MINISTERIAL STATEMENT ON IMMIGRATION.

Globe, Volume I, Issue 67, 18 August 1874, Page 4

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT ON IMMIGRATION.

We take the following report of Mr Yogel’s statement on immigration, from the New Zealand Times , of August 12th : Mr VOGEL obaeived that in referring the immigration estimates to the committee of supply ho intended to make a short statement on the subject of immigration. [Several bon members: ‘When?’’] He proposed to do it then, laying the estimates on the table forming a suitable opportunity of saying a few words upon immigration generally. [Hear.) Me did not propose to make any lengthened statement. In the papers that had been laid before the House, and placed in the bands of bon members at various times during the session, would be found so com- ■ plete a description of the history of the immigration proceedings, that it would be unnecessary for him to detain the House by any lengthened statement. The expenditure up to the 30th June last, brought to account within the colony—bon members must bear that in mind —amounted to £439,000 : so that out of the original million there remained the sum of £560,000 unexpended, The first-mentioned sum did not provide for expenditure on account of the immigrants now on the way out, but the completed expenditure, according to the receipts received in the colony. He was not going to make a statement of the general results of immigration, because the statistics placed in hon members’ band were much more satisfactory. The total results were as follows During the year 1873-4, that was from June 30th, 1873, to June 30tb, 1874, there arrived in the colony 17.513 souls ; whilst previously there had arrived in the colony, under the Immigration and Public Works Acts, 7503 souls, making a total up to the 301 b of June last, of 25.010 souls. At the same time there were on the 30th of June the very large number of 14,530 souls—considerably more than half the number introduced into the colony up to that date —on the water and on their way out to the colony. The correspondence laid on the table showed the entire history of the immigration proceedings during the past year. Hon members would observe that at the end of last session the Government sent home peremptory instructions to introduce a system of free immigration, the number of immigrants arriving in the colony not being adequate to our wants. The system was at once commenced, with the result to place at the command of New Zealand, within reasonable limits, almost any number the colony might desire should be procured. It was idle to deny that the Government were not pleased at the way in which the department of the Agent General was managed by him. The correspondence showed unmistakably that there were many points of difference between the Government and the AgentGeneral. But it was only right to say that they recognised that the Agent-General had worked most zealously, according to Ins own idea of what seemed to be required. Proceeding to notice the chief points about which there had been disagreement between the Agent-General and the Government, first, in respect to the selection of immigrants, notwithstanding all Ibat bad been said, and that complaints had been made of certain immigrants who had arrived in the colony, the Government were of opinion that on the whole the selection of immigrants who had arrived had been such that the colony should be well satisfied with it. [Hear.] They could not possibly bring out a large number of immigrants without some black sheep being amongst them. On the whole, we bad been very fortunate with the immigrants introduced during the past year. But they couid not help recognising that there was no sufficient security that such would be the ease iu future. They could not disguise from themselves that the machinery under which immigrants obtained passages to the colony was such that it might be used for obtaining passages for objectionable persons. They had beca fortunate that the effect, of an impulse being given to emigration to New Zealand had not been to reach that class which yielded very undesirable immigrants. The machinery now in operation was that emigrants were passed upon the production of a certificate in writing from persons who knew, or were supposed to know, the emigrants. It was liable to be abused, and in some few cases bad been abused, by persons obtaining fictitious signatures. Therefore, they could not fail to see this, that if after a time the impulse given to immigration to New Zealand, which was gradually becoming greater and greater as the success of those who came on! became known at home, should develop Pself to any wide extent, there was not sufficient precaution in the interests of (he colony in the machinery for selection now adopted. To put the ease more plainly, ho thought something more in the way of what some of the provinces had themselves adopted, in having agents whose special duty was to approve and select the immigrants, was desirable. His own opinion was that New Zealand could not only now get all the immigrants it required, but had a very large range of selection. The Government did not approve of the arrangements at home for placing the emigrants in depots, nor did they think the medical examination sufficient. They found some ships were allowed to proceed to sea with very defective appliances, and they very much deplored the small accommodation given to that class of immigrants which was more valuable than any oilier class, viz. those nominated in the Colony. As yet these were only a small proportion of those brought iulo the co mtry, but endeavors would be made to put that system to more beneficial use than it had been during the past year. Hon members might perhaps ask —why come down with complaints and statements respecting differences of opinion between the Government and one of its officers ] Did not the Government recognise this officer like other officers in the service and under the direction of the Government ? The Government did recognise that, but naturally if be was to be asked to explain be must make reference to the subject. The Government recognised the zeal and ability of the Agent-General, but they also recognised that it was desirable, and that it was the duty of the Government, to take care that its views were carried out. The House, if it so desired, should have the opportunity of expressing its opinion upon the subject. On Ore one hand, there was the Government, 16,000 miles away from the base of operations, and, on th' other hand, the Agent-General, who wrote from the spot, and had larger opportunities of knowing what was going on amund him, and between the directions the Government gave and the reasons the Agent-General alleged for not giving effect to them must hon members foirn their opinion o . The correspondence triumphantly slipwed

