The Prohibition Question.

Feilding Star, Volume XVIII, Issue 64, 12 September 1896, Page 2

The Prohibition Question.

REV. J. COCKER IN REPLY TO MR BAGNALL. The Assembly Rooms were; crowded last evening to hear the Rev. J. Cocker's reply to Mr J. J. Bagnall on the Prohibition question. The Mayor, Mr Walter A. L. Bailey, occupied the chair and introduced the speakers. The Rey. J. Cocker proceeded to explain that he appeared before them that evening because he hadn't an opportunity to reply to Mr Bagnall, at that gentleman's meeting, in support of Mr Isitt. He thanked the Mayor for presiding, in complimentary terms. Mr Cocker then ridiculed Mr Bagtiall's generosity with respect to the advertisement calling the meeting of ratepayers and to an anonymous correspondent, while he admitted that he (,Mr Bagnall) was a gentleman. Mr Cocker held that Mr Bagnall's statements were not altogether correct, inasmuch as he said be would prove every asst-rtiou he made, which he (Mr Cocker) bold had uot been done. With reference to Mr Batmall's denial of the statement by Mr Isitt that the silver tube put into a child's throat bad been sold to purchase drink, this had been publicly stated by a doctor and Mr Isitt had not said what was untrue. Mr Cocker read the quotation from Liebig used by Mr Isitt relative to there not being so much nutriment in beer as in oatmeal, and stated that anyone on reference to tbe book could prove that Mr Isitt had not misquoted. With reference to Mr Bagnall's statement that they would not have Mr Isitt in England, Mr Cocker said tbat Mr Isitt had been offered £500 a year to return there aud lecture on the prohibition question. Mr Cocker contra dieted Mr Bagnall's statement tbat, Mi Isitt had said barmaids were immoral. They were not, their surroundings were impure. Mr Cocker ridiculed Mr Bagnall's assertion that country hotels were properly conducted, stating that in a recent case the, then licensee of the Pemberton Hotel was fined £10 and costs, and he also stated that, in evidence in a recent case in the local court, it was shown that a fight had been arranged in a hotel. He referred to a case against a licensee iv Turakina, saying that Judge Kettle had condemned the vices indulged in in hotels, and that it was no wonder temperance people made an effort to put down driuk. Mr Bagnall had not shown them what was more dirty than the drink traffic, although he said he would. Mr Cocker quoted from a Mr Stagpole, of Hawera, an ex-hotel-keeper, to the effect that the drink traffic degraded a man and tbat he could not be a Christian and a publican at the same time. Mr Cocker also stated that a man at Pahiatua had gone to a hotel with .£6B, and after eight days' drinking was told it was all gone. The man sued the publican arid recovered the money. The result was that tbe same man has since been robbed of his watch and his ears have been cut off. The drink traffic was the most lawless traffic, aud in support of this contention he said that the licensed victuallers in Dunedin had decided not to break the law except when compelled to. Referring to the Coker's Hotel case, he said the counsel for the defence had stated that if other hotels had been watched as closely it would have been found they were worse. In combatting Mr Bagnall's statement that there was no excessive drinking in New Zealand, he said there were 140 prohibition orders against individuals in Christchurch and 18 in Feilding, contending that this proved there was excessive drinking. With reference to the revenue, he argued they (the temperance people) contributed by having to provide for those ruined through drink. A gentleman bad written to the various medical men in tbe colony to try and find out the causes of deaths, with the result that one - fourth had replied, showing 251 deaths had occurred in a quarter of the colony from drink and it was safe to assume tbat 500 deaths occurred in the whole colony. As to solitude being the cause of lunacy in New Zealand, there were 885 women in the asylums in tbe colony, and he did not suppose many of them were there through having to chop bush. The returns gave eleven persons as being in the asylums through solitude and 53 through drink, while the same cause might be attributed to other instances. As to Mr Bagnall's statement that the Bible did not favor Prohibition in tbe commandments, Mr Cocker said that eight of them commenced with " Thou shalt not." A shopkeeper in this town had told him that if the drink traffic was done away with it would pay him (the tradesman) to have an increased tax put on, aa so many of bis bad debts had been caused through drink. Twentyfive per cent of the bad debts in Ash burton were also attributed to the drink traffic. Mr Cocker ridiculed Mr Bagnall's statements tbat those who did not drink alcohol were slow of conception and that tourists would not come to New Zealand ; also, that of" Ignoramus " that one third of the people would leave the colony, contending the people would flock here. Wheu Prohibition was carried in Kansas there were 996,000 people in that State, and five years afterwards thero were 1,500,000, showing that people would flock to a prohibited di-3 trict. Referring to Clutha, he admitted there was sly grog selling, but denied that prohibition was a failure. In Maine, a Prohibition State, there were 661,000 people with £11,124.394 in the savings bank. There were three millions of people in Ohio with seven millions in the bank, and three and a quarter millions in Illinois with four millions in the bank. In Maine the amount of money per head of the population, deposited in the bank was £16 16s ; in Ohio, £1 19s 6d ; and in Illinois, £1 ss. The two latter were drinking states- In Maine there were 68 prisoners to every 100,000 persons, while in the other states there were from 191 to 212. In 1881 prohibition had been carried iv Maine and there had been a decrease of crime in the state as proved by the book on the economical aspect of prohibition in the prohibition states. Of the 97 judges in Kansas, 94 bad declared iv favor of prohibition while the remainder gave qualified answers. In Kansas by closing the saloons, crime bad decreased and the gaols were empty, and this statement was by one of the judges there. In Topeka, judges had expressed the opinion than the loss of the liquor revenue would be more than made good and the taxes were not higher. Before prohibition was carried in Kansas there were from 5000 to 7000 persons in prison, now there were three. Mr Cocker believed that prohibition had como to stay. It was the fate of the social reformers to meet with opposition and to be sneered at, but they worked for God and humanity. In conclusion be moved •' That tbis meeting realising tbe evils of tbe liquor traffic pledges itself to vote "- No License" at the next election." Mr G- Grant, of Palmerston, m seconding tlie motion, said be had not come to attack Mr Bagnall or to defend Mr Isitt, bnt to snpxiort the general principals of the tempurauce cause, as it was not a local one. Its adherents were united, and the whole of the Christian people were falling into line on the question in the name of God and for humanity. Ninety nine per cent of the women io the colony were prepared to vote for Prohibition aud the children were tak. ing au interest ju tbe question. Our public men wera also speaking out in its favor. Mr Bagnall had dove the

