ABOLITION OF NORTH ISLAND PROVINCES.

Globe, Volume I, Issue 66, 17 August 1874, Page 3

ABOLITION OF NORTH ISLAND PROVINCES.

[From the New Zealand Times, August 14th.] Mr Vogel, on rising to propose the resolutions standing in his name, was received with applause. He said he approached the the subject of the resolutions under a sense of the very large responsibility and the disadvantage under which he labored in having to prepare a speech upon such an important occasion in the very short time at his disposal, as hon members must be aware of the large amount of business he had to attend to in the House, and to the necessary government outside the House. [Hear.] He might at once state that the action the Government were now taking had been precipitated by the course the debate on the Forests Bill took. Ho might at once deal with the facts that came to light during that discussion—that there wss a large opposition to carrying out that great measure, solely, so far as he could understand, on the ground that an attempt was made to interfere with the disposal of the lands by the provinces for provincial purposes. That fact made a very strong impression on the minds of the Government. Moreover, the figures which then came out —showing the enormous expenditure in this Island through funds cither directly expended by the Colonial Government or provided by the Colonial Government, and the small proportion of that expenditure out of funds of a purely Provincial nature, including land revenue—also created a strong impression in the minds of the Government. There was another feeling which induced the action now being taken, and that was a feeling of doubt whether, notwithstanding the great trouble the Government had taken upon the subject—they were even about to succeed in making proposals to the House that would sufficiently enable the Provinces in this Island to carry on their duties satisfactorily during the present year ; and a stronger reason was not only the doubt that they had made sufficient provision for the present year, but the question how provision was to be made for the following year. The whole of the recess was more or less occupied with financial negotiations with the provinces, with a view to meeting their requirements—some of a pressing nature, and some merely •in the nature of a desire to expend money—with trying to make arrangements with the provinces to enable them to come down with the least possible demands for extraneous assistance. To put the matter plainly, the Colonial Treasurer had not only to finance for the colony, but was asked to finance for all these provinces. [Hear.] For a long while there had been a conviction in his mind, as there must have been in the minds of all intelligent people, that an organic change in the system of Government in this Island was most imperatively demanded. He confessed his own views were until somewhat lately rather in the direction of substituting for several provinces one province—of consolidating them into one province. He was quite sure that that was consistent with carrying on with advantage the business of the country ; and was quite certain there must be either one province or no provinces at all. He did not wish to forestall those hon gentlemen who would take pleasure in taunting him with the various opinions he had previously held on the subject. He owed it to himself to state exactly what course he had taken. Ever since he had taken part in public affairs in New Zealand he had seen that some large changes were necessary in the system of Government that obtained in the two islands. He was at one time a strong supporter of the principle of separation of the two islands into two colonies. Whatever might be said in favor of that plan, the proceedings of the past four years had totally made it in his opinion—and very few persons would be found to

