PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Globe, Volume IV, Issue 318, 19 June 1875, Page 3

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Friday, June 13th The following is the continuation of the report of the proceedings in the Provincial Council yesterday : THE APPROPRIATION BILL, 1875-6 The Provincial (Secretary, by leave, brought in this Bill which was read a first time and ordered to be printed. On the motion for the second reading being put, Mr Montgomery said—Before this Bill be read a second time, I wish to claim the attention of the House for a few minutes, while I touch on matters pertaining to the policy of the present. Government, and the financial position of the province. Honorable members will re:nember the financial statement made by the Provincial Secretary on the sth of May. He drew a somewhat sombre picture of our finan cial position. He stated that there were heavy liabilities to meet, that the land revenue had so fallen off that there would be, or must be, a large deficit at the end of the current year, and that " in our present financial position it would be absolutely necessary that we should make up as far as we can the deficiency of our revenue. We have a certain deficit to meet, and the people must make up their minds to bear additional burdens to do so." He therefore shadowed forth the proposals for increased building rates and school fees, and increased railway rates. He further stated that —" In the face of the fact that the revenue has considerably fallen, and shows signs of still further reduction, it has appeared to the Government that in every department it is necessary to practise the most severe economy possible." He showed what he called a deficit of £260,000, which might be further increased by £20,000 on the supplementary estimates. He pointed out that the Secretary for Public Works would state what items of the estimates could be omitted or reduced, and towards the close of his speech he said—- " Whatever economies we may effect before passing the Appropriation Ordinance, will, we hope, reduce the balance against us." He did not use the term " bankruptcy," or even " financial difficulty," but the whole tone of his statement was such as to convey a very uucomfortable impression to his hearers. So decided was the feeling thus produced, that the hon member for Mount Cook immediately rose and said hon members must have been startled at the statement just made. Other hon members made similar remarks, and this impression was conveyed throughout the colony. The Secretary for Works on the Tuesday following made his statement, and then pointed out what items could be struck out of the estimates or reduced, and he closed his statement with these words—" By adopting a rigid scrutiny into the public works aud railway department, the Government hope during the financial year so to arrange the expenditure as to bring the accounts down at the termination of the year in such a state as to show a sound financial position." Hon members will see that the Secretary for Works and the Provincial Secretary wished to establish the fact that the finances were in a somewhat critical position, but that with strict economy we might prevent a financial difficulty. They did not, as far as I can remember, throw out imputations against their predecessors, and it was quite natural they should endeavor to make out the best case they could for themselves. It was reserved for the President of the Executive to bring accusations against the former Government, and to make the emphatic promises. He has repeatedly thrown out imputations of reckless expenditure against the late Government, and even at the conference with the Governors oi the College on the 3rd June he could not refrain. He then said —" Without using harsh terms, he might say that the Executive were simply suffering for the sins of those who had come before them. In deference to his conscience, he could not go on deceiving the public, and he must tell the deputation plainly that the Government had not really the means to place the .sums asked for on the supplementary estimates." At the time the financial statement was being discussed, the hon President of the Executive said that he objected to all sham estimates, and also said that, " He did not wish to prolong the debate, which had been protracted too long already; but this he would say, that it was the intention of of the present Government to present things in their proper light; to show the House that they could not vote sums of money in excessof of the funds at their disposal;" and again, when it was a question about whether a promise given by me on the part of the late Government was not fulfilled, he said—- " Why should we not act in the same manner?" He answered that "All men were not alike." He did not use the exact words —" Thank God, I am not as other men are;" but the words used were uttered in the same self-appreciative spirit with which they were spoken more than 1800 years ago. Now, have these promises been kept ? The hon member for Lincoln (Mr J.N. Tosswill) showed conclusively that with respect to the amount to be derived from the contributions from school districts on account of school buildings, the Provincial Secretary's figures were all wrong, and partly, I think, in consequence of his (Mr Tosswill's arguments, and partly because it dawned upon the Executive that the people would not stand it, and partly because their late colleague (the Provincial Solicitor) would not stand it, that part of their policy was abandoned; and as stated by the Provincial Secretary, £15,000 were lost to the Treasury. When the estimates were passing through committee the items for College, Museum, and public buildings were struck out, making