GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Globe, Volume IV, Issue 390, 11 September 1875, Page 2

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

[Pee Pbess Agency.] HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Wellington, September 10. ABOLITION BILL. The House resumed last night at half-past seven, and has been sitting continuously all night. Mr Sheehan, who had been speaking at 7.3Q.p.m., roanmprl at eight, followed by Mr r>npnij33HDiir»T, yrho spofeC lrom eight till twenty minutes past eleven. Mr Montgomery, on his own responsibility, suggested as a compromise that the Bill should not come into operation till after next Parliament, and that Provincial Councils should be prevented entering into any new contracts, or passing any Ordinances till then.

The Hon Sir D. M'Lean intimated that the Government were prepared to consider any propositions made in a fair and reasonable spirit. After a few words from Mr Gibbs, in the same direction, Mr O'Neill referred tb the petition presented by Sir Geoige Grey, and pointed out that the Thames constituency was as large as that of Auckland, and that both Thames and Coromandel were in favour of immediate abolition.

Mr Swanson recommended an adjournment, so that Government and the leaders of the Opposition might confer; if not, they must fight it to the bitter end. Mr Wood opposed all compromise, and intimated in the most decided language that the Opposition would talk against time, until Parliament expired by the effluxion of time, as that was the wish of the people. Mr Stout followed, and read for hours from a large pile of books, extracts upon Federal Government. The chairman left the chair at one o'clock to-day.

Upon the House resuming at two, Mr Wabd proceeded to speak. About 2.20 the Sergeant-at-Arms took the mace away from under the committee table. Mr Sheehan at once raised a point of order, and a sharp discussion followed, which at halfpast two was cut short by the entrance of Mr Speaker, who took the chair and opened the House w.th prayer. Mr Brandon and Mr Stout raised a point of order that the Speaker taking the chair was irregular. Mr O'RORKE ruled the proceedings quite valid and the House was in committee. Mr Brandon and Mr Fitzherbert contended that, under the circumstances, there was no chairman of committee.

The Speaker explained that he took the proper course, and the only one that could possibly be taken. The House, if in doubt, could fall upon the ruling of the chairman of committees, or ask the Speaker to take the chair. Mr Rolleston pointed out how the action of the Speaker interposed in the presenting of petitions. Mr Fitzhebbeet said the only way to settle the question was to move that the Speaker take the chair. Mr Sheehan maintained that it was a breach of privilege that progress had not been reported, as the sitting was continuous.

Mr O'Rorke ruled that the committee was sitting constitutionally. A long and warm discussion ensued, in the course of which Mr O'Rorke twice again ruled that the proceedings had been perfectly regular, and that the House was properly in committee ; but Mr Reid aud Mr Bunny strongly insisted on the view that, in conse quence of the irregularity, the present pro ceedings were invalid, and even if they at once passed abolition through all its stages it would not be of any avail, as all their subsequent proceedings had been vitiated The only way out of the difficulty was for the Speaker to take the chair. Mr O'Rorke explained that the Speaker could not revise any decision given by the Chairman of Committee, even if he resumed the chair.

Mr J. E. BKOWN cited an instance to show that the Speaker could over-ride the decision of the Chairman of Committee.

Mr O'Rorke —That is when he has doubts, but I have none upon this point. The question was then put that progress be reported, and a division taken and lost by 32 against 29. Mr Stout said in order to give the Government supporters something to do, he would move that the Chairman leave the chair. They were quite prepared to keep the majority there for four months. Mr Stafford, notwithstanding the dictatorial tone of the youngest member of the House, would tell him that there was no instance on record of a minority coercing a majority. A majorily always ruled a House. A minority might waste a good deal of time, yet they must succumb in the end. The ruleß of Parliament afforded hundreds of means by which the majority could carry their point. " Mr Reid wanted to know what new and terrible tactics were to be put in motion against the Opposition. Hon Major Atkinson said it seemed that any unusual tactics came from the Opposi tion, who considered that one third of the House should do as they chose with the majority. Notwithstanding all the threats of the Oppositiou, that the Bill would not be advanced a stage, it had been advanced, and would continue to be advanced, and he had no doubt passed after some weeks. He thought a month of sittings like last night would be as much as the Opposition cared about. They would soon see whether twenty-three members, who composed the Opposition, or forty-six who supported the Government measure, really expressed the views of the country. If the minority were determined to obstruct the business of the House, the majority must take steps to protect themselves. The hon member suggested that those who considered the proceedings now irregular or illegal had better go home. Let the remainder of the House pass this Bill, and those who had doubts could afterwards test its validity in a court of law. .

