WELLINGTON.

Evening Star, Issue 3901, 25 August 1875, Page 2

WELLINGTON.

[By Telegraph.]

{From our own Correspondent.)

MR MAOANDREW’S SPEECH, ' Wellington, July 25. Mr Macandrew spoke yesterday on the Abolition question as follows The hon. member (Mr Buckland) who has just spoken, has been exceedingly eloquent in denouncing the state of things which, as I understand, occurred long before Provincial Councils or Provincial Governments came into existence. I may say I fail to see why he . should have made a personal attack on the member for Auckland West. I think he has attributed to that hon. member a statement which he never made. I am sure the member for Auckland West never took credit to himself for making the laws before the Constitution Act came into into force, but did so for the purpose of enabling the people of this Colony to make laws. I think it is a great pity that Auckland’s dirty linen should be brought here to be washed, and I hope we shall have no more such during this debate. The hon. member has altogether failed to assign any reason why the Provincial Council of Otago should be abolished. Before saying a few words upon the question now before the House, I desire to express my most unmitigated contempt for those unworthy motives which have been attributed to myself and others in connection with our opposition to this Bill-motives which have been attributed by those who 1 fear are very much inclined to measure other men’s com by their own bushels. Tor myself, at all events, I fail to see why—because I have the honor of being called by the popular will to administer the affairs of the Province, and am endeavoring to defend' tho rights of the people, to prevent those rights from being stolen a march upon—--1 am stigmatised as being actuated by mercenary motives. If any arguments are required to prove either the baseness of the assertion, so far as I am concerned, I need only point out that if I had supported this measure instead of opposing it. and if it became law, the chances Aie that I should have been offered a financial position far more secure and far mero lasting than that which I now hold. (Opposition cheers.) I think the chances are I should have been offered a very lucrative appointment independent of and irresponsible to the people. So much for the wretched affair, so unworthy of the House, which has heard so much about hungry Superintendents. Objection* to this Bill have been so fully urged by the various speakers that I should almost feel it pre* sumptuous on my part were I to endeavor to reiterate those arguments, which hare been much more forcibly adduced than 1 can pretend to do. I shall be content with referring to one or two considerations which it seems to me o'-'ght to influence the Heuse in dealing with the question now before it. In common with all the previous speakers I am of opinion that the time has come when it is absolutely necessary that there should be seme modilettion of the existing state of Government throughout Colony. —(Hear.) I am free to admit that the Colony is groaning under an overburden (cheers); we have now two governmental machines to do work whieh at one time was satisfied

