PARLIAMENT.

Gisborne Times, Volume XXIII, Issue 1859, 13 September 1906, Page 3

PARLIAMENT.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL.

PRESS ASSOCIATION Wellington, last night, The Council mot at 2 80 p m.

Replying to a question tabled by tho on. \V. Bcohan, Hon. A. I’itt stated that with regard to providing separate institutions for imbeciles and epileptics now confined in mental hospitals there was such a separate institution at Richmond and another at Wanganui. Government, however, were considering a scheme of extension of tho principle. Hon. J. D. Ormond moved for return of blocks of one thousand acres and over of native waste lands in the colony, so as to enable proper consideration of the measuro promised by tho Government for dealing with such lands, tho return to set out what blocks aro unoccupied and waste. Tho motion was carried. Tho Town-Districts Bill was committed. Hon W. C. Smith moved a now clause providing that a Town Board may, in anticipation of its current rovenue, borrow from a bank by way of overdraft, the amount so borrowed not to exceed tho provious year’s incomo The elauso was agreed to. In Committee on tho Fire Arms Act Hon. S. T. Gcorgo moved to make the age limit for purchase of tire arms or ammunition 13 years instead of 10 as provided. Agreed to. The provision making it illegal for youths to carry fire arms or ammunition was amended on tho motion of Hon. H. I' Wigram by eliminating tho words “ and ammunition ” Hon. S, T. Gcorgo endeavored to have the sub section imposing imprisonment for non payment of a tine struck out, but was defeated by I‘2 to 7. The Bill was reported with amendment and the Counoil adjourned at 3 50.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

The House met at 2.30 p.m. LAND OWNERS.

Mr Massey gave notice of motion for the produolion of the names of the owners of properties of over £50,000 unimproved value.

STAMP VALUE.

The Hoo. Mr Carroll gave notioe of a motioD to appoint a oommittee to oonsider the Stamp Aot Amendment Bill. STOCK COMMITTEE.

Mr Hogg, newly-appointed ohairman of this committee, referred eulogistioally to the servioea extenling over many yeara of bis predecessor, Mr Lawry, who had resigned.

QUESTIONS. Two batobea of answers to the questions of the past fortnight were answered on the supplementary order paper. The main answers were as follows : In the matter of friendly societies, notion baß been taken to go on with the valuation of friendly societies wbioh has been interrupted by the resignation of Mr Leslie, t£e late Registrar and Actuary, and a -'Registrar of Friendly Scoieties has just been appointed, aDd he will be able to review and report upon the condition of work in the office and how Ibe arrears may best be dealt witb. The supposition that a faster mail Bervioo between Liverpool and New Zsaland ii possible via Tehuanlepeo than by way of San Franoisoo is not supported by facts. The question of anti trust legislation is engaging the attention of Government. ‘As.to the railway men who went out on strike in 1890, and their request to have the time they served in the railway servioe previous to the strike, oouDt for super* annuation purposes, the Minister regrets that it is not possible to make an arrangement suoh as that suggested. In the first plaee it would be inequitable in its bearing upon the staff generally, inasmuch as it would give the men referred to an advantags over hundreds of other men who have had their sorvioes determined at various times for different reasons, and haviDgre entered the servioe subsequently lost the benefit of their former time for superannuation. The fundamental principle of th 6 Railway Superannuation Fund was continuous serviop, aDd continuous servioe formed the basis on whioh the contribution and benefits were calculated. Iu regard to Mr Massey's proposal to have road m9tal carried free on the railways, road metal for the use local bodies is already oarried at a rate which is praotioally nominal, viz., half Class “ A” rate with a minimum of per ton. This minimum rate operatos for distances up to 27 miles, aod is unremunerativs to the Railway Department. Toe concession of half rate was made to local bodies in 1895, and has been largely availed of throughout the colony. It is quite impossible to farther reduce rates. The question of getting phonographic records of Maori songs, etc., is be'mg con’ aidered. Hotelkeepers have been eiicularised throughout the colony, and informed that if they are found selliDg tobacco or cigar•ltes on the statutory half holiday a prosecavion will follow. jPtho proposal to take the various school companies of the oolooy to the Ohtistohureh Exhibition involves a heavy expenditure, and it is not cleat that corresponding large advantages would be gained. There are etill greater difficulties in providing for the transit and accommodation of sohool children other than oadets. The question of the supervision of considerable bodies of children, even if Iheße include only pupils of the fifth, sixth, aDd seventh standards is not an easy one, bot the supervision must be provided i for both on the journey to and from Christohurcb, and during the stay at the Pxhibllion itself. Further, it is probable that the transport system of the oolony will in any ease be strained to accommodate ordinary visitors, and it is by no means dear that it coaid bear the additional strain of conveying many thousands of sohool children. A Marooni installation would oost £II,OOO, and involve an annual expenditure of £20,000. The Obathams will not be forgotten when wireless tebgrapby U applied to the outlying portion of the oolony. The Government will be glad to negotiate with Cape Oolony for ao exohango of historical matter. The substitution cf fortnightly for monthly' payments to the Civil service would bo too costly. Is is not intended to iDtroduoa a Raferandum Bill this session. Every effort has been made to induce the Scottish Sooiety to alter the dates of their fixtures, but so far without avail. In the matter of the voucher wrapper brought up by Mr Fisher the reply was : “The wrapper is nothing moro than a used envelope from the returning officer’s waatepaper basket wbioh the writer of the article in tho Napier Daily Telegraph has ' ooufcuoded with the wrapper of tho paroel of used ballot papers of tho whole eleotorate, wbioh the returning officer forwarded to tho clerk cf lho House of Representatives es direoted by section 143 of the Rleotoral Act. It has evidently not been observed by the hoD. member that the Eleotoral Aot of last year altered the procedure of dealing with the ballot papetß, aDd plaoed the onus of counting the ballot papors and tho votes upon the returning officer, instead of accepting the pr results from the deputies as formerly.” With resprot to the New Zealand policyholders of the Equitable Life Assuranoo Sooiety of the Uniied States the Public / holds securities to the value of £50,000 on account of tho above society ■; that deposit is held in trust by him, firstly to secure polioyholders whose policies are registered with him nnder tho provisions of the Life Assuranoo Companies Act, 18731 and secondly subjeot to the foregoing for the benefit of the polioyholders pari passu of the society. The proyision made in the Aot of 1873 for the registration of policies was repealed by Aot No. 37, 1895 so that the registered policies are a continually diminishing number aDd will disappear entirely in the course of time. This is all the information the Government can supply with regard to the question. It is added that it would be undesirable to give the above polioyholders policies in the , Government offioe exoept in the ordinary way-

