WATERWORKS SCHEME,

Gisborne Times, Volume XXIV, Issue 1922, 3 November 1906, Page 3

WATERWORKS SCHEME,

POINTS AT IBBUE WITH engineer.

MATTERS CLEARED UP,

Or Sheiidaa said the whole matter sen really contained in oleuso 6 of the agree mont. In the estimates of tbo oost thori was no provision mado for iho payment o iospoctors. Or Rges said uooordir.g to tho agrennoni Mr Hay was to appoint an insprotor, but be should be hero and not at Wanganui. There was no question that olauro t> meant tbo work was to bo supervised as it ► progressed, and tho work was hero, not at Wanganui. Or Sheridan considered inspection of th manuf ioture of the pipes very neOES-'.ary, Cr Race : If Mr Hay says an in-pocto-is required there it is our duty to provide one.

Mr Hay said he was sorry any misunderstanding should have arisen. He thought the agreement had made everything clear, and when he came back lie had been astounded that there bad been a question about the matter. As lie understood it. and as he thought the Council understood it, he was to provide one in-

spector. He had given way on tlm point; he Itud not thought he should pro vide any inspector, but when making tin arrangements he had staid rather that have it thought ho was trying to get toe much of his own way ho would pay foi tho inspector, and it was put into the agreement that he was to pay an inspector until tho completion of the work, and any further supervision required should be at the expense of the Council. When the need of the inspector in England arose ho had asked if he should pay him. Tiic Council agreed to pay for that one. Next the question was as to the inspection of the pipes being manufactured at Wanganui. He wrote to the Council about that, and concluded from their reply that they wished him to pay for this inspector. When a start was made at the headworks he had arranged for some one to go on, but had not tho remotest idea that he was to pay for more than one inspector—he concluded that it was merely a matter of .his recommending that an inspector was required and that the Council would iti accordance with the agreement pay for it. Cr Rees : I don't think any Councillor expected Mr Hay to pay for more than one.

| ( In reply to Cr Webb, Mr Hay said it [ • was very necessary to have an inspector where the pipes were being manufactured. During his forty years’ experience Jbs hud noi paid an inspecior one abillmg in his life, nor did he know of any other engineer who had done so. As a rule when an engineer undertook a work not only were bis inspectors paid, but he had bis surveys made for him, and his expenses paid to aod from the work, tbi igs which he bad not asked that Council to do. They bad to thank Or Bright for this proviso, contrary to all ussga, about

■ paying an inspector, wbioh mean) a /" couple of hundred pounds out of hia (Mr JHay’s) pocket. He was very sorry now be had agreed to that. Another inspeotor would be reguired for three or four mouths to look after the reticulation. He oould ' not for a moment consider his paying for that. He was now doing a good deal more than other engineers would have done, He had oome and given the Counoil a second report, and paid his own expenses, not asking for a siogle penny for that. Right throegh bo had treated them in as fair and liberal a manner as one oould treat a public body. - 1 To put it vul garly,” oonoiudsd Mr Hay, " tip's rather knooks the stuffing cu> of ODe." Cr Bright said tho whole thing ?;aa in a nutsbelJ. It was not what Mr Hay cr any engineer had ever done before—it was simply wbat Mr Hay bod agreed to do that oonoerned the Council. Whai were they paying the 1)3000 for ? It seemed olearly iuoumben! that Mr Hay 1 or his qualified representative should be on the ground to control the work. There was no need for acrimonious diecussion, What Mr Hay bad agreed to do they ex peoied him to oarry out. and what the Council bad agreed to they must carry Out. Did Mr Hay consider it bis duty to be present or have a qualified representative at the work ? Mr Hay: The inspector I appoint would be there; I would.be there cn special occasions. Cr Bright said he took stroug exo-ption to that contention. Or Sberidaa said he took the same view —it m’ght not be the oustom, but seemed to be clearly the intension of the agreement, He pointed out the clausa providing a substitute In caie of Mr Hay beooming incapacitated. He was sorry >- there should be any misunderstanding. “ I) is purely a matter of business,’' said Or Bright. " There is no spirit of antagonism ; we simply want to get what we are entitled to,’’ explained Or Sheridan. "A little more than that,” suggested Mr Hay—a little sally whioh evoked laughter. “All wo think we think wo are entitled to,” added Cr Sheridan, who further said they were all of one opinion on the matter. “ Councillors should speak for themselves only,” was the rejoinder from Cr Miller.

