THE SEPRATION DEBATE.

Evening Star, Issue 4203, 16 August 1876, Page 2

THE SEPRATION DEBATE.

Mr Nahe resumed the debate; sayihg fie was surprised that ,so many South Island members should oppose the resolutions that were in the: direction the Sonth Island wanted so often. He believed these disputes between Europeans as to r the forth of Government did a great deal of .harm to the. Maoris. If- the, Government were .afralfl of the jiarm to be worked by Prcrrincea; fiow much more should they have cause to dread the evil of thirty-nine ! Now that only two were proposed* he khow why these resolutions were opposed. ‘He to Sir D, MTCean the credit that there whs no in Waikato, he intended at a future date fb ask for an inquiry into the causes of the wan in the 'Waikato, so as to ascertain whether the lauds of the Maoris w6rt* entitled, ta be confiscated. He thought the Separation of the two islands would have a good-effect upon both by stimulating a spirit of rivalry. The member of the Northern district praised the Government * for their good administration, but he gathered from that that the administration was different in different districts, because he had petitions for the redress of grievances. He thought one reason why the islands should be separated was to prevent the South Island members voting on Native affairs.

Mr Harper regretted that there had been such a waste of time daring the session. He did not look upon the question as a party one, and was prepared to disease it upon its merits, it appeared to him that this was the most inopportune time to bring down such resolutions, because the inevitable confusion that must result from these resolutions being carried must have a most injurious effect upon the credit of the Colony. He looked upon a great many of the arguments introduced into this debate merely as a defence of Provincialism and as being quite out of place. They would have done very well last session, but now Provincialism was a thing of the past. Members objected to Centralism, but the remedy they proposed was worse than the disease. They proposed two Centralising instead of one. The analogies and comparisons introduced during the debate on supporting the resolutions, he thought had no analogy to the case of New Zealand, which was a peculiar one and requires to bo legislated for accordingly. If the North Island was unable to bear its burdens at present, as it appeared to be, what good was it going to do by itself ? How was it going to bear its burden without the assistance of the rest of the Colony ? He could not but think that the separation proposed must inevitably lead to two separate Colonies, which would carry oh their own affairs entirely indepen* dently of each other, and so reduce the in* fluence and character of the Colony. Mr Sharp said that, with reference to the financial aspect of the question, he failed utterly to see what bearing finance had upon the question under discussion at Ml. The hon. gentleman commented upon the action of Sir George Grey when constitutional powers were granted to the Colony. Great mischief had resulted to the Colony from the fact of Sir George Grey going away before he saw the new Constitution in proper working order. He ought to have called the General Assembly into session first, and so prevented the Provincial Councils obtaining the dominant power they assumed, which they never were intended to have, and which ought to have centered in the General Assembly. Touching the Compact of 1856, he held that the Immigration and Public Works Act put an end to that Compact. The land fund should then have been made responsible for. the construction of railways. It was customary to jeer at the poor Provinces, and particularly at Nelson, which was stigmatised as a sleepy hollow, and behind the age. What was the reason T Why, it appeared that to those wbo had much, much should be given. The Province of Nelson had contributed L 551,000 to the consolidated revenue since the public works commenced, and they only received back L 86,953. This was the way they were continually being sacrificed to the larger Provinces, and as long as these powerful Provinces existed, he felt they never would get a particle of justice. Though opposed to the resolutions, he was not in love with the Government measures. He did not approve of these arbitrary counties. The Government ought to simply place the people in the position, or not, as they desired, and it would be found that the people would form themselves into counties naturally, as would best suit the requirements of the country. The machinery should be elastic. He did not think it possible to have Financial Separation without Separation pure and simple. One point that had never been explained to them was in what way was the North Island going' to straggle against any difficulties that might beset her without the assistance of the South. They had been told that the House was nota representative body. He believed that those from the extreme north and south did not fairly represent the people. They only represented Provincialism. He grieved for the fate of,

'■ "■ , r - ■ ' . •,» Kelson asa portion of Previn#®, «|ndaily when such sentimehtsaa tho# ofMr Macandrew were given utferanta to—Mr Macandrew, who considered the interests of Otago superior to those of the Colony, lb was the duty of the House to legislate now so to build up a united Colony worthy of the nation from whom they sprang, end if the present Government would not do it, then et them have another one that would.