advocate it —impossible to carry out without very great difficulties and long negotiations He was also at one time strongly in favor of consolidation of the provinces. Redid not recall the opinions he had previously expressed. It seemed to him that in the larger provinces where there was proper machinery for Gov rnment available there would be greater advantages for carrying on the public business. He mentioned the amalgamation of Southland with Otago as a very wise measure ; and he also thought it would be better if there was only one province in the island than that there should be four provinces. But the great difficulty in the way of making one province would be the jealousy the other provinces would feel upon the question of the seat of Government, and the jealousy that would be felt on all questions and conditions of amalgamation. He held that the desirability of one province in this island was very much modified by the conditions which were apparent, that in reality the General Government did to a great extent carry on the government of this island, that its finance had virtually to be provided by the colony, and that the work of settlement throughout the island was carried on by the colony. At present provincial divisions were rather a hindrance and a disturbance than an assistance. [Hear.] The last few years had been a series of expedients and devices to carry on the provinces in such a manner as would enable the General Government to gain their consent to carrying on the policy of Public Works and Immigration. In one shape or another they were almost obliged to come down with inducements to the provinces, in order to induce them to allow the General Government to carry on their great policy, so essential to the welfare of the colony. The provinces had either thrown their weight against the Public Works and Immigration policy, or had lent it in the direction of the policy upon the condition of providing means, the responsibility and trouble of which had fallen upon the General Government. There might be a few more papers to sign if the General Government had the direct control, but no more care, trouble, or anxiety would be required. He was sick and tired of it, and would much rather that they came to a distinct understanding upon the whole question now, and know whether (he power and responsibility should rest on the same shoulders or not. Another circumstance that had caused the attention of the Government to be; given to this matter was the wide-spread feeling in the House that this exceptional assistance —not to use the word sop—was not desirable to be continued ; and the widespread feeling that it was desirable to deal with the question in a comprehensive statesmanlike manner. The member for Parnell had specially taken very great interest in the subject, and contemplated bringing down resolutions upon it. He was not going to say that he behoved these resolutions would have been carried, because he believed the majority of lion members thought so large a question should be brought down by the Government. (Hear.) No doubt the action the hon member for Parnell took bad served to bring out and illustrate the general opinion- on the subject held by hon members. He was not quite sure that there was not a desire amongst a considerable number, if not the majority of those who would support the resolutions, that they should bo dealt with during the present year. It was not due to the action of the supporters of the Government, but to the moderation of the Government itself, that instead of bringing down resolutions on the subject, lie was now asking for leave to introduce i Bill. It might be recollected that since 18(19 the colony had virtually accepted the responsibility of settling the North Island. Before the Government of which the hon member for Rangitikei was head, took office, there was a profound disinclination to expend money on this island. Since 18(59 a different course had been pursued. In that year the small amount of £BO,OOO was authorised, and after that £400,000 additional was authorised for the construction of roads. [Since that, in one way or another, there had been a very large expenditure, either from the colonial revenue or by means obtained by the credit of the colony. He reiterated the figures he used the other evening. During the five years ended June 80tb, 1874, there had been spent in the North Island, either by the colony or out of moneys provided by the colony no less a sum than £3,389,000. Daring the three years ended June 30th last there was spent in this island cither by the colony dr by means provided by the General Government, the sum of £2,387,000 ; while during the same three years there was spent from purely local revenue, includingland, £448,000. On the one band the colony had expended or found £2,387,000, aud the provinces £448,000. These figures must, he thought, conclusively arouse in the minds of members the idea that the power of the purse—the power of expenditure and the responsibility to the House, which was responsible to the taxpayers of the colony, should rest with the same person. They were not justified in delegating so much power in a manner over which it was impossible they could have any control. Another point was this ; the peculiar circumstances of the island, and especially the Native population that inhabited it, made the provincial divisions inconvenient. Instead of aiding the settlement of Native affairs, provincial divisions had an opposite effect. He recollected some years ago, the member for Eangitikei, as leader of a great party in the House, came ■down with proposals by which Superintendents would have been made agents for the General Government in the matter of most colonial affairs, and specially in the management, to an extent, of Native affairs. He was not prepared to say that that arrangement might not at that time have been well carried on ; ho believed it could. He believed anything would have been found better than the state of affairs which prevailed. With the stagnation then existing, anything was desirable to give an impulse to the colonising spirit which, at the time, was well nigh deadened in this island, and to a groat extent in the colony. He recollected, as a member of a Provincial Government, year after year vainly endeavoring to obtain the General Government to construct upon any terms or conditions the railway from Dunedin to thcClutha. flleai.j The hon member for Port Chalmers—he did not know whether he should make a convert of pim—would hear him out in saying that. [Mr Macandrew : Hear.] When ho heard the other night the statement made of what had been done by an hon gentleman in the House when he was Colonial Treasurer, and compared with that, his (Mr Vogel’s) action at the time, ho asked the House to recollect the widely * different position at that time, when Provincial Governments- were eager to perform the colony’s work, aud the

