WELLINGTON.

Evening Star, Issue 3895, 18 August 1875, Page 3

WELLINGTON.

[Bt Telegraph.]

(From, our own Correspondent. ) Wellington, August 17. A two-hours’ discussion arose over the Speaker's intimation to the House that an error had arisen in entering the journals of the House ri the mode of procedure adopted on introducing the Abolition Bill.

Sir George Grey led off by asking whether everything done since the introduction of the Bill was not informal, and whether the whole matter would not require to he begun de novo. The Speaker said he had not the slightest hesitation in answering the question. The proceedings, so far as the Abolition Bill was concerned, were perfectly correct. The Bill having been sent down by message, it was competent for the House at once to discuss it; but having appropriation clauses in it, the House must, after its second reading, go into committee of the whole to consider those appropriation clauses before it could reach another stage. So far precedents showed that what was done was quite in order, and there was nothing contrary to the Standing Orders. Mr Stafford corroborated the Speaker, whose ruling was borne out by the practice of the ommon ß up to a very recent time. Mr Eitzherbert asked if the course would not have been different if a private member had brought man appropriation Bill. In that case the House would first require to go into committee of the whole. The Speaker : Certainly. Mr Fitzherbert contended that the House had been humed m ita deliberations by the course the Government pursued. Mr O’Horke contended that the House must B mded b y lta . standing Orders, and No. 305 laid down plainly that no appropriation Uill could be proceeded with unless in committee of the whole.

ihe Speaker: 1 hat is quite true, but the bon. member must bear in mind that the House is obliged to be ruled by another Standing Order, which says that when the Governor sends down a Bill by message, it must be_ dealt with in a particular way. H e pointed out the peculiar way in which the Abolition Bill stood. It was not for him to decide as to the political bearing of its introduction, but he had given the matter his most careful and anxious consideration, and he assured the House that guided byj our own rules and the practice of the House of Commons in analogous cases, he considered every step so far taken was correct. It mattered not whether the House went into Committee before

or after the second reading, but if the second reading was agreed to, the next step was imperatively to go into Committee of the whole to consider the appropriation clauses. Sir George Grey next rising to a point of order, said the Bill was remarkably silent, and the Government had carefully avoided the sub ject of finance. The Opposition first wanted to get explanations on finance in order to enable them to comprehend the measure. If the Bill was undoubtedly wrong upon finance—(“ No ’’) —as he believed it to be, and that it could be so shown, the Bill was of no use whatever. It was a fair and just claim in such an important measure that the Standing Orders should be rigidly observed. He asked, in justice to the country, that so important a matter should be pursued through all its stages properly, regularly, and according to the Standing Orders. Major Atkinson complained that Sir George Grey had gone a. little further than was customary on such occasions. It was quite hopeless to attempt to make hon. gentlemen opposite understand finance, but in due course he would show them thoroughly what it was, and then it would be for the House and the country to say whether the Government really understood the financial position of the Colony or their own financial proposals.—((’beers.) Mr Eeid contended that a minority had the right to insist that the forms of the House, framed for the protection of minorities, should be rigidly observed. Mr Buckle said this was a new policy of the Opposition—anything to gain delay. Mr Reader Wood in referring to Mr Luckie said, amid’roars ef laughter His tongue must eternally go, because [h© has impudence at will.

Mr Luckie rose to a point of order. He thought Mr Wood had gone a little too far. Mr Wood said that, when interrupted, he was giving a description of an individual referred to by the poet Sray.—(Loud laughter.) He reminded the Government that the Opposition came to the House Innocenc of such questions being raised. The Speaker observed that it was his place to argue the matter. He had already expressed his opinion, carefully and maturely considered, and saw no reason to alter it.

After considerable discussion Mr Bunny asked:—“ Are we subject to our standing orders or’not ?”

The Speaker: Certainly. Mr Bunny : Are we bound by them ? The Speaker : Certainly. Mr Bunny : Then an attempt is being made 5o get over them. We contend that under rule 355 we must go into Committee of the whole before wo can proceed with the second reading, and we call upon you to protect the minority from the Government breaking the rules.

