GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Globe, Volume VI, Issue 673, 16 August 1876, Page 2

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

(Per Press Agency,') HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Tuesday, August 15. The House met at 2.30. AGENT GENERAL. Mr Bees gave notice to move, before going into committee of supply, that no appointment of Agent-General be made, with the view of giving the House an opportunity of considering the matter. WANT OF CONFIDENCE. Sir G. Obey gave notice that he would move, when the County Councils Bill came on for the second reading, that it be read a second time that day six months; also, that he would in the same way move that the Financial Arrangements Bill be read a second time that day six months. questions. Mr Stout asked—(l) Whether the Government consider that the SurveyorGeneral of the colony should hold the appointment of Chief Commissioner of Waste Lands for Otago. (2) If not, if they will call upon him to resign his appointment as Chief Commiosioner of Waste Lands 7 Hon Major Atkinson did not consider it desirable that the Surveyor-General should hold the appointment referred to, and they were prepared to accept his resignation. They looked upon the appointment as one of considerable importance. Mr Seaton asked tfce Minister for Public Works whether the Government had an estimate prepared of the probable cost of harbor works at Timaru 7 Hon E. Richardson said sufficient details had not been laid before the Government to enable a reliable estimate of the probable cost of the work to be arrived at. Mr Murray asked what was the amount of contract for the Brunner suspension bridge recently fallen, how much was paid to the contractors, and when the (Government will lay before the House a report showing the cause of the bridge breaking down under its own weight 7 Hon E. Richardson replied £4985 has been paid to the contractors, and the cost of repairing the damage \vas £l6op. The enquiry was suspended pending the arrival of the district engineer. DIELS INTRODUCED. The following Bills were introduced and read a first time : —Riverton Harbor Board Endorsement Bill, Otago Reserves Management Bill. ADJOURNED DEBATE ON SEPARATION. Mr Nahe was surprised that so many South Island members should oppose the resolutions that were in the direction the South Island wanted so often. He believed these disputes between Europeans as to the form of Government did a great deal of harm to the Maories. If the Government were afraid of the harm to be worked by the name of provinces how much more should they have cause to dread the evil of thirty-nine 7 Now that only two were proposed he wanted to know why these resolutions were opposed. He attributed to Sir D. McLean the credit that there was no fighting now in Waikato, and he intended at a future date to ask for an inquiry into the cause of the war in the Waikato, so as to ascertain whether the lands of the Maories were entitled to be confiscated. He thought the separation of the two islands would have a good effect upon both by stimulating a spirit of rivalry. The member for the northern district praised the Government for their good administration, but he gathered from that that the administration was different in different districts, because he had petitions for the redress of grievances. He thought one reason why the islands should be separated was to prevent the South Island membors voting on native affairs. Mr Harper regretted there had been such waste of time during the session. He did not look upon the question aa a party one,

■ 1 I and was prepared to discuss it upon its merits. It appeared to him this was the most inopportune time to bring down such resolutions, because the inevitable confusion that must result from these resolutions being carried must have a most injurious effect upon the credit of the colony. He looked upon a great many of the arguments introduced in this debate merely as a defence of provincialism, and as being quite out of place. They would have done very well last session, but now provincialism was a thing of the past. Members objected to centralism ; but the remedy they proposed was worse than the disease. They proposed two neutralisms instead of one. The analogies and comparisons introduced during the debate on supporting the resolutions, he thought, had no analogy to the case of New Zealand, which was a peculiar one, and requires to be legislated for accordingly. If the North Island was unable to bear its burdens at present, as it appeared to be, what good was it going to do by itself? How was it going to bear its burden without the assistance of the rest of the colony ? He could not but think that the separation proposed must inevitably lead to two separate colonies, who would carry on their own affairs entirely independent of each other, and so reduce the influence and character of the colony.

Mr Sharp said that with reference to the financial aspect of the question, he failed utterly to see what bearing finance had upon the [question under discussion at all. The hon gentleman then proceeded to comment upon the action of Sir George Grey when constitutional powers were granted to the colony. Great mischief had resulted to the colony from the fact of Sir George Grey going away before he saw the new constitution in proper working order. He ought to have called the General Assembly into session first, and so prevented the Provincial Councils obtaining the dominant power they assumed, and which they never were intended to have, and which ought to have centred in the General Assembly. Touching the compact of 1856, he held that the Immigration and Public Works Act put an end to that compact. The land fund should then have been made responsible for the construction of railways. It was customary to jeer at the poor provinces, and particularly at Nelson, which was stigmatised as a sleepy hollow, and behind the age. What was the reason ? Why, it appeared that to those who had much should be given. The provice of Nelson had contributed £551,000 to the consolidated revenue since the public works policy was commenced, and they only received back £86,953, This was always the way; they were continually being sacrificed to the larger provinces, and as long as these powerful provinces existed he felt they never would get a particle of justice. Though opposed to ; the resolutions he was not in love with the Government measures. He did not approve of these arbitrary counties. The Government ought to simply place the people in the position or not, as they desired, and it would be found that the people would form themselves into counties naturally, as would best suit the requirements of the country. The machinery should be elastic. He did not think it possible to have financial separation without separation, pure and simple. • One point that had never been explained to them was, in what way was the North Island going to struggle against any difficulties that might beset her without the assistance of the South, They had been told that the House was not a representative body. He believed that those from the extreme North and South did not fairly represent the people; they only represented He grieved at the fate of Nelson as a portion of one province, especially when such sentiments as those of Mr Macandrew were given utterance to, who said he considered the interests of Otago superior to those of the colony. It was the duty of the House to legislate now so as to build up a united colony, worthy of the nation from whom they sprung, and if the present Government would not do it, then get another one that would.

