GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Globe, Volume IV, Issue 418, 14 October 1875, Page 2

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

[By Electric Telegraph.]

{From a correspondent of the Press.)

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Tuesday, October 12. EMPLOYMENT op females act,

Hon Mr Miller moved the second reading of the Employment of Females Bill. He thought it a most reasonable request on the part of persons interested in factories to ask that their machinery should not be kept idle sixteen hours out of twenty-four. The only argument he had heard against the Bill was that on the system of relays being introduced, means would be taken to evade the law by the operatives working more than eight hours on one shift, but in this colony

where factory workers were so few, that argument had no force. There had been a great deal of tall talk about the Bill, and that it had been framed in a spirit of cruelty and greed. But there had been too much said about the Bill. They might almost call it pseudo-philanthropy. He would not be found a supporter of it did he believe for one moment that it would have any of the baneful effects stated, and he firmly believed the gentleman who had introduced it in the other House held the same opinion.

Hon Mr WATERHOUSE was of opinion that they should assimilate their law as much as possible to that of England, and in so far as legislation of this class had been found necessary at home it would be found necessary to introduce it here before long. But they must recollect, in considering the question, that it was not how they should employ their females, but how they were to get females to employ. There were in the colony altogether only 147,000 females as against 194,349 males. It was not therefore desirable to legislate so as to stimulate the crea tion of factory labor. He did not believe that the employment of women and children in factories was calculated to advance the moral welfare of the people, but it was highly desirable that every provision should be made for their protection and education, and he thought that they should introduce some of the provisions of the English legislation of last session, many of the clauses of which might be adopted with advantage, such as those limiting the age at which children might be employed and providing for their education. The Bill should be referred to a Select Committee, with the object of carrying out the idea expressed above.

Hon Dr Pollen would prefer to have had power placed in the hands of the Governor to relax the provisions in particular cases. The particular advantage of this would be that if any abuse should creep in under the existing law, the Governor would have the power to take such steps at once as would prevent its continuance. Hon Mr Menzies saw nothing im the relay system at variance with the broad principle that females should not be allowed to work more than eight hours. He objected to the discretionary power suggested by the Premier.

Hon Mr Miller, in reply, expressed his entire concurrence in the views expressed by Mr Waterhouse and the Premier, and moved that the Bill be referred to a Select Committee to report on Thursday. The Bill was then read a second time, and referred to a Select Committee. DEBTORS AND CREDITORS BILL. Hon Mr Hart said of all the complaints of the jurisdiction of the Supreme Court, the changes in the bankruptcy law was the cause of the most frequent. The expense of ascertaining the interpretation of the law incurred a large cost, and he saw nothing in the present Bill to suggest that the cost would be less when it was brought into force. This was a shorter Act, but without a much clearer explanation of the effect and operation of it, he should be indisposed to assist in passing it through the Council. A former Act (which did not pass the Lower House) contained one of the desirable provisions in the present Bill, while it was in other respects more satisfactory, and might be dovetailed into the existing law and lessen the expense of bankruptcy proceedings. Hon Mr Holmes agreed that the Act alluded to by Mr Hart was a superior one, but as he took it, the question was should they adopt th s Bill or permit the law to stand as it was. He suggested that they should prove the Bill in working. Hon Mr Buckley objected to several points in the Bill. It appeared that unless the creditors appointed a trustee in the estate of a bankrupt, there was no provision whatever made for winding it up. He thought provision should be made giving the Court power to take action where the creditors failed to do so. He also objected to clause 12, by which a debtor might be constantly appealing against the action of his creditors regarding the treatment of his estate. The Bill, if passed in its present state, would be found to be very unworkable. The question was put and a division taken. The ayes were 13 and noes 6. CANTERBURY FENCING BILL. Hon Mr Buckley moved the second reading of the Canterbury Fencing Bill, which provided for the cost of erection of dividing fences, and where disputes arose to refer the division to the nearest court. The Hon Dr Pollen said it would be inconvenient to take up the functions of the Provincial Government of Canterbury in view of general legislation which would take place next year. The Hon Mr Buckley pointed out in reply that delay would result in serious inconvenience and annoyance. The Bill was read a second time. IN COMMITTEE. The Council went into committee on the Debtors and Creditors Bill, which passed through committee without amendment, and on the Speaker resuming the chair was read a third time and passed. OUTRAM TELEGRAPH STATIONS BILL. This Bill was reported without amendment, read a third time, and passed. CANTERBURY FENCING BILL. The Council went into committee on this Bill, which was thrown out on the motion of the Hon Mr Robinson to report progress. BILLS PASSED. The following Bills were also passed : Municipal Corporations Act Amendment, Oamaru Town Hall and Gasworks, Evidence Further Amendment. Wednesday, October 13. The Speaker took the chair at 2.30. QUESTIONS. The Hon Mr Menzies asked—(l) Whether the measures Government propose to introduce in next session on the subject of local government will make provision for the establishment of Road Boards, for the union of two or more road districts when ratepayers desire, to form ridings, and for the formation of two or more ridings in the same way, to form counties? And if so, whether it is proposed to authorise every such County Council to allocate the subsidies paid to it among the ridings and road districts included in such county ? (2) Whether Government will, during the recess, prepare measures applicable to the whole colony upon the subjects, such as education, fencing, impounding, slaughtering, diseases in stock, noxious weeds, ferries, and such other matters, the laws relating to which can be most conveniently administered by local governing bodies, and introduce them in the next session of the General Assembly ?