General Government set its face against anything like public works, and the condition of the present, when the General Government had undertaken works upon an enormous scale and magnitude which few hon gentlemen four years ago could have dreamed of ; and the Provincial Governments in the North Island at any rate only able to perform their part of the work by getting the assistance of the colony to do it. Was it desirable this should continue, was one of the questions the resolutions asked. It was only necessary to look at the map to see the lines that represented the work the General Government did in this island in scarcely more than four years, and the lines that represented provincial work for perhaps a quarter of a century previously, and to see what the colony was doing as compared with the provinces. They were now running at colonial expense a coach from Wellington to New Plymouth, and a coach from Wellington by way of Napier to Taranaki. The roads over which the coaches passed were mainly and at very great expense constructed by the colony. The moment one went into the interior of the island he found the provincial divisions were rather a hindrance than assistance to the settlement of the interior. The provinces declined to take over or even maintain the roads already made by the colony at such large expense. The fact was that provincial divisions in the North Island had no proper meaning : they were not suited politically or geographically, aud their only object was the distribution of personal power, and to give such persons authority over such and such territory. The divisions might just as well have been made without any knowledge of the circumstances of the colony as they were at present. Distinct provincial boundaries might have been suitable in times past, hut were wholly unsuitable to the present. Districts had grown up independent of provincial boundaries which retarded, instead of promoting, the work of settlement. He had said nothing in the way of fault-finding with the governments themselves, nor did he desire to do so. He believed gentlemen more zealous or desirous of promoting, according to their own opinions, the interests of the provinces, it would be impossible to find ; and in some of the provinces it would be impossible to find men more suitable to the task of promoting the work of settlement than the members of Provincial Councils. They themselves were fettered by conditions which prevented them being able to carry on the work of sattlement, on account of the provincial divisions which exist. He hoped he would be perfectly understood, that he should be sorry to say one word to allow hon gentlemen to think that he was making any personal complaint. He saw around him gentlemen for whom he had the most profound respect, not only for them personally, but for their ability. He knew it was not their fault; he was not complaining of that, but only of the system. One of the greatest objections to the present system was in its financial aspect. From year to year they had to come down with these expedients and devices to keep up the provincial system, and to purchase permission to continue public works and immigration throughout the colony. It was a grotesque employment of the revenues of the colony. They had undertaken to construct the roads in the North Island, of which he had spoken, and paid for them out of Consolidated Revenue, or out of loans charged against the Consolidated Revenue. There were railways and immigration, and subsidies to road boards, all charged to the Consolidated Revenue, and to any increasing extent. Was there to be no limit ? Because the circumstances of the colony threw upon the ordinary revenue all these charges, ought they forget that under different arrangements they might be continued as changes on the Land Fund. He would not at all mince matters. If the General Government took in hand the matter of settling the North Island, one of the changes of the future, after a certain and reasonable time, was that the land fund shall be made applicable for purposes of that kind. He was content to let by-gones be by-goncs, to pay off to the end the provision they had already made for three years’ subsidy to the Road Boards, to take the trunk system of railways, to carry out the provision made for immigration—one and a half millions. He was prepared to go on with all that; but was there to be no end ? He thought there should be. He went to the fullest possible extent in favor of localising the land revenue. He pave a fiat aud absolute denial to the assertion that the Government had any idea of coming upon the land revenue of the South Island with the view of carrying on the policy. He read a return of the expenditure in this island to show what his ideas were as to the classification of local revenue in future in that island, i.e . services that should be charged to the various revenues. The return was obtained from the actual returns of the provincial auditors of the revenues and expenditure for 1873. He had no other returns available, and even taking the appropriations was of little value, as some provinces were in the habit of appropriating to a greater extent than they were able to expend. The actual expenditure included liabilities paid during the year ou account of 1872. The figures showed the expenditure for harbor department, hospitals, lunatic asylum, charitable aid, gaols, police, education. The total expenditure by the provinces in this island amounted to £58,645 during 1873. Deducting £71,000 arising from various services, there was a net cost for the services referred to of £51.345. The ordinary revenue of the provinces, under licenses, &c.—strictly local revenue—was £33,000. The permanent debt of the provinces was £1,100,000. The land revenue during the year amounted to £IIB,OOO. the gold revenue to £14,000, the ordinary revenue, to £38,000 ; public works, tolls, &c., to £33,000; while the capitation and special allowances for 1873-4 was £BB,OOO ; the annual charge on the public debt, £6900 ; other revenue, £230.000 ; goldfields revenue, £II,OOO ; surveys, £9OOO ; public works, £82,000 ; Executive expenditure, £10,900 ; Legislative expenditure, £2900 ; miscellaneous, £13,000. The first idea that struck him when he read those figures was, what did they give the capitation allowance for? Was it in order to enable the provinces to carry on certain services. He was aware that owing to a practice that had grown up, this capitation allowance went to pay the annual interest upon the debt. It was a favorite plan with Provincial Treasurers, to go down to the Provincial Councils ami say they had only received two or three thousand pounds this year. Th:se payments should not cover interest and sinking fund on the provincial debt. It would he interesting to look at the proportion the consolidated aliowance bore to the total expenditure upon those services by the provinces. He could