On the motion of Cr Sheridan, seconded % Cr Miller, it was decided to have the legal opinion read. An opinion had been obtained from the Borough solicitors, Messrs Chrisp and Coleman, who went fully into the whole matter,

Cr Bright said the opinion could not influence Mr Hay after his answer. The Chairman said briefly the opinion ■was that Mr Hay should provide supervision over the whole work from Te Arai to Gisborne, includin greticulation ; super-* vision in England and Wanganui was to be paid for by the Council. Or Whinray said ho ihought that was the Couneil's opinion too. He bad sought power for the Council to appoint a clerk of works. Or Sheridan : Wo have that right. Or Whinray asked how could they have any guarantee of the work being done satisfactorily if it.did not have the supor vision of Mr Hay or a qualified representative ? Or Webb contended, as bo had dono all through, that the work was ontirely in Mr Hay’s hands; it was to bo dono to bis satisfaction, not to Ibat of the Counoil, It would be ell the oama if they wanted one inspector or twenty—the work mast bo done to Mr Hay’s eatisfßC'ior, Mr Hay said be bad himself proposed to have an inspector here, but as the Council would not pay the man in Wsn« ganni he had paid him himself rather than Jet the work stop. They could bo assured ihe work would bo well oupervieed. He ihad many things to do that the Council had no knowledge of. Fur msiance, he hod now to go to Wanganui in connection with this work. In reply to Cr Bees, Mr Hay said be was guite agreeable to pay one inspector from inception to completion of the work. Cr Bees : Tho solioitors say the inspector should be hero. Mr Hay : 1 am quite agreeable to tbab but as the Council would not pay tho maD at Wanganui I bad to pay him. Cr Boes ; Any payment yon are not liable for I have no doubt the. Counoil would moke good, ; 11 Unquestionably,” said CrSberidaD. Cr Bees : The Council look to you, Mr Hay, to tell them where any inspector is necessary. Of course, wo would still have the right of vetoMr Hay ; I am not going to put you to any espouse I oan possibly uvtid. Cr Mtllor: The only question in dispute is as to whether Mr Hay or bis accredited representative should be hero •Jiho whole course of the work A motion drafted by Cr Bright was .banded to the Mayor: “1. That the gouacil inform Mr Buy that tho Council I' ‘ -

A speoial mooting of tho Borough Oonn was helil last night, thoco being pro "* lent: The Mayor (Mr John Townley) Ors SheriLan, Harding, Wehb, Wbinray MiJlor, Rupp, Bright, and Oolloy, Mr B. Hay, tho waterworks engineer was also in attendance. ~L The Mayor explained that as S ft renees :f / of opinion had been ixpressed ns to what '■* Mr Hay was oxpooSed to do under the terms of tbo agrtemrnt, especially in regard to tbo payment of inspectors, Mr Hay had been asked to meet them to that these matters oouH bo gono into. The question to bo decided was as to who was to pay the inspectors.

expects, iu terms of agreement, either personally or by bis accredit,od representative, the work should be continuously supervised until completion. ‘I Tlinb*nil inspection necessary on tho work should under such agreement be paid for and provided by Mr ilay.” Cr Miller: That is going past the solicitor's opinion. Cr Bright said instead of them remaining- there talking- for hours be was put ling something before them, telling Mr Hay their imerpivlation of the agreement, and if he differed I herefrom il would become a dispute to he submitted to arbitration as provided in the agreement. Mr ilay: Povou expeel an engineer to stand over a man caulking a joint Is that tho class of man you want ? Cr Bright said it was not, a matter of inspectors it was simply a question whether the engineer or his qualified ro-.u-esontative was expected to he here durng the progress of the work. The qiies- 1

turn of an inspector was a mere bagatelle s "If you decline any liability to he present.’ oonoludfd Cr Bright, "it is time for the 3 Council to join issue with you, and find I whether you are liable or not.” Mr May : M.y inspector would bo my , representative hove. Or Harding raid tho matter should depend on tho iigi-eamoni without passing any resolution. They had had an agreement carefully prepared, and if that were rariijd out everything should ho satisfactory, It soetued unrosa enable to oxpeos Mr Hay to be hero tho whole time, bur he must tiikn the 0.-. m■: £ tho wo-.k fn a building tho architect might nor vi.-is it tor t fortnight n‘. a time, It a) lto was re 'ponsih'f £ '■ tin w k. Cr Sheridan: His work is above ground this is not V t r Harding said that did not matter I if the material was not there ihe work could not bo carried out properly. MiHay had a reputation and if the work | were not carried out satisfactorily to the Council where would he come in? i

Or Sin ridan : We are net building this on Mr Hay’s reputation, Or Harding; You are. Wo have carried out bis schema, for whioh ha is responsible. Cr Sheridan said there was only one thing if they oou’d not agree, to refer tho ma’ter to arbitration. Or Harding : That is what I am trying to get you want to monopoliso the whole evening. (Laughter.) Or Sheridan : I nm trying to got you to ace tbo thread of tbo argument. (Laughter.) "WearonoS all like you—your brilliancy is only exceeded by one thing, tha) I can see,” retorted Cr Harding, who said all he r.-qoirod was to havo the terms of tho agreement carried out.