the promised reduction of about £3(5,000. There were no other reductions made that 1 am aware of, and the House and the Province will remember these reductions were for works required in one locality. But when we came to consider the amount of the supplementary estimates, we find that instead of £20,090, the supplementary estimates No L showed £72,850, and supplementary estimates No 2 showed £37,705; and if we deduct the sum of £IO,OOO, equivalent of amount to bo paid into the Treasury by the school dis t.ricts, we have the large amount of £100,555 voted on the supplementary estimates. This is somewhat in excess of £20,000, the amount stated to be required by the Provincial Secretary. In sbort, this is the position at present. In the Bill now under the consideration, the amount to be appropriated is £1,273,412, and by the secretary's statement at the beginning of Ihi session the revenue for the year was i nly £!)35.198, leaving a deficit, as he 1 term* it, of £335,214. 1 ask this Council to

remember the emphatic declarations of the President of the Executive, and I need not ask if the promises made have been kept. I take the statements of the honorable gentlemen themselves. There should be no more shams; the Council was entreated to assist the Government in making reductions, and in the language of the President, " It was the intention of the present Government to present things in their proper light; to show the House that they could not vote ! sums of money in excess of the funds at their disposal. Why, sir, they have asked and obtained more than their estimated receipts from the land revenue for three years, when the expenses of surveys are deducted. In other words, they have pledged the land revenue three years in advance of the current period. Why, sir, the late Government was taken to task and criticised severely for obtaining votes for £160,000 more than the estimated revenue. We showed then that we were justified in so doing by the fact that the expenditure ou some of the large works would extend over two or three years. We knew that at the end of the financial period there would be the following balance unexpended on works in course of construction, and under contemplation : —Amouuts which it was considered would not be expended within the financial period—Harbor works, Lyttelton, £122,000; Timaru breakwater, £100,000; Point railway, £50,000 ; Waimate branch, £IO,OOO ; water supply, Ashburton, £25,000; Malvern, £IO,OOO ; Waimate gorge and bridge over,Waihou, £10,000; Waimakariri gorge bridge, £IO,OOO ; Waitaki bridge (half cost), £5000; Lyttelton water supply, £5000; railway workshops and passenger station, £15,000; total, £362,000. But the present Government by their chief expressed their utter detestation of such a system of finance. It was their intention to firmly adhere to the new path of financial rectitude—" in short to show the House that they could not vote sums of money in excess of the funds at their disposal." I have not expressed an opinion yet as to whether we can safely vote the amount of £1,273,412 now asked for, but I think I have 83 placed the matter before the House that hon members can judge of the value of the promises of retrenchment and severe econorr.y made by the hon gentlemen on the Government benches. The hon member for Lincoln showed on two occasions that the Provincial Secretary was wrong in his figures, and the hon member for Riccartou showed that he had much under-estimated the land revenue. I obtained a return from the Land office on Tuesday, and up to that date the amount received was £63,040 10s, or in two months and a half more than the half of the estimated amount for the whole [year. I have shown that those honorable gentlemen on the Government benches were wrong in their finance, and I leave it to the House and the country to judge of their promises. In conclusion, I would wish to say that the financial condition of the province is perfectly sound, but we cannot disguise from ourselves that we have placed a large responsibility in the hands of the Government. We have granted £335,000 in excess of the estimated revenue for the current year, and the utmost prudence will be required in the expenditure. The contract for the Timaru breakwater cannot be entered into before asking the sanction of the Council ; but there is another large item—the amount voted for the Point railway —which I think cannot safely be all expended this year. I have considerable confidence in the ability of the gentlemen on the Government benches, and I trust they will use discretion in the administration of the affairs of the province; but I wish to put on record my opinion that great care must be taken during the current year, so that no financial difficulty may at any future time occur. I hope on such an occasion as this, when we are finally granting such large supplies, that I have not been considered as trespassing too much on the patience of hon members (" No, no ") when stating at some length my views on these important matters. The Provincial Secretary—Sir,—After what has fallen from the hon member for Heathcote (Mr Montgomery), it is incumbent on me to make some reply on the part of the Government to the remarks of the hon member. Sir, the hon gentleman has delivered a carefully prepared speech, which will of course appear fully and go forth to the pnblic. Now were this speech, which contains much that is incorrect altogether, to go forth to the public without any reply from the Government, the result would be that a false impression would be created throughout the province. In saying that the remarks of the hon member are not correct, I am not saying that he intended to state what was incorrect, but I say that the impression which his words are calculated