that the views of the Government could be carried out. But putting that on one side, the Government considered it to be their duty to require that their views should be carried out if those views received the sanction of the Assembly. On the estimates, when they came on for consideration, there would be opportunities for considering some of the points that had been raised. For example, the Government proposed to take a vote for a couple of medical officers, which would raise one question, and had put down a vote for agencies in the United Kingdom, which would raise another question. He would be sorry if he had left in members’ minds any impression that he had intended to say anything unfavorable to the AgentGeneral ; ' on the contrary, praise was duo to him for his zeal and vigor, and for the great amount of work he got through. His department was unquestionably a large one, and he (Mr Vogel) believed he suffered very much from want of proper officers to assist him. To some extent the Agent-General might be blamed for that, because he was not willing to take the officers sent home to him from the colony, and who might have been of advantage to him. The department had grown to avery great size, and the difficulties of organising it had very much fallen to the Agent-General, and in managing the financial operations the Agent-General had co-operated ably and zealously with the Crown Agents. He wished hon members to understand that he was by no means inclined to have it supposed that the Government totally disapproved of the proceedings of the Agent-General ; on the contrary, ’they felt that in many respects he was most able to fill the position ho hold. With respect to the proceedings of next year, he might say that the Government did not feel themselves ableto state what numberof immigrants they considered would be absorbed if introduced during the year. He had a feeling of doubt as to the extent it would be desirable to continue the scale of immigration. The power of the colony to absorb immigrants had lately been very hardly tested Finding as they did that by limiting the emigrants’ departure from England to certain months—or rather their arrival in the colony to certain mouths —of the year, excluding the winter mouths from the time of arrival they discouraged immigration very materially at just the season when it was most likely to bo vigorous, they withdrew from the'Agent-General restrictions previously placed upon him, and allowed him to continue immigration all the year round. The consequence had been, as he had already stated, that the absorbing capacity of the colony had been severely tested ; that large numbers of our immigrants had arrived at the very time of the year that was most unsuitable for obtaining them employment ; but it was really remarkable how the colony had shown itself able to absorb the immense number that had sometimes arrived within a few days of each other. As to whether or not immigration should be kept up on the same scale, he was not going to express any positive opinion ; his own idea was that it should be modified to some extent. At any rate it should be be left lo the discretion of the Government to regulate it as they fouud necessary, A great deal of the power of the colony to absorb immigrants would depend on the manner in which they were able to introduce the immigrants into the interior. He was glad to say it had been done with the happiest results during the past year. Immigrants had been introduced into the interior in various parts of the country by means of the establishment of depots in country districts and by the local agencies that were employed. He did not wish to bo egotistical or to take credit to himself, hut he could not refrain from saying that it appeared to him there could hardly be any question that the local management of immigration had been on the whole exceedingly successful. Especially in the provinces of Otago and Canterbury, the manner in which the immigrants had been seen to and sent to various parts of the country was calculated to excite the warmest feelings of admiration. He acknowledged the great assistance he had received from the Superintendents of those provinces, and without wishing to be invidious, could not help making special mention of his indebtedness to the Superintendent of Canterbury, who had not only given an ordinary amount of official assistance, but had personally devoted himself to the subject with zeal and ability beyond any expression of praise he (Mr Vogel) could possibly utter. He was also indebted to him for the large amount of attention he had given to immigration matters during the past year, which had enabled him (.Mr Vogel) on many occasions to derive from him much useful assistance by way of advice. He saw it stated in a newspaper that he (Mr Vogel) had borrowed the system of free immigration from Canterbury. That was not altogether the case. The question was a disputed one in Canterbury, the people there, as he/uiderstond, being in favor of limiting the system to immigrants nominated in the colony. But the subject had been very much discussed, and had been for some time under the consideration of the Colonial Government. But upon another very important matter he felt bound to say that the Government derived not only much assistance, but to some extent the original conception, from an hon member of the House. He alluded lo the establishment. uf depots in country districts. The Inn gentleman referred lo most forcibly drew 1 his (Mr Vogel’s) attention to the fact that the introduction of a large number of immigrants would materially depend upon the manner in which they were distributed through the countiy districts, and urged that it was desirable the Government should incur considerable expense in building depots in suitable places, with the view of promoting that distribution. The Government had carried that plan out on a large scale in the estimates now before the House, Upon the manner in which they were able to locate the immigrants would, in bis opinion, depend the power of the colony to absorb a larger or smaller number of people ; and the Government bad taken liberal estimates for the purpose. They had also taken votes not so mu .'h for the purpose of offering employment to immigrants as of opening up roads, and of locating them in places that otherwise would not be suitable for settlement. It was because the Government could not guage the extent of the success which might attend their efforts to locale immigrants throughout different parts of the country, that they could not toil positively what would be the absorbing power o f the colony in that respect. He would now say a few words upon immigration generally. They had taken for the location and distribution of immigrants, the sum of £270,000, instead of £250,000 last year; but hon members would recollect that a large

