MR H, R. WEBB AT LYTTELTON.

Globe, Volume III, Issue 251, 1 April 1875, Page 3

MR H, R. WEBB AT LYTTELTON.

Mr H. R. Webb, M.H.R. for Lyttelton, addressed the electors at the Colonists' Hall last evening, when there was a good attendance. His Worship the Mayor was to have taken the chair, bat was called away just before the meeting. Mr H. Allwright therefore took the chair, on the invitation of Mr Webb, until his Worship's arrival. The chairman having briefly requested a fair and impartial hearing for Mr Webb, called upon that gentleman to address the meeting. Mr Webb said that several of the members of the House having called their constituents together, he had thought it his duty to do so. He had to apologise for not having done so before, but uhis time had been so fully occupied in connection with the borough schools that he had not been able to do 80. As perhaps many of them had not had an opportunity of making themselves fully acquainted with the events of the last session, he would briefly touch upon the various measures of that session. First, then, he might say that the condition of the colony throughout was exceedingly prosperous-a result which he thought was to be attributed to the success of the immigration and public works policy, which had fully answered the expectations of those who had supported and advocated its enactment. In July last over 100 miles of railway were open, and now nearly as much more had been opened in addition. There were under contract in course of completion 421 miles; the total authorised distance being 1010 miles and forty-eight chains, and the appropriation made for the same amounted to £5,575,100. With regard to telegraphs, there were 2530 miles of telegraph now open, and several oew lines were in course of construction,

The telegraph was paying very well indeed, a result which he thought was due to the cheap rate of messages, and it was very gratifying to find that the telegraph was being taken such large advantage of by the people. Before leaving the question of railways, he might say that he ought to mention that the success generally of this branch of public works was due to the energy, foresight, and practical knowledge of his honorable colleague, the member for Lyttelton in the Provincial Council, the Hon Mr Richardson. [Cheers.] He felt sure all would give to this gentleman a meed of praise to which he was justly entitled, and which was accorded to him by members on all sides of the House. The immigration scheme was working well, and a very large addition to the population of the colony had been made under the auspices of the General Government. In native matters also very satisfactory progress was being made, the Native Minister, the Hon Donald McLean, having recently held satisfactory interviews with the principal chiefs. Another reason for the present satisfactory Btate of the native question was the establishment amongst the native race of schools, and bringing them and the white children together. He would now refer to the question of the indebtedness of the colony, and he would trouble them with a few figures which had been supplied to him by telegram from the Hon Mr Beynolds, who was now in charge of the Treasury. The total debt of the colony on 30th June, 1874, was £9,907,024 on general account, and on the provincial account, £3,504,712, making a total of £13,411,736. Against this total there were sinking funds accrued to the amount of £902,189 19s lOd, so that the total indebtedness of the colony on that date amounted to £12,509,546 0s 2d ; but since then—on the Ist November—the debt was further reduced by the redemption of Treasury bills to the extent of £IOO,OOO. The sums remaining to be raised were—lmmigration and public works loan, £9,327,900; defence loan, £192,000; general purposes, £230,900; making the total future debt of the colony £18,160,346 0b 2d. The annual charge on this sum will be £921,447 for interest. It is to be observed that before the annual liability accrues more than six millions had yet to be expended, namely, loans yet to be raised, £5,750,800; balance of cash in hand, £286,168; total, £6,036,968. That was the total indebtedness of the colony. There was one Bill out of many measures introduced to which he would viz, the Naval Training School Bill. The Government had a very good offer of a schooner at Auckland, which was taken advantage of, and the Bill became law. The Government intended to have a training ship at Port Chalmers, one at Wellington, and one at Auckland. Ultimately, however, the Government intended to have a training ship in each of the principal ports of the colony. This, he thought, was a step in the right direction, as the boys would be trained and educated, and thus reclaimed from bad and evil practices. Another important measure introduced was the Distillation Act. The principal distilleries in the colony, viz,at Dunedin and Auckland, wereinformed that in 1875 an additional Is per gallon would be imposed ; this, however, aroused the local distillers, and they petitioned the House. The Government finding that the revenue from imported spirits was falling off, gave notice that this extra shilling would be enforced. A committee met on this question, and it was then resolved on their report as the using of malt gave employment and profit to the farmers and laborers of the colony, that the charge on home made spirits should be the same as those imported. He did not know whether this was a step in the right direction or not. At the dinner of the Foresters held recently, a remark had been made respecting the friendly societies. He had recently been looking over Hanxard, and he found that Mr Fox, the member for Rangitikei, had brought the matter before the House. Mr Fox had askrd the Government whether they intended to alter the law, so as to allow of more reproductive investment of the money subscribed. The Premier, in reply, stated that the Government would take the matter into consideration, and he (Mr Webb) might say that if he could in any way improve the position of these friendly societies he would endeavour to have a provision to meet the case inserted in any Bill which might be brought in. Another Bill, which, however, did not pass, was the South Sea Islands Trade Bill, to foster and encourage the trade in that direction. However, he and other members could not see the utility of it, and the Bill was not passed. The next Bill to which he would refer was a very important one, viz—the State Forests Bill. The Pre* mier himself took great interest in the matter, and showed what large revenues were derived elsewhere, particularly in Germany, from the conservation of the forests. One clause referring to the reserving of a certain portion of land was struck out, and he thought rightly. The clause as it now stood was as follows :—" The state forests shall consist of such lands as the General Assembly shall from time to time determine, and of such lands within any province as the Superintendent of any province, on the recommendation of the Provincial Council of such province, shall in the meanwhile request the Governor to set apart for the purpose ; and the revenues arising from such lands shall be paid to the State Forests account." The hon. member for the Hutt (Mr FirzherberO objected to this being done, as he said it was an attempt on the part of the Government to get in by a side wind the creation of an estate for the colony out of the provinces. He (Mr Webb) did not think this, and fully believed the assertions of the Premier that such was not the case. Even if it were so, he did not see any harm in it, because if such an estate were created for the whole colony, all would participate equally in the benefit of it. Out of the remarks on this question made by Mr Fitzherbert, came the resolutions for the abolition of the provinces. This was one of the most important questions of the whole session, and he hoped they would pardon him if he dwelt longer upon this than the other portions of his address. It was objected on the part of many members that the time was inoppertune, but he might «*y that such was not the case in his opinion. Bven years back shewed that this was the course contemplated by statesmen. In support of this he would quote from the despatch of Earl Grey to show that this was the case:— Earl Grey, Secretary for the Colonies, writing in February, 1852, to Sir George Grey when Governor of New Zealand, thus expressed himself:—•" With respect to the powers to be entrusted to the Provincial Councils, 1 am disposed for my part—notwithstanding the alteration which yon state