I with one, and which, I believe, one is quite sufficient to perform; still this House and the members on the Government benches have failed to see the direction how and where the remedy can be best supplied. It appears to me it is not by sweeping away existing local selfgovernment that the remedy can be best supplied : this House ought to look at Home. I think this Legislature ought to commence by reducing its own establishment—-by confining its functions to those subjects intended by the Constitution Act. I have had a seat in this House, with very little intermission, during past twenty-one years I believe there is only one hon. member besides mysdf who occupied a seat in the first session of 1854—and it may therefore be fairly E resumed that I have had some opportunity of •coming acquainted with the history of this Legislature, and so far I differ from the opinions expressed by the member for the Hutt. My experience of the history of this Legislature is that it has been to a great extent a usurpation of Provincial functions. _ When all these circumstances occur to me, it is a matter of amazement how Provincial Governments managed so long to keep their heads above water —amazement and wonder how these GoTernmentsperformedtheirfunctionssoeffectively when the sword of Damocles was so continually suspended over them. It is a lamentable thing to reflect that Provincial Councils—that men who administer Provincial affairs, who have borne the heat and burden of the day, who had and were doing their best to carry on the great work of colonising the country—instead of being encouraged by me superior Legislature, have had every obstacle placed in their way in endeavoring to develop the resources of the country. I say this is a policy which has led to the present unsatisfactory state of things. If this Bill had been a Bill for abolishing the supreme Legislature, as at present constituted, it would have had my most hearty support.— (Cheers and laughter). By this Bill we are told great pecuniary savings will be effected to the Colony ; but the only saving that can be effected is in the cost ef Provincial Councils and Provincial Executives, which amounts to somewhere, I think, about L 30.000 a-year. No doubt when the power of making Provincial appointments comes to be exercised, those who have unlimited means at their disposal, and are not so amenable to Provincial Councils and the people, as proved authorities are—l say when that time eomes when the necessary appointments are made, when municipalities and road boards share with the Colonial Government the functions now exercised by Provincial Legislatures, I think it will be found that the saving will turn out to be very small indeed, more apparent than real. I should not wonder, indeed, if a larger amount than L 30,000 is involved in the administration of the country. Even granting this saving will be a real one, what is it compared with the advantages the people sacrifice by giving up the power of electing their own Provincial Council —of electing the administrators of their own local affairs ? Therefore the saving, assuming it to be a fact, is as nothing compared with depriving the Colony of the advantages and benefits undoubtedly accruing from Provincial Councils. The member for the Taieri has stated those advantages and benefits so fully that I shall not attempt to repeat them. I don’t know if all Provincial Councils are equally worthy of being extolled, but this I do know, a s regards that with which I am most familiar, that the Provincial Council of Otago is just as competent to deal with Colonial, let alone Provincial matters as House. I know the members of that Council are far more masters of the business that comes before them as a rule than the members are of the business that comes before this House. I venture to say there is not a man of the Provincial Council of Otago who cannot and does not thoroughly understand the state of the finances ef the Province ; while I doubt very much whether the same thing can be said_ of many a member of this House in relation to the finances of this House, unless, indeed, they be experts: I confess I am ashamed to say I do not claim te be one of them, I unhesitatingly declare my belief that if you_ only define the powers and functions of Provincial Councils the Government of this Colony would be far more efficiently and economically conducted by Provincial Councils than it possibly can be by any central legislature. It seems to me that what is wanted is, to define the powers of both, and to make each supreme in its own stjle. While such are my views, while I consider the people of the Colony will be making a grievous blun-der-will be, in fact, doing a political crime—if they agree to part with ene iota of self-govern-ment that they at prebent possess, nevertheless if I find them so devoid of sense of responsibility both to themselves and to the future, all I can say is the minority must just submit; but I have yet to, learn that the people are prepared to sacrifice the Constitution under which tie Colony has so greatly progressed; that Canterbury and Otago, for example, are willing to abandon the Compact of 1856. Though I was a member of the Legislature in 1856, I was opposed to that Compact, believing as I did at the time that it was inexpedient and unjust both towards the Province and the Colony; but I h(SVe yet to leamthat Canterbury and Otago are prepared to abandon that Compact, to relinquish their territorial revenue in favor of the Colony.—(“ No.”) I say to all intents and purposes that is what’s being done under this Bill—(Opposijjion cheers)—that Otago and Canterbury will relinquish their territorial revenue. —(Cheers and noes.) It will be removed from the appropriation of the Provincial Councils, to be appropriated by the House, to be thrown into the vortex of the Council’s finance, at the bottom of •■'tthich there is nothing, I fear, but financial embarrassment and disaster. In the Province of Otago the whole territorial revenue u j devoted towards the erection of reads, bridges, ‘and public works throughout the length and breadth of the Province ; under this Bill upwards of L 90.000 a year of territorial revenue is to be applied* to paying interest on the Provincial debt that is to say a debt hitherto paid from other sources is now to be charged against territorial,jrevenile.—(“ Noes.) How anyone ..who readS'the Bill can deny that I am at a loss to perceive. Money from other sources is of course to b&set free to be dealt with by this House, to be manipulated here, and I assure the people of Otagg that they need not be afraid—little will find , jts way back to them: I am certain of that. How the representatives from that portion of the Colony can reconcile themselves to this spoliation I confess I am atl a loss to conceive; the only satisfaction I have m the matter is that when the people ofytago wake up out of this financial intoxication to which the member for the Hutt referred the other night, when they become !3mve to the real position of affairs, when the «boe begins to pinch, as undoubtedly it will, then the people of that part of the Colony will be prepared to listen and approve of any proposal whereby we can take a leaf out of the book of Victoria and go in for a separate ; y Colony.—(Opposition cheers.) Viewing it that way ptthaps goad may come out of evil. We are told the people from one end of the Colony to the other are demanding that administration of local affairs bo handed over to a Central Government : I a«k where is the evidence of this, where are the petitions ? Surely, if the people are so eager to denude themselves of the powers of local -self-government they now possess, the table of the House would groan with petitions in favor of the Bill; but with the exception of resolutions from a few impecunious municipalities, which have been bribed by prospects of substantial endowments, there is no indication of public opinion on the subject. I have no doubt the so-called substantial endowments u & found ' J 518 substantial as the fiveeighths of. the Customs revenue, then the three-eighths, and then 40s turned out to be — they all vanished before the exigencies of the Colony I have not the slightest doubt, if by this bait held out the Bill does become law, that all these substantial endowments will share the . fa I t ® of thes« predecessois. The people will probably find °ut, when it is too late, that these substantial appropriations will turn out to be a sham, a delusion, and a snare. As I said before, I am utterly at a lose to account for the suicidal action of the representatives of the Southern part of the Colony in this matter. The immenV lt ™ P f aCtICBI ° f the mea *urc, so far as Otago is eoncerned, ami so far as the Colony"! concerned, is that the land revenue becomes Colonia!, and comes under the Appropriation Bill of this House. It rc©uirea nn phetie vision to foresee that w££h «OB«rol» the vpropriatio* will undoSbteSj

