WATER AND DRAINAGE.

Gisborne Times, Volume VI, Issue 147, 3 July 1901, Page 2

WATER AND DRAINAGE.

DISCUSSED BY THE COUNCIL.

A special meeting of the Council was held last night to '’onsider the subjects of water and drain There were present : The Mayor (C Jownley), and Crs Kennedy, Hard! Morrison, Bright, Lysnar, Jones, Whi Leave i f absence was granted Cr Miller, w'. : is out of the district. The Mayor explained the object of the meeting, stating that the first report was on water. In regard to the question raised by Mr Lysnar, ho had interviewed Mr Mestayer, who replied that he thought the dam would hold, that he had sufficient in his contingencies to make necessary provision ; he had made no provision for filtering, believing that the ti-tree and bush would bo sufficient. As to bringing the mains over the bridge that, he said, was a question of detail. “ There is," he said in regard to Waihirore, “ no other place from which so good and pure a system can bo obtained.” In regard to drainage he stated that he would not have anything to do with any other system but the Shone system in regard to Gisborne, which he strongly recommended. Continuing, the Mayor said that to put the matter fairly jbeforc the Council he would move : “ That this Council proceed to take all necessary steps to supply Gisborne with water from Waihirore on the lines of Mr Mestayer’s report, with such modifications as the Council may deem necessary, and that a committee bo set up to report upon the same to the Council at an early date.” He had gone carefully into the matter, and believed that modifications could be made that would bring the thing more within their means. Mr Mestayer practically approved of Mr Boylau’s scheme on a more extensive scale. All the engineering evidence was in favor of Waihirore.' Ho would give it all the support ho could. He had been doubtful about the quantity, but in view of Mr Mestayor’s report ho was satisfied on that point. If they could get a sufficient supply for ten or fifteen years that would suit thorn as being within their limits. They had no need to provide for eternity, and should not strangle themselves to provide a supply for people many years to come. Mr Mestayer was very confident as to the geological phase of the question. Cr Harding seconded the motion. All the opinions, he said, had coma down tc the one thing, Waihirore., They had decided to get the best engineering advice in New Zoaland ; they had brought Mi Mestayer hero as one of the most up-to-date, and must follow out his report ii ■ they intended to do anything. They musl all agree that a water-supply was noeos sary. Cr Lysnar said that the points ho hac raised had not boon answered as satis factorily as the Mayor thought. He rc gretted that Mr Mestayer had not though' it worth while to make a reply in writing The Mayor said that after receiving Ci Lysnar’s telegram, he had had no op portunity to again see Mr Mestayer. Cr Lysnar said that really Mr Mestayei had made no answer, and they wore non driven to study their own country withou engineering aid. Ho was not biassed against Waihirore because he had recoin mended Mangarueka. The two thing: they must consider was that of a sufficien supply and of finances, and he did no care what the source was. He though Waimata had been too lightly overlooked The Mayor: Are you going to main an amendment in favor of anothei source ? Cr Lysnar said he was speaking agains the motion. Engineering opinion hac shown that they could get a scheme a Waimata for 1117,000, and what they tliei had to consider was pumping and filtru tion. An export had told him that watei running over an open river bed like Wai mata would purify itself with every mile He would support such a source, bu: would first let Mr Brett have a trial foi an artesian supply, which would cost then: nothing. He would place an artesiar scheme first, Waimata second, Mangaruoka third. He believed that the Council would carry the Waihirerc scheme, but he would oppose il inside and outside of the Council. They should satisfy themselves that the scheme was sound, and bring their commousonsc • to bear on it. In regard to drainage, he t believed some Councillors who would accept Mr Mestayer’s opinion on water, would not accept his opinion on drainage. The Mayor: That is not before us now. Continuing, Cr Lysnar referred to the failure of the breakwater, to show that amateur engineers should have some consideration. The Mayor: Surely the breakwater is not before us ? Cr Morrison : It was because of amateur engineering that the breakwater trouble arose. Cr Lysnar said they know the porous nature of the soil of tho district. Mr Mestayor had simply tested tho foundation for the dam ; ho had not tested whore the reservoir was to go. There was no evidence to show that tho geological naturo of Waihirerc was different to that of any other part of tho district. Not ten chains along tho coast could bo found to run evenly. Tho strata was all broken, and would not hold water. Everything wont to show that there was the same formation at Waihirore. Ho referred to tho largo slip on the Waimata ; let Councillors see that slip for themselves ; they could see huge boulders nearly the size of the room that had come down there. There was nothing solid in the geological formation. Tho earth would absorb the water when the dam was mado ; tho stream showed that tho water did not come over tho rooks but percolated throught it and came out below. The result would bo that the locality would become like a sponge, or a spewing slip which would come away slip by slip, a rotten structure, and instead of water they would get silt. Tho Waihirore, he stated, was the heel of the watershed of thd district. He produced a map of tho district, and contended ' that throughout there was liability to slips, with soakage ! and percolation through the soil. But even assuming he was wrong there was an alternative reason that would justify the rejection of the scheme. In Mestayer’s calculations he added 2o per cent, to the rainfall recorded, on account of its height. Mr Boylan estimated that only ten per cent, of the rainfall there would be available for consumption, 90per cont. being allowed for absorption ; those who tried the country would know that Mr Boylan was correct and Mr Mestayer wroii". The latter did not allow for a nin<rl n f Dercolation and