to have taken place in your own views on this point—to think that, in the progress of events, as colonisation extends, and the several settlements are drawn nearer to each other in boundaries and interests, they will very soon assume more and more of a municipal character, while the functions of the General Legislature will increase. But I do not think it would be advisable to introduce any special provision either to accelerate or retard Buch a gradual change. Anticipations as to the course political affairs may hereafter take are everywhere liable to be disturbed by many unforeseen events, and most of all in new and advancing societies. Hence it seems to be the wisest course to rest satisfied with adapting the institutions which are to be established, as well as may be practicable, to the existing state of things, leaving their future development, and the alterations which a change of circumstances may hereafter require, to be effected by the local authorities thus created." And by an extract from a despatch from Sir John Pakington, who was the successor to Earl Grey on a change of Ministry:—" It has been thought advisable that the Provincial Councils should consist of a single chamber. They (Her Majesty's Government) have been led to this conclusion by the comparatively unimportant nature of the functions of these councils, which will be limited to local objects, such as would be considered here to be of a municipal character, rather than partaking of the higher attributes of legislature Nor have provisions been inserted giving executive authority of any kind to the superintendents. It is however my wish that any such executive powers as may be found necessary in order to carry on the functions of Government in the respective settlements, may be entrusted to these officers. This may be done by your own authority as representing the Crown, or by act of the central legislature, as the case may require, but they should at all events, be always included in the commission of the peace for their respective localities." He had gone to the Assembly as a stannch Provincialist, but he soon saw that nearly all the time of the Assembly was taken up by provincial legislation for the North Island in the matter of land bills and loan bills, borrowing for works which were not of a reproductive nature, and he soon saw that a change was necessary in.the government of the North Island provinces. He felt that it was not at all necessary to abolish the Middle Island provinces, as they, more especially the larger ones of Canterbury|and Otago, were doing their work well. The session before last he might say he had voted for these borrowing bills, but only because Canterbury had procured money for harbor works, which, however, had not been used. The provinces had done their work well, but .in the North Island the fruit was now ripehe might say rotten and therefore he and other members of the Assembly felt that the time had arrived when a fresh mode of Government should be introduced with regard to the North Island provinces. The Premier had introduced his resolutions. After a lengthened debate the resolutions were carried by a large majority. Tbe hon member for the Hutt (Mr Fitzherbert) had been outgeneralled on this question, and he had taken advantage of the motion that the House go into committee of supply to move an amendmer.t. The amendment was negatived by a large majority. On the first resolution respecting the seat of Government, there was a diversity of opinion. He would like to see it in Canterbury, but the Otago people did not seem to care particularly where it was; if anywhere they would like to see it in Canterbury. He might say that Wellington possessed many advantages, as geographically it was the centre of the colony. He thought, however, that the matter was now set at rest, as a very large vote had been taken last session for additions to the General Government buildings in Wellington, which were now being carried out. Coming back to the abolition of the North Island provinces, the resolution upon which the Bill to be introduced would be based, was as follows: " That this House having resolved that (taking the circumstances of the colony into consideration) the provincial form of Government in the North Island should be abolished; this House further declares its opinion that the provincial system of Government in the North Island should, as soon as possible, be followed by an inexpensive but more thorough form of local Government, under which the island should be divided into districts and sub-districts, endowed with substantial revenues, and the residents therein be enabled to take a larger and more direct share in the management of local affairs, and the expenditure of local revenues, than is at present the case." They would thus see that it would give the people of the colony at the various centres of population a greater local interest in their Government. He thought that the time had now arrived when a change should be made, but of course it was impossible to say what the shape of the proposed Bill would be. Its preparation was in very able hands, and perhaps it might take the shape of the Timaru and Gladstone Board of Works Bill. Had this Bill not been passed, there could be no doubt that the southern part of Canterbury would have been separated. Another reason in favor of the change was that now the communication between the provinces was speedier and shorter than in the early days. Let them look at the great Australian countries; there they saw the scheme of Government carried on without these provincial divisions and multiplicity of Governments. He thought that it would be far better to centralise the legislation as regarded the North Island provinces, the General Assembly doing the work of legislation now in the hands of the Provincial Governments. In Canterbury in 1872 an attempt was made to simplify Provincial institutions, and a set of resolutions were passed on the motion of the Hon George Buckley. They were as follows:—"1. That the Superintendent should be elected by the vote of an absolute majority of the Provincial Council,either from amongthe members or the electors of the province. 2. The Sup tUatendent so elected shall be a member of tuo Oouncil ex officio, and removable by vote of an absolute majority of the said Council. 3. That the powers of veto on the Ordinances of the Provincial Council now held by the Superintendent should be vested in his Excellency the Governor. 4. That there should be an Executive Council of four members of the Provincial Council, besides the Superintendent (who should be appointed and removable by the vote of the Provincial Oouncil). The Superintendent should be chairman of the Executive Council when present, and three should form a quorum. 5. That the Provincial Council should meet at least twice in each year. 6. That the General Government be requested to bring

