THE RECENT POLL.

Gisborne Times, Volume X, Issue 1009, 30 September 1903, Page 2

THE RECENT POLL.

MR FRANK HARRIS’S SATIRE.

A LIVELY MEETING

MR HAY TO BE CALLED IN TO REPORT.

At the Council meeting last night the following letter was received from Mr Frank Harris; — 11 1 understand that Mr Reynolds, C.E., will shortly arrive hero, when advantage should be taken of his visit to obtain a report on tho Waihirero water supply. I would also respectfully suggest to your Council that Cr Lysnar bo detailed to accompany him to the site and point out the holes and slips in the catchment area, and any other defects. Cr Whinray, who has shown such profound knowledge of geology in the study of the strata of the locality, should likewise be requested to join the party and impart all the valuable information at bis command. By doing so these Councillors would render a public service.” *• Let it lie on tho table," said Cr Lysnar in regard to the letter. Cr Harding said that overlooking tho humorous portion, which might have been left out of the letter, there was a suggestion which they might consider. It had been asserted that Mr Mestayer had not had a free hand. Although he did not believe all the engineering opinions in tho world would alter the opinions of two Councillors on Waihirero, tho Council might, as Mr Reynolds wus coming here, obtain an unbiassed report from him. Cr Whinray said that the subject would come up later on. Cr Kennedy said that that was tho proper time to deal with the question. He was prepared to support tho suggestion. Cr Lysnar : That letter as it stands calls for no comment.

Cr Kennedy : Not from you. Cr Lysnar: Nor from the Council in face of the vote given by the ratepayers. It was for them now as a Council to look round for some better place. Cr Harding : Not as a Council. Cr Lysnar: As a Council. A committee should be set up to report on probable schemes outside of Waihirero; they had had sufficient reports on that. Thoy did not want to rush this matter with indecent haste. Ho suggested that the Committee be the Mayor and Crs Somervell, Johnston, Whinray, and the mover. Other sources had been suggested, such as the Arai, Mangarueka, and Wakapunake, and the one suggested by Messrs Porter and Smith. If they took a run out to those places it might not be necessary to take an engineer. Cr Konnedy: You don’t want an engineer ? Cr Lysnar said ho did not want to saddle the Council with the cost of taking an enginoor to a lot of wild cat schemes. He was willing to make one of a committee to go out. Cr Hepburn : If you think a source is good and the engineer that it is bad, you will placo your opinion in front of his ? Cr Lysnar said they should have a schemo on which an engineer could report in such a way that the details would stand criticism. Cr Harding : You will have to manufacture an enginoer yoursolf. Cr Lysnar: There is no occasion for that. •» Cr Harding : He will have to be born—he is not born yet. Cr Lysnar : Leave Waihirere alone. Cr Miller : Let us get him there. Cr Lysnar : And to Waimata. Cr Kennedy : Sheep dips. (Laughter.) Cr Lysnar said people who knew no better talked a lot of twaddle— Cr Konnedy : By you. Cr Lysnar : No, by you. Cr Miller asked the Chairman’s ruling as to what was before the meeting. Tho Mayor said Cr Lysnar had the floor.

Cr Lysnar then moved in accordance with his suggestion for a committee. Cr Whinray seconded the motion. He

wont on to say that if these matters had been investigated in the first place there would havo been no need for dissension. Tho committee should visit probable and improbablo schemes, and report to the Council.

Cr Kennedy: Excluding the Waihirere ? Cr Whinray : No. Cr Kennedy : Cr Lysnar said so. Cr Lysnar said he had simply given his personal opinion that they should not spend more money on that. The Mayor took strong exception to the

statement that Mr Mestayer’s hands had boon tied to ono scheme, and recited what had actually takon place to show that Mr Mestayer of his own choice accepted Waihirere as an exoellent source. • He moved as an amendment :—" That tho Council now decides to engage the services of an expert to report upon a suitable and up-

to-date water and drainage scheme for the Borough of Gisborne, and would suggest the name of Mr Metcalfe as the engineer to be engaged, and also that the services of the engineer bo at the disposal of the

committee, who now have the confidence

of the ratepayers, and who have stated their intention to procure for Gisborne a suitable water and drainage system.” His Worship expressed his deep regret that the poll had been lost, but said the proposal ho now made should give some satisfaction to those who had unselfishly voted for water and drainage, and would, he believed, be prepared to again vote for it. He quoted the opinion of Mr Perham on Waihirero, that it was an excellent source for a water supply and was good holding ground. He also advised them not to havo anything to do with a pumping scheme if it could be avoided. He was ono of the most eminent water conservation engineers in the colony. Cr Harding seconded the motion, but said that he had no knowledge of Mr Metcalfe.

