THE SEPARATION QUESTION.

Globe, Volume VI, Issue 671, 14 August 1876, Page 3

THE SEPARATION QUESTION.

(From the Press.') The following is Mr Stevens’s speech on the Separation question, delivered in the House of Representatives on Friday evening: Mr Stevens said he did not pretend to underrate the importance of the debate, because he had heard the question discussed for years, and a feeling in favor of some degree of separation was more or less latent, though it had not made any active appearance before the public. He was aware also that the present proposal was not of that complete character brought under the notice of the House in 1866 by the member for Waikato. He remembered that debate exceedingly well, the ability displayed in the course of it, aud the large amount of condemnation the proposal received at the hands of the House and country. This modified form of separation was not less objectionable than the proposal of 1866. In justification of himself he wished to say that, at one period in the history of the colony, he had a form of Government in his mind’s eye ; and before going frrrther he would set himself right by explaining what was the form of separate Government he had in his mind in times past. In 1872, when he was asked to stand for the Heathoote on Mr Hall’s retirement, ho expressed the opinion that it was desirable that there should be instituted a form of Government in the direction of immigration and public works, which should have an insular character. He did so, because be felt at tba time that the colony

was going in for an enormous expenditure, 'that the wants of the different localities of the two islands were imperfectly known in many important respects, and it was desirable that local influence should be brought to bear upon matters which were made the prominent subjects of legislation and administration. He therefore proposed that a large part of immigration and public works, and the work of managing the waste lands, should be placed under the control of that body. But at that time the country had not put the railways upon the schedule. The whole world was before it, and they had not the enormous expenditure completed that had taken place. Although his view might bo a mistaken one, he thought it would have been for the benefit of the country if at that time such a proposal had been adopted. He was, however, prepared to admit it was an open question ; but in view of the large undertaking proposed to be gone on with after 1870, he felt any alteration was better than continuing the provincial system. Having so far explained matters, he proceeded to deal with the question before the House. Bfirst, as to the objection—and he considered it a point which required much consideration —which had been raised, that the House was not a representative body. He was exceedingly sorry to think that when gentlemen had met here as a new Parliament, elected by the colony at large af er an enormous amount of consideration and contested elections, it should have been said they did not represent the people. It was a very sad thing to begin the first year of their existence by throwing discredit on their representative character. He remembered the men who had sat in former years, and who had filled the office of lawgivers with such credit—men like Crosbie Ward—men like him, whose disappearance from this earthly scene had struck sorrow to the heart of the colony but a few days ago—he spoke of Isaac Earl Featherston, who would no longer be seen in the councils of the State—and he remembered that their example would form a guide worthy of acceptance by politicians of any time. But still he claimed that this House of Representatives represented the public feeling, the sympathies and the desires of the people, as fully and faithfully as any House of Representatives which had ever existed from the first period of this colony’s history. In the House was as good material for a Government, as good an administration, or as good an Opposition, with as much debating power, as had ever been seen in any Parliament which had ever met since he had resided in this colony. Therefore he trusted he would never hear that argument any more. Whether they were in favor of a division of the islands or not, he declined absolutely to consider the question in connection with the Government of the day, or to discuss the financial or other proposals of the Government, which he would at the proper time deal with upon their merits; but he would endeavor to impart a little business consideration into it. The bantling of the member for the Thames had in the course of debate received a reasonable amount of clothing to protect it from the intemperance of the political weather. He was not perfectly satisfied with the information they had got. It occurred to him, supposing he had to meet his constituents to explain to them what Parliament was doing in this matter, that all he could say if he had voted for the resolutions was, “ I voted for them, but all I can tell you is that the Middle Island is to take upon itself a permanent responsibility of £625,000 a year, and tb(e North of £190,000 ; but the ultimate liability for defence was still open, and it might be assumed that in case of extreme necessity the Middle Island would have to bear more than its share, if not the whole responsibility in that direction. As regards all other matters —as external credit, the ultimate direction in which taxation should be for both islands, and a variety of things, so far as the Legislature was concerned, they