Mr Williams opposed the resolutions, as an out district member. He had more faith in the General Government than in provincial institutions. It had been thrown out that the colony was on the eve of a national Maori war, but he felt no such dread. One reason why there should be no separation, was the liability of a war. It appeared to him that if any changes were to be made in the composition of the Government, he, for one, would prefer to see the Native Minister come from the South Island, as he would be more likely to be free from local prejudices. Touching the action of Sir G. Grey in regard to native matters, if he were made Native Minister to-morrow no man would more bitterly resent having his actions interfered with in any way in native matters. He opposed the resolutions. Mr Rowe could not understand the conduct of the Opposition in not speaking. They surely must have exhausted all their arguments, or must have some irresistible ones in reserve. He could not but look upon the resolutions as calculated to injure the credit of the colony, and materially retard its growth and development. The hon member for the Thames pointed to the Greek States in support of his resolutions, but from his recollection he believed the curse of Greece was that she had nob a strong central Government, even federal if they liked. Had she had that, the glory of Athens need never have passed away. They heard a good deal about the arrangement come to between Auckland and Otagp° but jie never heard a word to show how this agreement was going to be gpgrapteed ps a permanent arrangement. There had been wild talk about seizing the customs, and such an event was not so unlikely, Well, would it not be advisable that the Central Government should have power to suppress any such a step as that. But could that be done under such a sham and delusion as that proposed under the resolutions. Had there been a (government at New Tbrk, and another at New Orleans, the war between the Northern and Southern States would not have ended yet. A good deal had been made of the impending financial difficulties of the colony, but that was not a matter for glorification, and an attempt was made to lay the whole blame and mismanagement on the Government, but it appeared to him that the House was just ai responsible for what was de plored. He was one who had never favored the public works policy. When it was introduced he thought it a great mistake, and he thought so still. He was opposed to borrowing in any shape. Had the colony struggled along on her own resources her progress might have been slower, but it would have been surer, and would have rested upon an infinitely safer foundation.

Whatever might have been the intention at first as 10 the spending of borrowed money, he made bold to say that a great portion of the money spent would not pay interest for years to come, and would remain a monument of the extravagance of the Government. In coming to the question of separation, his idea of that was that separation had really taken place in 1856, and the colony had suffered from that ever since. It was the duty of a Government to administer substantial justice to every part of a country alike. But, however fair the arrangement might have been when entered _ into, it subsequently required reconsideration, and he ventured to say there never would be satisfaction until justice was done, and there was only one way to do that. Make one purse for the colony aod the landed estate common property. The people of the North Island contributed towards the purchase of the South Island, and they had a perfect right to enjoy the benefits derived therefrom. The hon gentleman dilated at considerable length on the disparity of circumstances in regard to the landed estate between the North and South Islands. Whatever the members for Otago might say or do, the day must surely come when that state of things must be altered. He took it as a good omen'to hear the mem ber for Timaru say he would next year support Mr Whitaker’s proposals. He regretted constantly hearing about Otago men, Canterbury men, and so m. He hoped to live to 'hear such phrases fall into disuse, and members only call themselves New Zealanders. As to the financial position of the colony he believed there was nothing for it but to retrench. He had not a word to say about the civil service, or about corruption, or any of those charges so freely made, but having gone carefully over the estimates, he believed an immense sum of money could be saved without impairing the efficiency of the service in any way. The native department alone was an ample field for retrenchment. Hitherto the fault of the enormous expenditure of the colony was caused by the pressure of the Provincial Governments. The House rose at 5 30.

The House resumed at 7.30, Mr Rowe continuing his speech against the resolutions. While he regarded the Counties Bill as a great boon in many parts of the colony, there were others which it would not be adapted for. Mr Kennedy opposed the resolutions as calculated to injure the credit of the colony and retard its progress. He then defended his district against the charges that she received a larger share of the public expenditure than she was entitled to. He held that making two provinces would create an exaggerated form of that provincialism which they had taken such trouble to relieve the colony of. Sir E. Douglas opposed the resolutions, and went at length into details to show that the charges made against him to the effect that his support of the Government proposals was due to the fact that Government were about to spend £IO,OOO in his district were utterly uncalled for, and without any foundation in facts. He supported the Government proposals mainly because he recognised in them an attempt to give the country districts an opportunity to manage their own affairs.