in a Bill during the next session of the General Assembly, to authorise the alterations in the Constitution Act named in the above resolutions. 7. That the Speaker be requested to forward a copy of the above resolutions to the Colonial Secretary, his Honor the Superintendent, and the members of the General Assembly." They were forwarded to the Government, but did not meet with the approval of the hon member for the Avon—their Superintendent—and they did not come before the House. There was no doubt that provincial institutions were very costly, and he could really see no [reason why the surveys and other subjects of a similar kind should not be administered from a centre. There was no doubt that the surveys here were in a very bad state, and he believed that by being administered from a centre they would be improved ; and the same as regarded the police. So far as respected his individual vote, he would vote for a Bill framed on the resolution passed by the House during its last session, reserving to himself the right to vote for its introduction into other provinces if he saw that it would be to their advantage. Under any circumstances he would not vote for any Bill which would take the land revenue from Canterbury. Other provinces had instituted a sliding scale as regarded the price of their land, but they in Canterbury had adhered to the one price, and good results had followed therefrom. He was sorry to see the land revenue now falling off, but it could not be expected to keep up. He would look carefully into the scheme for the abolition of the provinces, and should strenuously oppose any attempt to take away the land fund of Canterbury. Though speaking there that evening as a member of the House of Representatives, he felt it only right as their member in the Provincial Council to embrace the opportunity to speak of matters nearer home. He felt that looking to the great amount of disease prevalent in the town, they had a fair claim to go to the Provincial Council and ask for assistance in the matter of drainage. [Hear, hear.] He was glad to see that the Borough Council were doing ail they could in the matter, and as the greater number of the inhabitants of the town were engaged on Government works the Government ought to make some provision for the preservation of the health of so large a body of people. He spoke only as an amateur, but he thought that it would be the best way to drain the town to intercept the drainage at the head of the gullies, and take it down the principal streets, having its exit on the other side of the breakwater. [Hear, hear.] He thought that the Borough Council had not done right in not going in with the Christchurch City Council to get the license fees, &c, for the municipalities. There would be no grant this year, and he for one should like to see larger endowments made for these municipalities. As regarded the water supply, that was in hand, and he hoped that this would be pushed on. With regard to what they heard outside as to railway mismanagement, they must recollect that they had only heard one side, and he had no doubt that next week the Secretary for Public Works would be able satisfactorily to explain matters ; if this explanation was not satisfactory, he should take care to make the Government aware of it. They must remember that the branch railways were only just started, and that the change from the bread to the narrow gauge, and vice versa, took a great deal of labor. He now begged to thank them for their kind and patient hearing, and he trusted that he should always discbarge his duty as their representative to their satisfaction. He should now be glad to consider any questions. [Cheers. J Mr Robinson strongly urged upon Mr Webb the necessity of a patent slip or graving dock being provided in Lyttelton. Mr Webb said that in 1873 he had brought the matter before the Council, when a resolution was passed, which, however, did not make it obligatory on the Government to carry it out. He might say that the Government had sent home for information on the subject, and he understood that Mr Elliot, who was at present in the province in respect to the Timaru harbour works, had reported on the matter of a patent slip in Lyttelton. He had examined the harbor, and he believed reported favorably respecting the establishment of the fame in Dampier's Bay. Res pecting a subject which now occupied their attention—viz., Sunday observance, the first question asked in the Assembly by the member for the Dunstan, Mr Shepherd, was to the effect whether the Postmaster General would make arrangements for the delivery of the letters on Sunday, and the reply of the Premier had been to the effect that the Government did not intend to do so, as the post offices in Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, and Adelaide were all strictly closed on Sundays, except so far as regarded the despatch of supplementary outward mails by the P. and 0. steamer.