not give the exact figures, because in the one case they were made up for the financial year which ended with June, and the other for the calendar year. But there was no difference, because the period was for twelve months in either case. He found that the tatal expenditure for the North Island services to which he had alluded was £58,n00, and the nett cost, after deducting special revenues received, was £51,000, while the capitation allowances to the same province was £BB,OOO. This was to his mind a most significant factsignificant of what a different distribution of the expenditure might lead to. Take the appropriations of the present year in this island, which of course were much larger than what was actually expended. The total appropriations for the same services amounted to £89,000, whilst they were proposing to give capitation allowances this year of £93,000. He asked himself if the Colony was to pay the whole cost of these services, should there not be a margin ? He left out the ordinary revenue, amounting to £33,000. and had simply taken the expenditure on those services which the capitation allowance paid. There was a miscellaneous expenditure last year amounting to £13,000 which was very difficult to classify, but he would give them the whole benefit of that. Added to the expenditure of £51,000 there was a total expenditure of against £BB,OOO from the Consolidated Revenue. He came to the question whether the services were satisfactory, and asked the Colony whether it was not their duty to look upon certain services as necessary for the well being of the people of the Colony, and their duty to insist on their being carried out with advantage, and quite apart from the question of provincial divisions. With respect to the proposal for the plan which would follow upon these resolutions, hon members would understand that he had not a Bill in his hand. He was only taking general principles, but they must also understand that those principles could not be given effect to all at once. They must do it gradually. The division that should be made of the revenue would be this, There should be a division of what he would call purely local revenue, such as was obtained from licenses, and means of that kind, and which amounted last year to £33,000. There should be a division of goldfields revenue, which should be specially applicable to the purposes of the goldfields. There should be a division of land revenue ; and a division of revenue which was paid by the colony. That last revenue he held should be applicable to the services to which he had referred, less some amount which should be obtained locally in the shape of revenue. For example, if they set on a proper footing local Government throughout this island, after a time at any rate, some portion of the cost of maintaining police, and of the Educational Department, should be borne by these divisions. The land revenues should be first applicable to the interest on the cost of works constructed from money borrowed on their security ; the balance should be ap' plicable to small local works, and partly to main arterial works. He was not coming down with a scheme of distribution now, as it was not a suitable time. Local revenue should be localised among the various self-governing districts. The land revenue should be employed on public works which pay interest, and upon public works which include partly small local works, and partly main arterial works of a large character, such, for example, as the harbour works at Taranaki, because the circumstances of this island were such that there should be a harbour there, if they could do it within any reasonable amount of expenditure. On the West Coast, there was too long a stretch between Waitemata and Wellington to do without harbors if these could be got at anything like a reasonable expenditure. With respect to capitation allowance for ,‘local services, he believed there should bo a plan as between the two islands that should leave no cause for discontent; and whatever amount was paid in this island out of revenue for the maintenance of services in this island, a proportionate amount should be paid for similar services in the Middle Island. If members will study these figures they could not fail to come to the conclusion that if they realised with reasonable diligence and not too hastily, the landed estate of this island would supply plentyof meansforcarrying on the local works which he had already described, and the other services to which he had referred would be payable by special allowance made by the colony. The local revenue would be at the disposal of the local governing bodies. It was not part of the intention of the Government to impound the land revenue for any past expenditure, or expenditure to be authorised for completing the system of trunk railways in both Islands. Members might ask what was meant by local Government, When we alter the system of Provincial Government we must be alive to the fact of the extent to which the people are willing to do so. It was desirable that the people should exercise local control, and it would be their object to introduce such a system as would give the largest possible amount of self-government compatible with carrying out the conditions and provisions which the Assembly required. He was not going to express a positive opinion, but so far he was prepared to say that some such plan as that which they had in the district of Timaru might have been adopted with advantage in various well-defined districts. He need scarcely say how desirable it was that there should be one uniform land law. The other branch of the Legislature had called upon the Government to bring down a provision for legislation on the subject of confiscated lands, and it would be just as easy to bring down a comprehensive land measure to put an end to the very anomalous position in which the land question at present stood. It might not be unsatisfactory to the House to know how it was proposed to deal with the existing Superintendents, [Laughter.] The opinion of the Government was that provision to the end of their term should be made for the various provinces, with the exception of one, in which they proposed to recognise a life-long service to the colony. They proposed to make life-long provision for the Superintendent of Auckland. With respect to Provincial Executives, the Government did not think that any compensation cases was called for in their cases. The Government would take over the obligations of provinces, and therefore the provincial officers would remain on the same footing as other officers of the General Government. The seat of Government would be Wellington. Any departure from the compact of 1855 he would regard simply as dishonest. They would give to the Middle Island any security it required to have it clearly understood that the land revenues of the Middle Island should be solely appropriated to the Middle Island, and that of the