to convey to the country, if uncontradicted by the Government, would be a false one. Now, sir, the hon member for Heathcote has twitted us that we have a larger sum of money on our estimates of expenditure than we have estimated revenue to provide for it, and that therefore we have no right to complain of the action of the late Government in bringing down their Appropriation Act for expending a large sum of money without revenue to meet it. [" Hear, hear," from Mr Montgomery ] The hon member says " Hear, hear;" but I would desire to point out to the hon gentlemen and to the House that there is a very great difference between the conduct of the late and present Governments. We, sir, warned the House from the first that there was a large deficiency to make up between revenue and expenditure, and that we should have to be prepared to meet it. [Hear, hear.] But what was the action of the late Government ? I never saw anything of this kind stated by the late Government: the Treasurer of the hon gentlemen, when making his financial statement, told us nothiDg about it, though they must have known perfectly wo'l hat there was a large amount to be voted in excess of revenue. [Hear, hear.] When the Appropriation Act was brought down by the hon member's Government, I, then a private member, called attention to the fact that the expenditure as voted was larger than revenue, but nothing was done. However, Sir, when I took office 1 took care that the Council and the province generally should know most distinctly what they were doing, and we then told the Council what we intended to do in the matter. Hon members know how our promises have been kept, and they will also recollect that in moving the House into committee of supply I said that it would be necessary for the Council to excuse the Government, because they had not had time to go into the matter, and that we had, since our financial statement, discovered that it would be necrssiry to put much larger sums on the estimates. [Hear, hear.] The hon member for Heathcote

heard me say this, and why did he not refer to this ? Why did not the hon gentleman say that this had been stated by us. [Hear, hear.] The hon member has taken the first financial statement, and not the one I afterwards made to the House explaining our position. I think it is not fair of him to garble statements. We came down to the House and paid that we found the amount was not sufficient, and we came to the Council and said so. But the late Government, sir, did nothing of this kind; they did not tell the Council anything, but simply placed large sums on the estimates without any revenue to meet them. Then the hon member said that the Government had not kept their promises, or had not acted up to what they said. Now what are the facts? Why that we said that with the amount of the supplementary estimates of some £20,000 we should have an actual deficiency of £ss,ooo—made up principally of those sums which, as I have before said, we found it necessary to place on the estimates, and we further stated that as the land revenue was producing more than we had anticipated, we could go into this expenditure. The hon member did not bring forward these facts on the side of#the Government, but simply took his own arguments without doing so. It was perhaps hardly to be expected that he would do this, but still it would only have been fair for him when making an attack upon the Government to have stated all the facts. [Hear, hear.] The hon gentleman says that the Government have under-estimated the land revenue, but, sir, I would desire to state that in our estimate we went beyond that of the Waste Lands Board. That Board put it down at £IOO,OOO, but we put it at £120,000, so that it cannot be said that we were to blame in under-estimating the land revenue. Besides, even although the land revenue may be in excess of our estimate on one part of the year, it does not follow that it will always be so. [Hear, hear.] I think that I have now dealt with the statements of the hoa member, and that I have conclusively shown that the promises and statements of the Government have been fulfilled. [Hear, hear.] I thought it only right that the Government statement in opposition to the remarks of the hon member should go forth to the country as well as those remarks, so as to let the country know exactly what is the true state of matters with regard to the conduct of the present Government. [Loud cheers.] Mr W. B. Tosswtll thought that the answer of the Provincial Secretary was one the lamest he had heard. The Government had come down saying that they were an economical Government; but the hon member for Heathcote had shown that if the late Government had sinned to the extent of ss, the present one had sinned to the amount of 10s. He thought that for the Government to get up and try to shelter themselves behind the fact that they had come down in the middle of the session with another statement was in no way an answer to the arguments and facts of the hon member for Heathcote. [Hear, hear.J Hon G. Buckley said that some £208,000 of votes had been handed to them as a legacy from the late Government. [Hear, hear.] The Government had shown in their estimates what amount of money should be spent in the present year, and what in those of the future. As regarded the hon member's warning as to contracts in the South, there were large sums accumulated to their credit, and the hon member for Heathcote knew, and no one better, that there were large sums belonging to the South which were being spent in the North. He could assure the hon member that the Government would see that equal justice was done between the North and the South, and that neither got a larger share than they were justly entitled to.