The Hon Dr Pollen referred to the Local Government Bill as affording information

upon the first part of (he question. As to the second, he replied affirmatively upon all the subjects, except education, about which Government could give no definite reply. PIAKO LAND. The Piako exchange committee reported recommending that the Government should is-ue a caveat against the issue of a Crown grant in respect to the land, and prosecute parties who made false application to the Land Transfer Olfiee.

HOUSE OP REPRESENTATIVES.

Tuesday, October 12, The House sat at 7.30. BILLS ADVANCED.

The Vincent Land Purchase Bill (introduced by the hon Major Atkinson) and the Religious, Charitable, aud Educational Trusts Act Amendment Bill (introduced by Mr Ward) were advanced a stage.

The Davides Succession Bill was read a third time and passed. The Otago Harbor Board Empowering Bill was considered in committee and reported with amendments. The Clutha River Conservators Bill passed through committee. REPRESENTATION BILL. In committee on the Representation Bill Mr O’Connor moved that progress be reported in order to allow of his giving notice that the Hansard reporters be instructed to report the discussion. The motion was negatived, Mr Murray moved that clause 2, fixing the number of members at eighty-six, be postpoued.

Mr O’Conor asked for a Ministerial statement as to how they viewed the amendments proposed by members.

The Hon C. 0. Bowen said Government would not oppose the alterations in the boundaries if found to be convenient, and agreed to by members for the neighboring districts.

Sir F, D. Bell complained of a want of principle in the Bill, and considered it would be unfair and mischievous for the House to attempt to deal with the representation in the manner proposed. Mataura had more right to another member than many of the proposed new electorates. If there was to be a reconstruction of boundaries at the instance of private members, he would move that progress be reported, and the • Bill be reconstructed.

Mr Mac an drew hoped the member for Mataura would follow it up ! s by voting against the measure in all its stages. He agreed that Mataura was more entitled to another member than the whole of Taranaki to three; but as the Government could pass anything they liked, the sooner they passed the Bill the better.

Mr Ormond contended that Hawke’s Bay was absolutely worse represented than any other provincial district in the colony,|Westland excepted, whether as regards population, extent of country, expors, or the contribution to the revenue. With regard to the population, he found that, according to the present population, Auckland had 16 members or a member for every 1770 people ; Taranaki had a member lor every 2295, Hawke’s Bay a member for every 6372, Wellington a member for every 4218, .Nelson a member for every 2325, Marlborough a member for every 204, Canterbury a, member for every 5387,. Westland a member for every 7998, and Otago a member for every 5367. Then, looking at the imports, Napier, with two members, paid duty last year to the amount of £214,182, while Nelson, with its nine members— [A Member— “ Seven members”] — well, with its seven members, paid £384,000,. and Auckland, with sixteen members, paid £674,000. Surely the objections urged' against Hawke’s Bay having another member' were urged without reason.

Mr O’Conor said unless the Government would permit the amendments in the boundaries of the districts, he should try to have it thrown out.

Mr Mervyn supported the measure as it stood.

Mr Eeid supported the Bill as it stoodwith the exception of the proposal to add amember to Napier, because he did not consider the addition justified by facts, notwithstanding what the member for Clive had> said.

Mr Sheehan looked upon the Bill as a miserable attempt at a compromise. There was no principle in the Bill, and said if a member were allowed to the Thames and one to Dunedin, and one taken from Taranaki and given to Haw ke’s Bay, and the rest off the Bill let go, he would support it. He did> not consider the province of Westland badly/ represented considering all things. Mr Wakefield supported the measure,, and

Mr Stafford considered many of amendments placed upon the supplementary order paper worthy of attention at the handeh of the Government,; but as for the proposal! to refer the matter to a Select Committee;, he had never heard of such a course being pursued before. It was done in 1870, and then against the will of himself and other members. A Select Committee could not dictate to the House on a matter like this.

Mr Tairoa intended to propose that another Mauve member be appointed. Clause 2 was postponed, and clauses 3 and 4 agreed to. On clause 5, Mr O’Neill proposed two additional members be given to the Thames. Mr Murray, recognising that there was not time to make up a thoroughly gooe Bill,, thought it would be best to give two members to the Thames and one to Dunedin, and thus let the Bill pass.