Cr Colley said that was all they wanted, but could Cr Harding tell them how it should bo carried out. That was what they had to go into. The agreement was not being carried out as they understood it.

Cr Harding : Give Mr Hay notice the agreement is to be carried out. Cr Bright: That is what I propose to do. Cr Sheridan: It is a question of opinion as to what tho agreement is. There is no doubt Mr Hay is carrying it out as he understands it. Mr Hay: I havo to carry out your works and see them to a successful issue ; as far as I know that is all the inspection required.

Cr Colley referred to the term “ supervision.” Mr Hay explained that that was professional supervision. Cr Webb said if they were agreed about the inspectors they wore lighting about nothing. Cr Colley : We want to see if supervision is to be provided. Cr Webb said lie wanted to leave the responsibility entirely on Mr Hay. Cr Wbinray: Wo are not here as dumb dogs.

" What do you know about engineering anyway ? ” asked Cr Webb, whereat there

was laughter, Cr Miller: We are not all dumb dogs here to-night. Some of us havo a lot to say. (Laughter.) Cr Whinray : He wants us to bo under the table and say nothing. *’ And they are such old cronies, too,” laughingly interposed Cr Miller, giving things a humorous turn. In reply to Or Sheridan, Mr Hay said he had nothing tq sn-v. _ Li reply to questions he said he considered the work was being carried on as it should be. From each of his inspectors he received a weekly report, and went into all details, attending to matters personally where necessary. Cr Sheridan '■ I think wo must accept Mr Hay’s assurance that his residence here is not necessary. Cr Miller asked'what Mr Hay proposed doing by himself or his accredited agent ? hu Ui.y «.id, in view t.f mu po-iti >a teskon up, is WiH hardly fair ;o ask him ta unbosom nimielf forth in So pa-s some resolution on it. Hi would haye to consider the position. Or Miller : There is probably fewer of the Gounod against you than you think. Cr Bright : We ace not against you at

Cr Bees said the whole question was whether sufficient supervision was provided.

Cr Sheridan : He says there is. Cr Webb : With the plans and specifications and the inspeotor you have got, don’t you Ihink the work will bo earned out faithfully ? Mr Hay : Yes, evoi y'.bicg.

Cr Bright then moved, aid Cr Ooi’cy eeconded, “ That the Couric.l inform Mr Hay ihat tho Council expects in terms of h's agreement, either personally or by his accredited representative, the work should be continuously supervised until its complotior,”

Cr Webb: That ia wbat ho is doing DOW.

Cr Sheridan : Mr Hay assrris that he is supervising. Ido not think the motion mush good when we have arrived at this siege.

Or Bright: I don’t think your opinion amah good, backing and filling as you do. Cr Bess supported the solicitor’s opinion that supervision was necessary. The question was what, from an engineering point of view, omoontid to competent supervision. . Or Webb : Ha says wo have that now. Or Hardicg said the engineer took the responsibility, and tbo Oounoll ought to be satisfied w.t'a that. Cr Whinray considered the motion unnecessary in face of clauso 6 of the agreement.

Tha motion was then put and lost. For: Crs Bright, OoHey, and Whinroy, Against : Crs Miller, Harding, Webb, Bees, Sbcr'dan, and tbo Mayor; Or Sheridan : I vote against it beoause it is unnecessary. Cr Bright then retired. General inHiers were then gone into. On tha motion of Cr Sheridan, seconded by Or Webb, tbo engineor wa3 authorised to appoint an inspector for the reticula* tion when necessary.

On the motion ofCr Sheridan, seconded by Cr Miller, the appointment of Mr Hamilton at Wanganui was ratified, and as that inspector was leaving Mr Hay was authorised to appoint another on behalf of the Council.

In reply to Cr Harding, Mr Hay said that he would visit the works, at least every month, and as often as required. The Mayor explained, in regard to Mr Coustin’s absence that all the work required had been set out, and that there was plenty to keep the contractor engaged in the meantime.