Mr Brown said that the estimates of the present Government were one-third composed of revotes put on by the late Government. Besides this the hon members who now twitted the present Government for having exceeded their revenue were the persons who time after time carried votes of money against the Government. The hon member for Riccarton (Mr Tosswill) was one who had endeavored to carry votes of money against the Government, and yet he was now one who blamed the Government for having voted more than their estimated revenue. [MrTosswiLL —The hon member is stating what is not the fact; I have only asked the Government for one vote.] He (Mr Brown) was one of the first to get up and point out that if the Government were allowed to put an excess vote on the estimates over their revenue, it left it in their hands to say what should be expended and what not. But he desired to say that the present Government had been pressed and driven into putting this sum on the estimates. ["Hear, hear,"from Mr Maskell.] This was because they were time after time forced to put money on the estimates against their wishes; and while the Government stated the province was insolvent, hon members opposite insisted that it was solvent, and that they should spend more money than their estimated revenue. [Hear, hear.] Therefore he did not think that it was fair to the present Government for members now to come down and accuse them with having exceeded their estimated revenue by the expenditure. [Hear, hear.J So far as he was concerned he had protested time after time against the practice of those hon members forcing the Government to place votes on the estimates when they knew that the estimated revenue would not be sufficient to meet them. It was therefore the hon members themselves who now accused the Government, who were to blame for what the hon member for Heathcote had charged the Government with. [Hear, hear and cheers.] The motion for the second reading was then put and carried on the voices. The House went into committee on the Bill, when it passed through committee without amendments, and was reported to the House. On the third reading being moved, Sir Cracroft Wilson said that the hon member for Heathcote had charged him with saying one thing and doing another, but he said this, that the estimates of the present Government were framed fairly and honorably, with a view to put the province fairly in possession of the facts of their position. The hon member, while ©n those benches, had promised everything right and left, and had left the present Government a legacy of re-votes which had swollen their estimates up to a large amount. If the hon member for Heathcote knew how the Government had resisted very high and strong influence brought to bear to get the Government to put a large sum on another set of supplementary estimates, he would allow that he (Sir C. Wilson) had done what he said he would at the early part of the session, viz,

resist any attempt to put on the estimates sums beyond their Tevenue. The hon member for Heathcote had said on leaving office that he would offer no factious opposition, but he (Sir O. Wilson) said that for the last four diys the respectable minority had evinced the most factious opposition. [" No, no," and hear, hear.J He should like to take a vote of the whole Council on it. [Laughter. | He said that to quibble about the question being put a few minutes before or after eight was factious opposition. It had been said that they had underestimated the land revenue, but the excess might cease in a month or two. [Sear, hear.J Mr Dixon could not allow the remarks made by the hon member opposite who had •just sat down to pass without comment. I Hear, hear.J That hon gentleman had charged the Ministry in the Council with having offered factious opposition, but he (Mr Dixon) most emphatically denied it. LHear, hear.] They had tried to do their best to save the Provincial Council from placing itself in a false position ■with regard to his Honor's message and amendments on the Education Bill, and it was owing