GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Globe, Volume IV, Issue 353, 30 July 1875, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

[By Telegraph.] (From a correspondent of the Press.) Wednesday, July 29. ABOLITION OP THE PROVINCES. Mr Reeder Wood asked Ministers whether they had taken steps, by means of an authoritative legal opinion or opinions, to remove doubts that exist as to the constitutional powers of the Assembly to abolish the provinces, and if they would at once communicate such opinion or opinions to the House, together with any correspondence in connection therewith. His reason for putting the subject in the form of a question instead of in the more usual way, viz, in the form of a motion, was that he did not consider the House would care to go into a debate on the question of the kind that doubts did exist as to the legal power of the House to pass the resolution which it was proposed to pass in reference to the abolition of the provinces. It was, without a question, that such had been absolutely stated. The first time his (Mr Wood’s) attention had been drawn with any seriousness to the legal aspect of the affair, was some months ago by the member for Auckland City West. On a public occasion that member (Mr Gillies) had stated that he had given the question his most earnest consideration, and had come to the conclusion that the House had not power to abolish the provinces. [Hear,hear.] The Constitution Act provided by the first section— The Speaker said that this was a debateable question. Mr Wood said he was simply stating a fact. The fiist section of the Constitution Act provided that there should be provinces. The third section of the Act says that there shall be Superintendents and Provincial Councils, and no Amending Act gives the House power to alter that provision. The Speaker ruled the hon member out of order. Mr Wood— Subsequently in 1868 the Imperial Parliament passed an Act, the title of which was, “ An Act to declare the powers of the General Assembly of New Zealand to abolish any province in that colony, or to withdraw from any such province any part of the territory thereof.” The question was whether the Act could be understood to imply “all” the provinces. The next point was a dispatch from Lord Carnarvon in reply to a petition sent home by the Seperintendentof Auckland, in which he referred to the powers of the House on the question under notice. Lord Carnarvon stated this was a subject which the Assembly was, in his opinion, quite competent to discuss, as they had already fully and ably done, but he did not say (as he apprehended he would have done) that the Assembly had full power to settle and determine that the whole of the provinces should be abolished. His object in putting the question was to show that the doubts entertained were reasonable doubts, and he had no doubt that as the subject had been brought under the notice of the Government some time since, they had taken those steps which it was reasonable to suppose they would take to have those doubts resolved. Sir Donald M ! Lean—The Government is perfectly satisfied and quite sure that the power at present exists in this House. Of that there is no matter of donbt or hesitation. They had taken the opinion of the late Attorney-General on the subject, which he nowlaid on the table. Itread as follows:—“ To the Colonial Secretary,— An Act of the Imperial Parliament (31 and 32 Vic., c. 92) is intituled An Act to declare the powers of the General Assembly of New Zealand to abolish any province in that colony, or to withdraw from any such province any part of the territory thereof. It expressly authorises the Assembly to abolish any province. This means any one or more or all the provinces. Upon the abolition of the province or provinces the provincial system will have no existence in the district or districts heretofore included within the province or provinces abolished, and the Assembly must provide for the local concerns of such dis-

tricts. Questions have been raised as to the construction of the Act above referred to, and though I see i o reason for doubt or question, I think that it would be well that the Secretary of State should be asked to take the opinion of the law officers in England, and if any doubt whatever is entertained by them, that a Bill should at once be passed for removing the doubt, “ James Prendergast, “ December Ist, 1874.” Mr Fitzherbert moved that the document be printed. Sir George Grey said the present Chief Justice gave an opinion a few years since in which he said the meaning of the words “ to abolish a province” was simply to alter its boundaries. He would ask the Government to produce that document also. Mr Fitzherbert asked the Ministry to have the document to which the member for City West referred printed alongside (in parallel columns) the present opinion upon which Ministers so implicitly and credulously relied. Mr Bunny —Are we to understand that the Government is willing, or will it be necessary to move a motion for the production of that opinion, in order to see the difference of opinion in the various stages of a man’s life. Sir Donald McLean said there would be no objection to producing it, if thought desirable. Mr MURRAY wished to know whether the suggestion of the Chief Justice had been complied with. Sir Donald McLean replied in the negative, miners’ rights. Sir George Grey moved —“ That there be laid upon the table copies of the reports of the commissioners appointed to enquire into the alleged illegal issue of miners’ rights at the opening of the Ohinemuri gold-fields, and of all the