COUNTY LOANS.

Gisborne Times, Volume XXVI, Issue 2276, 22 August 1908, Page 2

COUNTY LOANS.

PROPOSALS DEFEATED.

SOME PERSONAL DIALOGUES

AVlion the general business of the County Council was called upon yesterday, Cr. Lysnar rose t'o movo tho resolution that .1:200,000 bo borrow d to form tho County roads, and raid Cr. White had moved an amendment, which had not been put: before tho last mooting of tho Council. Cr., White said his resolution was ns follows: That £200,000 be borrowed, £50,000 at present and £150,000 on the valuations to come into force next year; the apportionment to bo finally adjusted on tho next year’s valuations.

Proceeding, Cr. Lysnar said ho was satisfied to agree to tho amondment. The amendment would test tho sincerity of Councillors, and all ho would ask was matter ho referred to the ratepayers, and if tliov voted against it tlio question would he at an end. No Councillor could take exception to the amendment. The meeting held at Waimata was poorly attended, and was conducted without tho attendance of any Councillor. Tho Waimata road had been in a very poor condition before a loan was raised, and now, with the payment of £2BO per year, they had good roads. If the County decided upon a loan tho rate for tho Waimata riding would only bo one-sixteenth of a penny more, while they could liquidate their old loan and have £4500 put on their roads. If tho Waimata ratepayers voted against the motion, they would bo standing in their own light. It was the duty of the Council to see .that the roads wore not bogged up, and if the Council would not decide, let the motion ho put before tho people. He hoped Cr. .MacDonald would support the motion for tho sake of the Moiu settlers, but he would respect any Councillor more if he voted lor the proposal being placed before tho ratepayers and then opposed it in his private capacity. The whole loan only meant an increased rate of one-halfpenny. “Don’t let the Council block tho proposal,” said Cr. Lysnar, “and no Councillor will bo doing his duty in stopping it, now that the apportionment will bo upon tho new valuation.” Cr. White’s amendment was then accepted as tho motion, and ill moving tho resolution, Cr. White said he thought tho motion a lair one. If they wanted to have good roads they would have to pay for them, but if they would not pay for them let tho roads bo closed in the winter. Cr. Lysnar seconded the motion.

The Chairman said ho was against tho proposal. It would not bo fair to raise a loan over tho whole county. I he time was mot opportune for borrowing, and the Government proposed to put borrowing by local bodies on ranch better terras than in the past, so that money could be obtained at about 3 ]>er cent. It was not true that all the ridings of the county needed a. loan, and those that did not should not bo burdened for tho sake of the other ridings Ho was sure tho ratepayers of the Gisborne riding who had put their hands in their poc-J kets for years to make roads, would' oppose it. “Lot those ridings that want a loan go and borrow, but don’t let one riding stop another,” concluded Captain ’Tucker. Cr. White: Has not the Council confirmed the principle of the loan? Tho Chairman: But I will oppose this method of confirmation, and unless I am hero to say whether a proposal is good or had I have no business here. I could not favor a proposal at the Council table and oppose it outside. There is no desire on the part of the public to borrow, and it is not my duty to send any proposal to the ratepayers that I do not approve of, and I certainly do not approve of this scheme. I don’t think £200,000 would go far in macadamizing roads, and the cost of upkeep would have to lie considered. Iu England the maintenance of well-made roads cost £2 10s per chain a year, and it would be in excess of that amount here. Maintenance of tho whole of tho roads would cost £64,000 a year. That fact alone is sufficient to make mo pause, and I fee] there is more argument in favor of light railways than in spending money on macadamizing roads. Cr. White: If the £200,000 loan is to be killed, I would rather see the amount reduced to £IOO,OOO. The Chairman (to Cr. White): If your riding wants a loan there is nothing to prevent money being borrowed. If any one riding wants a loan I will help it. Or. White: I have always been in favor of a loan, but I dicj not agree to the apportionment contained in tho original motion.

