AMALGAMATION PROPOSALS.

Gisborne Times, Volume VI, Issue 185, 13 August 1901, Page 3

AMALGAMATION PROPOSALS.

\ LIVELY MEETING AT WHATAU POKO.

1 The adjourned meeting of Whataupoko ratepayers was held last night, Mr Matthews presiding. The Chairman opened the meeting, and Messrs Maunsell and Yardley spoke in support of the amendment by Mr Sievwright, to the effect that the proposal should be deferred. They contended that things would be more satisfactory under present conditions. Mr W. Douglas Lysnar replied, making a speech warmly in favor of amalgamation. He read a letter from the Board's solicitors to the Chairman, stating that in

giving the opinion quoted at the previous meeting they overlooked a clause in the Act. He further read the opinion of Mr DeLautour, which he said disposed of all the legal points set up as against amalgamation. Mr Sandlant raised a point as to rating for water supplv, etc. Mr Lysnar said that Mr Sandlant was being misled by the old Act, against which many people bumped their heads. Mr Sievwright asked what the position would be if no part were defined. Mr Lysnar : They must define it. The Chairman: What about the Eating Act of 160-1 ?

Mr Lysnar said that he wished to answer one at a time. They should take them in due course. Then ensued an interesting dialogue, Mr Lysnar explaining the legal position. He quoted from Mr BeLautour’s opinion, and also from the Act, claiming that it was an answer to both Messrs Sandlant andSievv/right. Mr Sandlant said that if they joined the borough they were to all intents and purposes the borough. Mr HeLautour was not clear on the point raised. Mr Lysnar said ho had got another opinion on that point ; Mr Sandlant retorted that Mr HeLautour threw a doubt on the matter; he went by his own common sense. Mr Lysnar said he hoped they all had common sense. Mr Sandlant persisted that what he had said would he found to be right by the Act. An interesting duel then ensued between Mr Sandlant and Mr Lysnar as to what the Act meant, Mr Sandlant holding to his opinion, while Mr Stafford interjected that the Act was quite clear. Mr Lysnar said that Acts of Parliament were not always plain, but fortunately it was plain in this case. He had just finished reading the sections and opinions, when Mr Sandlant interjected that was just the stage where the trouble would come in. Mr Lysnar said that if Councillors did an illegal thing they would be hold personally responsible. Mr Lrown : They would want to have broad shoulders and a very deep purse. (Laughter.) Mr Lysnar referred to the case of the late John Baldwin suing the Harbor Board. The Chairman: Was

lie not defeated ? Mr Lysnar: Yes, and orderod to pay costs. Mr Yard Icy gave riso to another line of discussion by referring to the action of Mr Tim O Connor against the Harbor Board. Mr Lysnar misunderstood the interjection, and was proceeding to refer to Sir John Coodd’s harbor scheme, when Mr Yard ley said that he was referring to Tim O Connor; ho had not been a member of the Board at tho time, but had to help to pay for that. Mr Lysnar said that that was on quite a different basis; continuing he asked what were Acts of Parliament for? —“ To jumble people,’’ quickly retorted Mr Sandlant, amidst laughter. Mr Lysnar smilingly admitted that all Acts were not clear, but he claimed that in this case the Act was very clear, and he again quoted the sections and went fully into the subject. The Chairman said ho did not wish to interrupt, but that was perhaps a good time to ask a couple of questions. Would Mr Lysnar, as a Councillor, vote for the Waihirere water supply scheme as recom-

mended by Mr Mestayer? Mr Lysnar : No, certainly not. The Chairman : Will you vote for his scheme of drainage ? Mr Lysnar : Certainly not. I am directly opposed to both, lie has got the wrong scheme in Waihirere, and the wrong scheme in the Shone system. In the course of further remarks ho described the scheme as a rotten scheme. The Chairman : Would you vote for a Wuiumta scheme ? Mr Lunn : Is this anything to do with the subject *?

Captain Ferris : It is drifting tvway. Mr Lysnar: It is drifting away, but the Chairman put it, and it is no difficulty to 1110, as my mind is made up. The Chairman : We arc liorc to elucidate matters, and get as .much informalion us we can.

