GENERAL ASSEMBLY

Globe, Volume VII, Issue 702, 19 September 1876, Page 2

GENERAL ASSEMBLY

(Per Press Agency .) HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Monday, September 18. disqualication debate. At ten o’clock this morning Mr Delatour resumed his speech, and continued till shortly after noon, when the question was put that the House do now adjourn. A large number of Opposition members entered the Chamber, and it looked as if a surprise was intended, and Sir R. Douglas got up aud made a few remarks, and then sat down, when Mr Hislop commenced to speak, and after going on for twenty minutes the question was again put and a division called for, and lost by 34 to 23. Mr Ballance's amendment was then put, when Mr Stout asked whether the debate would be reported or not. Mr O’Rorke, who occupied the chair, explained that this was the same debate, and that it was physically an impossibility to report a debate so continuously kept up.

Mr Stout said he intended to move when the estimates came on that the Hansard, staff be done away with. Mr Macandrbw said if they were not going to be reported, they had better go to a division at once.

In reply to a question by Mr Burns, as to who gave instructions that the debate should not be reported, it was explained by Mr O’Eobke that the Speaker gave his written consent that the debate should not be reported, and the subject dropped. Mr Ballance’s amendment was again put, when Sir G. Grey rose to a point of order, saying the word “The” was omitted in the amendment, and objected to it as incorrect. It was then pointed out that the Speaker ordered the amendment to be amended by the insertion of “ The,” but it was explained that the Speaker ordered the alteration te> be made in the words of the report by the: disqualification committee.

Mr Ballancb said he copied the report,, and wanted his amendment exactly the- same. It was declared too late to make the alteration, and a division was taken, the result being that the amendment was carried by 38 against 24.

Sir G. Grey said as this was the greatest constitutional debate which ever took place in the House, he hoped it would be reported; Mr O’Rokke said it was the same debate^ and he would not interfere.

Mr MURRAY announced that he intended to move a proviso, and went on to say he hoped those with whom he generally acted would not take the same attitude as they hed done. He then moved the proviso— That the House expresses its regret that Ministers should have broken the law, and expressing the opinion that even now it would be better to prorogue and go before their constituencies. On the question being put there were cries for an adjournment. Mr O’Rorkb said that was the usual hour for the Speaker to take the chair, and he would be glad if the House would consent to an adjournment. The Premier announced that, although Government would not object then, they intended to ask the Speaker to refuse any more adjournments if the debate was going to be conducted in that way. The House adjourned at one till two. Upon the House resuming at two o’clock, Sir George Grey, before speaking to Mr Murray’s amendment, asked if be would bo in order in speaking to the whole question. The Speaker ruled that he would not. Mr Macandrew raised the question of privilege as to the debates not being reported . The Speaker said it was not by his authority or sanction that the reporting had ceased, Upon inquiring into the cause he had been informed that it was physically impossible to report the debates kept up so continuously, Mr Macandrew said he only spoke as to the present debate and future ones. Hon Mr Reynolds explained that as it was well understood hon members were talking against time, it was thought useless to attempt to report talking against time. Sir G. Grey went on to state that owing to the influence of the Government over the local press, it was impossible for him and those who acted with him to be reported. The Premier gave this an unqualified contradiction, and said he would have asked for the words to be taken down, only that the hon gentleman was accustomed to making those statements. Sir G. Grey asked that they might be taken down. The words were taken from the Mansard reporter. Upon words being read, a good deal of discussion ensued, some members asserting that it was the Government who asked for the words to be taken. Mr Hunter defended the local press. Mr Rolleston said that they had something better to do than discussing the merits of the local press. Mr Stout said that the morning paper had unfairly treated the Opposition during the session by constantly misrepresenting and misreporting the various members of Opposition. The hon member then wont on to say that Ministers had influence over the press of the colony, by going np and down the lobbies with, and taking into their rooms, lepresentatives of the different papers, and he referred to a statement in the Otago Dally Times of the 12th, from its Wellington correspondent, regarding Ministers, saying that Sir G. Grey was afraid to serve the writs, and he intended to have that statement inquired into. Mr Evans Brown hoped the member for Thames would have the words taken, and he would assist him in getting a full enquiry to substantiate his charges. Mr DeLatour then rose to explain that the report of his remarks on Saturday night was false and unjust to himself. Mr Macfarlane saidj he saw nothing to object to in the report. He thought it very fairly taken down. Mr R, Wood defended Hansard, on the ground it was impossible to report debates under such circumstances as they had seen lately. It was ultimately decided that the words be not taken. Sir G. Grey went on to remark that he had heard of the Abolition of the Corn Laws and the Abolition of Slavery, but the word was debased in this instance, inasmuch as it was the abolition of freedom ; of their charters of liberties, without affording the people any opportunity of expressing their satisfaction or dissatisfaction. The hon gentleman went into the details of the circumstances which brought about the present state of things. Referring to Mr Ballance’s amendment, he said with all deference to the Speaker’s ruling, that it ought not to have been brought forward without notice and explanation, as it in fact amounted to a Bill. He felt that he had been entrapped, and his party entrapped, and the question was one of such importance that they could not make up their minds at the moment, and consequently some of those gentlemen who acted with him were forced into a line of conduct that resulted in loss of time to the country. Certain proposals had been made to them by the Government were such as ought never to have been made, or to have been accepted, and thus placed the Opposition in a false position through nofaultof their own. He went on to refer to the present position of Ministers as absolutely without precedent, and went on to remark as to the majority of that House, but not the representatives of a majority of the people, forcing their measures upon the people of the colony. Mr Murray’s amendment was put and a division taken with the result that the amendment was lost by 42 against 23. The resolution was then put in the amended form as follows :—“ That it is ex pedient that a Bill of Indemnity should be forthwith introduced and dealt with as matter of urgency to indmenify several members of the Executive Council appointed by his Excellency the Governor on the first of September instant, from the consequences (if any) that may have arisen under Dis qualification Act, 1870, and Civil List Act, 1863, Amendment Act, 1873, in respect of such appointments \ and further it having been referred to the disqualification committee No 2 to consider whether any of the provisions of the Disqualification Act, 1870, had been infringed by the Ministry, and the Committee having reported that they were of opinion that the provisions of the Disqualification Act, 1870, had been infringed by members of the Ministry, this House resolves that under the .special circumstances of the case the seats in this House of the members referred to should not be vacated, and are not vacant.” Another division was taken, which resulted in the resolution being carried by 44 against 24. indemnity bill. The Premier then introduced the Indemnity Bill, but Mr Stout divided the House ■before allowing the first reading, the result being— Ayes, 44 ; noes, 21,

