PATUTAHI QUARRY.

Gisborne Times, Volume VIII, Issue 515, 30 August 1902, Page 3

PATUTAHI QUARRY.

QUESTION BETWEEN COUNCIL AND LOAD BOARD.

At the meeting of the County Council yesterday, considerable time v/a.s taken up in discussing the points at issue between the Council and the Patutahi Pioad Board in connection with the Patntahi quarry. Tho Chairman explained that it had been decided to leave tho question to the •solicitors representing tho Board and I Council, and stated that iUr Deßautour would wait on the Council that day and explain the position. Tho Clerk said the road to tho quarry had not been proclaimed a County road. Cr Mossman said the Patutahi Board took up the present posh" ;i- hi the matter because they considered the Council had acted unfairly in not taking over tho road to the quarry, which they contended had boon a valuable asset to tho Council. I Later on, Mr BeLautour waited on the Council, and, after tin-Clerk had read a letter from Mr Ohrisp (the Board’s so- - Hoi tor), explained the position. In 1899. ' the two local bodies bad arrived at an agreement between themselves to exchange the quarry. The understanding was that tl;e Council take over the quarry, work it, form and keep in repair tho road into it, ■"el draw the rents. An attempt had been made to put the agreement in writing, but the then solicitor to tho Board had taken exception to certain clauses, and the agreement had never been legally ratified. Since then, the quarry had been

worked b.y the Couucil, which raised a Joan for the purpose. Everything the ! Council had so far done was at the reguest and on the initiation of the l’atutuhi Road Board. It was obvious the Board was pressing the Council. If the Council wished to get rid of tho liability, as Mr Chrisp suggested, an Act would bo roquired; but ho failed to see why the original Act should not bo proceeded with. A mistake had been made in gazetting tho reserve; it had been gazetted as a gravcl-roservo, and he understood it was a quarry. The Chairman asked if thero was anything illegal in tho original agreement. Mr DeLautour said that when two parties entered into an agreement, though it might not be strictly legal, neithor party could terminate tho compact without indemnifying tho othor for liabilities in-

curred in the carrying out of the agreement. Cr Mossman asked what was the position taken up by tko Board with regard to taking metal from the quarry. Cr Tombleson : They expressed a willingness to pay. Mr DeLautour: Can they do that ? Cr Cooper: Wo understood they could do it.

Mr DeLautour : It is a littlo difficult to expoct Government to carry out an exchange if the parties are not agreed as to the position. Cr Tombleson : We pay interest out of royalties. Is a Eoad Board on a different footing ?

Mr DeLautour: But could they pay this interest out of royalties ? They have no more right to use their royalties to pay your debt than to pay me, for instance. In reply to Or Tombleson, Mr DeLautour said, as at present advised, ho did not see how it could be done. Mr Chrisp had s '

ipoken of the creditors. Who were tho creditors for the loan ?

The County Clerk: Tbo Government. Mr Do Lautour: It is possible the Government might advance a similar sum to them and roleaso you. My present point is, if you agree to this, you agree to it only on a legal indemnity being possible. Cr Graham : That they stand in a position in which wo do now ?

Mr DeLautour: If they do not, then something else must bo done. Cr Tombleson said that they did not ask the Council to do anything else. At a meeting with these gentlemen they had gone into the matter, and it was understood that the two solicitors were to confer and whittle things down, and report to the bodies. Mr DeLautour : Tho thing came to me when I was in Wellington. I saw Mr Carroll and arranged with him to meet the two bodies here with or wiuhout their solicitors. An appointment was mado for five o’clock, which I was available for, but it went off. Cr Tombleson: It was considered a matter that Mr Carroll need not be troubled about. Mr DeLautour: Ho thought, and I also thought, that his friendly intervention in tho matter might havo been of material uso and tho Act might havo gone through. Cr Tombleson : AVhich Act ? Mr DeLautour: Tho Act dealing with these things since 1892. Cr Mossman: Why was it not put through ?

Mr, DeLautour: There had been no exchange enabling Act passed for two or three years. All these sort of things are collected and put into one Act. Cr Mossman: It is not against tho rules for local bodies to exchange ? Mr DeLautour: No. Theso things are done constantly, but Government would not introduce an Act in one caso.

Cr Tombleson : It was not suggested by Government that thoy could not divest themselves of that quarry '? Mr DeLautour: No. But thoy would not act without consent.

Cr Tombleson : Except by mutual con’ sent.

Mr DeLautour: Cortainly. They require mutual consent. Cr Tombleson : In this case the mutual consent has disappeared. Cr Mossman : It was thore at the time. Mr DeLautour: If it had been done at the timo there would have been no difficulty. Cr Mossman said ho believed that at the timo the Road Board had agreed to tho exchange, and the Council had agreed to take over that portion of tho road now made out of the loan, and the interest' on that loan is paid by certain royalties.

Mr DeLautour said that tho present proposition was to tako these revenues away from the Council. Thoy might only mean the balance in hand and future rents, but it was put wider than that in tho letter.

Cr Mossman : That road has not been taken over by tho Council ? Mr DeLautour: I do not know. I thought it would have been as tho Council has spent its money on it. Cr Mossman : The Road Board have had no stone out of tho quarry, and do not want it.

Cr Tombleson : Thonwhat do thoy want tho quarry for ? Cr Mossman : Ido not know. It is a great mistake altogether. I think Cr Graham could throw ruoro light on the subject than myself. Cr Graham: You have had all the information from Mr DeLautour. He has stated it quite clearly. Mr DeLautour: I never hoard a word about trouble in this matter until last year, when there(was some threat to tako possession of the quarry and I was written to about it. That being an open ineoting he did not want to give legal opinions. Although an agreement might on its face bo ultra vires, it did not follow that any loss tho Council had sustained would not be reimbursed. Ho knew that it was a very common idea that a local body could say in the event of an agreement being ultra vires they had made a mistake and were not liable.

The Chairman said that this agreement had to be given legal effect to. Mr DeLautour: Both parties knew it was not strictly legal, but it was considered to be for the benefit of both parties and of the whole district, and tho courso that was pursued was taken by the advice of the Boad Board’s solicitor and acquiesced in reluctantly by myself. It docs seem hard now to say, “ Wo” will undo all we have done and make you pay half costs.” The Council should make up its mind to adhere to its position, or that it should bo put in a position similar to that which it occupied at first. Cr Cooper : We had better leave it to Mr Chrisp and Mr DeLautour to confer and seo what can bo done.

Mr DeLautour said they should arrange first as to whether they would keep to the present position, or ajk to bo put in tho position they occupied beforo taking tho quarry over. Cr Mossman : Havo other bodies the right to take stone from a public quarry like'that? A'r DeLautour said that was rather a difficult question. As a “ quarry ” it really did not belong to anyone. It was an urea vested in tho Boad Board for

gravel. Cr Mossman : If it is the Council’s or Board’s quarry can any other body take stono at more than it would cost to bring it out ? Mr DeLautour said that in an action recently brought it was held that a local body could sell the surplus of stone that arose in tho ordinary working of a quarry, but they could not use the quarry to make profit out of it. Because they had done that to somo extent they were not given their costs. There was another point as to whether a local body could do .more with a quarry than use it for its own requirements.

Cr Mossman : Then any local body can go in and get metal ? Mr DeLautour would not encourage that idea, saying that they might be trespassers. It was agreed that an effort should be mado by the solicitors to come to some arrangement on the basis suggested by Mr DeLautour.