In reply to Mr Brown, Mr Lvsnar said that the distance of a Waimuta source would be three miles, and in reply to Mr Yardley he said that lie favored Waimata with a "filtration bed. lie would place an artesian source first, as they could get that tested for nothing. In reply to Mr I’alairet, he said that it would gravitate high enough to till pipes up to 30ft; it" would "do for the upper storey of the Masonic Hotel, but an engine would be required to give extra presure for lire prevention. The water supply subject was giving riso to many interjections when Mr .‘Sievwright remarked that they would never get the business finished if all these questions were to bo gone into. The Chairman said he must allow a lot of latitude, to which one ratepayer interjected. '■ It is not necessary,” while another retorted, “ We are hero to loam.” Mr Lysnar returned to the legal points, and was again giving a careful explanation, when Mr Taylor started the discussion of in another direction by interjecting that the ratepayers would havo to pay on a water supply loan, though perhaps not tho service rate, which Mr Lysnar pointed out was an erroneous idea, lie was referring to the rate paid by Mr O'Meara, whose property, he said, had to pay the heaviest rate in the borough for a residence. Mr E. Matthews said that tho extra rate would be sufficient to purchase a couple of tanks every year.

As some people still seemed sceptical on the legal points, Mr Lysnar said that if their opinion would prevail instead of Acts of Tarliament he could not help that, and after one or two replies to Mr E. Matthews about the Rating Act, Mr Lysnar said some people were like tho chairman, they bumped their heads against points, and believed they had discovered something against amalgamation.

This thrust roused up the Chairman. " We are all not learned Portias like Mr Lvsnar," said lie. " No. not as to Acts of Parliament, but you apparently believe you are,” said Mr Lysnar.

Didn't you set your opinion against Mr Mestayor?” asked the Chairman. Mr Lysnar : No. The Chairman : You have. Mr Lysnar said that it was Mr Mestayer's geological knowledge of the district that lie questioned. The Chairman : Are you a geologist ? Mr Lvsnar: No. but I have paid for

my experience. Some one raised a laugh by asking if the experience was in sheep dips, and Mr Lvsnar said it was not in that, but it had eost him £2-30 for fences destroyed through one night's rain. Mr Griffon: But what has that got to do with amalgamation? (Laughter.) Mr Lysnar said that the Chairman had raised the point. Mr Stafford: Wo are not here to quarrel. \\ e are here to do business. (Hear, hear.) Mr Lysnar was replying to Mr Sicvwright's letter in the Times, but Mr Sievwriglit claiming the right of reply if this were gone into, it was ruled out of order to introduce fresh matter. Ho made a vigorous reply to points raised by Mr Sievwright at the previous meeting, and said if that gentleman had not been able to go into the figures properly he should uot seek to raise doubts in the mind of others. The Local Authorities Bill would force them into the county.

‘‘No! no!" interjected Mr Sievwright. “ I say yes," said Mr Lysnar. '‘Y’ou are utterly wrong—look at the Bill,” retorted Mr Sievwright. “ I challenge you to prove it. and I will give £o to the Hospital if you can show it," and Mr Sievwright was invited to stake a fiver, but replied that he was not a betting man. After further dialogue, in which many people joined, Mr Lysnar dealt with the Chairman, and he did not do it gently, saying that the Chair-

man had made deliberate attempts to mislead them in regard to the by-laws and harbor rates. The Chairman explained what he had meant, but Mr Lysnar did not spare the lash of criticism. As to Mr Stafford's statement, continued Mr Lysnar, that figures would prove anything he claimed that those adduced were correct. He admitted that the figures showed a ten per cent, basis, but pointed out that there had been no adjustment of the capital value since 1597. The Borough Council rated on the rental value, and had no necessity to look to capital values. The marc’s nest had been raised by l the secretary of the Harbor Board, and had been followed up by others who did not understand it. It was a bogey held up because it was thought there was a loophole there. In reply to Mr Stafford, Mr Lysnar said that the figures worked out, such as Mr O’Meara’s, was at 6 per cent. Mr Stafford said that gave 4 per cent, in favor of Mr Lvsnar’s contention.