Mr SIOUT said if the Bill could be read a first time, it could be read a second and third time, and if that were done he would say the Opposition ought to leave the House. Mr Macandrew said if the Bill were to be forced through in that way, he must say it was most discreditable. The Bill was read a first time, and the Premier announced that the Government would move the second reading at 7.30 that evening. The Speaker was abo it to leave the chair until 7.30, when Mr Stout moved the adjournment and Mr J C. Brown divided the House. The motion was lost by 43 against 11. Mr Stout again protested against the Speaker leaving the chair, and raised it as a point of privilege. After some discussion, the Speaker explained that it was the wish of the House generally that he should leave the chair, in order to continue the business at 7.30, and accordingly he did so, just as Mr J. C. Brown commenced to raise objec tions, The only business before the House tonight is the passing of the Indemnity Bill through its remaining stages. The House resumed at 7.30. Mr Whitaker moved the second reading of the Indemnity Bill, briefly. Then Mr Stout initiated a series of explanatory remarks that followed from one hon member after another, as to the circumstances which led to the present complication, and after strongly condemning the Bill, and the action of Ministers in regard to it, he hoped the Opposition would all leave the House before the division, and allow Ministers to have it all their own way. Mr Macandrew agreed with Mr Stout, and called it the most high-handed exercise of power ever witnessed in any Assembly. Sir G. Grey and Mr Rees also denounced the proceeding altogether ; the former saying it was using the majority to rob the constituents of their right to say whether they should ever elect the Ministers again. As soon as Sir G. Grey finished the Opposition members, including Sir G. Grey, Messrs Macandrew, Stout, and R. Wood left the Chamber, and a sort of personal debate took place, Mr Moorhouse having taken occasion to comment with some severity upon the tactics of the Opposition. Mr Sheehan replied in sharp terms to Mr Moorhouse, and Hon J. Whitaker replied to Mr Stout’s remarks as well as to those of others. Then explanations and counter explanations followed as to who was responsible for the recent talking against time, the Opposition blaming the Ministry, and the Ministry blaming the Opposition. Mr W. Wood moved that the Bill be read that day six months. This led to more debating, sharp speeches being made by Hon F. Whitaker, Wakefield, and Hislop. When a division was taken on the second reading, only two Opposition members —Fisher and Wood, who acted as tellers—were present. The division was 37 against 2. After the Bill went through committee, Mr Sharp gave notice that he would move for an address to his Excellency to put money on the estimates to indemnify those who took action against Ministers. Some objection being raised against this, the Bill was read a third time and passed, the House adjourning at 11.30 till the usual hour next day. Mr J. C. Brown wanted the Bill to have the title of the Whitewash Bill, but the Speaker said it was not a proper amendment. (From a correspondent of the Press.') Division list on the Government amendment, with Mr Ballance’s addition, indemnifying Ministers and declaring their seats not vacated. Ayes -44 Major Atkinson Sir D, McLean Mr Ballance Mr G. McLean Barff Montgomery Bowen Morris J. E. Brown Murray-Aynsley Bryce Ormond Bunny Pyke Carrington Reynolds Cox Richardson Curtis Richmond Sir R. Douglas Rolleston Mr Harper Rowe Henry Russell Hunter Seymour Hursthouse Sharp Johnston Stafford Kelly Stevens Kennedy Wason Kenny Whitaker Larnach Williams Macfarlane Woolcock Manders Noes— 24. Mr J. C. Brown Mr Rees Burns Seaton Delatour Sheehan Dignan Shrimski Fisher Stout Sir G. Grey Swanson Mr Joyce Takamoana Lumsden Thomson Macandrew Tole Murray Tonks Nahe R. Wood O’Rorko G. Wood POLITICAL NEWS.