Mr 'Hamlin supported the resolutions. He did not believe any of the promises made by the Government to the out-districts would ever be kept. He wondered how anybody could place confidence at all in j:he Premier who had always trimmed his sails to catch the passing breeze, and who had advocated separation with all his ability in 1866. The hongentleman argued that it wag ridiculous to attempt to make the same laws to govern the both islands. It was like putting the necks of the people in a yoke whether they would or not. Mr Cox spoke at some length against the resolutions, which he compared to dry bones that could not be galvanised into life. He received several telegrams from his constituents approving of- his course, while others asked him to support Sir G, Grey. At the time he was elected he fully informed all his constituents he was opposed to. Sir G, Grey on abolition and separation, and having elected him knowing that, he was not now going to vote against his convictions, because a few of them asked him. He believed his constituency had been tampered with, Mr Babpf deprecated the immense waste of time there had been, and what was still likely to be, as was indicated by Sir G. Grey’s notice of motions. He was in favor of the Government proposals as far as the principle was concerned; but was not prepared to swallow all the details of the Counties Bill.

Mr Carrington also opposed. Mr Fyke made a long and a vigorous speech against the resolutions, and defended himself against the charges of inconsistency made against him. He had been eajolled and bullied by turns to see if he could not be got to, vp.tfhsTith the separationists, and before Sufiedin, waiF told in the street that ,-if he did not vote with Mr Macandrew he would be mobbed, upon his return. All he had ever striven for was a local machinery, so that tte people might manage their own affairs without asking the House to administer it. It was thei’duty of the House toodegislate and of Local Go» vernments to administer, and as he heldthat the proposals of the Government did this, he must give his adhersion to them. In referring to some of the charges made against the Premier, he said the day would come when it would be seen how much New Zealand owed to him.

Mr Wakefield moved the adjournment of the debate, having waived his right of speaking in the afternoon, and the House adjourned til 12 40. POLITICAL NEWS. (From a correspondent of the Press.') The third parallel of attack on the Government was indicated this afternoon by Sir George Grey giving notice of moving, on the second reading of the Counties and Financial Bills, that they be read that day six months. So far as concerns the Counties Bill, this is accepted as a strategy to prevent the suspected withdrawal of the Bill; but the rumorslof withdrawal were mostly circulated, if not invented, by the Opposition. Hitherto the Government have evinced a desire to refer the Bill to a Select Odmmittee. Another suggestion is that the motions are a double barrelled substitute for an intended no confidence motion. That the latter, or a similar motion was arranged is certain from fact that the Otago members who have gone South paired in favor of separation and against a no confidence motion, an incident accepted as confirming the assertion that the Otago members mean to withdraw oppo*

sition after the fate of separation. A doubt as to Mr Wakefield’s course gave interest to the re-commencement of the debate this afternoon, but it was disappointed by his waiving his right to Mr Nahe, who had previously arranged to speak. Mr Nahe supported the resolutions, but approved of Sir D. McLean’s native administration. He made some happy epigrams, and one less bappy when, in advocating separation, said two sheep’s heads were better than one. After his speech there was a strange absence and reticence of Opposition members, and the debate was carried on by four successively against sepation Messrs Harper, Sharp, Williams, and Rowe who had not concluded when the House rose at half-past five. Mr Harper spoke fluently but rather rapidly for reporters. He adhered closely to the question of separation, declining to treat the question as one of no confidence, and opposed it on grounds of confusion and the injury to the credit of the colony ; and the fact of some Middle Island districts being more separated from each other by natural boundaries than from Wellington, Mr Sheehan has not yet spoken, and as he has been actively note taking, be will probably follow Mr Rowe. The Hon Major Atkinson has been suffering from a severe cold, and is likely not to be able to reply, as it was expected that Government would try to force a division to-night, but he is again in his place, and probably awaits the last big guns of the Opposition. The Opposition, not the Government, for some occult reason, are trying to force a division to night. It is authoritatively stated that the Go vernment has no intention of abandoning the Counties Bill, and means to proceed through with it, and submit to amendments of detail.

The Christchurch District Drainage Act Amendment Bill, introduced by Mr Belleston, consists of twelve clauses. It amends the fifteenth section of the Act by substituting one shilling and threepence for one shilling, It limits the Board’s borrowing powers to £250,000; repeals the fourth schedule, and section 78 and 79 of the old Act; provides that the debentures be payable to bearer, and transferable by delivery, all debenture holders to have |equal rights ; provides for a sinking fund and interest; and enables, with a proviso, the Board to borrow, pending the raising of a loan. It establishes penalties not exceeding £5 per diem for waste of water from artesian wells.