Mr White wanted another member for Westland.

Mr Thomson supported the amendment. Mr M‘Gillivray considered the Bill a good attempt to rectify a glaring inequality, and should support it in its entirety. Mr Harrison and Mr Wales favored the amendment.

Mr Montgomery thought all the committee would be able to do would not be much in the way of amendment, and it woud be best to take the Bill as it was. He should like to see a member struck off Taranaki and none allowed to Napier. Mr Hunter hoped the discussion of all the amendments would not take place, for it would after all be a fight by each member for his own district. He might bring forward a claim on behalf of Wellington, and perhaps could well support it, but he did not desire to do that. He wished to see substantial justice done, and it would be only just to add one member to the Thames and one to Dunedin, and allow the other proposals of the Government to go to the wall, Mr Sheehan supported the amendment.

Sir G. Grey hoped a compromise would be come to, by which two members would be given to the Thames and one to the City of

Dunedin, with the understanding that a perfect measure would be brought down nox' session. Hon 0. C. Bowen said the Bill only pro posed to remedy palpable inconsistencies, and next session it would be equally impossible for any Government to bring down a perfect Bill. To give three members to the Thames would, taking the population as the basis of representation, disturb the representation of the whole colony. Looking at the circumstances, he considered two members would be quite sufficient, and coming from Grahamstown, the representative of the goldmining interest, two members would represent it better than three coming from different parts of a wide area of country. Mr Bryce compared the claims of Wanganui for a member wdth those of Napier, and said in the former case the claims were much stronger. He expressed general dissatisfaction with the Bill, for he thought there were already too many members in the House. They could not go on increasing. There must be a stop—then where were Government going to stop. In Victoria there was one member for every 9000 persons ; in New South Wales a member for eveiy ten thousand ; in South Australia for every five thousand ; in New Zealand one for every four thousand ; and now it was proposed to increase that number. He favored the proposal of confining the increase to two mempers—one for the Thames, and one for Auckland.

Sir G, GREY said the Minister of Justice had made a mistake in supposing that Grahamstown constituted the Thames. Coromandel should have a member. The goldmiuing interest was not the only interest. There was the timber interest, the agricultural interest, and various other interests. If a third member were not allowed, he should endeavor to get the proposal for the increase of the members to the other districts disallowed. Mr Stafford favored the increase to the Thames in preference to the increase for Dunedin, because, in considering the reputation of cities, he could not accept merely the population basis. The population of a city was in a different position to the population of a country district, because they had opportunities of expressing opinion in public meetings, and had other modes of making their voice felt in the councils of the country, which the people of the country districts had not. Mr JACKSON considered the claims of the Waikato stronger than those of Timaru and other places. He supported the amendments, but should like to see a portion of the Waikato tacked on to the Thames, so that the former might be better represented. Sir G. Grey should talk all night and next day till he got from the Government a promise that they would grant a third member to the Thames. As to the suggestion from the member for Waikato about taking a piece of the Waikato and putting it on to the Thames, he believed that it had emanated from the Government. There had been a consultation between them. [Mr Jackson — There has been no consultation. | Well, that was extraordinary. Sir D. McLean hoped the committee would support the Government in passing the measure in the shape in which it now appeared. Mr LUCKIE said talking against time had been tried the previous evening unsuccessfully, and he felt sure, if it were again attempted to force the majority to bow to the will of a tyrannical minority, the committee would again do its duty and sit it out. Mr Reid said if the hon member for the Thames persisted, he might find himself unable to get even one additional member. In the discussion which ensned, Sir G. Grey, Hon C.C. Bowen, MessrsVonder Heyde, Bunny, White, Dignan, and May, took part. A division was taken on Mr O’Neill's amendment; for it, 21; against it, 37. Mr Sheehan proposed an amendment for giving Coromandel one member. Mr Pearce supported the proposal that the increase of representation should be confined to one member to the Thames, and one for Dunedin. He commended the selfdenial with which the Wellington members had refrained from asking for another member, though they were fairly entitled to it. On a division the amendment was lost by 30 to 28.

Mr W. Kelly proposed an amendment for creating a new electoral district on the East Coast.

Hon C. C. Bowen and Sir Donald MCLEAN supported the amendment, which was opposed by Mr Reid, Mr Harrison, and Mr Macandrew.

Sir G. Grey complained of his rights as Superintendent having been trampled upon by proposing to tack on a portion of Auckland to a district in Hawse’s Bay, without consulting him. Hon 0. 0. Bowen answered that provincial distinctions were not consulted in electoral districts, and instanced Cheviot. At 2.30 a.m. progress was reported.