The Mayor said he did not know him either, but knew that he was a man of high repute. Ho would leave the naming of the engineer to the Council. Or Somervell supported the proposal, but thought the last portion of the amendment was hardly gentlemanly. As for the letter, he did not think it should have been read. It was an inuendo that he should consider insulting. Such a letter was better sent to the newspapers where it could be answered publicly. He had always contended that if they did not pay for water and drainage they would have to pay doctors’ bills, 11 We are now,” he added with emphasis, “ for the want of drainage nursing beds for the germs of any epidemic that may come along.” They should try and remove that stigma. (Cr Lysnar: Hear, hear.) Or Kennedy said ho had pleasure in supporting the amendment. Ho expressed his deep sorrow at the result of the last poll, admitting that it was a bitter pill to swallow. The latter portion of the amendment, he thought, was something they had to admit. In the face of a large majority of the Council bringing forth the scheme against two opponents, they had been defeated at the poll, and it was evident the bulk of the ratepayers were not in sympathy with them. There was no us 9in burking the question. At the moment of defeat it had beou suggested that they should resign in a body on account of the vote of want of confidence, but on mature reflection he had come to

the conclusion that it was their plaoe to stop there and see that this thing was going to bo dono. Cr Lysnar : See fair play.

Cr Kennedy said they wanted to pin the opponents down to it and see if they had something better. The Council had done its best to provide an efficient and economical scheme, the most economical ever provided, but the opposition to the scheme had raised every technical point, and if right from a technical point of view they would take the loophole of saying that it was wrong from an economical point of view. They could not have the water and drainage without some additional burden, but Waihirere would mean the lesser burden. Failing the offering of something better to them, they should go back to the ratepayers on it. They should not stop as they were. The Council would be willing to join hands with the opponents if they would offer anything better, Cr Lysnar : And you oppp.se our motion to stari'with.

Cr Kennedy said that Councillor Lysnar had brought him along schemes Which hB would not listen to, any more than he supposed Cr Lysnar would listen to schemes of his. He was not going to place the opinions of a layman against that of a professional. If another engineer could show theta a better and more

’ economical scheme he would drop Waihirere for it. He was not wedded to it. If they could get water from any other source at a reasonable cost he would not hesitate to support it. Ho was prepared to support a schemo that would supply them with health and not layup aheritago of woe. The keynote to the whole position, ho feared, was 11 We don’t waut extra rating.” Ho went on to relate how ono man who bad gone to voto for Waihirero had been turned from doing so by being told that on his property valued at £SO a year it would cost him £l7 a year. Such tactics were absolutely unfair. The ordinary working man could not grasp a thing of that sort. Cr Lysnar : Why did you not put it in a correct waj ? „ Cr Kennedy said tho result had como

to him as a great blow. They had simply relied on the scheme as being for tho betterment of tho town, and tho people who had opposed it aud had carried their way had no reason to feel proud of themselves. The only time when they would be able to feel proud of themselves was when they brought forward a better scheme than Waihirere.

Cr Miller objected to tho motion. He was not agreeable to tho constitution of tho committee. He did not want any councillor’s opinion—bo wanted an engineer’s. As to Waihirero, he wa3 quite satisfied to take tho voice of tho people. What ho wanted to soo now was an engineer brought here to report on tho whole of tho water schemes, and ho would support tho amendment for that purpose. Cr Johnston supported tho amendment, but would like to soo the last portion expunged. The Mayor said it was an outcomo of the poll. Cr Kennedy said thore was no gotting away from the fact that it was outside people gotting Mr Reynolds here. Cr Johnston said tho addition simply meant shelving tho question. Tho Mayor said surely not. It reforred to Crs Whinray and Lysnar, or nnyono else, tho Council paying for tho report. Cr Whinray : You are taking a wrong view of it.