various provinces to those provinces. He was satisfied that the North Island, properly managed, had resources in land and natural wealth, which would make it independent of the Middle Island. He denied most emphatically what had been announced in the lobbies, that the resolutions meant the ultimate taking over of the Middle Island land fund. It was possible that the success of a new form of government in the North Island, which would then be running a race with the great provinces of the Middle Island in many local matters, might induce the people in those provinces to enquire whether their system of government might not be very much improved. There was no doubt the Hupcrintendental form of government would be put upon its trial, and changes might result from it. The people did not care for persons or forms, but desired good government. Describing the machinery of the government he proposed, the hon gentleman said it would be necessary to have a Resident Minister in Auckland, and a Government Agent in Taranaki and Hawke’s Bay. In Wellington, he thought the General Government could very well manage affairs without an officer. [Laughter.] Mr Yogel concluded by remarking that he wished to say a few words upon an almost personal question. Ho had already referred to what might be said about his having changed his opinions. There were two species of political tergiversation : one which arose conviction : the other, Macbeth-like, from the whisperings of ambition : the one purely of a public-spirited nature, and the other of a private and personal nature. No hon member would suppose that personal ambition, or any personal object, animated him in tins matter. He had every reason a man could possibly have to remain quiet and not to have taken the matter up. The Government had also a majority in the House. The session was nearly over, and members were inclined to follow the lead of the Government. No member could for a moment suppose that it was brought down from any other view than a strong conviction that the change the Government proposed was rendered necessary by the circumstances of the country. The course now taken would give him much personal pain, and would embroil him in a struggle which would be liable to end in the rupture of political alliances which had lasted for many years. The question should be approached in an open manner, and not in an undermining, sapping, or concealed way. If the result should be that the House and the country should be averse to the proposed change, it would be a pleasure to the Ministry to retire from office with the knowledge that they had not failed to perform what they considered to be their duty to. the country. He moved the resolution standing in his name. [Great applause.] Mr U’Rorke said that, before the debate proceeded further, he desired to make a personal explanation. In the remarks he was about to make, he would make no reference to the speech which had just been delivered, and which had been apparently received with a considerable amount of enthusiasm. He wished to state that he was no party, and could be no party, to the proposal that had been made. [Opposition cheers ] He could not do such violence to his convictions as to vote for if, for he felt sure the scheme could not be carried out, and that the seuse of the country would revolt against it. Were he to vote for it, he would deserve to be branded as a base political traitor. Although he was aware that a great name might be found for political apostacy, he was not disposed to shelter himself under it. If he obtained admission to that Parliament on certain principles, he did not feel at liberty to fling those principles to the wind for the sake of office, or to suit his own caprice. If such an occurrence took place with him, he would be bound to return to his constituents, who put him in that position, and would trust and abide by their decision. During the fourteen years he had been a member of the House he had unswervingly adhered to the principles of the Constitution Act. He thought the principles of that Act were eminently framed to favor the colony. For that Act they were very much indebted to that distinguished Governor, Sir George Grey. To his mind, every invasion and every alteration upon that Act had been prejudicial, especially to the province of Auckland, and he thought he might say to the North Island. That Act did not give ua a monopoly of political life in auy one portion of the colony, but established in several parts of the colony nurseries of political thought. It could not be expected that, in the twinkling of an eye, he was going to deny the tenor of his previous political life. His position on that bench was not of his own seeking ; he would never have occupied it if he had thought his lion friend had had in his copious armoury a dagger of perfidy with which to stab the provinces. [Opposition cheers.] That was the general ground on which he opposed the proposal, but as a member for the province of Auckland he had special grounds. The resolutions, to his mind, compressed into the smallest space possible every effort that could be made to offend the province. Political life would cease there : political life would necessarily be leadened and deadened in the province of Auckland, by a central power 100 miles distant. He believed also that the province would be steeped in poverty if she were held to the foolish bargain made by the provinces of the North Island by the compactof 1850. Why was it necessary to Haunt in their faces the fact that she had been uncrowned by having the seat of Government removed ? In making these remarks, he wished the House to understand that he was actuated by no personal motives against • the gentlemen sitting around him. From them he had always received the utmost consideration. He himself believed that when the passion of the hour passed away, they would despise him, as he would despise himself, if he had foregone t he principles that he had hitherto avowed. He left them to their consciences in this matter. He thought the leader of the House could not sec what would be the cud of the voyage on which he had entered. He had to state that lie retired from the Ministry. He had taken this course without being instigated thereto by any living soul. It was purely spontaneous. The Premier would bear him out when he stated that, when it was announced that the measure was to bo pressed, he could no longer sec bis way to be a member of the Ministry. He stated so explicitly, and distinctly. He had no desire to be considered a martyr in the matter, but he most positively shrank from having the brand of political treachery attached to his name. [Prolonged opposition cheers.] The Premier supposed ho owed the House an apology for the fact that a member of the Government of which he was t he head, should have made the exhibition which had just been made. [Hear, and cries of “Chair 1