Wednesday, October 13. [Per Press Agency.] The Speaker took the chair at 2.30. representation bill. Mr BALLANCE gave notice to move an amendment to clause 6 in the Representation Bill,—“That in a district returning three members no voter shall be allowed to vote for more than two.” questions. In reply to Mr Ballance, the Native Minister said that the question of bringing in a Bill next session dealing with elementary education throughout the colony, would receive their best attention during the recess, but a more definite answer could not be giveo at present. In replv to Mr Basstian, Hon E. Richardson said the Bluff and Winton Railway had been valued at £129,214, but how that was to be credited to the district was a question ■which must remain in abeyance for the present. He was also informed that the occupiers of land at Stewart’s Island would have their sections surveyed with as little delay as possible. BILLS READ A FIRST TIME. Canterbury Board of Education Bill, Immigrants’ Land Act Amendment Bill. MIDDLE ISLAND NATIVES. The adjourned debate on the question that the report of the native affairs committee, in reference to the unfulfilled promises to the natives of the Middle Island, be referred to the Government for favorable consideration, ■was resumed. Mr MACANDREW moved an amendment “That in the opinion of the House the terms and conditions set forth in the deed of cession had been fulfilled, and the House could not recognise verbal promises made vears ago, and said to have been unfulfilled, but of which there was only ex parte .evidence.’’ The natives, he said, would not

be satisfied with less than a tenth part of Ofasro, and such a claim could not possibly be recognised.

Mi W. Kelly said there was no doubt there were unfulfilled promises to the natives, and if the amendment were carried, it would be virtually interposing a bar to the natives obtaining justice. Kir Donald McLean said Mr Taiaroa’s claims could not be entertained; they were so extravagant. Government had every desire to see full justice done to the natives, and intended to move in that direction, but it was not intended that any inquiry should go behind the judicial inquiry of 18G8 before the Native Lands Court. That was a full and fair inquiry, and must be held to have settled everything to that time. If there were unfulfilled promises since ISGB regarding schools and hospitals, it was only fair to the natives they should be inquired into. He hoped the amendment would be withdrawn.

Mr J. B. Brown said if the hon member’s amendment passed it would injure the colony as well as the natives of the Midd'e Island, because there were unfulfilled promises, and the natives had already collected a very large sum of money to test the matter before the highest Courts of the Empire. He was glad Government would not go behind the settlement made after inquiry in 1868. He was convinced it would be better to leave the matter in the hands of the Government. Mr Macandrew’s amendment was negatived on the voices, and the resolution agreed to. RESIDENT MAGISTRATE AT AUCKLAND. In reply to Mr Sheehan, Hon C. C. Bowen said the appointment of Mr Fenton as Resident Magistrate at Auckland was only temporary. There was absolutely no foundation for any rumors that Government had taken any steps towards a permanent appointment. NOTICE OF MOTION. Mr Thomson gave notice to move a resolution that next session of Parliament should not open later than the first week in June, and that the Government should have all their Bills ready, so that there would be no loss of time. BILL DISCHARGED. The Bankruptcy Act Amendment Bill was discharged. TRAMWAY COMPENSATION. Mr White moved the second reading of the Westland Tramway Owners Compensation Bill, the object of which is to enable the Provincial Government of Westland to give compensation in land instead of money. He would not press the Bill if Government would promise to inquire into the matter. Hon Major Atkinson promised that Government would carefully consider the matter, with a view of bringing down a proposal if they considered the claims good, but would give no pledge. The Bill was withdrawn. LODGERS’ ENFRANCHISEMENT. Mr Wakefield moved second reading of the Lodgers’ Enfranchisement Bill, which was to give lodgers the same franchise as had been enjoyed by lodgers in England since 1867.

Hon C. 0. Bowen said the Bill was a good one, and Government would support it. It was desirable that so important and intelligent a class as lodgers should be represented. The Bill was supported by Kir G. Grey, Messrs Hunter, Andrew, McLean, Dignan, and others, and Mr Reid opposed it. The Bill was read a second time. MOTION DISCHARGED. Mr Stout’s motion regarding the leasing of the waste lands of the colony was discharged. THIRD READINGS. Gold Mining Districts Act Amendment Bill, 1873; Napier Harbour Board Bill, Wellington Wharf Extension Bill, Public Libraries Powers Bill, Moeraki Harbour Board Bill, Otago Harbour Board, Clutha River Conservation, Imbecile Passengers’ Act, Invercargill Public Offices Site Bill, Wellington Reclaimed Land Bill. ORDERS DISCHARGED. Several orders of the day were discharged, including the Christchurch Drainage, the Hokitika Wharfage, and Telegram Copyright Bills, with Mr Stout’s i esolution regarding the Leasing of Waste Lands. The House adjourned at six p.m.