The Speaker: There is no further need of a statement from me.—(Cries of “No.”) Mr Montgomery pointed out the different course pursued Jast year on the introduction of the State Forests and Civil Service Bills, and called on the Speaker to give his reasons. The Speaker ; It is not for me to give reasons. I simply decide the course taken by Government in accordance with the Standing Orders and'the practice of Parliament.—(Cheers.) Sir George Grey charged the Government with wantonly breaking through the Standing Orders. In a neighboring Colony when the Government discovered their error they took the path of rectitude and right; but this Government when it made the discovery determined net to follow that path, and that the people should have no knowledge of the financial details of the Bill until after its principle was confirmed and the Bill read a second time. Every step taken in reference to the Bill was unusual. It was unnecessary to mould two Bills into one ; by so doing they shut out the upper branch of the Legislature from any power to alter the measure. For the protection of the minority they should first have gone into Committee of the whole, in fairness and justice to the minority and to their colonists whom they were about to deprive of their

representative institutions - - (Oh) replacing them by nominated Superintendents—(Loud noise and cheers from the Opposition)— nominated public officers, making the whole country one great Government of the Civil Service, whose slaves the Government were in point of fact. —(Laughter andfcheers). The Government had determined to push the measure through, against which the public.voice was raised until they hud an opportunity of considering it.—(“ No, no.”) He said “Yes, yes.” If the Government gave the people time to consider what was before them, the Opposition was prepared to unite hand and heart in favor of a proper Constitution which would last for years. On an occasion like this ha asked a powerful majority not to trample upon a minority—a course in which they must ultimately fall, in spite of every effort to the contrary.—(Opposition cheers). , . August 18, "he Abolition debate was continued yesterday evening from half-past seven till midnight, without interruption. Mr Rolleston spoke for a little over an hour, with much hesitation and very dolefully, and he was followed by Mr Bowen, who spoke well and with remarkable vigor. His allusion to the House shortly being in possession of authority higher than the law officers of the Crown as to the power of the Assembly to deal with the question was understood to refer to a telegram sent to Sir J. Vogel to obtain the opinion of the English Crown law officers. Mr Ballauce, editor of the Wanganui ‘ Herald,’ and Mr Fox’s successor, spoke for an hour and a-half, making by far the best speech of the debate. It was closely reasoned, and full of telling points, and at its conclusion Mr Ballance was warmly cheered from all sides of the House. _ He showed the extreme change undergone in the opinions of Messrs Wood, Fitzherbert, and Bunny, and demonstrated how the latter’s [administration of affairs in Wellington Province had injuriously affected the interests of the outlying districts. He also referred to the informal way in which the effects'of the financial part of the Bill were treated by the Opposition. At 11,30 Mr Reid moved the adjournment of the debate, which was negatived. Mr Webb followed with a weak speech. Sir George Grey next moved the adjournment of the House, which the Government resisted.

. Mr T. Kelly called upon the Government to sit till three o'clock each morning. Mr Pyko called the Opposition a tyranical minority, whose only object was delay, and advised the Government to sit in permanence till the motion was disposed of.

Mr Murray, in the coarse of his speech, said it was all very well for members to spend their time in Bellamy’s, for which, and other statements, he received a dressing down from VLr Staffoid. A most irregular and acrimonious discussion followed. Mr Kolleston fiercely told Mr Stafford the less he talked about patriotism the better after his action in 1872, and he charged the Government with having packed a majority, which provoked loud calls of “chair.” Mr E. B. Parker denied that he was packed. Mr Wood in torn attacked Mr Stafford, Messrs Pyke and Mervyn rising to order, and Mr Stafford remarking that he would have opportunities of referring to Mr Wood’s conduct since 1872.

Sir George Grey and Mr Fitzherbert the Government with causing surprises arid attempting to break through the rules wholesal*.

Mr Atkinson argued that the Government had shown the utmost forbearance, and asked the House to recollect the Opposition’s promise that if at the outset time was given them they would go straight on to the consideration of the Bill.

Mr Fitzherbert announced that the Opposition would use every means of defeating the passage of the Bill.

Mr Buckland promised to support the Government on this question, because he believed the Bill was a necessity, though he was opposed to them on other questions. If the Opposition intended to try to mould a good Bill, let there be plenty of discussion ; but if delay was simply intended he advised the Government to abstain from talking and vote. If, as Sir George Grey put it, the Provincial hares were going to double at every turn, it became dogs to grab them when they could. * ee^an » one of the Opposition whips, next talked for an hour against time, Mr Keid n.mug previously adopted a similar line ioS^f ge r?’ at 235 mov 'od the ad ]onrnment which was negatived by thirty-four S D then W n Ve ‘ A , mo “ dm ™t after amendment with alike result, tillfat t».ou a.m. the Opposition gave way.