Mr Robinson said he desired to move a resolution to the following effect ;—" That in the opinion of this meeting it is desirable that the Port of Lyttelton should be furnished with a patent slip capable of taking up a vessel of 1000 toos." In reply to Mr Saunders, Mr Webb said that he was of opinion that an alteration of the law as regarded the supply of liquor on Sundays was not necessary, and that he was not in favor of having the public-houses open for three or four hours on Sundays. Of course as regarded lodgers he was of opinion that they should be permitted to have their refreshment on Sunday as well as on other days, and there was no law to prevent that; Mr Robinson's resolution was seconded by Mr Grange, and carried unanimously.

Mr Hawkins then moved—" That the thanks of this meeting be given to Mr Webb for his explanation of the events of the last session."

This was also carried unanimously. Mr Webb moved a vote of thanks to the chairman, which was carried unanimously. The Mayor, in reply, said that he was glad to hear that Mr Webb was going to the Provincial Council to lay the case of their claim to assistance for drainage before it. There was a very good point in the fact that, though the number of their population had been largely increased, and their responsibility also, by the men in the Government employ, the people thus cast upon them were not ratepayers, being all lodgers, and thus they did not contribute one shilling to the revenue. He was glad to see that their members were going to bring this matter before the Council, and he felt sure that as on other occasions, Lyttolton would receive justice from the Provincial Council and Government. [Hear.J The meeting then adjourned.