THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Evening Star, Issue 3889, 11 August 1875, Page 2

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

[By Telegraph ] Wellington, August 10. In the House of Representatives this afternoon the Hon. W, H, Reynolds delivered his STATEMENT ON MARINE MATTERS. Mr Reynolds, on rising, said -Last session I was frequently applied to in the House for in formation regarding the Marine Department, and you will remember, sir, that before the session closed, I stated what progress had hewn made in the works undertaken by the department during the recess, and also the views of the Government as to what further actio should be taken during the cuirmt year. Anticipating the wish of the House for further in formation, I now propose to show what has been done during the past year, and what is proposed for the present LIGHTHOUSES. Shortly after the termination of last session, officers of the Marine Department were despatched to visit The Brothers, in Cook Strait, with a view to ascertain whether it would be advisable to erect a lighthouse on one of these islets, instead of at the entrance to Tory Channel, and afterwards to visit the sites of the proposed lighthouses in the Middle Island. From the reports received, and which I j aT - e j ,j Uß * i 011 the table, it was decided to erect a lighthouse at The Brothers instead of at Tory Channel I he apparatus which had been ordered for Tory Channel, and which ia now in the Colony, will consequently not be required for that place, and is unsuitable for The Brothers but will be available for Hokitika, where it is proposed to erect it. In connection with Tory Channel, I may also state that last month Captain Johnson, of this department, was sent to select sites for the erection of leading lights to guide vessels into that channel; and as soon as the temporary beacons have been prove< I to be in their proper positions, it is proposed to provide the lights. Having obtained all the requisite information as to the sites and class of ligh's required, an order was sent to England iu February last for the necessary apparatus for lights to be erected on the Brothers, iu Cook Strait; at Puysegur Point and Centre Island, iu Poveaux Strait; at Moko Hinou Island, in Hauraki Gulf; at Cape Maria Van Diemen, at the extreme north of the North Island ; and at Portland Island, off the Mabia Peninsula. Advices have been received from the engineers in Great Britain that the contracts lor the lanterns and apparatus have been let, and no injecting the Mtettfcry buildings, rfo that they may be*

ready, or nearly an, to reeelve ike llgfeia when they arrive in the Colony. A toad party has been for some time at work forming a road from Puysegur Point to Otago 'etreat, at the entrance to Preservation Inlet, the nearest convenient briber, and a road has also been formed to the site of Capo Foul wind Lighthouse The materials for this lighthouse are partly in the Colour, and the r-mainder on the way from .nglana ; and preparation is being made for erection of tne tower and dwellings, '(’he Government propose ordering at «n early date lights for the following placesMoe aki, Cape Saunders, Akaroa Heads, and a site yet to bn fixed near the eastern entrance to Mauraki Gulf, Tour concurrence will be asked to these proposals when the estimates are under consideration, as alse to provide for the erection of leading lights for Tory Channel, and for the removal of Man* Island light to Cape Fgmont. The latter w 11 have to await , the completion of the light on The Brothers, and the acqu ring ef A suitable site; but the land being Native prepeny requires further action to be taken by my colleague the Naive Minister. In connection with the claims of tbs ship* ping c-immunity for the erection of additional lighthouse*. I may point out that the light dues for the past financial year amounted to Ll0,?41 19< 6d, whilst tbs cost of maintaining th“ lights only amounted to L5.7C7 4b 9d, thus showing a profit of L 4.474 14s 9.J. The profit during the previous financial year was f'3,989 Is 9d. From the Ist of July, 1866, to the 30th June last, the revenue derivable from light dues has exceeded the working expenditure by L 18.847 13s 6d. The Government do not propose to reduce fthe dues, bat rather to use any surplus, from time to t me, towards increasing the number of lighthouses along ths coast. TBAINIKO SCHOOLS. The Naval Training ."chools Act, which was passed last session, has enabled the Govern* ment to establish a school at Kobimarania, near Auckland, in very _ suitable buildings, belonging to the Melanesian Trust, together with the schooner Southern Cross, as a training

ship. I proceeded to Auckland last September with this object in view, and while there I was fortunate enough to secure the services of Lieutenant Tidy, R.N., who has devoted a great deal of his time to the starting of ths institution, and has rendered me most valuable assistance. Mainly through Ins instrumentality f secured the service* of Lieutenant Breton, RN., to take charge of the institution lu April last I again paid a flying visit to Auckland, and was highly giutified to find that the selection of Captain Breton had been a most fortunate one. He has his heart in the work, and I have no doubt that the institution will pr ove a great succe s under his management. I found the boys well disciplined, happy, and proud of their occupation. They also snowed considerable proficiency in working the ''Outhern Cross during our short trip, doing everything themselves, even to steering the vessel. I found them also well trained in pulling in boats. While their nautical training hud been attended to. they had not been neglected iu other respects; they were receiving a liberal education, and weie also being taught the ait of swimming, BTO * M SIGNALS A.' D WEATHER REPORTING. 'ome fifteen nion’hs ago the Government niHated a new ot the Marine I epaitm nfc, for the pur pose ot obtaining reliable reoits as to the stale of t 1 e weather in the various ports of the o’ony, in enter that, from examination of tinge ohm rvat,ions, which are forwarded by telegraph t > acentral oflice, forecasts of the weather nn.y be made, ami by a system of storm signals, masters of vessels may be repareit for approaching had weather, 'this wo k has been confided to Commandi r Edwin, R.N., who, I am glad to say, has shown a great amount of skill, zeal, and energy in carout my w shes to secure this boon to the Colony. Arrangements have been made by which Captain Johnson, iu addition to Ids other duties in the Marine Department, is associated with Captain Edwin in this branch of the service, so as to insure that in the event of Captain t dwin being unable at any time, either from sickness or other causes, to attend to this du’y, the system will be carried on without ri k< f stoppage. From official reports which have been received, and are now laid before yon, as well as from private sources, I am given to underst nd that the weather forecasts given from the central office have been generally very correct; that the information thus given has been highly appreciated at most of the shipping ports of the Colony, and has the mean* of preventing loss and damage to many vessels. Honorable members must, however, bear in mind that such a scheme cannot be perfected in a day or a year. It is only very lately that Captain Edwin has been able to give au> thing like reliable information ; every day now will enable him to acquire further data on which to base his forecasts. Iu order that the necessary observations might be carried out with greater accuracy, a supply of superior meteorological instruments has been lately ordered from England ; and it is hoped that the system will be in a most efficient state before our next meeting