Mr Williams opposed the'resolutions as an out-district member. He had more faith in the General Government than in Provincialism. Insinuations had been thrown out that the Colony wason.the eve. of a national, Maori war, but he had no such dread: "One" reason why there should be no Separation was the liability of a war. It appeared to kim that if .any changes were to be made Jn the composition of the Government,'He fdr one would prefer to-ue the Native Minister come from'the'South Island, as he would bomore likely to be free from local prejudice Touching the action of Sir G. Grey in regard tp-Native matters, if he were made Native Minister, to-morrow no man would niohf" bitterly restart having his actions Jnterf ered Within* any way inNativo ‘ , Ho* opposed-the resolutions. Mr Rowe could not understand the cOhduct of the Opposition in not speakiM. They surely must have exhausted*!! them : arguments, or must have.some irresistible ones in reserve. He could faot'hut Iqok upon the resolutions as calculated to injure, the credit of the Colony, and materially retard its growth and development. The non, 7 member for the Thames pointed to the Greek States in support of his but from his recollection he believed 'the curse :<jf Greece utasithat aho had sot a strong central Government—even federal 'lf they liked. ; - Had she that,the gloryof Athens needneyer have passed away. They heard a good djhal about the arrangement come to between-; Auckland and Otago, but he never hoard ai word to show how this agreement was goingto be guaranteed as a pP.rmarmn f, lyrrar)gym ifaf' There had been wild-talk about aeiting tiw*. Customs, f and that such aa event was not aw unlikely. Well, would it not be ad vistas that the Centrid -Government should have S>wer to * suppress any suck step aathatJ ; at could such an attempt be suppressed under such ft sham and a delusion as-that-proposed under: the resolutions T there*been a Government at New York; and another o .at New Orleans, ..the .war. between the. 'Northern ' hud iSdtithtia States.; would not, have ended yefcf c A,good deal bad been made of the impending finan- i jCial difficulties of the Colony, but. that.wM. no matter ..ipr -#orifitatip.iu was made to lay : tbe whole blame, and management- on the appeared to him that , the just as responsible for what was deplored. jHaf was one who had never favored the Boblioi Works policy. When.lt thought .it a great mistake, istill. He-was opposed to borrowing in any, ;shape. Had the Colony struggled} flong :h«af own resources, her progress might have been .slower,' but .it,, would surer, |aud would -have.rreated uppn tm infinitely, •safer. foundation. Whatever might have P&t m to the imempng of borrowed -inoney, he- nmde.'bafd that'r.ai great of would not pay interest for years to coinOr . and would remain a monument of the cxtia*. vagance Of. the Government. Coming to oft iquestion of Separation, his idea of that was .that ' Separation had really taken place 1 ih‘ 1856, and. the-Colony had suffered from that 1 i ever since. He would not call the artaage.meat mdde then a Compact. -It was we ! duty of a Government to administer substantial justice to . eveiy part of e'countrsr alike; but, however fair the arrangement might have been when entered into, it subsequently required re-consideration. Hie ventured to say there never would be satis* faction until justice was done, and there was only one way to do that make one purse for the Colony and the landed estate common property. The, people of the North Island contributed towards the purchase of the South Island, and they had a perfect right to’ enjoy the benefits, derived therefrom. The non. gentleman dilate at considerable length on the disparity , of circumstances in regard to the landed estate between the ■ North and South • Islands. Whatever the members for Otago ought say or do, the day must surely come when that state of things must be altered. He took it as a good omen to hear the member for Tunara say he would next year support Mr Whittaker *s proposals. He regretted constantly hearing about Otago men, Canterbury men, and so on. He hoped to live to hear such phrases fall into disns'e, and members only call themselves New Zealanders. As to the financial position of the Colony, he believed there was nothing for it but to retrench. He had not a word to say about the Civil Service, or about corruption, oraay of those charges so freely made, but having gone carefully over the estimates, he beueyed arrfmmense sum of money could bo saved without impariug the efficiency of' the service in any way. The Native department alone was an ample field for retrenchment. Hitherto the fault of the enormous onpendi* ture of the Colony was caused by the. pressure of the Provincial Governments. . ~ The House rose at 5.30.

The. House resumed at 7.30 p.m. Mr Rowe, continuing his speech against the resolutions, said while he regarded the Counties Bill as a great boon to many parts of the Colony, there were others which it would not be adapted for. Mr Kennedy opposed the resolutions as calculated to injure the credit of the Colony and retard its progress. He defended his district against the charges that it received a larger share of the public expenditure than it was entitled to. He held that making two Provinces would create an exaggerated form of that Provincialism they had taken such trouble to relieve the Colony of. Sir £.. Douglas opposed the resolutions, and went at length into details to show that the charges made against him to the effect that his support of the Government proposals was due to the fact that the Government were about to spend LIO,OOO in his district, were utterly uncalled for and without any foundation in facts. He supported the Government proposals mainly because he recognised in them an attempt to give the country districts au opportunity to manage their own affairs.

. Mr Hamlin supported the resolutions. Ho did not believe any of the promises made by the Government to out-districts would eVer be kept. He wondered how anybody could Elace confidence at all in the Premier, who ad always trimmed his sails to catch panning breezes, and who had advocated Separation with ali his ability in 1866. The hon. gentleman argued that it was ridiculous to attempt to make the same laws govern both Islands—it was like putting the necks of the people in a yoke whether they would or not, Mr Cox spoke at some length against the resolutions, which he compared to dry bones that could not be galvanised into life. He had received several telegrams from his. constituents, who approved of - bin course, while others asked him to support Sir Geo'ge Grey. At the time he was elected he fully informed all his constituents that he was opposed to Sir George Grey on Abolition and Separation, and, having been elected, they knew that he was not how going to vote against his convictions because a few of them asked hirh to do so. He believed his constituency had been tampered with. Mr Barff deprecated the immense waste

(ft time there had been, and that waa still Ukely to be, as was indicated by Sir George Grey** notice of motions. He was in favor of the Government proposals os far as principle was concerned, but waa not prepared to swallow all the details (ft the Counties Bill. Mr Carrington also opposed the resolutions. Mr Fyke made a long and vigorous speech against the resolutions, and defended himself against the charges of inconsistency made against him. He had been cajoled and bnlliea by turns to see if be oould not be fot to vote with the Separadoniste, and efore leaving Dunedin he wae told in the atreet that if ne did not vote with Mr Maoandrew he would be mobbed on Ha retain. All he had ever striven for was a local machinery, so that the people might manage their own affairs without asking the House to administer them. It was the duty of the House to legislate and of the local Governments to administer, and as he held that the proposals of the Government did this he mast give his adhesion to thorn. In referring to some of the charges made against, the Premier he said the day would come when it would be seen how much New Zealand owed t) him. Mr Wakefield moved the adjournment of the debate, having Waived his right of speaking in the afternoon. The House adjourned at 12.40.