ground. They had plenty of experience of dams being carried away in creeks—none i of them would hold; but that did not apply to Waihirere, as the dam would bo close to the catchment area. The point as to absorption should also be considered. •He was much in earnost about the necessity for a water supply, and he could not think of any other place but the Waihirere for a scheme. They had set their faces against a pumping ’scheme. They must go into the matter carefully, and satisfy the ratepayers. It was too important a matter for them to shelve, and to go on pigeonholing schemes. The motion was noncommittal, but would set the ball rolling. They should not reject the scheme when they could not see anything else to take its place. Cr Bright said that the ratepayers who had urged caution were wise ; tho works had beon set down at ,£50,000, but they found from ono of the most eminent engineers in New Zealand that tho cost of the main scheme would about come to the amount. Tho questions raised by Cr Lysnar must have occurred to Mr Mestayer. There 'were two points to go on, purity and quantity, and he would be prepared to trust the man of experience ; he did not see how as laymen they could do otherwise than accept or reject tho scheme as a whole. As to drainage, they could not dissever the question in discussion, but they must, as prudent business men, say what amount of rates would be required. Ho estimated that the complete scheme would amount to .£IOO,OOO, a trido over 3s in the £. There would bo some little deduction, but ho did not think they could reckon on less than I Is Od for a gonoral rate and os for a special rate. Could they recommend that to the ratepayers ? Ho was not opposing the scheme ; he heartily agreed as to its necessity, but it was a vital point as to whether they could recommend that. They had at tho preceding meeting had an offer from Mr lirett to lay beforo the Council a system of artesian boring, which of course Mr Mestayer had not gone into. Ho moved as an amendment that tho eommitteo at the same time consider the proposal by Mr Brett. Cr Harding : Wo have had too many experiments. Cr Bright : It will cost you nothing. Cr Harding : It may cost us a big loss of time. Cr Lysnar suggested that Waihirere bo left out of the motion, an idea which was scouted. Cr Lysnar: Then you won’t consider Mr Brett’s offer ? Cr Harding : Wo won’t have this ono shelved. Cr Whinray said the matter was a very serious ono to the Council. He did not pretend to bo an amateur engineer, but ho did claim to have some eommonsenso. It was an impossibility to havo a dam at Waihiroro unless it was of concrete. The wholo quostion was enshrouded in mystery. A death blow had been given to tho report when it was admitted that no provision had beon made for a rubbled reservoir. Tho whole hill was a mass of fissures, and thoro was a danger that the wholo dam would break away and sweep Parimanihi into the Big lvivcr. They should lot the matter stand until they knew what there was in tho proposed artesian scheme. Mr Mestayor’s suggestion that they should retain tanks damned the whole scheme. They could easily, if they took such a scheme as that, arrango for a catchment on public buildings in tho town, and could, to go further, arrange for a reservoir on one of tho hills. He would at least like to seo the scheme hung up until Mr Brett’s proposal was dealt with. Cr Jones strongly supported the resolution. If tho town was to progress it must, he said, havo water and drainage, but from what he could see, the water scheme seemed as far away as over. So soon as they got to the surface something occurred to drivo it away. Ho was anxious to see Gisborne placed on the samiVlevel as other towns of the same size, and with that object in view had warmly supported the suggestion to obtain the best engineering advice that they possibly could upon the questions of water and drainage. The report furnished by Mr Mestayer bad been carefully prepared, and all contingencies seemed to have been provided for, yet they wore, as had always been the the ease, met with objections. The Objection raised by Mr Lysnar was not a new one, as Mr Lysnar had mentioned it to him long beforo Mr Mestayer came to Gisborne to report. Tho objection had been considered and dismissed by engineers who had previously reported on a water scheme for Gisborne. Mr Mestayer was not the first engineer to recommend Waihirere, as it had beon selected by many others, including Messrs Drummond, Tattley.jlloynolds, and Brown, and Mr Boylan also favorod it, and referred to it as being suitable for a reservoir. He (Mr Jones) was prepared to stand by Mr Mestayor’s opinion, and that gentleman stated that the conditions were so distinctly in favor of Waihirere that ho had no hesitation in recommending it. The only question for tho Council to consider was with regard to tho cost of the scheme, and the Mayor’s suggestion that a eommitteo should bo sot up seemed to bo the right one. Mr Mestayer had offered them three prices, and there could bo a saving in many respects. He thought that instead of raising tho rates threepence a short time back they might have kept it for tho water supply. Ho considered that it was the duty of the Council to place the matter in as concrete a form as possible, so that tho ratepayers could the more easily decide the question. With a little sacrifice on their own part they could bring tho schcmo well within the means of tho place, and the sooner it was done tho better it would bo for Gisborne. They had been playing with tho thing since 18S1, and as far as he could seo it was going to again fall through. Ho could seo forces already at work which wero going to block it, and he was sorry that such was the case. They ought, ho thought, to bo on a level with some of the other towns that wore not nearly so important as their own, but they could not bo until Gisborne had water and drainage. He did not believe in artesian water as far as Gisborne was concerned, for ho was sure that it would not be a Success.' ' ' ' ’ ’ Cr Lysnar moved an amendment to tho effect that no steps should be taken to adopt the "Waihirere scheme until further information was acquired. He contended that it was no use setting up a committee if they intended that evening to adopt Waihirere, Cr Kennedy : You are only wasting time. AVe cannot adopt it ; that has to I be loft to tho ratepayers. Cr Lysnar : A’ou will make quicker progress if this thing is fairly considered before you adopt it. I Cr ,iavo boon consider- J I ing it for ton years. j ,Cr Lysnar : Xou have never considered this’before—riot such a proposal as this." Cr Harding : It’ is true we’never had I such an eloquent and professional man as we have in you. Cr Lysnar; AVhothor eloquent or not, I, like Mr AVhinray, believe I have a little common sense. I would not believe when I read it that Mr Mestayer proposed to hold this water in a dam. This Council questioned it, and said that it was a reservoir. Cr Jones: A\ T e say that they use the terms “ dam ” and “ reservoir ” as synonyms. Cr Lysnar: I do not think that it is right that any Councillor should speak in the manner Cr Harding has done. Whether we say it eloquently or not, we are here to consider this matter. lie speaks of amateur engineers Cr Kennedy : I rise to a point of order. ' It is now half-past nine, and wo shall be here all night. Cr Lysnar has no right to speak a second time. The Mayor: That is so, Mr Lysnar; you must move your amendment without making a speech. Cr Lysnar: Am I not to bo allowed to reply to questions raised by other speakers. Tho Mayor: No. I Cr Lysnar: I do not wish to question the ruling of the €hair, but I fail to seo why we should be tied down in this way. j AVe are really in committee. This is a very important subject, and there are several matters referring to me which I wish to reply to. Cr AVhinray: The question should not be burked. Cr Lysnar : Cr AVhinray says that the question should not be burked. j Cr AVhinray : Go on with your yarn ; it ]