were to be referred to the people.” It struck him his constituents would say, “ We elected you to procure so far as you were able the abolition of the provinces, to secure a sound condition of finance, and to procure a good system of local government.” What sort of answer would he get 7 Why, to go about his business. That he ought to hare done better. He wanted to know whether it was intended to divide the public debt or not 7 It was no use going to refer to the people whether the liability for meeting the public credit was to be joint or separate. It was not a matter to be made an election cry of, but for calm consideration by the House. When he was in England two years ago he made it his particular business to find out what this colony would have to do to keep up its credit. He learned that financial men upon whose judgment every one would rely were of one opinion—viz, that the larger the consolidated revenue you could show as being absolutely raised by taxation, and put into the consolidated fund, and the larger the land revenue and the more valuable the public estate, the better would the creditof the colony be; and the reason the condition of the land was taken into consideration was this, that it was to be presumed that where there was a good landed estate which would come in sooner or later there would in time be a taxpaying population placed upon it, and better security for the creditor. But how was a good revenue or a valuable landed estate to bo shown to the public creditor if the colony were to be divided in this manner ? This matter of dealing with the public creditor was not settled. They would never hear the last of it, and their credit in the market would sink, and would not be brought up again within the lifetime of members. There was another thing he wanted to know about. The House had been told by the bon member for Waikato that the Customs revenue was to be devoted to the Federal Government for the payment of interest. Suppose there was a surplus of Customs revenue—suppose instead cf the Customs revenue being £1,200,000, as it had been last year, it were to increase to £2,000,000 —to which it was hoped it would increase in the course of a few years—what was to become of the surplus ? Was taxation to be reduced, or was the surplus to be divided between the two provinces 7 These questions would be bound to come. It might be found that the incidence of taxation in one island would bear very differently from that of the other. What was to be done in such a case 7 These were some of the difficulties he wished to see cleared up. Now, he had voted against the resolutions of the hon member for Waikato, and he should like to say why he hid voted against them. It was not because of any local feeling. If he had a blank sheet of paper, and was asked what was desirable for a new country, he should not propose a division of the land fund—he said distinctly it should bo colonial ; and the indebtedness of the colony, colonial indebtedness. But for twenty years the Southern provinces had

enjoyed the land fund, and they could not escape the fact that while there was a large amount of sentiment, the people, while per* fectly prepared to supplement the revenue in the ordinary way by taxation, they would not be prepared to give up that which they enjoyed so many years. He expressed no opinion upon the original expediency of the arrangement, but it was now considered a special right, and it was not wise to assume that they could soothe the opinion upon that point. It was exceedingly inconvenient to cause irritation against the Legislature by endeavoring to make the land revenue of the South public property. The member for Waikato came down and complained that Auckland was in a derogatory position in which she should not be placed. He did not understand the hon member’s view. He did not understand provincial matters in education, and if the member for Waikato told him what was wanted for education in Auckland, he would be willing to assist him in getting it. He regarded the people of Auckland as his people just as much as the member for Waikato, and whether it was for education or for the departments of the State, he said what was necessary for the good government, order, and peace of the colony should be paid out of the revenues of the whole colony. “ Never (said the hon member) have I taken the narrow, selfish view of these matters taken by some members, who in their public capacities do not take that liberal view which alone can bring about a great colony, [Cheers.] When I voted for abolition, and when I used such influence as I possessed for the purpose of securing abolition, I accepted abolition with the responsibilities of abolition, and looked forward to the most complete Government you can give New Zealand —a Government at the expense of the colony, and not Government at the expense of localities. I know no provincial boundaries, and if the hon membsr will come down with the estimates that are necessary for the government of Auckland, I will give him my support to get the estimates through. I will assist him to get what is necessary for Auckland, but it must be upon this condition, that the expenditure shall be under the authority and control of the Parliament, and not under the control of bodies in special localities. What we have fought for for years is to make this House the instrument of taxation to be raised from the people, to be handed over to the responsible bodies for expenditure. [Cheers.] I accept that view in its entirety, and when the