control the expenditure —of eourso this would be merely a question of time. To my mind that is the great secret of the support the measure is receiving at the hands of the powerful elass connected with the interest that monopolises the Waste Lands of the Crown.—(Opposition cheers.) You may depend upon it that if the administration ef the Waste Lands of the Crown remits in the bauds of the Provincial Councils uuder the eyes of the people the better will it bo for the interests of settlement. I look upon the amount which will be saved by abolishing the Provincial Councils, assuming it will be a saving, which I very much doubt, as say L 4,000 or L 5,000 a-year. Wkat is that compared with the public interests in relation to the administration of waste lands which the absence of the Provincial Council affects ? In Otago we have extensive edncatienal reserves, which in the course of a few years realise an annual value sufficient to obviate, to a great extent, or altogether, the necessity for special taxation for education pui poses ; but by this Bill those reserves become invested in the Governor.— (Noes). Certainly they do. I tell hon. members that the next part ef the play will be that they will be put into the Colonial Treasury to be appropriated towards education throughout the Colony. I am as certain of that as that I am standing here. —(Noes.) Then again we have the prospect of the large revenues from_ the railways constructed by the Province—l believe in no part of the Colony for some years tc come will railways yield better than or as as well as in Otago, in fact in a short period we shall be getting LIO,OOO a year from our railways over and above the working expenses of the lines. Why should this sum be sent up te Wellington instead of being •pent by the Provincial Council in the construction of roads, bridges, &c., in the Province? No doubt we shall be told the House of Representatives will take e&re that the revenue derived from each particular district will be returned to it, but I confess I have no great confidence in that. The thing is utterly impossible, It will go into the Colonial Treasury whenever the exigencies of the Colony demand it. Surely the resources ef Otago are far more likely to be equitably distributed by forty-five men elected by the people in an assembly at Dunedin than by seventy-eight men sitting here, only nineteen of whom know .anything or have any interest in tho Province. The member for the Dunstanhas given us doleful accounts of the way in which the goldfields of Otago are treated by the Provincial Council. It is utterly hopeless to attemptto argue with that hon. member, who thinks there are no other interests than mining in the Province. I feel sure the miners themselves will not be slow to discover that if they had but little under Provincial administration they will have infinitely less under Colonial administration. It will be no very difficult matter to show that the Colonial Government received large revenues from the goldfields, while a comparatively small amount found its way into the coffers of the Province. The goldfields cost the Province much more than has been received from them ; at the present time the Province is paying L 20,000 a-year at least upon that portion of the Provincial debt which was incurred for opening up goldfields. All the outlying districts and goldfields will find that if the Province has chastised them with whips the Colonial Government will chastise them with scorpions. How any man with the slightest knowledge of the amount expended on tho Otago goldfields—though I admit it has been inadequate to our necessities—can lay the flattering unction to his soul that the amount will be exceeded is utterly beyond my comprehension. If the Bill becomes law those settled districts having the greatest amount of rateable property will get tho lion’s share.—(Opposition cheers.) Tho deluded miners will soon wake mp to find they have been most egregiously sold. Another argument adduced in favor of the Bill is that it will reduce the cost of, and provide efficient police. It will be a very great blunder if the police are taken over by the Colony; if any reform is wanted in that direction, it should be towards decentralisation. We know tho Irish Constabulary, which is under tho control and supervised by the Central Government, is not to be compared, as regards efficiency and economy with the constabulary in England which Is under local control. (Mr Luclde: Central control also.) I think it is under purely local control. I have no hesitation in saying, taking the City of Dunedin for example, that the cost of the police ought to bo borne by the Corporation of the town, and then half the present supervision would be sufficient to keep the peaee ; whereas, whether under Central or Provincial control, districts are always to be found clamoring for police who would not he otherwise clamoring for them. I can remember districts where one man was sufficient to protect the district, in which, in New Zealand, at least five are required. Instead of anything to be gained it will be quite the reverse from the centralisation of the police, in so far as Otago is concerned. I look upon the present proposal as a most wanton and most unprovoked attempt by the central Legislature to upset tho system of Government which has worked well, and will compare favorably with the administration of tho Colonial Government. This attempt is being made by those, who, I believe, are utterly ignorant of tho nature and extent of the functions they are seeking to take upon themselves. The Colonial Treasurer looks upon Otago through the optics of Taranaki Province, the whole extent of whose business is not much greater than some of the municipalities or road boards in the South. The House will be surprised when I tell them that in Otago the Executive Council meets twice a week, and it is no uncommon occurrence to pass through at each a hundred different matters—many of them comparatively insignificant, but all more or less of local interest to the parties interested. If this Bill passes, all this business must either bo blotted out of existence or must be administered by an agent on the spot, or by a Minister in Wellington, and in that case I imagine these benches will have s considerable addition to their numbers. Assuming the latter to be the ease, will any man tell ssetlie local affairs of Otago are likely to be more satisfactory dealt with by a Ministry in Wellington than by a Council presided over by a Superintendent—both elected by tho people, responsible to the people, and accessible to the people at all times ? To «y mind the thing is preposterous—members on those benches have no idea of the duties they are undertaking. Last session the Provincial Council passed fiftyeight or fifty-nine Bills, more or less important, and all affecting subjects of local interest ; and if this Bill passes, of course all this Provincial work will be cropping up hero, and no doubt similar work from other parts of the Colony, Another reason adduced for abolishing the Provinces and for robbing the South is the scandalous state of Auckland, but I consider no better argument could be adduced in favor of an alteration of the system of central legislation which brought Auckland to her present condition. I condemn the Bill as a step towards separation, and warn the Ministry (that their action will produce results they little dream of. Another reasen adduced for abolishing the Provinces and robbing the South is the scanunions state Jof Auckland, which at on© time existed upon iron rails —a not very nutritious diet, Auckland is said to be in a state of starvation. Looking at the extent of Auckland’s commerce and revenues, it appears to be one of the greatest anomalies and wonders of tins wonderful New Zealand that Auckland, which contributes to the Colonial chest L 30.000 a-year, (and has a Provincial debt of rather more than a third less than Otago, is in a state of starvation. Instead of being an argument for the abolition of Provincial Councils it is an argument that tho administration and legislation which produced such a state of things should immediately be sent to that bourne from which no traveller returns. To my mind nothing shows the more thoroughly rotten state of Denmark ” than the fact that Auckland should be starving while the Colonial Government should be wallowing in wealth luxury, and extravagance, the means for which are contributed to a great extent by the starving Province of Auckland. The ease of Auckland points to this: instead of affording an argument for the abolition of Provincial Councils it affords the strongest possible argument why A uckland should be turned adrift to manage its own affairs and resources. Auckland, with a revenue of L 30.000, does net need to put its hands into its neighbors’ pockets, as by this Bill it is invited to do. If there are any representatives here who are prepared to go in for po’ii ttcaJ commission, I rejoice to tkmk fchsy