temperance Cduse a . re: t c?--l of good by taking the platform as they bad not previously a studied defence to reply to. I The evils of the traffic vastly outweighed 1 the benefit which it gives to the public. It was an evil traffic bfc^ufe it ere-- ted a 1 demand for itself, while all t.ther trades j existed for the demand. They had a j right to interfere as the moral position of the people was affected. The present law was unfair because anything that created a monopoly was wrong and if it was risht anyone should be allewed to sell liquor. It was almost impossible to secure evidence of breaches of tbe , Licensing Act and when the police did ! get any, evidence was brought to nullify j it. The people should be allowed to ' say whether or not they were to have | the traffic in their midst. He contended i that all the hotels at present existing provided far more than the accommoj d ation necessary for the public, and it I was the keen desire to get rich rapidly ' which promoted people to go into the I hotel business. The Rev Mr Drake also spoke to the I motion, condemning the action of ceri tain members of tbe Wellington Licensi ing Bench with respect to the Newtown j Hotel license. He, also, contended that | the drink traffic had a deteriorating effect on those engaged in it. Mr G. Wilks then mounted the plat- * form amidst loud cheers and applause and asked Mr Cocker the question: . •' Seeing that the latest statistics in > reference to the age at death is for tee- , to taller s 51 years and for moderate drinkers 63 years, how can you advocate total abstinence." Mr Cocker replied that if Mr Wilks had referred to the British Medical Journal he would find that statement ; contradicted by Dr Norman Kerr. Mr Wilks asked : "Aa you must allow that insanity is a far worse curse than an occasional drunken spree, and seeing that - less whisky is being drunk in Ireland. and far more tea than formerly, to which ; cause a special Government Commission attributed tbe alarming increase of in- -, sanity in that country, do you not thiok l you would be acting far more in the in- » terests of humanity if you were to ad- [ vocate less tea drinking instead of sup- . porting an unjustifiable attempt on one , section of the community to dictate to another tbat tbey shall drink neither beer -. nor wine, which, when taken in inoderar tion, add tc comfort, health, and years?" | Mr Cocker replied tbat he drank very -, little tea, and that if it caused as much . crime and misery as drink be would atI tempt to prohibit it. . Mr Wilks asked: "Are you of the , opinion that colonial Prohibition would ! not prohibit the manufacture by individuals for private consumption ? If so, would it not lead to wholesale distilling [ of vile bush whisky ; in which case would , it not be better to use rectified whisky as j now produced?" Mr Cocker replied they were fighting i the drink traffic at present, and he could ' not tell what would be done in the future, j Cries of : Answer the question. ■ Mr Wilks asked if Mr Cocker " im- : pressed upon his flock the precepts of [ St Paul, ' Drink no longer water, but I use a little wine for thy stomach's sake i and thine often infirmities, ' and, it so ■ how could he reconcile it to his present j advocacy of prohibition ?*' I Mr Cocker replied that the apostle Paul said he would neither eat meat nor ■ t drink wine if it caused his brother to stumble. He wondered how Mr Wilks ■ didn't read the whole Bible and not one , chapter only. I Mr Wilks asked if Mr Cocker had , ever studied the science of jurisprudence and if not, then was he not a blind man trying to lead other blind people to > make laws of which they could not foresee tbe result ? , Mr Cocker wanted a definition of what was meant. , The motion put by Mr Cocker was then . put to the meeting by the chairman about sixty or seventy hands being held up in I favor, On the chairman asking for a show [ of ban da against the motion none were , held up and the motion declared carried. ) This declaration was the signal for an outburst of dissatisfaction from those in ■ the back of tbe ball, who evidently were _ under the impression they bad not been 5 given an opportunity to vote against the , motion. , Throughout the meeting the proceedings I were very lively, the outbursts of applause ; and dissent, with occasional jocular inter- , jections being frequent, but the meeting could not be described as in any way dis- , orderly, as everything was taken in good , part.