estimates are under consideration I hope the hon member will remember what I have said.” Mr Stevens went on to say that in future the power of governing should be vested in that House, and that Governments should not be chosen with a view to please particular localities. For years he had noticed that when there was a change of Administration the first feeling was that certain localities must be represented in the Government. He could not understand it. If the Government was composed entirely of men from the Bay of Islands, or men from Stewart’s Island, or men from the Chatham Islands, he was content, so long it was the best administration that could be got within the boundaries of the colony. He did not attempt to ignore the responsibility that attached to nationality. He was a nationalist ; and as regards provision for the public departments, they should be provided for and presided over by that House and that House alone, because it was the Parliament that should govern from one end of the colony to the other; those were the views upon which he was elected. As to these resolutions, the hon member for Dunedin (Mr [Macandrew), told them economy was required. He had examined the matter from every point of view, and he had completely failed to perceive how economy could be brought about. He had prepared the first year’s budget of the new province of New Munster, [a laugh], and a very remarkable document it was.' The first item was £625,000, the portion of the interest to fall upon the southern provinces, and he was happy to say that was the largest item. Next came £148,000, for interest of provincial loans, which brought up the total sum to be paid to the external creditor to £773,000 a year. The expenditure on account of departments he had set down at £351,000 : allowances to municipalities, £22,928; allowances to road boards, £44,331 ; pound for pound allowances, £44,331 ; hospitals and charitable aid, £50,000; charges for surveys, £52,750; and here he would mention that he supposed the Middle Island would have to pay its share of the federal expenditure, and if they took the total amount of permanent charges for which the colony was liable on account of the civil list, pensions, See., which in all amounted to £76,814, that would necessitate the Middle Island, or the province, if it only paid half, charging itself with £39,000. Then there was the federal legislative department, and also a certain amount to be paid for the expenses of the Legislature in New Munster. He presumed that gns, messengers, printing, and all the other things which were found necessary in connection with the General Assembly, would to a certain extent be also found necessary in connection with the Provincial Legislatures. Then there were numerous miscellaneous expenses, such as those for domains, public buildings; and in all he put down these charges to amount to £73,930. Postal charges might be estimated at £IOO,OOO for the colony, and it would bo but fair that at least three-fourths of this should be found by New Munster. In all, therefore, he found that one and a half millions would be required to cover the expenditure for the year, and this upon the estimates of the Provincial Governments for last year, most of h>s calculations being based upon Provincial estimates. Now for the revenue. He found that the total Customs returns for the year were £1,420,000, of this £967,335 would come to the share of New Munster. That was if the Customs revenue in the future was as high as it had been last year. Bn* it was to be remarked that his friends on the opposite side had been full of prophecies that the consolidated revenue would sink. The railway revenue for the two provinces last year had been £85,000. There might be some increase in this but scarce enough to equalise the finance; ho went on to add the miscellaneous provincial revenue, which had been estimated at £20,000 for the whole colony. In all he calculated he would have a revenue of £1,074,000. Now, what was the meaning of that? It meant that the very first thing to be done was to increase taxation or pay the whole land revenue into common stock. Her hind revenue in the common stock, and her railways in the common stock, and then how .much better would Canterbury be than if she threw her land revenue and railway revenue into the colonial common stock ? He

was going to be a provincialist for ten minutes. What would be the position of a Canterbury man under such circumstances ? He would find everything gone into the Middle Island fund, and diverted in directions which he might think would not be so local. He said, without the slightest hesitation, and in saying it he knew he was expressing the feelings of the Canterbury people, that they would infinitely sooner see their land fund, their railways, their pasturage ren + s, and everything else, brought into common stock with some object that had more of a national view. 1 Cheers ] Why should Canterbury suffer political extinction in order to galvanize into temporary life the corpse of extinct provincialism? [Cheers.] A Canterbury member’s position, under the view of the member for Waikato, would be that one of the two courses would be open to him—either to remain iu a state of comparative exhaustion, getting little of his own resources returned to him, or he might say in the words of Byron—- “ Where are those martyred saints, the five per cents, And where, oh! where the devil are the rents ?” Or he might go up to Auckland, which was what he (Mr Stevens) would do.