Ways that are dark and tricks that are vain were tried to-day by the obstructionist sec tiou of the Opposition, but the Ministerial whips were wary, and suostantial divisions were obtained sooner than was expected, with the result of increasing the majority in favor of the Government on every division taken. On the House meeting at ten o’clock, Mr DeLatour resumed his mournful talk, and maintained it till noon. Meantime the Opposition members had been sitting in caucus, and at its conclusion Mr Reader Wood let it be known that they had resolved on “ No surrender/’ While he was announcing this outside Mr DeLatour inside was communicated with and he suddenly ceased speaking. The Opposition members were ready to enter to rush a division, but Sir Robert Douglas was on the alert and killed a few seconds till Mr Pyke and Mr Kelly had mustered the members, some of whom had wandered away to the Museum. Sir R. Douglas suddenly dropped, and when the Opposition members were gathered together, Mr Hi slop rose to patter, assisted by Mr Brown and Mr Stout, who brought with him books from the library. He also suddenly ceased, supposing his party were in strength, baton a division the debated motion for adjournment was negatived by 34 to 23, Some trifling was then tried about Hansard reports, and the omission of a word from Mr Ballance's amendment, but the amendment was shortly put, and as already reported carried by 38 to 24, Then came a succession of divisions,

each fresh one more in favor of the Government. First Mr Murray’s feeble addition was negatived by 42 to 24; then the entire amendment was put, indemnifying the members of the Executive from any consequences under the Disqualification Act and the Civil List Act, and declaring that the seats of Ministers were not vacated. On this the division was 44 for and 24 against. When the Hon Major Atkinson introduced the Bill, Mr Stout called for a division. Some members of Opposition left, and the numbers were 44 to 21. Mr Stout persisted in calling for divisions, the last being on his motion “ That the House adjourn.” It was negatived by a large majority, but the Speaker said it was the general feeling of the House that he should leave the chair, and he abruptly interrupted Mr J. 0. Brown by doing so, amidst much Ministerial applause. Hot and high words passed about Hansard and the local press not reporting the drivel of the past few days, and Sir G, Grey repeated his ancient assertion that the Government had acquired a control over the press to prevent his and his friends’ speeches from being reported. Mistaking what the Premier said, he proposed that his own words should be taken down, and there followed a ridiculous proceeding of sending to the Hansard reporters for the words, and much strong comment, by Mr Stout on the New Zealand. Times reports, and the Otago Times correspondence, but the matter was ultimately settled by the motion for taking down the words being negatived. On this matter of the late debate the obstructionists were proved to have been thoroughly in the minority, and they have lost several of the more staid and sensible members of the Opposition. There is no subduing Mr Stout’s petulance; on the presumption that the second reading of the Indemnity Bill was to be taken at once this afternoon he recommended that the Opposition should leave the House, and Mr Macandrew exclaiming it was disgraceful to force the second reading, was making his way to the door, but a remark from the Premier brought him back. At the caucus to-day Mr Macandrew and Sir G. Gray’s permissive provincial propositions were considered, and the next fiirht will be on these. On going into committee of supply Mr Macandrew will have more support than was expected, Mr Manders and a few other of the Government supporters going with them.