Cr. F. Lysnar (to the Chairman): Will you say all the roads in your riding are in good order? Captain Tucker: Yes. I know the object of your question. You flunk I will como to the Council for money for repairs. Cr. Macdonald said that in a pamphlet entitled “Facts and Figures, by W. D. Lysnar,” certain assertions were made against Councillors that were absolutely incorrect. Tho circular stated that he was against tho loan under any conditions.

Cr. Lysnar: You are misquoting the pamphlet. Cr. Macdonald: Read the clause.

Tlie Chairman: Please keep to the motion.

Cr. F. Lysnar: Cr. Macdonald cannot make false statements. Ho will dance to any tune but the right one. Th© pamphlet was then read, and Cr. Macdonald was found to be correct.

Cr. Macdonald: Is that a false statement ? Cr. F. Lysnar: Wait for three months, and you will hear worse things 6aid. Cr. Holden said the Waimata ratepayers had raised loans for themselves, and would not favor a County loan. He would not oppose any riding raising a local loan. Cr. Sherratt said hie riding did not want a loan, and ho did not think the time was opportune to go to the anoney market.

Cr. Lysnar (to Cr. Holden): Did you not stand at the county election as an advocate of these loan proposals?

Cr. Matthews rose to a point of order, and the Chairman would not permit the question. The Chairman: It must not bo forgotten that a portion of the county is likely to be severed, and a new county formed, and that part should not ho drawn into such a proposal. Cr. Lysnar (to tho Chairman): The roads in your riding are in a disgraceful condition, and many of the ratepayers have come to me for financial aid to buy a horse to take their milk to tho creameries. If you had declared your views on the loan 1 am sure you would have had a requisition asking you to support it. Cr. Matthews: I don’t want to stop here all night. Let Cr. Lysnar reply in a proper way, and not cross-ques-tion.

Proceeding, Cr Lysnar said the loan could he raised piecemeal, and there was no need to go on tho money market while the rate of interest was as high as at present. Cr. Matthews rose to a point of order. Or. Lysnar, ho said, did not move tho motion, and had no right to reply. Cr. Lysnar asserted his right to speak. Tiie Chairman (to Cr. Lysnar): For Heaven’s sake don’t let us have two speeches. Cr. F. Lysnar: Certain Councillors are trying to break the meeting up again. Wc will have the same trouble as before. Tho Chairman: Perhaps so! Human endurance lias its limits. Cr. Lysnar then repeated his arguments in favor of the 'motion. In regard to Cr. Macdonald’s position ho voted for a £50,000 loan, which was blind and and ridiculous. Cr. Macdonald: I did nothing of the kind. Or. Lysnar: Hero are tho reports and they have never been contradicted. Cr. White: Cr. Macdonald voted for the £IOO,OOO loan. Cr. Macdonald: Yos, I did. Cr. Lysnar: Pardon me. Cr. Macdonald: There is no pardon me at all. I say I did. Tho minute book showed that Cr. Macdonald voted against the £IOO,000 loan proposal.

Cr. Macdonald: If I had been present at tho following meeting I would havo had tho minute corrected.

Cr. Lysnar: Cr. Holden’s position is not one to bo discussed hero, but can be discussed somewhere else. I cannot sec why Cr. Shcrratt can vote against tho motion. Cr. Sherratt: I am hero .to decide for my riding, and not one of my ratepayers have told mo he was in favor of tho Joan.

Cr. Lysnar: Tho Waikohu riding is severing from the county because thoro are not good roads in the district. After the next election men will be returned to this Council pledged to this loan. I supported and voted for Cr. lioldeu on condition he supported this loan/ ' Too Chairman: Every man has a mind of liis own. Cr. White: Is there any more business to be dono ? Cr. Lysnar: If I made a pledge 1 would stick to it or.hand in my resignation.

Cr. Holden (to Cr. Lysnar): You cannot bring anyone "to prove I favored the loan. J-

Cr. White: Tho motion won’t bo carried.

Cr. Lysnar: I am not talking to the Council. lam talking to the people outside. Or. Matthews: .Well, then, go outside and address them. Tho reporters should not report you. Cr. Lysnar then sat down. The motion was then put, Cr. Lysnar remarking he was glad a full Council was present. Cr. White’s motion was lost by five to four.