* He would put himself under the protecting wings of his astute friend the member for Waikato, saying, “ You have managed matters so much better than we in the b’outh are able to do, you have already captivated ua by the acuteness of your management of public affairs, and the only thing for ua is to place ourselves under your guidance in future." He could imagine his astute friend the member for Waikato, exclaiming through the poetical medium of the member for Parnell—- “ Surely, surely, slumber is more sweet than toil, the shore Than labor in the dark mid ocean, wind and wave and oar ; Oh rest, ye brother Aucklanders, we will not labor more.” He then could understand the member for Parnell, iu the capacity of the leading legislator for the people, to whom peace of mind, ease, and culture are preferable to the labor that is necessary to people living in colder climates ; it would be very easy to be happy in Auckland under such circumstances. There was nothing more essential to good management than a just appreciation of the side on which one’s bread was buttered, which would be the case with the member for Waikato, whose tranquility would be enviable. But while that gentleman was eating his bread and butter the people |of Canterbury would be eating the bread of affliction, mixed up with an occasional spice of the pie of humiliation. Did members who were talking about dividing the country remember what was going on in the southern part of the island—the enormous advancement in prosperity and in developing the resources of the country that was now taking place? A glance at the trade returns showed that the progress made had been remarkable. For the year 1871 the Customs returns of the province of Wellington amounted to £75,000, now they amounted to £190,000. In Hawke’s Bay in 1871 “the Customs revenue was £24,000, while last year it was something like £41,000 ; in Taranaki the development had not been so marked, but still it was apparent in the Customs revenue, which was in 1871 £SOOO ; but last year amounted to £8540. As a colonist and a public representative he said, when we had borne the brunt and heat of the burden for the maintenance of life and property in the North, when we had made great sacrifices without a murmur, let us share in the prosperity which is arising out of the self-denial of past years ; don’t let us part with such enormous advantages as now exist. He was now taking a sentimental view. The member for Coleridge thought it was snivelling ; but he hoped that some time in his life that hon member,would be susceptible of sentiments that were not snivelling. He (Mr Stevens) was never one of those, and never would be,'to throw stones at the people of Auckland in regard to war matters. He knew they did not desire war. He knew their sacrifices; and saw for himself instances of self-denial and suffering which won his deepest sympathy. So, too, with the people of Taranaki. Therefore he would never allow to pass unchallenged one word of reproach as'regarded the inhabitants of the North in reference to ;the war, because he knew so well the sufferings they had undergone in defence of the country. The member for Waikato said that one day, if the two islands were separated, they would come together again. When was that day to be, he would ask? Did he suppose for one single instant that when the people had lived together in each island for a number of years with Governments of their own, they would be disposed for change ? Was he not statesman enough to know that the people would cluster round that Government for self protection ? The prospect of their coming together again was exceedingly remote. Why should they make this separation ? Why experiment on the body politic of this colony ? Why not leave it as it is ? [Opposition cheers ] The other side admitted that the provincial system was an impossible one. [Noes. I Why did they seek to do a thing now which they knew would have to be undone in years to come ? Did they mean to tell him the House was incapable of dealing with matters of great public importance because of sectional differences among themselves ? Was that the way they were going to administer public affairs ? Leaders of the colony, like the members for Waikato and the Thames, who had spent the best portion of their lives in watching the cradle, he might say, of the Government of this country, men capable of advising and assisting in every possible difficulty which may arise in the matter of constitutional government, were they going to ruin a magnificent opportunity for doing great services to the colony ? Were they going to throw overboard the unity of the colony for the sake of obedience to mere temporary differences, to outcries about the loss of liberty, and things of that kind ? He could not believe that they would. How was it possible that the House of the people’s representatives could be otherwise than the fountain to which every citizen should appeal for ‘justice and right. What possible loss of liberty was there in this ? He himself did not care whom we had in office ; that was a matter of no importance in his opinion ; but he did say they should all put aside small matters, and unite in giving the country a system of local government, sound finance, and complete restoration of the public credit, in preference to dealing with sections of the country. Let them come forward, not as Aucklanders or Otagoans, or Canterbury men, but as New Zealanders, and he would give them his hearty support in any legitimate direction in which they might wish to go. [Loud cheers.]