Cr Lysnar said he regretted very much tho tono of the Council on the subjoct. Cr Kennedy had touched the core of tho doubting of that Council when ho said ho did not think the opposition would bring anything else forward, and tho people would say, “Bring Waihirere in again and we will support you.” It seomed to him to bo the intention of that Councillor to obstruct them, and do anything that would prevent an open and fair enquiry into the matter. • Cr Miller said ho would like to know how far the Mayor intended to allow Cr Lysnar to go on making such statements. Cr Kennedy said the Mayor had already refuted Cr Lysnav’s assertion. The Mayor said tho proposal now made would prevent it being said that anything was burked. Cr Lysnar asked wore they going to bring an engineer thore and turn him adrift to find schcmos. Cr Kennedy : Ridiculous ! Cr Lysnar: It is ridiculous—exactly. Cr Konnedy: Nonsense 1 You are the only one that would dream of such a thing. Cr Lysnar said his suggestion was for a committee to report prior to asking an enginoer to examine the source. Cr Miller said that CrLysuar was^trans-

grossing all rules of debate. Cr Lysnar said he had not gone so far as Cr Kennedy, who Baid misleading figures had been given. Cr Miller: He was making a speech. Cr Kennedy : I spoke the truth, Cr Lysnar: If any Councillor objected to those figures why does not tho Council tell the ratepayers fairly and honestly what is the truth ?

The Mayor : Keep to the subject. Mr Lysnar said he would, but other Councillors wero putting him from it. If he had been saying harsh things Cr Kennedy had been saying harsher. After soma discussion as to the engineer to be asked, Cr Lysnar said it was absurd for Mr Perham to givo an opinion as to the ground when he had not tested it. Then controversy set in as to whether the Council had decided against a pumping schemo. Cr Kennedy emphatically stated that the Council had not so decided. Cr Johnston had said ho believed there was a resolution to that effect. Cr Lysnar said at any rate Councillors had expressed their opinion against a pumping Bcheme. After a brisk dialogue on the proceedings of the past Cr Whinray gave it another turn by saying that it was simply splitting straws, Cr Kennedy said that Cr Lysnar was making idlo statements, and the Mayor absolutely denied having in any way influenced Mr Mestayer. Mr Miller suggested that they should let bygones bo bygones, and seek to do something for tho future. Cr Lysnar said directly they proposed something the other Councillors blocked it. Cr Miller said that thoy did not want amateur schemes. Cr Kennedy : Thore is always one man on the jury.

Cr Lysnar : Tho ratepayers are the jury in this case.

Cr Somervell: You are the judge ? Cr Lysnar : I am not. Cr Somervell : You are imputing motives. I deny them. Why don’t you back down like a man ?

Cr Lysnar : It is for the opponents to show something better, .and thoy • are blocking us. You are running in tho team. You aro in harness with it. Cr Somervell: lam not. As long as I stand up and speak honestly I will oppose you as long as you stand there making misstatements and telling lies. Has not the Mayor reproved you over and over again for stating things that are not correct ? The Mayor : Order. Cr Lysnar: Cr Kennedy states that what I say is not correct. Cr Kennedy : That is so. Cr Lysnar was replying, when the Mayor interposed, and said that Councillors mu3t maintain order or ho would leave,the chair. Cr Somervell: Quite right, too. Cr Lysnar : We suggest that a committee be set up. Cr Kennedy said that all tho committee proposed to do had been done ton years ago.

The amendment was carried, Crs Lysnar and Whinray opposing it. Discussion then took place as to tho engineer to be asked to report. Cr Whinray favored Mr Reynolds, and Cr Lysnar thought they might ask Mr Hay. The Mayor said he would leave that an open question. He had mentioned Mr Metcalfe because he was near at hand—Auckland—and was an engineer of high repute.

It was agreed to substitute the name of Mr Hay, The Mayor: Unanimous for once. Cr Kennedy: Hurrah 1 Cr Whinray said the Council had taken undue umbrage, and seemed unworthy of confidence

Cr Kennedy: That is the old note wo have to face, “ unworthy of connfidence.” Cr Whinray said he had not intended to bring up debatable matter, Cr Lysnar suggested a committee be set up and the Council took umbrage. They had acted for what they believed to be tho best interests of the Council. They had desired that the schemes should be investigated, and had taken exception to what they considered would bo a failure. He had no intention of raising any debatable matter.

Cr Lysnar : Same^iero. Cr Whinray, continuing, said tho Council were throwing a bomb in tho camp with the intention of raising a discussion, if the Council had honestly had these places investigated -The Mayor: There is no use reviewing the dead past. Cr Whinray : You have been reviewing it. lam dealing with the future, but referring to the dead past so as to avoid the quicksands in the future. He did not mtend to reply to attacks, not even to the Herald. (Laughter.) The latter part of the motion contained a slight. The Mayor ; Oh, nothing of the kind. Council then went on to deal with other business.

In the course of tho discussion Cr Lysnar sail Mr Reynolds was coming shortly to report on Waimata, as previously stated.

A large eel, weighing 261 b, was caught in the Kurupuni Greek, Wairarapa, the other morning, by a party of Maoris,