PARLIAMENT.

Gisborne Times, Volume XXVI, Issue 2298, 17 September 1908, Page 2

PARLIAMENT.

TUESDAY NIGHT’S SITTING. [Press Association.] WELLINGTON, Sept. 16. In tlio Council, after midnight, Dr. Findlay's amendment was agreed to by 17 to 0 after a long discussion. A now sub-clause, to allow newspapers publishing any statement of fact, if the same ho genuinely for the public benefit, was added to the Bill on the voices. J lon. J. Iligg moved a sub-clause to restrict clause 19 to the electorates named in the first schedule of the Bill. The motion was rejected on tlio voices, and the clause, as amended, was agroeel to by 10 to 7. Clause 18 was amended to provide that every candidate, or other person who is knowingly a. party to any breach of the provisions of subjection 4, is guilty of corrupt practices. A new clause was added to provide that the licensing poll shall not bo affected in case of a second ballot. The Bill was reported and the Council rose at 1.20 a.in. In the House, after midnight, the Premic'r said he did not think the proposal would increase the rate of interest to tho private borrower. Guaranteed debentures hearing 4 per cent would tempt the oversea investor. The Bill was read a second time, and the Houso rose at 12.10 a.m. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. AFTERNOON SITTING. Tlio Council met at 2.30 p.m. The Wel 1 ington-Yinnawatu Railway Purchase Bill, Public Bodies Leases Bill, Inspection of Machinery Amendment Bill, and the Impounding Act Amendment Bill, from the House, wore read a first time. Tho Fire Brigades Amendment Bill, 1008, and the Destitute Persons Act Amendmont Bill passed the final stages. The Auckland Harbor Board Empowering Bill, providing for a loan of £1,000,000, was read a. second time. Tho Whakatane County Act Amendment Bill was read a second time.

The Christchurch City Betterment Bill, Canterbury College Empowering Bill, and the Opunake Harbor Bill were put through committee and reported. The Lincoln Road Board Empowering Bill, New Plymouth Harbor Board Empowering Bill were put through committee, read a third time, and passed. Tho Council adjourned at 5 p.m. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. AFTERNOON SITTING. The House met at- 2.30 p.m. Ministers, replying to questions, stated that a committee, to enquire into the -methods adopted by the Press Association in charging heavy fees to newspapers before they are allowed to participate in the use of telegraphic news, will be set up next year; that the Government has decided to appoint a Royal Commission to enquire into, and report on, the question of import duty on timber in connection with the sawmilling industry; that tho railage charges for timber cannot bo reduced at present; that Hon. R. McNab’s statement, as reported in a Wellington paper, in connection with the memorial service to Von Tomp.sky, that we in Now Zealand were living in a fool’s paradise, was correct. Ptiople were said to live in a fool’s paradise when they held and acted upon erroneous views on vital questions, the erroneous view in this case being that hold bv many, that as we were at peace with all the world, there was no call for young men to join tho volunteer force, or sacrifice their time in the service.

Air. J. Allen hoped that Hon. R. McNab’s reply would he noted all over the Dominion, and that everyone would pay attention to Hon. McNab’s definition of a fool’s paradise. He hoped tho Government would take steps to deal with the situation so described by the Minister of Defence.

Air. AA 7 . F. Massey cordially supported what Air. Allen had said. Yokin' (Miring had never been at so low an ebb, and tho fact was that volunteers were not encouraged as they should be. (Hear, hoar). It was obvious that something was wanted in lien of, or in addition to, the present system. He thought that all youths under 21 should go into training for two or three weeks every year. The Government was shirking this question. Hon. T. Y. Duncan agreed with the last speaker. He was not satisfied with the way in which the work of the Defence Department was being carried oil. Hon. R. AfcNab, replying to the criticisms, said his reference to a fool’s paradise had been misconstrued into a condemnation, on his part, of tlio volunteer system. That was not the case, and he did not condemn it one iota. His solo object had been to induce young men to thin'k of a question which is usually absent from their minds. Tho Premier said it was the constant care of the Government to see that volunteers were well treated, arid tho Government had done a great deal for the volunteers, a great deal more than they got credit for. Hon. J. A. Millar moved the committal of tho Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Bill. He said the question with which tho Bill dealt embodied the most difficult problem of the present time, a problem of world-wide application. The Dominion had had some years’ experience of arbitration, and though many said it was an absolute failure, the experience of other countries’ showed that it had been a success. Although some people might he creating discontent, with, .a view to upset the present system, the people of New Zealand were determined it should be maintained. The recent dissatisfaction with the Court had been due to the fact that wages had not been increased' as much as was wanted, but the Court- could not go on .increasing wages indefinitely, and workers must be told so candidly. The Houso rose at 5.30 p.m. EVENING - BITTING.