..Where members of the Kailway Department invent or oompleto any oontriyance entirely their own expense, they are

tioas, that whoroby Oho invoution is worked out at tko oxponso of tho Depart* mont, tho approval of tho Gouora! Managor is required to bo obtained boforo any patent is applied for. Members of tho service aro expootod

to advise tbo Department of nuy improvomoots which suggest thomsolvos whilst in the discharge of their otfioial dutios. Every such suggestion is considered, and doalt with entirely on its merits, and members are dealt with accordingly. It rarely happens that tbo suggestions are o! nuy practical value, nud it is uot possible to lay down a hard and fast rulo in tho matter of reward. It is not drsirablo to take any notion in

tho matter of representation until tho Representation Commissioners oonsidor tho report wbioh has boon mndo to them in tho usual way (as proscribed by law) by tho Registrar-General. Tbo afternoon was dovotod to incidental complsiuts. The House adjourned for dinner at 5.30.

APPRECIATION. The following is tbo resolution of tho Stock Commit oo on tbo late ohairmaD, reported to tbo House by tho now obairman: “That this oommilteo desires to plaoo on l'eoord its apprec : a'ian of tho services rendered by tho late chairman, Mr Lawry, during his long term of fifteen years’ oooupanoy of that post, and that this resolution bo reported to tho House.”

EVENING SITTING. Tho llouso resumed at 7.30 p.in, BALLOT CARD BILL.

Sir W. Steward moved tbo second road iDg of this Bill, explaining tho details whioh have been already punished. Ho claimed that informal votes and mistakes in voting would bo impossible under the measure, and tho final counting of votes much expedited. The Bill was read a seoond time on the voices. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ELECTION BILL.

