NATIVE LANDS.

Gisborne Times, Volume XXV, Issue 2023, 7 March 1907, Page 1

NATIVE LANDS.

editions CASE IN HAAVKE’S BAY. Tho Nutivo Laud Commission was engaged during tho week in investigating tho Waimnraina block of native land in Hawke’s Bay, and some . interesting evidence was given during the hearing. The following is condensed from the report in the Hawke’s Bay Herald: Miss Meinortzhagen, called by Mr Morison, deposed that she had been actually negotiating for the leases for very nearly a year, but practically for three years. Previously she had taken steps to ascertain what, would be a fair rental for the place. She had made a calculation based on the returns for the past ton years, and find consulted two loading sheepfarmers, whose advice tallied with her calculations. She had been put to a good deal of expense in completing the lease, and bad met with considerable obstruction. Had it not been for that obstruction, she would probably have been able to-got all the signatures, probably except one, within a month. The obstruction consisted of bribing the natives. The obstruction she referred to was bribery of natives who were, on her side, constant inducements to the

natives to sell land, and representations to the Government that the public wanted a part of Waimarama run, and a road to it. The road proposed was an impossible one, and the part of the run represented as being wanted by tho public was not fit for settlement, part of it being 2000 ft high. His Honor remarked that some of the best wheat raised in Now Zealand, and sent to the Philadelphia Exhibition, had been grown at an altitude of 1800 ft. ' Witness, continuing her examination in chief, said: Prior to this agitation there was no desire on the part of the natives to sell their lands at all; in fact they presented a

petition to the late All* feeddon, asking that they should not be asked to sell them. During the time my father was in' possession there was some talk among the natives of selling on two occasions. Tho*natives were in debt, and approached my father with a view of selling to him. He refused, on the ground that ho did not think it was right that the natives should dispose of their lands. I gave notice to the Government of my leases when there was some talk of tho Government’s purchasing from natives who had leased to me and to whom I had paid money. In a general way, I can say how the sales were brought about. They were engineered by Mr and Afrs Donnelly. I do not consider the sales benefited the natives or anybody else. A sum of considerably over £30,000 was spent without benefit to the Government or settlers, and the natives have spent nearly all their money. Some have a little left, but they won’t have it long. Several of the natives who signed in favor of my lease arc now professing to oppose it. So I have heard. To one of my opponents I have paid two half-yearly payments, and to another one half-yearly payment and an advance against the next. The natives have, not put forward any objection to myself, and have never spoken to me on tho subjept of repudiating tho lease. I only know of their opposition by their being represented before tho hoard and by the fact that .someone is acting for them. Tho

last I have heard from them personally was an assurance that they desired to continue the lease. I do not kiupy of any' others who have through their agents opposed it. Six or seven have determined to repudiate. All the natives have received increased rentals under the new leases, and I had not to press them to accept it. They earns to me at the end of each half-year. I have offered no inducement, nor given any payment other than these rentals, to persuade them to sign the lease. The total amount of pay-

munis, fqr two half-years is over £SOOO. I provided reserves of hue tween '6OOO and 7000 acres out of tho lands leased for the natives I knew of, and agreed to an adjustment' if the others came in. The natives were very anxious that I should have a loase of the laud, firstly, because they wished me to stay at- Waimaranij!, and secondly because they wished to protect themselves from the partnership and—well, other things, Had the natives been left to themselves there would not have been any difficulty in connection with the leases. Mrs Donnelly: Would you have us leave our sisters, brothers,uncles and cousins to be robbed? His Honor said Mrs Donnelly must not interrupt. She was represented by counsel. r Mr Morison: Have you anything to add to your difficulties in connection with the lease. Do you know wliat it wid cost you if you get it? Witness: i am afraid it will cost me a great deal. I was threatened that there would be opposition. Mr Morjson: Have you found that the threat has been carried out. Witness: To the full —well, perhaps, I should not say to the full, as Mr Donnelly has not yet spent his last sixpence. Witness: To the full—well, perhaps I should not say to the full, as Mr. Donnelly has not yet spent his last sixpence. Mr. Morison : Then that was the threat, was it, that Mr. Donnelly would oppose ,yoi| to his last sixpence? Well, ho has a long way to go. Mr. Morison then proposed to put in a statement in the late Mr. Mcinertzhngen’s handwriting giving a history of the'negotiations in connection with tho lands up to the time lie went to England, and explaining the payment of the £IO,OOO premium. His Honor said the value of the document to the commission was that it showed how the law allowed dealing with native 1- lids: The payment of the premium meant that the natives received loss for their lands than they ought to have received. It was always the natives that had to “pay the piper.” Mr. Morison sa’tl the statement in Mr. Mcinci tssliagen's own liaiidwritthing, the reason of the terms arrived at, the proposals, couutcr-pfo-ing showed the history of everyposals, etc. Mr. Bell protested against the document being put in. His Honor said that unless the contrary were proved, it must be assumed that if a large amount was paid ill order to s cure a lease, it would eventually have to come out of the owners’ pockets. That seemed to have been the whole system

of dealing with native lands. It was eventually decided not to put in the document, and Mr. Bell proceeded to cross-examine the witness, Miss Meinertzliagen. Mr. Bell: Is it true that you had a conversation with Mr. Donnelly in 1904, and that he suggested certain rentals, for the lands proposed to bo leased, namely, 3s, 3s 6d, and 4s for different areas, although the partnership was still in existence ?