The House resumed at 7.30 p.m. Hon. J. A. Millar, continuing his speech, said that the workers complained that the increased wages received were valueless as they were absorbed by the increased cost of living. Did they, lie asked, suppose an employer would bear all cost of higher wages? Nowhere in the world would they find such a doctrine as that obtaining. In practical life the cost of higher wages must be passed oil and the workers and consumers'inust bear their share. He denied that the remedy. as was asserted, lay in increasing the tariff, because to increase the tariff was to handicap our exports. “The limit of anything that could be done in the way of increasing wages,” lie said, “depend upon-' the cost of outproduce and the price we could sell them at in other countries. Our tariff was designed to help local industries to go on. If we increased wages ive merely helped the imported article to come in, which meant the decline of our industries. It was therefore necessary to evolve some machinery that would bring about an improvement in tlie relations existing between capital and labor.” The existing machinery, lie continued, had proved clearly ineffective in the past two years. It was proposed to abolish Conciliation Boards. This was objected to by some, but bo could show good reason why they should bo abolished. The Boards were intended to conciliate, hut instead they had become law courts in which the parties fought, one another. He denied that the Willis blot was responsible, but rather the blame lay at the door of certain leaders of unions who" had become seized of the idea that union representatives should always fight, so lie Eaid if conciliation was wanted machinery must he provided to obtain at. There seemed some who were unable to hold office without causing trouble—(hear, hear)—and he could tell . these men they would be thought more of by unions if they created less trouble. He had letters from unions to show that they did not approve of these agitators. It was a fact that the number of disputes settled by the Boards were not in proportion to the money spent. Nobody objected to the expense, continued Mr. Millar, if the industrial practice attained—(hear, hear)—but it bad not been attained,

and recently tho decisions of tlio Court had failed. He had prepared a return, which showed that during the past fourteen years strikes in this country had involved a loss of £17,767 to tho workers, and to tlio employers £15,688. To these totals must be added £SOOO, in round figures, for penalties. This showed tho value of )reducing real conciliation, and ho lad hoped to have tho help of workers in framing the Bill, but practically no help by suggestions had come from them. He desired to toll unions frankly that- no Parliament would ever give unions such powers as would enable them to prevent any man from earning a livelihood. Ho regretted that articles that had appeared in the public press had not tended in the direction of industrial peace. Ho devoted tho rest of his speech to an exposition of tho Bill as contained in tho statement communicated by him to the press on Friday and previously telegraphed. Ho was confident that part 3 would ensuro real conciliation, and, if locally accepted, would prove the solution of tho difficulty. Ho hoped every member would assist in every way to pass tho measure and make things better than they were. (Applause.) Mr. W. F. Massey agreed that the problem was difficult. This Bill was a confession that our scheme of conciliation and arbitration had failed, and it was for tho House to determine whether it would retain on tht Statute Book the measure which had failed. While a strong believer in conciliation, he thought no measure should ho retained which would discourage enterprise and bo a drag upon, industry. The Act had done away with the sympathetic chord which existed between employer and employed before so much resort to the Court came in vogue. He preferred the Canadian system of investigation and conciliation to our own compulsory system. Referring to the Bill, he was glad the interpretation of the term “strike” had been made clear. He approved of the deletion of clause 21, requiring employers fo collect fines. Tho most important changes made in the Bill by the Labor Bills Committee were those in part 3 regarding conciliation. He strongly supported the new conciliation proposals. Continuing, Mr. Massey said that some classification was required. Two classes of the men suffered under the present—the front-ranker, who was 25 per cent' better than lws fellow, and the old and feeble, worker who had to beg for a permit to work. He did not intend to make a party matter of the Bill, but lie contended that compulsory arbitration was wrong in principle and would have to be amended off the Statute Book. It was impossible to alter -the operation of economic laws by statute laws. Sir Joseph Ward denied that the increase in the cost of living was due to the Arbitration Act. It was due to tho prices of our produce in the Old Country and to the high rents prevailing in towns. Every amendment made in the Bill by the Labor Bills Committee had been moved by tho Minister for Labor, and the Government sincerely desired the passage of the measure, whicli would ensure industrial peace. He disagreed with Air. Afasscy’s view that conciliation alone should he embodied in law. ‘ ‘We must have the whole law, including compulsory arbitration, or no law •at all. Conciliation pure and simple could be obtained without any law.” Air. Alassey, he said, had advocated the Canadian system, but the defect of that was that it imposed tlio penalty of imprisonment, and he was opposed to imprisonment for offences under /the Act. Sir Joseph Ward strongly protested against the clamor of those who had asked the Government to imprison the Blackball miners. Alorally speaking it would have been a criminal act;- to imprison those men. He hoped the- Bill would be speedily passed, when tho session could end within a fortnight. Air. A. R. Barclay said he Had given notice of 50 amendments, and would give notice of 10 more to-morrow. He declared that a wrong method had been employed ill dealing with legislation of this kind. He said the Arbitration Act was merely a palliative. It could never solve the labor problem. Air. James Allen believed in pure conciliation, but the powers granted under part 3 were not ample enough. One conciliator was not enough for each island. Grievances required to be dealt with immediately they arose, and he did not believe it was possible to have compulsory arbitration and pure conciliation together. Air. H. G. Ell said that compulsory arbitration was necessary as a. protection against the sweating employer. It was favored by .employers as guaranteeing equality of conditions. He protested against the doctrine that efficiency had decreased. He denied that tho increased cost of living W’as duo to the Act, Air. C. H. Poole continued the debate, tracing the rise of legislation in the interests of lalior on altruistic lines. He strongly advocated conciliation as the best way of settling disputes. / Dr. Chappie said tho present Bill was an improvement on the existing law, but it would Ik? still further improved if Parliament' either made a Court expert bench, doing away with conciliation councils, or made the conciliation council tile final court of equity.