The Speaker observed, in reference to the point of order, that he thought it desirable he should inform the House that possibly to-morrow, or at any rate at some future time, and from time to time, he should think it his duty to take the chair as Speaker and take counsel with the House on certain matters on which his ruling might be required.

Mr Fitzherbert made a few remarks on this intimation, and on the supposed threats made by certain members on the Government side.

Mr Bunny said that though there was a majority against them in the House, they assuredly had a majority with them in the country. • The Opposition will not be beat by the Government. On the contrary, they will be in a better condition at the end of the month than now. If, however, the Government will meet the Opposition in a conciliatory spirit, and if concessions were made on both sides, the Opposition would assist in passing such a measure even this session as will meet the requirements of the country, which the present Bijl does not. Instead of abolishing the provinces, it retains all the worst features of the present provincial inBtILULIULIB.

Mr Stout denied that the Opposition were speaking against time all last night. Mr SwANSON began talking about 4.30, and kept it up till 5.20. wnen the House rose.

The House resumed at 7,30. Mr Swanson continued his remarks for about ten minutes, when Mr Murray took up the discussion, and interspersed his speech with letters and extracts from newspapers, and upon request, read one letter regarding the Hauraki bush twice over.

At ten minutes past eight, Mr Bunny said something to Mr Murray, who cut short his remarks, and the Hon Major Atkinson moved progress be reported, which was agreed to.

The Native Minister then said it was desirable that the present state of things should be terminated. As certain proposals had been made to the Government by the Opposition regarding . the question at issue, he would move that the House adjourn till Tuesday next, when the Government would consider these proposals, and he hoped that by that time they should all meet in better temper. The motion was agreed to. It is understood that a meeting of the Government supporters will be held tomorrow, and that the proposals of the Opposition will then be submitted and considered.

{From a correspondent of the Press.) The aspect of theg House last night immediately before the ten o'clock adjournment is well described by the Tribune, as follows: An old party was on his legß muttering away to no one in particular, and certainly no one was listening. There were twenty members in the House, generally stretched in all sorts of lazy but very undignified postures, some of them asleep, most of them like James Ballantyne's little philosopher, "thinking of nothing;' the Hansard reporters striving to catch a sentence of the speaker now and again, as he explained the rationale of athletic exercises in general and Caledonian sports in particular. As for the press reporters, the less perhaps said about them the better, for they had fallen into the ways of the " Heathen Chinee," and were actually enjoying a quiet game of euchre or some other wicked game of cards. After ten, as the night wore on, as many varieties of procrastinating eloquence were exhibited as there had been of botanical and feminine eloquence at the horticultural show during the day. With little exception silence was the only reply. Preparations were made on both sides for passing the night in a recumbent position, 'possum rugs, spare coats, travelling caps of sleepy looking form and material, slippers of every possible device within the Standing Orders for getting through the night either asleep or awake gradually accumulated in various parts of the House, and were luxuriously disposed by the possessors. Occasionally a little variety was afforded by the farce of asking the chairman to "count the committee." Of course he followed the usual custom of doing so, slowly enough to allow fair play to both sides, time for the ranks of the Opposition to file out, and those of the Government to file in, and even if he failed to discover " a quorum," the ringing of the bells invariably brought in enough workers in the Ministers' room, and of loungers in the library, Bellamy's, or the lobby to make up the necessary numbers. The last act this morning, as day broke, was one of general snore from some fourteen or fifteen recumbent sleepers, being addressed bj

the member for (31ut.hu. His two ey«*B aloift were open out of a score and a half or so in the House. But the ceasing of his monotonous 3peech at length induced to the opening the organs of first hearing and then of sight, and the rising of his successor, Mr Reeves. Then the weary Speaker entered and consulted with the yet more weary Chairman of Committees. After which the latter announced the result to be an adjournment, at a quarter past 6 till 10 o'clock—enough for a wash, breakfast, and a walk, in whatever order each might prefer. At 10 o'clock the same programme was resumed, and continued throughout the entire day, with an hour of adjournment for lunch. The position of Mr O'Rorke, who must keep the chair, and the Hansard reporters, who by the express instructions of the House, twice declared, must take every word spoken, is worthy of the deepest Sympathy. The one must be relieved, and the others assisted, or calamity is certain to result to both.