portion of that sum would be almost immediately absorbed on account of the large number of immigrants now on the water. They bad put down, in addition to the items to which he referred, such as medical officers and six months agencies in the United Kingdom, two classes of votes to which he directed special attention. One class of votes was for the establishment of depots at the cost of the colony, and the property in which would remain in the colony. The other class was advances to provinces for the purposes of locating settlers, and the construction of cottages upon terms which were described in the correspondence, and which involved repayment of the advances by the Provincial Governments ’over a ‘period of four years. In making these various votes the Government had been guided by the consideration of the particular circumstances of each province for which they were making provision. They had taken each province upon its merits and dealt with it accordingly as they thought it desirable. For example, Canterbury, with its immense surplus lying comparatively idle in the bank, had no object in borrowing £SOOO at 5 per cent; and when this question came before the Superintendent to construct cottages under advances from the General Government, to be repaid with interest in three or four years, he naturally felt there was no advantage to him in adopting such a proposal, but there were other provinces that had shown themselves very inclined to adopt that principle, and where that had been the case provision was made accordingly. In some provinces the construction of depots had already gone on to a considerable extent, but in others everything remained to be done. He had further to state, in reference to the items generally, that some of them represented uncompleted works, and to some extent they were in the nature of covering existing liabilities, whilst in other cases they vr me wholly for new works. In the Province of Auckland they proposed for country depots, construction, rent, and management £BOOO ; and for advances for works in connection with location of settlers, including advance for cottages, £9OOO. Taranaki was dealt with upon its own merits. Taranaki and Auckland had received a very small proportionate share of the benefits of immigration when it was considered for how large an amount they were responsible in proportion to their revenue. In Taranaki for depots and advances for works in connection with location of settlers, including advances for cottages, £20,000. With this money they proposed to cut roads through the rich bush lands of the province, and to make the land available for sale. There is no doubt the value of this land would immensely enhanced, and the advance would be made upon terms that would give to the colony a security over the laud. In Hawke’s Bay, for country depots, construction, rent, and management, £2OOO ; and for advances for works in connection with location of settlers, including advances of cottages, £9OOO. Wellington was a province dealt with in a manner which he thought would meet the approval of the committee, although at first sight it might seem that the Government put down a very large sum, but hon members would recollect that during the recess it was proposed to advance, for purposes of settlement, and some other purposes, the sura of £66,000 upon the security of blocks of land to be made available for purposes of settlement. The Provincial Council has passed an appropriation against the proposed amount of £66,000, but looking over that appropriation it was clear that £6OOO of the amount might be properly considered as part of what was to be called promotion of settlement. Therefore they had no right to charge that £6OOO to the loan, but to charge it as an advance from consolidated revenue. The £60,000 would be paid in advance on laud for public works in connection with settlement, on terms provided by the Provincial Public Works Advances Act, 1874. This Bill provided for all the advances to provinces as intimated to the House when the financial statement was made. It dealt with all the advances excepting two, which would find their places in the Immigration and Public Works and Railways Acts, the latter being one which will deal with the proposed purchase of the Otago railways ; while the Immigration and Public Works Act would deal with mining works in the Province of Auckland. Besides the £60,000 to Wellington, there would be advances for cottages £3OOO. Under the head of Nelson, there was an item of £3OOO for the construction of depots, &e, and £BOOO for advances in connection with the location of settlers including advances for cottages. They did not put down a large sum for Nelson under that head, because a measure was to be brought down to give the Province a loan of £50,000. He thought the House would agree with him that it was best to call a spade a spade; and whoa making advances, no matter what peculiar form they might assume, that the advances should be recognised as such whether they came down in one Bill or another, and looked upon as so ranch money, which the colony lent or gave its credit to allow the loan being obtained. To Marlborough they proposed to make a loan of £14,000, for advances for works in connection with the location of settlers ; and £2OOO for opening up roads in certain districts, where it was represented to the Government very valuable timber might be made available for use. The expenditure would bo subject to the approval of the Minister of Public Works, and the work would go on under his surrcillanct t, and upon such terms as might be agreed upon between the Superintendent and the Minister of Works. In Westland they proposed £2OOO for depots, and £12,000 for advances for works in connection with the location of settlers, The primary object of this £12,000 was to enable the Government of Westland to extend the settlement of the province to its southern boundary and to establish a settlement in the neighborhood of Jackson’s Bay. For Canterbury there was no object for putting down an advance, because the province did not require it. £BOOO was put down for depots, &c. For Otago, which had largely availed itself of colonial funds, and bad rendered valuable assistance in constructing cottages in terms of his letter of November last, he put down £IO,OOO for advances to the province for the erection of cottages and for works in connection with the location of settlers ; and £6OOO for depots, &c. He might say, generally, wiih respect to the Estimates, that they had been framed with a view of meeting the circumstances of the various provinces and the greatest amount of care been taken with them. He would be happy to give any further explanations when considering the estimates, or at any other time the House might consider suitable. He concluded by moving that the estimales should be considered in Committee of Supply, which was agreed to.