to their efforts that the House had retrieved itself in this respect. What did the Government wish them to do 1 Why to adopt the reply planned by the hon member for Ashburton, which stated that having considered his Honor's amendments they were not prepared to agree with them, the fact being that the House, at the time the reply was proposed, had never had the amendments under its consideration. [Hear, hear.] Was that factious opposition ? He thought not. Besides, if the hon gentlemen opposite charged them with factious opposition, then they in effect said that his Honor had also offered factious opposition in the course he had taken on the Bill, as his views and those of the minority were identical on this subject. [Hear, hear, and " Oh, oh 1"J He most strongly protested against the use of the, words factious opposition by the gentlemen opposite. [Hear, hear.J Mr JOYNT did not desire to protract the discussion at that time, but he must enter his strong and indignant protest against the action which those who thought with him and himself had taken, being characterised by the hon President of the Executive as factious. [Hear, hear, from Mr Montgomery.] They had do- e their best to prevent the passing of the Education Bill, because they believed it would be found unworkable, and he must say that he regarded the legislation of the session as a perfect disgrace to them as legislators. [Cries of "oh 1 oh 1"] The Speaker—l don't think the hon member is in order in referring in such terms to the Council. [Hear, hear.] Mr JOYNT would, if the expression he used was not parliamentary, withdraw it, but the fact remained nevertheless. The respectable minority of that Council had tried hard to induce the majority to refrain from passing legislation of the character had spoken of, but without avail, therefore they had as a matter of course to give way. As he had said at the commencement it was not his intention to continue the debate, he simply rose to again emphatically protest against the charge made by the hon the President of the Executive that the minority in that Council had offered factious opposition. [Hear, hear.] The Bill was then read a third time and passed. PEOROGATION. His Honor then entered the Chamber and delivered the following prorogation address ;— — Mr' Speaker and Gentlemen. The business of the session having been brought to a close, it only remains for me to thank you for the attention which you have bestowed upon the matters which have been brought under your consideration. I assent, on behalf of his Excellency the Governor, to the following Bills : The Imprest Supply Ordinance, 1875. The Canterbury Sheep Ordinance, 1872, Amendment Ordinance, 1875. The Imprest Supply Ordinance, No 2, 1875. The Road BoaTd Advances Ordinance, 1875. The Reserve No 88 Ordinance, 1875, The Educational Reserves Leasing Ordinance, 1875. The Diversion of Roads Special Ordinance, No 1, 1875. The Diversion of Roads Special Ordinance, No 2, 1875. The Diversion of Roads Special Ordinance, No 3, 1875. The Diversion of Roads Special Ordinance, No 5, 1875. The Diversion of Roads Special Ordinance, No 6, 1875. The Diversion of Roads Special Ordinance. No 8, 1875. The Diversion of Roads Special Ordinance. No 7, 1875. The Width of Tires Ordinance, 1875* The Executive Council Ordinance, 1864, Amendment Ordinance, 1875. The Education Ordinance, 1875. The Appropriation Ordinance, 1875-76. I reserve for the signification of his Excellency the Governor's pleasure thereon : The Reserve No. 1599 Ordinance, 1875. The Quail Island Ordinance, 1875. The Classical Schools Reserves Ordinance, 1875. The Reserves Nos. 1207 and 1208 Ordinance, 1875. The Reserve No. 168 Ordinance, 1875. The Reserve No. 62 Ordinance, 1875. The Public Libraries Ordinance, 1875. The Educational Reserves Leasing Ordinance, No. 2, 1875. The Railway Tolls and Management Ordinance, 1875. The Fencing Ordinance, 1875. The Canterbury Sheep Ordinance Amendment Ordinance, No. 2, 1875. I now declare this Council prorogued. W. Rolleston, Superintendent. The session then closed.