Natives were a weaker race than the Europeans, and to ( brow open (heir lands to public competition would result in making them a pauper and disaffected race, whom the colony would have to support. The system of allowing the land to be purchased by the people with money tended to put a stop to all colonising. The Nelson district was not the only one in the colony ruined by being bought up by monied men. The public estate of Canterbury was ruined by the same system, and by “ spotting” and “ gridironing.” Italy was ruined through large landed estates, and Prussia became the ruler of Germany when she cut up the largo landed estates. Ministers should remember that the land

question did not cease when the land was all sold. They would find that the land question would only then begin. He hoped the Government would take the Bill back. It was taking away the last shred of the Public Works and Immigration Policy. They undertook to acquire landed estate for the North Island, biit this Bill was a practical admission that they could not do so. This was another instance of the way the Government failed to keep their word in anything. They had no policy, no backbone. Mr Reid could not discover what the Canterbury or Otago land dealings had to do with a Native Lands Bill. Since becoming connected with the administration of affairs he gave more attention to this question than before, and ho found that it was impossible for the Government to continue the present system of Native land purchase. He did not care what Government was in power; they could not exercise sufficient control. Last session the decision came to was that the Government should introduce a Bill that would simplify the process of acquiring Native lands, while insuring a fair price for them. He believed the Bill before them did all that. Why, for years the constant cry of the House was to let the Natives sell direct to Europeans without any intervention. The details of the Bill might bo amended, but not its principles. He thought a provision might be introduced which would limit the quantity of land that could be purchased by any single individual. He did not see how the Bill could injuriously affect Otago. Whatever they might do, however, it was impossible the Government could continue its system of land purchase.

After the usual adjournment, Mr Bunny announced that, although in his speech he said lie would support the reading, yet the amendment of the member for Kangitilcci so fully met the case that he would support it. Mr Hislop urged the acceptance of the amendment by Government or its reference to a Select Committee, as they did with other Bills. If the amendment was carried what did Government propose to do r He would like to know, too, whether the rumor was true that the Government were divided in opinion upon the Bill and that they intended to lot all the responsibility of it rest upon the shoulders of one. He also wanted the Government. to answer the arguments urged against the Bill by his side of the House. Mr Beks went at length into the history of our relations with (he Maoris to show that the ‘great question to them was land, and out of that originated the King movement. All through the North Island the impression amongst the Natives was that the Bill was a swift and sure method of despoiling the Natives of their lands. The hon. member criticised the Bill to show the evils likely to arise from it, and instanced the enormous power placed in the hands of the Chief Judge. As an example, he did not agree with the mover when he said the Bill did not change the existing law. It did alter the law in several important particulars. The hon. gentleman, commenting upon the land transactions, said t hat it had been a practice to carry about skeleton deeds, with blanks for the names, amounts of money, and descriptions of land. The Maoris having signed them, search was made for their land, and the description Idled in, and yet these were the people who were said to be able to take care of themselves. Why, Maori children were known to have been induced to sign away large areas of land. What the House ought to do was to stand between the Natives and their plunderers. The only thing the Bill was likely to do was to give capitalists an easy way to make immense fortunes and to drive the Natives into rebellion- —not a few disaffected Natives, but a regular general rising. The Bill was nothing more than a national system of pillage, which would be followed by its own miseries. If the Government w’onld not accept the amendment they ought to be compelled. Hero was a Government afraid through very weakness to arrest Te Kooti, Titokowaru, 'and others, yet they would imimperil the peace of the whole country by this Bill. No doubt followers of the Government would have their names ticked off, and follow the Government into the lobby like a Hock of sheep, while there was not one of them able to offer a single argument for the Bill. Mr Kelly moved the adjournment of the debate. The debate was adjourned till Friday, and the House then adjourned at 11.15. Wednesday, August S. The House met at 2.J0 p.m. PETITIONS AND NOTICES. Mr F bx presented several numerouslysigned petitions in relation to the Licensing Laws. Mr Barff gave notice to ask whether the Government intended establishing a School of Mines for New Zealand. Mr Hamlin gave notice to introduce a Bill amending the Medical Practitioners Act. RAILWAY ACCOUNTS. In reply to Mr Richardson, Mr Ormond said that the weekly system