papers in connection therewith.” Sir Donald McLean said a report had been received and submitted to the law officer of the Crown, whose opinion was that the evidence did not bear out the conclusion arrived at. The Government had therefore determined to institute an open inquiry into the matter, to be held at the Thames at as early a date as possible. THE JUDGES. Mr ROLLESTON moved for all correspondence relating to the recent changes in the distribution of the Supreme Court Judges. He asserted that the recent action of the Government in removing the Judges tended to create uneasy feelings that the independence of the Judges was not secured, and also that a reflection had been cast upon the Judges. Hon 0. C. Bowen replied that no one could be more jealous than the Government of the independence of the judges. It was impossible at the same time to collect the judges in one centre, and carry out the express wish of the House' that the judges should not always remain in the same places. He hoped, in future, that with the advice of the judges, the Government would be able to make arrangements satisfactory to the country, and to fully provide for the dignity and independence of the Supreme Court, There was not the shadow of an idea of imputing that any blame was attachable to the distinguished gentlemen occupying the bench. The correspondence would be laid on the table. Messrs Wales and Shepherd said the change had proved beneficial. INSTITUTE OF ENGINEERS. Mr Shepherd’s motion for a Select Committee, to consider the advisability of establishing “an Institute of Civil Engineers,” with the view of preventing unqualified persons from practising as civil and railway engineers, was postponed, the Minister of Public Works expressing doubts as to the utility of such a body. Thursday, July 29. The Speaker took the chair at the usual hour. . PETITIONS. Among the petitions presented was one by Mr Stafford, from the inhabitants of Timaru, in favor of the abolition of the provinces. NOTICES OF MOTION. Mr MURRAY gave notice of his intention to move—“ That the finance committee should report on the finances of the colony, and until so reported, the House would defer the consideration of the estimates. The Speaker [informed the hon member for Bruce that the finance committee was not political, and could not consider the question. Mr Murray subsequently gave notice of a special committee. QUESTIONS. 1. Mr G. McLean asked the Government in communicating with Europe by cable it the Government now use cypher, and if so, at what date it was brought into use ? 2. Mr G, McLean asked the Colonial Treasurer —(1) At what rate the bank buy Government drafts on London, and at what sight they are drawn between the respective periods of the Ist October to the 31st of March, and from the Ist of April to the 30th of November respectively. (2) If the agreement with the Bank set out on page 25 of the papers relating to the four million loan, is that now in force ? 3. Mr Sheehan asked whether Ministers have consulted the law officers of the Government as to the legal or constitutional .validity of the appointment of Mr Vogel to the office of Postmaster-General, and whether it is intended to bring in any Act this session for the purpose of validating the acts done by him if under disability ? 4. Mr Andrew asked the Minister of Justice whether the importation and acclimatisation of weasles is prohibited by any and, if so, by what Act ? 5. Mr Swanson asked the Defence Minister —(1.) If he will lay on the table of the House all correspondence, reports, and other papers in relation to a trial or inquiry held in Waikato in March last in the case of Captains Rowe and Schodefield, who were charged with certain offences by Sergeant Craig and Sapper Fawcett; (2), to state what action the Government had taken or intend to take in the matter. 6. Mr W. Kelly asked (1) what progress had been made towards the construction of the bridges across the Waimata and Waipawa Rivers near Gisborne. (2), Whether the sum voted last session for buildings in the district of Gisborne had been expended there. 7. Mr W. Kelly asked if it was the intention of the Government to construct a proper dray road between Tauranga, Ohinemuri, and the Thames goldfields. 8. Mr Carrington asked what steps the Government had taken towards the erection of a light at Cape Egmont, and when the light was likely to be erected ? 9. Mr Curtis asked if any proposals had been received by the Government for Ihe 1 construction of a trunk railway between

Foxhill and Brunnerton, and if they would lay copies of any correspondence on the subject upon the table ? 10. Captain Kenny asked why it had been decided to hold the sittings of the Supreme Court at Blenheim instead of at Picton, and if there was any objection to lay upon the table copies of the correspondence upon the subject. 11. Mr Harrison asked what was the cause of the delay in the payments of the awards of compensation to persons in Greymouth whose properties have been taken for public purposes, 12. Mr Webb asked if it was the intention of the Government to introduce a Bdl during the present session to amend the Municipal Corporations Act ? 