THE STATE FOREST BILL.

Globe, Volume I, Issue 61, 10 August 1874, Page 4

THE STATE FOREST BILL.

We take the following report of the debate on the motion for going into committee on this Bill from the “ New Zealand Times” of August Bth : Mr Rolleston observed that the amendments proposed in the Bill had been so recently circulated, the committal should be postponed until another day. Mr Vogel replied the changes were very simple ; they merely asked the House to pledge itself to taking land at a future time, and meanwhile left it to the Superintendents and Provincial Councils to set aside land for the objects proposed by the Bill. Mr Rolleston was convinced that the provinces would be perfectly prepared to meet the Premier, and would do what would be for the advantage of the people in the way of setting apart lands necessary for the purpose. He had no desire to throw any impediment in the way of what he held to be an exceedingly good object—the conservation of provinces. [Loud laughter.] The lapse was not an unnatural one. He again urged that some little delay should be allowed for consideration of the proposed amendments. Mr Tribe considered the Bill unnecessary, and the only effect would be to create a new and costly department. Mr Brandon, to test the feeling of the committee, moved the adjournment of the committee. Mr T. B. Gillies did not see why there should be any delay in going on with the Bill. There was nothing in it—[laughter] except the authority to spend a little money —£IO,OJO a year, and to appoint three conservators of forests. They should not bother much about such a trifle. Mr Buckland said that the time was not far distant when £IO,OOO a year would not bo considered a trifle. Unless economy was pursued there would be some difficulty in carrying on the ordinary affairs of the country. For his part, he should be glad to see the Bill thrown out. He also urged postponement. Mr Vogel thanked the member for Avon for his advice, but it was very like what that hon member gave when he did not heartily support a Bill. The amendments were so simple that they could not be misunderstood. They committed the Assembly most unequivocally to the establishment of State forests, to provide all the machinery, gave opportunity to the provinces to set apart land for the purpose of endowments for State forests, and pledged the House to take land in the future if the provinces did not give it for this purpose. The proposal to set aside a small part of the lands of the colony for the purpose of State forests would be heartily responded to from one end of the colony to the other. The question whether the machinery should be in the hands of the Provincial or General Government would sink into insignificance before the great question of setting apart some portion of the country for State forests. The placing of the land at the disposal of the Government by the Superintendents and Provincial Councils would be a gracelul thing, and save difficulty. The motion for postponement was negatived on the voices. On clause 8, Mr Mervyn asked if it was intended to encourage planting, by enabling private individuals to obtain trees at cost price. Mr Vogel replied that the matter would very much depend on the advice of the gentlemen appointed as conservators, but his own opinion was that two nurseries should be established in each island in suitable localities, without any reference to the Provincial boundaries. [Hear.] It would be the duty of the conservators, or those in charge of the forests, to distribute trees very largely. It would not be desirable that the department should supply private individuals, He did not see why private enterprise should be paralysed. The department should assist nurserymen, but should not be asked to deal very much with private individuals. It should deal rather with those in the trade, and with public bodies. But that was a question of detail for the department to determine, and it was proposed to leave the largest amount of discretion to the experience of the skilled persons who would have charge of the matter. Sir F. H. Bell sympathised with the object of the Bill, being quite satisfied that in its general scope and in time to come it would be of incalculable advantage to the colony. But he regretted that the House should be asked to leave so much to the experience of the skilled persons who would be called on. He could not help expressing his regret that in a matter of such vital importance they should he asked to go into the matter without having time given iothem to consider the Bill as it now stood without the clauses proposed to be struck out. Most of all they should endeavor to lay down in the Bill some more defined plan in respect to the planting of trees by individual persons, be-