Sir W. Steward moved the seoond read-

inR of thia Bill, lie deolaeed that, as ondiDg the Oounoil was for certain reasons impossible, he would ask the House to accept his proposal to mend it. In 1904 ho had obtained the seoond reading for a Bill for mending the Council by plaeinp the election of its members in the hands of the House of Representatives. That Bill was thrown out at the third reading stage by the votes of the Ministry of the day. During the discussion a proposal had been lost by a majority of one for making the General Assembly tbo eleotoral college. This principle had been put forward in a Bill by the late Sir Frederick Whitaker in 18SS. In 1905 ho (Sir Wm. Steward), takiog the bint of the above division, had brought forward bis Bill on these lines, and obtained a seoond reeding by 44 to 21, Messrs MoNab and Fowlds voting with ths majority. He olaimed their votes on the present oooasion. He also claimed the Premier’e, referring to a past speeoh of the hon, gentleman. The present strength of the Oounoil was 34. By November next six members would drop out by effluxion of time, and by that time of next year ou9 more would retire from the same oause. Ia June next the st ength of the Council would fall automatically to 27. Of these 10 would be life members, and the rest would retire by effluxion of time by 1909 and 1910. Toe time was therefore opportune for undertaking the alteration he proposed. Mr Ell did not see tbo neoeasity for a seoond Chamber. He did not think the Legislative Council carried out the will of the people, but he would support the seoond reading. Hon. Sir J. G. Word complimented the mover on his moderation and persistence. If he remembered right the speech of his to vvhioh the mover had referred was directed against a proposal for the abolition of the Upper House. For his own part he could not in the course of a long experience remember that the Council had ever opposed the will of the people. Were Ibis measure oarried there would be a loDg oourso of unsettling agitation and a great difficulty of attaining the Royal assent. The Council was the only check on hasty legislation, and some cheek was decidedly necessary. The measure dealing with its constitution whioh bad passed the Lower Hooso had been thrown out by the Council, and public opinion had obanged about that measure. The elective system had proved disastrous wherever tried in connection with the seoond Chamber. He was astonished at the protest of the member fir Waimate against the members of the Government of the day giving their votef, in any direction they bkod, the faot of course beiDg that they bad the right to do bo without being subjected to ths dictation of every member who happened to hold strong views on any particular question, He urged that the system of nominating the members of the second chamber would always have the support of public opinion so long as good appointments were made. The Leader of the Opposition had recently urged the application to the case of some modification of the Hare system. If that proposal beoame law there would bo confusion of voting, and many voters would be voting for members of both Houses when logically, from the representative point of view, thero ought to be only one. Moreovor, the wealthier seotions cf tbo community would monopolise the seats whioh ought to be open to all. In the multiplicity of the diverse opinions on this subject he thought the best plan would be to leave tbD nomination in the hands of the Government, wbioh had the right to represent the people. He would aid that instead of diversity of opinion there must be a proved charge of improper constitutional behavior, and thero was no foundation for such a oharge, virulently and frequently as it had been put forward. This fact would tell when any change came to be asked for in the controlling of tbe constitutional quarter. He reminded the House that there was no oase on wbioh eny member of the Council had aoted with dishonor io his private or public capacity, but even if there were, that would not be a reason for making a revolutionary constitutional change. He would repeat that if good appointments were made the Connoil would go on for years amioably doing good work, in con janction with the representative House, both being free from the deadlocks wh'cb characterise the systems to which the advooatoi of a change desire to approxi mate. In conclusion he would say “ Let well alone.” Mr Massoy approved of the improvement made in the Bill, which would obviate all danger of election by caucus, and secure a qualified addition to the eleolomte. Tbe Premier wa3 oontont to leave well alone. He, for his part, was not with him. He would vote for the more demooratio proposal represented by tbo Bill. Ho was in favor of the bicameral system, and he fa’led to see why there should be deadlocks here merely because they were known elsewhere. Ho advo cated a modification of the Hare system as likely to abolish lcoal influences and provide tbo best olass of meo. Ho denied that poor men would be excluded uader it. He was glad to see this Bill, because ho feared the Government would reinforce the Oounoil with a number of appointments, He hoped that at all events they would be good ones. He believed that those who make laws for the people should be elected by the people, but he would vote for the second reading. Mr Barclay urged that the bicameral system bad been a failure wherever it had been tried. Mr Major denounced the sioglo Chamber system as shattered by historical verdict. Mr Flatman oomplimented the mover on the improvement in his Bill, and advised- him to wait until next year and bring in a bettor one still. Mr Malcolm suggested an electorate oomprtsed of members cf the Lower House who have boon three tunes elected. Mr Fiehor preferred election by the people with periodical retirement of members, following the lines of the Bill introduced by the Hen. Mr Wigrem in the Council last year, and rejected by that Hon. W. Hall-Joncs found objections to all the proposals made, and would vote against the Bill. . Mr Thompson saffl the mover hadgivon no reason for the Bill. He would vote for the second reading to show his respect for the eleotion principle, and he would then insist on finding some other form of election than the very bad one embodied in the Bill. Mr T. Mackenzie thought it waa on-

did not oato if it wbb oleotion or aolootion, bo long as tho right tnon woro ohoson. Mr Ilauan did not liko a Boooud Chamber, nnd likod tho Bill. Mr Mander objeotod to tho nomination system. Hon. Mr McGowan urgod that outsido oiootion would moroly duplioato tho House

of Roprosrntativea. Sir W. Stoward replied to tho various c itioisms. Ha insisted that tho appoint* incuts of rooent years would havo bcon much bettor if they had boon rnado by Parliamont, Ho olaimod that publio opinion was greatly exoited about tho question. If this Bill passed, ho pointed out that on tho 16\h of October the two Houses would beforo tho prorogation of Parliamont have tho privilrgo of olecting ton members of tho Oounoil.

Tho House divided on second reading. Tho following was the division list: — Ayes (34) Aitkon, Arnold, Barber, Baumo. Bonnet, Bollard, Buddo, Colvin, Ell, Fisher, Flatman, Groonshule, Hanan, Hardy, Ilcrrios, Hogan, Jennings, Kirkbride, Lauronson, T. Mackenzie, Mac* pherson, Malcolm, Mandor, Massoy, Ngata, Poland, Poole, llcid, Rhodes, Stalhvorthy, Steward, Tanner, Thomson, Witty. Noes (24) J. Allen, Barclay, Carroll, Duncan, Field, Fowlds, Graham, Hall, IlalLJones, llogg, Houston, Kidd, Lawry, McGowan, 11 McKenzie, McLachlan, McNab, Mills, Parata, Remington, Ross, Seddon, Ward, Wood. NOXIOUS WEEDS BILL.

Mr 11. McKenzie moved tho second

reading. Messrs Field, Witty, Flatman, Buddo, lion. McNab, and Jennings spoke, pointing out possible amendments. Tho mover replied, expressing his readiness to accept reasonable suggestions. The Bill was read a second time on tho voices, and tho House adjourned at 11,10.