and “ No.”] Anythin" so exceptional had never been heard of before.

Mr Frrz Herbert —I rise to a point of order, Mr Speaker. The bon member has already spoken. It is contrary to the rules of the House, unless with the consent of the House, that he should be permitted to make such an address. The Speaker —The Hon the Premier is in perfect order in making an explanation which is persona! to himself, but he would not be in order in criticising the speech of the hon member for Onehunga.

Mr FITZ HERBERT was not objecting to that, but was objecting to the hon member at the head of the Government going further by attacking a member of that House. The Speaker— l did not hear any attack. [Cries of “ Oh 1 ”]

Mr Vogel thought the honor and dignity of the House required an explanation of a statement made in such a way He did not wish to discourage any political capital being made out of the circumstance Mr Fitzherbert —I again rise to object to the hon member making a second speech, and call upon you. Mr Speaker, to interfere. The Speaker— So far _as the Hon the Premier has proceeded, he is quite in order. Mr Vogel said that when a member of Government got up and stated what had just been said, his (Mr Vogel’s) own veracity and that of his colleagues were at stake, as was the reputation of the House, What would bo the reputation of the House if things of that kind were passed without explanation ? He would be very sorry to have to go into Cabinet matters, because they were matters that were sacred from prying eyes. But he believed the hon gentleman was his colleague at present. [Laughter and applause.] In Cabinet — The Speaker called the hon member to order. He did not think it proper, or in accordance with parliamentary practice, that matters discussed in Cabinet should be brought up for discussion in the House. [Hear.] The hon member could not go beyond the limit of a personal explanation. Mr VOGEL observed that he had not interrupted the hon member, and therefore should have the same indulgence granted to him. He would put the matter in this way the hon gentleman had not signified to him, as head of the Government, nor ito any of his colleagues, that he intended to retire from the Government, or to take the course he had jnst taken, It was wholly and entirely a surprise to him. He thought that whatever opposition he might have felt to the resolutions would have been urged, and that it was usual for members of a Government to fall in with the proposals adopted by the Government as a whole, so long as he did not retire from the Cabinet. He (Mr Vogel) was responsible for the Government, and stated that the hon gentleman had not yet retired from the Government, yet he had thought right, at the very last moment as it were, to make the speech he did without signifying his intention to do so, or allowing it to be supposed in the remotest manner by any of his colleagues that such was either the case [Cries of “ Chair.] The Speaker ruled that the hon member was entirely in order, Mr Vogel wished to make this plain : that a head of a Government would always be placed in a most unfair and ambiguous position if it was at all the right of members of a Government to remain with their colleagues, and yet take the course just taken by the hon member. Personally, he said it would be a serious matter of regret to lose the very assiduous, earnest, and zealous assistance the hon gentleman had constantly and satisfactorily given to the Government. At the same time he hoped the Government would be able to survive the shock, and that, notwithstanding the care and attention he had given the departmental work, it would still be able to bo carried on. Mr Reeves gave it as his deliberate opinion, which he believed was the opinion of the majority of the House, and he felt sure that the people of the colony would also bo of that opinion, that it might be competent for this Parliament to deal with the question, but that it would be vei’y unwise and injudicious to do so, and that it should at once be relegated to their constituencies. There could be no possible objection to the adjournment of the debate for a few hours [cries of “ Monday ”]— and he would move an adjournment until Monday, The debate was then adjourned until Monday at 2.30 p.m.