will bo the quickest way out of it. (Laughter). Or Morrison stated that he had listened very earnestly to the discussion, and had heard nothing to cause him to alter his opinion that they should use all efforts to get a water supply. He supported the Mayor’s motion, and contended that when the matter was gone into by the committee it would not be found to bo as costly as Cr Bright tried to mako out. Cv Jones suggested that the debate should be adjourned until noxt Tuesday evening. Cr AVhinray considered that the whole thing was surrounded with doubt and of a problematical character, and that embraced a good deal. They could not as a community afford to go in for anything that was doubtful. It had not to Ins mind been put beyond that stage. The Mayor: No man can say any more than Mr Mcstayer says here. Cr Lysnar: But why has ho not answered my question '? The Mayor: Perhaps it is itnpos siblo to answer it to your satisfaction. Cr Lysnar: We have not a scratch of a pen from him in regard to the matter. The Mayor : Ho was not asked to answer it in writing. If you want a further report ask the Council to get it, but you will have to pay for it. lam not going to get a report unless I have instructions from tho Council. On a show of hands the amendment was lost, only Ors Lysnar and Whinray voting for it. Then, on the motion of Cr Jones, seconded by Cr. Wb uray, it was agreed to adjourn me debato for a week to allow ot Mr Brett's proposals to come before the Council. Cr Harding was tho only dissentient, saying he had no faith in artesian schemes, and considered the to proposals only moant delay. Cl* Jones said he also was against anything further being done in that way, but ho thought, as .. matter of courtesy, they should allow the proposals to como on and bo dealt with on their merits. The Council then rose. In tho course of remarks made Cr Lysnar said that ho would gladly pay the £'2s ho had promised, or twice that sum, if tho scheme of Mr Mestayer was rejected.