of accounts had been introduced on the recommendation of the Kailway Commission, blit that instructions had been given to the railway oilicers to report on the working, and when they reported the Government would be able to decide as to the best system to adopt, IiOKKOWINO TOWERS TO COUNTIES. Mr Whitaker was understood to say, in rcplv to Mr Bastings, that provision would be made in the amended Counties Bill forgiving borrow ing powers to counties. LUNATIC ASYLUMS. Mr Gisuorne asked what the Government intended to do about giving clfect to the recommendations of Dr. Skim regarding. Lunatic Asylums f Mr Bowen said they would, as soon as possible, adopt the improvements recommended by Hr. Skac. Provision would also be made for extending the accommodation of the asylums. PROVINCIAL OFFICERS. In reply to Mr Gisborne, the Premier said the amount paid by Government as compensation to provincial officers whose services were dispensed with was L 12,719 13s lid. Mr Kolleston asked whether the Government intended to propose further compensation to provincial officers who have lost their offices, beyond that already given by law, as was promised by Sir Julius Vogel. The Premier said the feeling of the House last session was against such a proceeding, hutin eases of particular hardship fho Government would bo prepared to consider them. DUNEDIN ASYLUM. In reply to Mr Stout, Mr Bowen said, if the Inspector of Lunatic Asylums reported favorably as to the suitability of the Asyl nn Reserve in the Waikouaiti district, it was proposed to draft off at once a number ol patients from the Dunedin Asylum. PAPER MANUFACTURE. The Premier, replying to a question, said

£lsoohad been paid to Mr Edward McGlashan for the production of fifty tons of grey paper. PUBLIC WORKS STATEMENT. Replying to a question, Mr Ormond said ho hoped to be able to make the Public Works Statement on Friday, hills read. The District Railways Bill was read a first time ; also several private Bills. OTAGO RAILWAYS. Mr Macandrew moved his resolutions with regard to the railways for opening up the interior and outlying districts of Otago. Ho submitted that his proposals could not fail to commend themselves to anyone acquainted with Otago. Not a member of the House i who wished to do justice to his position as well as to that part of the colony which in the past had contributed a largo share to the revenue of the colony, and which by carrying out these works would be able to contribute still more in the future. There were two million acres not alienated from the Crown, and at the very lowest estimate these were worth two million pounds-—twice as much as would he required for the work. The hon. gentlemen then went on to show how large a population could be placed upon the land on the deferred payments system, on farms of 100 acres or so. He held it to be a mistake to think that the families could not make a good living on less than 200 acres. The hon. gentleman gave minute particulars as to the routes of the different lines’proposed, and of the nature of the country through which they ran. To carry out his proposals they would" have 330 miles of railway, without costing the colony a penny. If these lines were made, the public estate of Otago would bo worth live or six millions more than it was now without taking into account their value as a work of colonisation. He was glad to hear the Premier, the other evening, state that the proceeds of the land would be spent in the district in which it was raised, and he gave promise of an opportunity of giving practical effect to the doctrine lie laid down. He hoped the House would not leave undone what Otago herself would have done had not the power been taken out of her hands when the political raillenium was ushered in. There was no difficulty. Only dispose of a portion of the lands, placing them in the market to meet the cost of contracts as they were taken up. He knew that private individuals could be found who would undertake the work, blit ho did not approve of that method. Mr Ormond said he could not but he struck, when listening to the hon. member, with the fact that there were several other parts of the colony which might just as reasonably urge similar claims. It was all very well for the hon. member to say that these linos would only cost so much, but from their experience of the cost of railways, he must disagree with the hon. member. He doubted the wisdom of throwing so large a quantity of land into the market in so short a time. They laid now in hand a number of railways and public works, which a groat many people thought w ere quite as much as the country could bear at present, and that their proper course now was to go on quickly with what (hey had in hand. There would be half a million spent in Otago during the year, and lie thought that was pretty fair. The Government intended, in a Bill they were bringing down, to give facilities for the construction of railways to any district that was able to pay for them, and he thought that was as far as tin;}' ought to go. Mr Seymour moved an amendment to the effect that the House should also order the construction of several lines in Marlborough. He did tiiis as the mover said justice should be done to all alike. Mr Carrington suggested that the people of localities should bear the cost of surveying any branch line required, and then set apart so much land for their construction ; then go to the Government with their proposals. Mr Curtis moved an amendment which in effect