Witnes: Yes. All*. Donnelly said milling about tho partnership then.

Von moan to say that while the partnership existed Air. Donnelly suggested certain rentals?—He may have meant portions of tho land that were included in the partnership. I don’t think I have made any mistake about the date. AVluit he said was that one of tho natives, Alohi, had contended lor 4s 6d, hut ho (Air. Donnelly) had beaten him down to 3s, 3s (id, and 4s for different portions. Air. Donnelly told me I bad acted imprudently in having named a price, As, to Alohi, as whatever figure one mentioned to a native he was bound to ask for more. My knowledge of the partnership at that time was vague. ’Roughly, 1 know what natives wen- affected. The conversation took place at Ngatarawa, Mr. Donnelly’s* residence, while I was -staying there. Did you discuss with Air. Donnelly the question of leasing?—Yes, several times.

In the presence of Alls. Donnelly? —No, i do not think so. There was more than ono^ciKJ versation between Mr. Donnelly anil myself. The next was at AVaimarnma, when he returned from England. 1 do not think ho then mentioned what rent should bo paid, but he did say that 3s was inadequate. Thorp was no other occasion on which ho suggested to me tho rental I should pay. It is possible that Airs. Donnelly was present when he spoke of the 3s, 3s Cd, and 4s, but I am certain that it* was ho, and not Airs. Donnelly, who referred to the matter. In answer to Air. Alorrison you spoke of bribery of the natives. AYho do you suggest bribed the natives?— Air. Donnelly. Do you suggest he bribed them himself or through agents?—l cannot tell you. On what occasion did the bribery take place?—l have ono special occasion in my mind. Do you say that on one or that on more than one occasion Air. Donnelly bribed the natives?—l do not know that I have any absolute information except as to one occasion. From whom did you derive your information about the occasions of which you have no absolute information?—From the natives. From what natives?—From Kohetu, and Toluni Tarotu. lam soiiy I cannot remember any more. Now, as to the particular occasion about which you are certain?—lt was in January or February, 1906, when wc- first began to prepare the leases.

1 had come into Napier in connection with them, when Alohi spoke to me and said he wanted to see me at Hastings on the following Alonday on a private matter, which I understood to mean that lie wanted me to advance hup money. He did not come to me on the day named, and I afterwards learned from another native that Air. Donnelly had paid the money Alohi had required. I afterwards saw Alohi, and he admitted that Air. Donnelly had paid the amount of a summons that had been issued against him. Is that what you cal) a bribe, tho payment’ by Air. Donnelly of an amount for which Alohi was sued? How much was it.?—l cannot say how much, bu tthat was not all? much, but that was not all, So you say that Air. Donnelly paid Alohi more than the amount of this debt?—Alohi told me afterwards that Ah*. Donnelly had given him £4OO to pay his election expenses. About Karolm. Did lie receive any money from Air. Donnelly?—l do not say so, but lie informed me that an offer had been made to him, perhaps not in money, but in sheep. Do you really think if such an offer had been made Karelin would have been noble, loyal and magnanimous enough to have relnsed? He may have taken it and said lie did not. Perhaps it is improbable that ho refused, blit »f should have expected it at the time, because he was then so very much on my side. Do you think it •is probable Air. Donnelly made the offer ?—I do. AVero any other natives offered bribes?—Tahunn Renata has told me of an offer made to him, tlpit ho would be given £2OO if he would leave us and go over to Air. Donnelly to assist him to get leases. You believe that; in fact, you would believe anything against Air. Donnelly in reason. Now I' have finished with the bribery of the natives. Next, in reply to Air. Alorrison, you said that inducements had been offered to sell to the Government. AVas that wrong?—Yes, under the circumstances. They were to get the money and spend it. They were to get fair prices?—Yes. Tho Government were to get the worst; of the land, and pay- £7 per acre for it.

You say that these sales were engineered by Mr. and Mrs. DonneUyWas it wrong of tliein to do so, seeing that they-got a fair price, and, according to your own statement, the Government got: the worst ot the land? —I consider it wrong for the natives to be allowed to sell. They would spend the money, and he leit without anything.

But you knew Mr. Seddon wanted to get part of the land?—l do not know that; in fact, I believe Mr. Seddon advised tho natives not to sell. Mr. Carroll told me so.

You suggest that these inducements to soil were offered through malice to you?—l think it was fairly evident. Mrs. Donnelly did not desire the natives to soli until I had got signatures to my lease, and since then Mr. and Mrs. Donnelly have employed every means in their power to obstruct me.

. If Mr. and Mrs. Donnelly did not consent to the lease, why should they not advise their people to act in the same wav?-—They had a perfect right to do so, hut not to persuade those who wished to sign, and those who signed to repudiate their contract.

Don’t you think it merely imaginary that the Donnellys have this terrible vendetta against you, 9 --! am afraid not; Mr. Donnelly makes no secret of it.

■Re-examined by‘Mr. Morison: The attitude of Mold was greatly changed towards me alter the occasion to which I have referred. Previously bo was tlm person that was going to get mo the lease. He was my friend and the enemy of the Donnellys. Since his conversion by Mr. Donnelly he has been in opposition to me, and that actively. This closed Miss Mcinertzhagen’s evidence, and the commission. adjourned till the next day..