In reply to Mr Palairet, Mr Lysnar said that the general rate could not be more—they were now rated up to the hilt. What had starved the borough revenue was the jEGOO for the purchase of the Waikanae property. If they went into the borough they could not be charged more, and their rate would probably’ fall. He asked them not to listen to the wretched twaddle about higher rating. The speaker went on to deal with the points raised by Other speakers. As to Mr McLeod’s reference to sanitation, Mr Lysnar, amidst laughter, said that Mr McLeod was now asking for an increase of salary ; that was one of the little offices that could be done away with,

and was a sample of how by disbursing less they would bo getting more. Mr Brown : Take a shilling off the workmen and put eighteenpenee on the clerk. (Laughter.) Mr Lysnar said no, that would not be so. Then he went on to refer to the bridges, saying that they could never expect satisfaction in that respect until they joined the borough. If they got amalgamation he would guarantee within six months to have a movement going for an extra bridge across by the hospital, one across the Waimata, and the widening of the present bridge, which would be done

for fis Gd iii the £OOO, which no one would object to. Mr Lysnar wound up with a vigorous peroration, dealing strongly with the chairman. Let them unite, he said, and prosper. They had already, from Saturday at 1 p.m., got most of the Haiti people’s signatures in favor of amalgamation, and there would be very few residents who would not sign it. Whataupoko would, he was sure, favor it, and he warmly urged all to support it. (Applauso.)

Tho Chairman said that ho had been Chairman of tho Board for over four years, while Mr Lysnar was a comparatively new man, and none of "them would say that ho (Mr Matthews) had misled them. lie credited Mr Lysnar with acting conscientiously, and said he would

not reply in the same strain as Mr Lysnar had gone upon.—(Applauso.) After alluding to tho differences between lawyers’ opinions, tho Chairman went on to say that tho Haiti people taking a leading interest in amalgamation had a very small interest there. Mr Lysnar had not read Mr DeLautour’s opinion as to the bye-laws being in force. [Mr Lysnar :It is in the opinion there.] Continuing, £ho Chairman said that the bye-laws could only be suspended by resolution of the Council. | Captain Ferris said that there was a scheme to work upon.] The speaker referred to the bad state of the roads of the borough ; next year the road board would have L4OO to spend on roads —(applause)—and it only cost them about S per cent, to spend it. Could the borough show less '? They could do away with the county rate any time they liked to form a borough. Making a personal ex-

planation, the Chairman said that at tho conference he had said he would at the public meeting give tho disadvantages beeauso the committee would not put them down. Mr Lysnar had all through acted as a partisan instead of assisting to give both sides. They had boon told they would be an aggregate of asses if they did not go in for amalgamation. As a ratepayer lie would say pause before seeking amalgamation. (Applause.) Tho door would always be open to them, as when the time was ripe they could go in harmoniously, having all the information before them.

The amendment was then put. The show of hands was declared to be 20 for

ami 8 against. Mr Lunn did not consider that a representative meeting, and amid cries of “ question ” said he thought a better meeting could be held in town than in “ this out-of-the-way place.” There was no seconder to the amendment, and Mr Siovwright’s was left to stand as the accepted motion. Mr Lysnar then explained that tho meeting was only to discuss the matter. He did not think any good would bo done by another meeting. Taeir signatures to the petition would be the deciding point. The Chairman said that these against could get up a counter petition, as he understood was being done on Kaiti. Mr Sievwright said one point that had struck him was there appeared to be no movement in the borough in favor of amalgamation. The Chairman : They don’t want it. Mr Lysnar : It is more in our interest than in theirs. Mr Stafford moved a vote of thanks to Mr Lysnar, whom he warmly complimented for the trouble he had taken, and the able way in which ho had set tho position before them. Mr Orr seconded the motion, and complimented Mr Lysnar on the way ho had placed matters beforo them. It would, Mr Orr urged, be much better for them to join tho borough than to be left in the County by the proposed Act.

The Chairman, in putting the motion, also spoke highly of the way in which Mr Lysnar had put the facts and figures before them. The only fault ho found was that Mr Lysnar was apt to color the statements with his own ideas. The motion was carried with warm applause. In reply, Mr Lysnar said that if he had tinctured what ho had said by personal opinions it was not from want of respect, but because ho was getting wearied of the oft-repeated iteration of what seemed to him facts that should be quite clear. The meeting then concluded with a hearty vote of thanks to tho Chairman.