SOCIALISM.

Gisborne Times, Volume XXII, Issue 1734, 27 April 1906, Page 3

SOCIALISM.

TBE “IDEAL” AND THE “REAL”

Two great platform spaak-.rs, Mr Holman, tho arch-priest of the socialists in New South Wales, and Mr G. H. Reid, tho acknowledged leader of tho anti* socialists of tho Commonwealth, discussed tho question of socialism in Sydney on April 2. A tpaoious ha'l and two ocmmodioua gallerioß were filled with an intensely interested audionoe, representative of both parties, ia equal numbora. Suoh were tho oonditiona which obtained at tho Centenary Halh when tho longexpeoted public dobato took plooe, Mr Holman was tho first speaker. It was his task to tell the audience what “ Socialism ” meant, Mr Reid to answer him.

Mr Holman oomplained twice that hie opponent did not tell the audionoe what bis policy of •* anti-socialism ” was. Mr Reid waited until his third speech lo make bis point on that bead, and then bo dcolared, “ I will givo it in a nutshell -—I am opposed to it l” The audience cheered and laughed—according as they liked the hit. “My friend is here to justify sooia'ism ; I am just pickiog holes in what he soys in order to show the other side, you know.” Thus Mr Raid—and in those few words ho described the whole dobato.

Mr Holman said the Libor party bal two ideals —theoceation of a national sentiment, and ‘‘the seouring of the full results of their industry to all producers by tho collective ownership of monopolies." Ho built all hia argument upon the soGond ideal, and asserted that it could be eohievod —that forces cow at work made it “ inevitable and desirable.” There were many ladies—oven soma young girls - in the audience, and Mr Ho’man told them that “ a few years ago there wero four or five kinds of cotton in the market —now there are only two, and both off tho same firm’s maohinory.” Tnis was an introductory remark apropos cf the formation of trusts ; aud a reference to the croat’on of a “ grinding monopoly ” in tho manufacture of screws brought out Mr Chamberlain’s name aDd a burst of cheering. Mr Reid, who bad made notes oarefully during the speeob, sipped a glass of water, put a “ lolly ” in hia rnoutb, and got to wotk solidly. “This polioy instead of promoting tho welfare of the people will throw them back into the state from which they havo happily emerged. . . . . When Mr Holman Bpeaks of machinery as a ‘ curse ’ I remind him of the condition of humanity when machinery was unknown. The further back you g-, the fewer applianoes humanity had, the more deplorable the state of humanity was, aod now look at tho oondit’oo ; surely this great expansion of machinery is not a cur6e 1 ” “ The leas you know, the more you believe,” he oontinued, and thon proceeded to give some “ facts ” to show that the wealth of the workers in England had grown immensely eioce the introduction of machinery. ‘ls cne of the evolutions of industrial oconocny to be that we are to go back to the time of the blackfellow ? He was perfeo.ly happy—ho had no machinery.” " Competition will bcoome worse than ever when you get this co operative Commenweaih. It will be a-competition for Governmtnt billet''.”

It is an old plea that tho worker is the real wraith-producer, but Mr Reid made a point when ho asked whether it was tho man who got an ounce of gold who produced the wealth it represented, or the man who found the thousands of pounds to sink the shaft at the bottom of which tbe gold was found, To take over the induetriee would coat about £1,000,000,000, another £1,000,000,000 would be wanted for. buying out tbe shopkeepers, and yet another £50,000.000 just to play with at the stait, That is 1150 millions of pounds, and that at 5 or & per oeDt would run into 50 or 60 millions a year. “ What a cheerful prospeot 1" said Mr Reid. Mr Holman, in his next speeob, adopted a lighter tone, and woiked in a spirit of levity, which is somewhat unusual with him. Throughout this and his third speeob, however, the subject matter was in the nature of amplification of previous arguments and replies to Mr Raid’d contentions.

Mr Reid took a similar stand. He amplified; and he chaffed, and ridiculed the aituatioos pictured by Mr Ho'man. On the following evening the Cmtenary Hall was again c.owded. Mr Rtid spoke first this time. He aoceptrd Mr Holman’s challenge and declared bis ideal of ad “ ideal Government aDd an ideal State.” An ideal State: 11 A community of highly-educated men and women, enjoyiog the fullest measure of personal liberty, who needed no compulsion to do their duty to their neighbors and to the Stato.” An ideal Government: “A Government whoso power is ever exeroised to improve the opportunities of the people, end is never exeroised to interfere with the personal liberty, eo long as the people abstain from wroegdoiDg.” Mr Holman said that socialists aimed at tho nationalisation of all industries. Tho New South Wales Labor party did not go eo far.” “ I did not dream of suggesting that machinery was in itself a curee to humanity.” Mr Reid in reply : I om going to answer a whole lot of questions in one. “ There are a number of points in which the socialists and I are in sympathy. The one point at which we patt company is when the socialists want to exeroise the power of tbe State to uproot and destroy private enterprise instead of assisting it.” Mr Holman : Mr Reid said at Toowoomba that if tbeHe industries oould not

live without protection then the Commonwealth Government should take them up, and then there would be better wageß, better hours, and better conditions for (he workers. No one underslocd our case better than Mr Reid when he made that statement, I am prepared to stand by that.

Tho very interesting debate olosed amid tumultuous applause for both speakers. The whole of tbe debate is best summed up in the explanation that Mr Holman pictured a glorious future, with no monopolies, no trusts, and " the full results of their industry secured to the produoorp,” and Mr Reid replied that " even the most brilliant oastles in the air don’t butter any bread."