THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Evening Star, Issue 3904, 28 August 1875, Page 3

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

[By

(From our own Correspondent.)

Wellington, August 28. Yesterday afternoon, before proceeding to the Orders of the Day,

Sir vieorge Grey threw himself upon the indulgence of the House upon a question partly of privilege, partly of order. Out of respect to the feelings of a very large community—probably 80,000 of Her Majesty's subjects—he trusted the House would indulge him in allowing a few words on so important a question. A high officer of the Government—the agent of the General Government in Hawke's Bay, and also a member for that Province—in his place in the House had, as he was informed, used an expression seriously damaging to the character of Auckland Province. The term was "rotten," and he regretted that such a word should have i been applied to that Province. He had I only seen one report, and that stated j that the lion, member had said the state of Auckland was a public scandal. The Government were rasolving to force upon an unwilling people a Constitution which they certainly abhor, determining, as it were, absolutely to take away the representative institution which they prize. These representative institutions were to be taken from them against the law. and according to his firm conviction, it would be a breach of the Biitish Constitution —(" uh !")—an absolute breach of that Constitution. It would be found that modern constitutional writers agree that there is no instance of any alteration having been made in the Constitution of Great Britain without a dissolution of Parliament taking place, so allowing every eleotor to record as he pleased his vote either in favor or disapproval of the proposed Constitution, and giving him a right to return representatives to the new Parliament, there to express the convictions of the people.—(Opposition cheers.) He did say that when that Province, which had suffered many wrongs at the hands of that House—(cries of " Question")—and at the last moment was compelled to bow down to a majority of the House on a subject of this kind, it was wrong for an officer of th» General Government, and lately a member of the Ministry, to taunt aud aggravate people so oppressed in his belief by applying language of that kind" to them. They might tread upon the head of a worm, but at last it would turn upon its oppressor. If they had in their breasts the feeling of men, people so maligned would make t\mv voices heard. He called'upon the generous sym pathies of the House, upon who respected the feelings of their fellow-men, upon all who cherished within their breasts feelings of selfrespect and pride in their country—he called upon all those actuated by such feelings to support him in his demand that soma apology should be made—not only by the hon. member for Clive, but by the Gp vernment he serves. —(Loud cheers) He said that the latter should, because the Colonial Treasurer in his financial statement made use of language which might well have caused a blush to rise to his cheek. Regarding Auckland Province an apology was due to his own feelings, and to those of the inhabitant* of Auckland, and throughout the Provinces these feelings were sympathised in. Would the Government look at what they were doing? Ho denied that it was in the power of any Ministry, because they are determined themselves to break the law and Constitution, to force others to follow their illegal career: to force himself or others to do whiit u'.n unlawful, or force the inhabitants of Auckland to counsel a policy which was contrary to the law. The sentiments expressed upon the subject by the member for Timaru

The Speaker interrupted. Sir George Grey put himself in order by moving an adjournment. He maintained that he had a right to be heard on the subject—--80,000 people were not to be insulted in th« mauuer they were. He threw himself upon the sympathy of the House whether such a proceeding was not om against which he, a representative of that great community, had a right to protest ? He had a right to expect an for such language, un'l reparation for the most improper and unnecessary aspersions upon the Province of Auckland. Mr Ormond said he could not recollect in what aspect he had used the word "rotten," though he believed he did use it when speaking last night on Auckland Province. Before proceeding further he would like to answer the member for Auckland City West in reference to hi 3 being an officer of the Government. His position was simply this: for a number of years ho had acted as General Government Agent in Hawke's Bay, and. in respect to those matters, of course he had a right to act in accordance with his instructions from the General | Government, but he utterly denied that in his place in that House Ministers had any control over him. He denied that he had in the slightest way intended to apply the term objected to to the people of Auckland. He had intended to refer to the Auckland Provincial Council in having degraded itself by being t>o subservient to the will of the Superintendent. Very strong language was used all round, Mr Ormond declining to retract until ho had satis- ' fied himself from the ' Hansard' report that

he had used the word in the sense attributed by Sir George Grey, Messrs Macandrew, Header Wood, and others.