be the people of Auckland. Auckland will next session send a united band and a chief, whose mission will be to demand separation upon terms equitable to the North and South alike. The absolute necessity which exists is not for constitutional changes but for reform, and a return te the spirit and intention the Constitution Act, which provides that each Province should manage for its peace, order, and good government, which it was never intended the Central Legislature should arrogate to itself—functions altogether unreasonable with the idea of a great and united Colony, I am one of those who always cherished tho idea and aspiration of a united Colony, and it is because I feol that the practical effect of this scheme will not be to make a great and united Colony, but place us under the worst of despotisms, that I, among other reasons, oppose the second reading of this Bill. I tell the hon. gentlemen on those beaches that they are kindling a tire which not even their colleague in England, with all his abilitv, will be able to extinguish unless the administration of affairs gets into the hands of wiser men. I fear this tire will reduce the so-called unity of the Colony to ashes ; but I hope and believe, however, that it will ultimately rise phoenix-like from its ashes, and I am convinced the people of Auckland and Wellington will insist upon the management of their own local affairs and the control of their own local revenues : and do you suppose the people of the South, when they begin to feel the practical effects of this policy—to feel the want of those monies hitherto received at the hands of a Eaternal local Government—will sit quietly y and submit to a different system of things which will have been forced upon them without consulting them if the Bill is passed this session; and so far as Otago is concerned, thrust upon them by the votes of every few representatives from that part of the Province, and [in the face of a protest from forty-six representatives of the people ia the Provincial Council. —(Reads resolution.) This resolution applied to the North Island Provinces. It was not supposed that it was intended a fortnight after this Parliament met that the Government would coolly come down with a measure to abolish the Province of Otago. There would have been a very different resolution carried if there had been any thought of such an intention. At the present time there appears to be a great amount of political indifference throughout the Colony, arising, I believe, out of the state of financial intoxication in which the Colony is yet. There can be no doubt that when the people of tho Colony find out that they have been deprived of Home Rule, without having been consulted, there will arise in the breast of every Englishman and Irishman that perUdium Scotonm which, I would fain believe, is only slumbering in the far south. Ido not know anything more indicative of the storm now • brewing in Otago than that resolution passed at Balclutha the other night. (Reads.) I tell the hon. members on those benches that if they persist in forcing this measure through flhis session, they are acting a part most unwise and unstatesmanlike: a part which no true patriot can but deplore tnev are sapping at the foundations of that royalty and respect for constituted authority which we all ought te cherish ever loyally, to which tho British empires owes its greatness. You would steal a march upon the rights of the people which no despot dare do. We are told that the Colony is ripe for this change, but I maintain such is not the case. There is just as much reason for arriving at one conclusion as the other. Let the ballot-box decide it. Surely no great hand 1 can result from three months’ further delay; you have borne with this monstrosity for twenty-one long years, wbatbam can result from continuing for three months’ longer? My belief is that you don’t believe the country ia with you, otherwise you would not show such haste. I challenge you to go to the country.—(Cheers.) My belief is, the more people throughout the Colony become alive to the real position of affairs the more it will be found that it is not constitutional changes that are wanted, but that financial reform, reduction of taxation, and application of the proceeds from the present taxation to objects of public interest are required, I confess there is no hope of taxation being reduced or economical Government so long as the expenditure of the public revenue and management of the public affairs of the Colony are under tho control and direction of one Central Legislature for both Islands. This has become a settled conviction upon my mind. I only now express the earnest and sincere hope that the hon. gentlemen on the Government Benches will listen to the warning voice of reason, will be content with the affirmation of the principle, will not endeavor to get the Bill beyond its second reading: but will leave its ultimate fate to the voice of the people. Before sitting down I shall «se the language of one of the greatest men of the present century, under circumstances somewhat analagous to those in which we are placed by this measure. Had £ the eloquence of him who willed at will the fierce democracy which shook the arsenal (?) and fulmined over Greece from Xenophon to Artaxerxes’ throne, I should inspire and instil into the minds of the people of New Zealand that enthusiasm which flourishes in adversity, ia kindled in the hour of danger, and awakens to deeds of renown. The terrors of persecution only serve to quicken the energy of its purposes ; it swells in proud integrity, and, great in the purityjox its caused it can scatter defiance amidst a host of enemies.