Mr Murray has eriven notice to move—- " That it be an instruction to the committee appointed to consider the questions relating to the disqualification of members to consider and report—l. If money paid out of loan or otherwise to or for Sir J. Vogel in 1871, 1872, or 1873, for his former excursion with his family to Europe, and called costs of raising t' e loans, did not come within the meaning of the Disqualification Acts. 2. If a portion of £«000 now drawn by Sir J. Vogel, in his present excursion to Europe with his family, in excess of salary or lawful expences, does not disqualify him under the said Acts. 3. If Sir J. Vogel ceased to be Premier after the last Ministerial change, does his drawing the excess of the Premier's salary over that of the Postmaster-General not disqualify him. 4.' If he is not duly and properly a sworn Minister of the Crown, does his receipt of public money not disqualify him." Mr Murray also has on the order paper a string of resolutions proposing a convention of members to be elected by the colony as one constituency to frame a constitution.

When Mr O'Rorke vacated the chair at one o'clock to-day, Mr Audrew quoted May, to show that the chairman was usurping a most important privilege in leaving the chair at his own option. This power might be made very dangerous as a means of impeding business, if the chairman happened to be a strong political partisan. The chairman said he had only been acting in accordance with long established usage in the House, but upon looking into the matter found he was exceeding his powers. He would in future avoid any such infringement of the rules. Fully three hours were occupied in discussing the position of the Bill. After the Speaker had entered the House and had taken the chair, like Jacks-in-the-Box, Mr Stout, Mr Reid, Mr Fitzherbert, Mr Sheehan and Mr Bunny were on their feet with points of order, contending that by the Speaker's entrance a fresh day's business had begun. O'Rorke persistently maintained his position, and tried to get the opinion of the House on the subject, and to that end that the chairman do leave the chair was proposed, Mr O'Rorke having shown that the chairman's decision could not be overruled except by direction of the House. Mr Sheehan moved that progress should be reported for obtaining the Speaker's opinion. Messrs Stafford and Sir D. Bell supported that view. After a division the Speaker maintained that the chairman's ruling had been perfectly correct, and entreated the committee to support it, but Mr Stout immediately rose and moved that the chairman should leave the chair, saying the Opposition could not be moved from their present position for the next four months. Mr Stafford informed the youngest member of the House that the majority could not be forced by the minority, and could not be coerced. The action of the minority could cause a little delay, but it would also cause irritation and certainly a little personal inconvenience, but the majority should prevail in the end. He told the youngest member of the House fully to understand that it was possible, under the forms of the House, that the will of the majority should have its sway. To the hon member's' warning he answered with a warning, and further told him there were means for carrying out that will, which he recommended should be immediately broughtintoforce. Mr Reid snapped his fingers at the Bill, saying by the action that had been taken all the previous proceedings were rendered illegal." Major Atkinson came out with a very vigorous reply, and asked if the majority of two-thirds of the House represented nothing. He asked the member for Taieri to recollect the members of Dunedin and Christchurch were on the other side of the House. [Mr Reid—But they don't represent their constituents.! No doubt the member for Taieri could dispose of thetn by a stroke of his pen, as he had already done with the law officers of the Crown, the Speaker of the House, and the chairman of committees. It would appear that the Opposition knew everything, and Ministers were ignorant. [Oppositioncheers.] All their talk to the House and the country had been that the Bill should not advance a single stage, and that every stage would be resisted to the death; yet in the course of a few days, notwithstanding the warnings of the Opposition, there was little doubt the Bill would go through committee, and in a few weeks pass the third reading. The facts were with the Government, and the boasting with the Opposition. When it came to going to" the people, it would be seen whether twenty-three really represented the country. If the present course was persisted in, the majority must take extraordinary measures to protect themselves. But he was satisfied that the good sense of the Opposition would show Ihem that such action was not constitutional, and not for the good of the country, and would not redound to their credit. Sir D. Bell intimated that he had determined not to be guided by the action of New South Wales Parliament, which for three days and nights refused to allow the chairman to leave the chair, but would sometime to-morrow take the sense of the Houpe on its position. The general impression seems to be that it would have been better had the sitting been made continuous as was done in New South Wales. I, however, understood Sir D. Bell took the present course after consulting Sir J. Richardson and Mr O'Roike.