THE ABOLITION DKBATK

Yesterday evening, nt 7.30, Mr rose amid loul cheers from the Opposition and n !- dressed the Mouse. Touching firstly u <i" The legal aspect, he contended that this w.n no the proper form for the discussion. 'OiiTercnt political sympathies and feelings made the House almost incompetent to deal with th it question, lie contended that tbe.U-!. of ,Im',s waamerely declaratory, and ueitheHn r.piut or intention did it sanction the Abolition Hdl a« at present before the House.—(Opposition cheers.) The Act of ISGS was intended simply to municipal institutions where there were no Provinces, bxit the Imperial Parlia ment never intended to give power to entirely sweep away the Constitution granted to the Colony. But the legal question was of little moment, because lm should be sorry to say the people of New Zealand were not competent to frame a OoF.stitnti«m t\n themselves. If the Bill passed, he lo)d the House it was only the eounneuceinent of constitutional changes-the people will have to demand further constitutional changed. There were constitutional changes as great and vast as this Bill proposed which for years th"V had been asking the House in vain to take up. lie argued that the onus of proof of the inutility of Provincialism lay with the pro;osers and supporters uf the change, and therefore it was not expected, nor was it the duty of the Opposition to bring forward a count'T (-onsiituti'-.n. He defended the Provinces from the charges of mismanagement and of selling )»\u in large blocks. He argued that the Bill would fail to create a national feeding, as th? retained Provincial districts, instead o> effecting a saving, would lead to increases! honorariums—three times more- than at presen'—or else throw representation into the hands of a class who adopted polities as a, last resort. He admitted that he was not in favor of delay, because he failed to sec how Provincialism could be substituted by a better form of local Government. Provincialism as a theoretical form of government could stand its test with any idea of central government, central administration, or legislation. Although, a yount, member, he might be permitted to warn those members who were so anxious for a chang? He did not desire to ' Hansardise' to point out to some of them how wonderful was the change that came over their views; he recognised, for eximple, that the Commissioner of Customs in becoming from an ultra-Provincialist an ultra-Centralist might have had very weighty arguments addressed to him to induce him to change his views. People could not by made to believe that by altering the Constitution they could cure the evils or the cause.; of the mischiefs that had fallen upon them ; the only salvation of the country lay in looking atV;- ;uv! governing their own affairs. This v,-..., the second time the people of Wow '/. ..•.dan.i had been asked to believe they could get rid of those evils of misgovernment by a change of the (\,ii stitution. The only good governtne.it to be obtained was by educating the electorates to look after their own interests. It would be an evil day for the Colony when the people were taught that they could g<-t rid of misgovernment by the simple change from Provincialism to Shire Councils. It was said that by the eha-i/e the people could be brought face to face--how cuid they possibly be brought more face to face than by Provincial Councils ? It was nonsense to talk of bringing the people face to face with the Government, when trying to make the country believe they could get some grea; benefit by a succession of surprises. Suoh ha I been the course of legislation for some yeaij past: scheme after scheme hail been propounded to every Parliament that sat wbhin that hall, and the people had been told that if they voted for each of those schemes morey would be spent in their place. These kind of bribes had been held out, and now they had bribes which virtually placed members for towns in the position of having to vote for the Bill rather than incur the ire of a ('itvlike Dunedin, losing LIO,OOO annually. This proposed change was not desire.i by the re..-1 settlers, but by two classes—the people in towns and the land monopolisers. He said he had only come forward this session because he considered a great principle was at stake—something greater than the |jinere form of government. Under this Bill the very vicious principle was established of attempting to have the people to believe a great boon could be obtained by merely onanging the paltry form of the paper Constitution under which they lived. He trusted members would look at the question fairly, He did not wish for delay in the hope that the ckvtorate might change their opinions, because he believed if the question went to the country Minister mi;, ht have a majority foi the Bill; but he asserted that that majority would not be hard-working settlers of the Colony but the i,-;onopolists and capitalists of the Colony (cheers)—backed up by <t section of the Press, who are under the ih u !;;b of the capitalists.— (Ch eers.) He knew for a faot of a portion of the Prsa*- in a certain part of the country where the directors at a nmetins carried by a majority of one eapituli-;', that the paper must go in against Provineiaikm, That was how public opinion was filtered. He warned those who thought the Bill was going to give a great bno«; and additional liberties to the peoele to look at this, and he was speaking particularly for Ot.igj, because in the absence 01 any public opinion he could not tell the feeling of this felony. Tluw who at present supported the Biil wc-t-e not miners and not settlers, but two classes, viz., tliur.o u'aji:;?d to rely upon the Government for everything and for money being spent in their places, and the class who had got millions of acres of the best land in their posstHHioh ar.d declined give up one acre for the purpose of sewieir.tml, He diet uot wish to name members of the House who were strongly supporting this Bill. Howwas New Zealand to take her place on the roll of nations '! Not by handing uvrr the country to feudal lords, but by imbruing the poopje with a truly democratic feeling—a f* eling of government for and by the people. That was the only way tbat sho could become a great nation. —(Loud cheers ) Mi' Wales, who followed, characterised >J t i speech as special pleading and charged him with looking at everything through Provincial spectacles. £iS£it-

[(Per Press A<ia,sii.) After Mr Stout's brilliant upecch ay;;un;-:fc the Bill last iiiqht, Mr Wales followed in stippmt of the measure, and Mr J. C. Brown against i!. There no other speakers. Major Atkinson was called on to reply, which In; did in a very vigorous speech, catr/oricaliy the chief arguments of the Opposition the Bill, and adducing additional liters in support of his financial proposals.

Mr O'Korke thou called lor a <H\ : -i'Hr, ami the following was the result : 17. Ayes :—MesPi-s Andrew, Gibbs, 'i rtln', J. K. Rrown, Bluett, Ormond, Richmond. J-Jeynolds, j Wales, Pyke, Katone, Mervyn, Murray, W. Kelly, J. Shephard, T. L. Shepherd, Von der Heyde, Bryce, Buckland, Parati, 'P. Kelly, Luckie, Stafford, Creighton, I'enixe, Bowon, O'Connor, Cuthbertson, Balhtnee, ilt!rri»i.:\ O'Nnl, Curtis, M'GUlivray, Wilson, l.Moharuson, Atkinnon, Williams, drrin-to", Johnston, Basstian, G. M'Lean, C. Parker, May, Munro, Wakefield, SirD. M'Lein), I\| 'Ulasha'n, Steward, Webb, J. C. Brown, Inglis and JacklOn. Jfyes : Sir George Grey, Messrs Header Wood, Thomson, iJi.tfnau, Sheeh.m, ("'Bo;!;? Stout, Macan-lrew, Takatnonna, White, Fitzherbert, Beeves, Hunter, Bcid, Montgomery, and Bunny. Pairs : For—Messra Parker (G. B.), Kenny, and Bradshaw. Against—Messrs Bolleston, Ward, and Brandon. Major Atkinson moved that the Hon *« should go into Committee of the whole to consider the Bill on Tuesday next. This was carried, and the House adjourned at a quarter to two. Some altercation ensued between Messrs O'Conno-, Murray, and the Speaker hist , at eleven o'clock regarding the usual adjournment, apparently through misappiehensiou. and the Speaker told those hon. members that they would never addtGss the House at;ain in the way they did that evening. I Mr O'Connor iias given notic to make tin. J matter a question of privilege.