At last night’s sitting, the Opposition were nicely cornered. At 7.30 they a difficulty in putting up a man, when “ Question I” resounded from all sides of the House. Mr Bunny stepped into the breach, and Mr Joseph Shepherd followed in support of the Bill. Another long pause, and then Mr Dignan rose and proposed that the Bill be read a second time that day six months. This motion took the House by surprise. It was all along under* stood that no amendment on the second reading would be moved, but that the debate should continue until a division was taken on the main question. The amendment, therefore, looked very much like a breach of faith, and Sir Donald MVLean refused to go on with the debate on the Government side until the amendment had been disposed of. As it was then only a little past ten o'clock it became necessary for the Opposition to put up a member to speak against time, and so stave off a division on the main question for at least another day. Mr Sheehan undertook the disagreeable which he discharged with voluble pertinacity for more than two hours. The question was then put and the amendment declared lost on the voices. As it turned out no great harm came of it, although it was quite open to the Opposition to go over the ground again. The history of the amendment is this : the break in the debate having occurred after Mr Shepherd, of Nelson, sat down a division was called for, and the question was being put when Mr Dignan intercepted it by his amendment. _ This was not done in concert with the Opposition leaders, who were absent at the time with the exception of Mr Reader Wood, and no advantage was taken of it save by Mr Sheehan. The ‘ Times’ calls upon the leaders to enforce greater discipline among their followers to prevent further misunderstandings. On Thursday the debate will be resumed by Mr Walter Johnston, and an attempt will be made to bring it to a close then.

Mr Stout is expected to speak on Thursday. Great interest centres in Monday’s meeting at the Hutt, when Mr Stafford undertakes to address the electors on the Bill. It is rumored strong efforts will be made to prevent his bein» heard. D

. 2 p.m. The Abolition debate will close on Friday.

{From a Correspondent.)

The Dunedin Corporation Waterworks Bill S reamble was proven in committee. Mr I‘Glashan is fighting hard against the compulsory rating powers over the suburbs • a i ao the compulsory purchasing powers. ’ rpi e Pine Hill settlers lands' and ripari- „ rights clauses will be altered if not r r v„ Bill will be passed on its third