was to make Mr Macandrew’s motion read “ the colony,” instead of “ Otago.” Mr Delatour said it was clear from what had fallen from the Government, the amendment of Mr Curtis M - as most necessary. It was now perfectly clear that, so far as the supremacy and riches of Oiago were eoncorned, she was to be blotted out by the House. At last the House had approached the real business of the session, namely, logrolling for railways. The request of Mr Maoandrew was not to be granted until their land fund was gone. If that was the way things ■were to be managed, he would say “perish the land fund” and he -would vote to-morrow for a common land fund. A Bill would shortly be introduced (if the Government would allow it) to enable localities to construct their own railways out of their land fund. Mr Stou t protested against the practice of spoiling motions which ought to bo decided on their merits, by making an addition to them. Why not. bring them forward us separate motions ? I f they went on that way, the session would probably last six months. Ho hoped Air Seymour would withdraw his amendment and let the resolution bo decided on its merits. It laid down a new and sound principle, that the laud should be made to pay the cost of railways. Mr Gisborne pointed out that the real question at issue was the localisation of the land’ fund. The Government, of course, always advocated localisation, but they acted communism. They had laid their hands upon the land fund of Canterbury and Otago. It was no ii.se passing such a resolution unless they were guaranteed their land fund. How was i.ln> House to decide that railways were desirable, merely because an lion, member said so, without being afforded any information, he could not therefore vote for the resolution. The West Coast had been treated with more injustice in the matter of railways than any other part of the colony. If there was one railway more than another that required to bo constructed it. was a line between Greymouth and Hokitika. Mr Hodgkinson thought that all railways in course of construction should be completed before going on with others. Mr Reynolds hoped both amendments would be withdrawn, though he did think the resolution would he carried. .Mr Reid said the resolution had been called an Otago public works policy. It. was so, and it was a pity that the policy was not. brought, forward in 1870, when it, no doubt, would have done a great, dead of good. The thing was quite impossible now, notwithstanding the assertion pf the mover to the contrary. It. would bo necessary to borrow very largely if the proposed lines were to bo constructed. [i Besides, if any scheme of the kind, was to be carried out, it mnyt b,c cf a general character l . The House was of too jealous a character to i allow a resolution deal- • tug with only a particular portion of the

colony to be passed. If they wished to inspire confidence in those who lent them money they should proceed steadily and carefully, as they were doing, and would, he hoped, continue to do. He did not see how it was possible to dispose of the lands for the construction of the lines, and, at fhe same time, secure an advisable class of settlers. It would be far better to dispose of the land by deferred payments to suitable settlers than to greedily obtain casli from others. He thought the resolution premature, and would oppose it. Mr M.anoehs supported the resolution. Mr Montgomery wanted the resolution to be decided on its merits. The Government ought at once and decidedly have said the resolution was outside their policy, and could be entertained. Mr Fisher wished the resolution withdrawn. It was a new public works policy, and should apply to the whole colony. The debate was interrupted by the hour of adjournment. PARLIAMENTARY INCIDENTS. [from the correspondent of THE PRESS.] Wellington, August S. The debate on the Native Lands Bill lasted all last evening, and promises to continue for several days. After its resumption on Friday the House listened very attentively to Mr Ballance, whose defection from the Government upon the quest ion, as well as that of Mr Bunny, has been much talked of. It is said by Ministerial supporters that the Bill will not pass the second reading, and, unless Government make its passing a question of their retention of office, it is not unlikely to be thrown out. The Opposition now count 42 noes against the Bill. To-day has been spent in clearing off numerous notices of motion. I hear that opinion is strengthening against the passing of the Native Land Bill, and that the adjournment till Friday will not strengthen Ministers’ position, as a rumor is being circulated in town to-day of a large “ring” having been formed, with large funds at their immediate disposal, prepared to go in at once on the passing of the Bill, and to buy every available acre in this Island. Ministers seem to hint that they will not consider rejection of the Bill as a no confidence vote. Major Atkinson is giving a ball to-night, which will leave a small House for business. Sir Astley Cooper, the renowned British surgeon, once said that no man should be aware from his sensations that he lias a stomach. Alas! how many thousands are painfully and continually reminded of the existence of that organ. Dyspepsia renders the lives of these unfortunates perfectly miserable. Every manifestation of the disease vanishes, however, when Udolpho Wolfe’s Schiedam Aromatic Schnapps is used to strengthen the stomach and associate organs.—[Advt.]