13. Mr Bucklasd asked when the railway from Mercer to Newcastle will be completed ? In answer to the above questions Ministers said—(l) The Government sometimes used cypher. (3) The Government had no doubt about Bir Julius Vogel’s position; therefore they had not taken a legal opinion, nor considered it necessary to bring in a Bill to validate his acts. Sir Julius Vogel on going home had taken with him ample powers from the colony. (4) The Government was not aware of any Act prohibiting the importation of weasles. (5) When the correspondence which explained the action of the Government was completed it would be laid on the table. (6, 7) They had no funds for the work; £22,000 would be required for the road, and the Government had no funds for the purpose. (8) The erection of the light on the Brothers was being urged on as fast as possible. When completed they intended to remove the Mana light, (9) The correspondence would be laid on the table, (10) The removal had been made at Ihe suggestion of the Grand Jury of Blenheim, supported by Judge Richmond. (II) The claims would be satisfied so soon as the memorandum with the landowners was executed. (12) The Government, at the instance of the Christchurch City Council, proposed to bring in an Amending Municipal Corporations Bill, and would be happy to receive suggestions from the member for Lyttelton. In answer to Mr McLean’s second question, Hon Major Atkinson said there is no definite or written arrangement as to the price of drafts. An arrangement is made from time to time as it is found convenient. The last arrangement was made by my predecessor in September, before he went to England. Under it we give three and threeeighths per cent for ninety days’ sight, and that was continued till March last. [Mr McLean Since March we have drawn at sixty days, paying one-eighth. The effect is this—The money is placed to our credit immediately upon the mail going out, so that we are paying interest at three per cent, upon the money here for two months, and also for two months at three-quarters per cent less than the Bank of England rate; that is to say, we get double interest on the money during four months. With regard to the second portion of the question, the arrangement lately entered into by Sir Julius Vogel with the Bank is still in force. In answer to a question without notice by Mr W. Kelly, Hon Major Atkinson said papers would be laid on the table this afternoon fully explaining Sir Julius Vogel’s actions in ordering the stoppage of free immigration. When it came to the knowledge of the Government here that it had been stopped, they expressed their disapproval, and at once gave orders that it should be continued, bills introduced. Leave was given to Sir George Grey to introduce the Auckland Institute Bill; the Auckland City Endowments and Reserves Bill; to Mr Cuthbertson to introduce the New River Harbor Board Bill, and the Invercargill Gas Loan Act Amendment Bill. GOVERNMENT ENGINEERS. Mr O’Conor’s motion, for a return showing the names of persons employed in the service of the colony as engineers, together with the qualification of the persons so employed, was opposed by the Hon B. Richardson, Messrs Reid and Fitzherbert, the latter saying he was bound to say that the greatest care had been bestowed in the selection of engineers by the Public Works department, and the matter might be safely left to the Minister. The motion was withdrawn. RIMUTAKA LINE. Mr Wakefield’s annual motion re the alternative line over the Rimutaka range was negatived. TAIRUA BLOCK. Sir George Grey’s motion for a committee of enquiry into the sale of the Talma Block was agreed to, the Government stating that they wished the fullest enquiry. NATIVE LAND PURCHASES. On Sir George Grey’s motion for a select committee of enquiry into the native land purchase, the Government made a similar statement, Sir D, M‘Leau adding he would produce all the correspondence with the reservation that that relating to unfinished transactions should not be published, or that the whole should be referred to a committee. Mr T. Kelly and Mr Buckland spoke upon the risk of the information leaking out if the papers were laid on the table, which in the public interest should not be made public unduly. Sir G. Grey held the Government to the first reply of the Native Minister He complained that information he as Superintendent considered necessary in the public service had not been accorded. Not only that, but on several important points to which he should have received instantaneous reply, his application was treated with silent contempt. He could not sec any good reason why the first offer of the Government should be withdrawn. The motion was agreed to. GOVERNMENT BANKING. Mr Rolleston, in moving that it be an instruction to the public accounts committee to inquire into and report upon the condition under which the banking business of the Government is conducted by the Bank of New Zealand, or whether these conditions are imperatively required that so large a sum as between three and four millions should be deposited, and to report whether it is not in the interest of the colony at large that other arrangements should be made for the future, to report in three weeks, said New Zealand was the only Australasian colony, Queensland excepted, where public account was given to a solitary bank. Major Atkinson said if this had been

brought forward as a political question the Government would have considered it as a censure upon the Government, but as it was moved, it was only perfectly reasonable and right that such reference should be made The Government thought that it would be very difficult to make arrangements more advantageous to the colony than at present exist. The bank undoubtedly had been of great service to the colony, and at all times met the Government in a liberal spirit. It was only justice to the bank to say so. If the Government thought better arrangements could have been made, it would have been their duty to submit a proposition to the House, The motion was agreed to.