cause after all, to make the planting of forests a success, the aid of private enterprise must to a great, extent be availed of. When they came to the 7th clause, he would propose to strike out that part of the clause which authorised the appointment of two assistant conservators, because, as they were not going to plant on the large scale contemplated by the Bill in its original shape, it would be unnecessary to go to the expense of a Department. He made these remarks with a view of inducing the Government to be satisfied with having established the principle of State forests. Mr Vogel replied that the Speaker did not understand the proposal or intention of the Government. The House was asked to undertake the establishment of State forests, and the Government would take care that there were sufficient revenues to maintain them. He maintained that £IO,OOO a year out of the consolidated revenue, was a fair contribution for such an object. If they were to can y on State forests and not use the lands of the colony for snch an object, that would be to make themselves rather ridiculous. They could not look to have state forests without the land being charged for the purpose. If they could not be taken for so essential a public purpose as the improvement of the lands of the colony, and the improvement of the climatic conditions of the country, the sooner they declared that tiie lands should be considered available for no large public purpose the better. He had too high an opinion of the good sense of the country to believe that it would endorse such a course. The Governor had power now to proclaim reserves. Did the House suppose that if the local Government shut up the bush lands from use for public purposes the General Government would stand by and submit to it ? The House need have no fear if the Bill were carried, but that State forests would be the result. Mr Macandbew did not think the forests would be better or more valuable because they were called State forests. The great object was to create forests. It was proposed that £IO,OOO a-year should be devoted to that object, but if £SOO a-year were granted to the Botanical Gardens at Dunedin, he would undertake that there should be distributed gratuitously 500,000 trees for all time to come, He merely threw that out as a hint.

Mr SWANSON inquired from what country the conservators were to be obtained.

Mr VOGEL replied that he could not say whether it would be from Scotland, Germany, or India, but the greatest possible care would be exercised in procuring the best assistance to be obtained at the salaries to be offered. The conservators would be young men who had distinguished themselves by their progress in forestry, and who would come here with the idea that they had a good deal to learn.

Mr O’Conor suggested that Dr Hector’s knowledge of forestry entitled him to be placed at the head of the proposed department.

On the motion of Mr Brandon the words “ otherwise than by selections under this Act,” and on Mr ’Murray’s motion, the words “ establishment of schools and colleges for teaching forestry” were struck out. Mr Sheehan suggested that young men might be sent home from the colony to learn the art of forestry. Mr Vogel hoped that one of the outcomes of the Act would be that promising young men might have an opportunity of making themselves acquainted with the art of forestry in other parts of the world than Now Zealand.

On clause 7. Sir F. D. Bell moved that that part of the clause authorising the appointment of assistant conservators be struck out. Mr Vogel observed that the cost was a bagatelle compared with the desirability of getting a staff likely to be successful. Mr Brandon’s motion to add the words, “ the salaries of the conservator, two assistant conservators, and other officers engaged in or about the administration of the department shall be paid out of the [State Forests Fund,” was agreed to. On clause 8, with the following additions :—“ The State forests shall consist of such lands as the General Assembly shall hereafter from time to time determine, and of such lands within any province as the Superintendent of any province, on the recommendation of the Provincial Council of such province, shall in the meanwhile request the Governor to set apart for the purposes ; and the revenues arising from such lands shall be paid to the 1 State forests account,’ ” —being moved,

Mr Eeid observed that the clause materially altered the existing land laws, and submitted that in accordance with the standing orders of the House, the Bill should be referred to the waste lands committee. The chairman of committees, on being asked to rule on the point, said it was not competent for him to pronounce an opinion, the Bill having been referred to the committee.

After some discussion, a motion that progress be reported, in order that the opinion of the Speaker might be obtained, was negatived on the voices.

In clause 20. on Mr Swanson’s motion, ten was substituted for thirty years. On the Bill being reported, Mr White moved that the opinion of the AttorneyGeneral should betaken on the point whether or not the Bill required to be referred to the waste lands committee; and, after some discussion, in which Mr Rolleston referred to the 21st clause of the Bill as supporting the view taken by the members for Taicri and Hokitika, and Mr Vogel and Mr T. B. Gillies took an opposite view, the matter dropped, and the third reading of the Bill was fixed for Tuesday.