LAND PURCHASES IN NORTH ISLAND.

Sir Donald M’Lean made his ministerial statement relative to land purchases in the North Island. He commenced with a hope that it would disabuse the minds of members that sufficient care had not been taken to guard the public interests. He recited the decision of the Assembly that a public estate should be acquired in the North Island for purposes of colonisation, and the difficulties which had to be encountered in carrying out this decisionsuch as abrogation by the Crown of the right of pre-emption over Native lands, and the employment in consequence by | rivate individuals of all tne moat able agents heretofore in the employ of • Government. When the Assembly voted L7oo,ooti to acquire hind from Natives, the Government found itself with scarcely any officers of experience to carry out the delicate work of land purchase negotiations. It was therefore found expedient to make terms with the most active and successful of those agents —Mr White, K.M., Mongonui ; Mr Kemp, Civil Commissioner, Auckland ; Colonel M'Uonald, Mr Brissenden, and Mr Preeoe.

AREA OF LAND PCRCHASED OR LEASED BT GOVERNMENT BINOt 1872. The Province of Auckland purchased 490,784 acres; leased, 391,601 acres. Hawke’s Bay purchased 240,637; Wellington, 429,702 : Taranaki, 170,449 ; total, 1,618,681—at a oust <>f, including Lid,ooo charged for ex,jenßßß of department, OouunDsioiiers, etc., L164,21fL or 2s 6£l per ..ere; and 391 601 acres have b< en leased, on which have been paid L 2.987. Incompleted transactions represent a total of 2.941 842 acres under purchase, and 1,622,503 under lease on which has been paid, including L 18,186 for departmental sernco, Id 18,828. ' be Government have steadily kept iu view the twofold object of providin'? land for influx of population and of securing those districts to the Colony through which public works are being carried. The Government have also endeavored to acquire laud in large blocks ; Hut, while the advantage of doing so is obvious, lands of inferior descriptions were of necessity included. A large area of land, though of far inferior description, has bssn secured at Tauj/o country. Some valuable blocks are now under negotiation, but the Minister hopes that no undue pressure will be brought to bear on the land purchase agents to urge on these purchases, as not only will onxr present good understanding with theNativOa bo endangered, but the main object in view marred by unwise and premature action. Negotiations of this nature (said Sir Donald) can only he carried on with the intelligent assent of the Natives, andjthis oau only be obtained when they have realised the advantage to be gained from having European aectlersm their neighborhood. After the statement Mr Maoandrew asked what steps had been taken *o fill up the seat for Caversham, vacant by the sudden death tf Mr Tolmie.

Sir Donald MTuean thought it would be considerate to the relations of the deceased not to take steps to fill the Seat till after the funeral.

Mr Reader Wood, referring to two Minlst*. rial statements being read to the House, laid this practice was contrary to accustomed usages of Parliament. If Ministers were to make these statements from printed papers, members should be allowed to read thelt speeches. At one time Ministers wade their sMemtote tft<t vm, uad Bmne

th»y kMvt ftht& they vote talking about How ward they to know but that these state ments were compiled by clerks? How ooul i the House feel certain that Ministers had th.-ii subjects in hand, or were at all masters of the details they were reading about ? Mr Rolleston also commented upon the tin parliamentary nature of the practice daily growing up, and deprecated its continuance. f The Speaker explained that in some Ministerial statement* it was more convenient for members, and contributed to the furthering of business, that statements involving the most varied and minute details should be printed ; but it did not therefore follow that because Ministers might choose to read printed state ments. members should therefore be allowed to read their speeches. Sir George Grey said the question appeal ed t* him to be ; were they to have a Ministry of great men, or merely a Ministry of clerks? Were they to have Ministers who could show the House that they really controlled the de partment* they represented, or were the> to be merely the talking birds of the clerks of the Government departments ? The statement Just read was a bare report and nothing more, n the British House of Commons, Minister after Minister dared not rise up and read their statements; and were wo to be unworthy of eur sire* ? The Financial Statement was nothing more than a compilation of figures, am! he questioned whether the Colonial Treasurer knew anything about what was put into hishands to read. He hoped the House would not r emit such a system any longer to prevail; it was opposed to all Parliamentary precedent, and was not conducive to the efficiency and elevation of Parliamentary Government.

Major Atkinson repelled the insinuation regarding the preparation of the Financin' Statement, which he said had been solely hU own work, and had cost a great deal of labor. Of course he had to acknowledge the assistance of the officers of the Treasury ; but what were they there for but to post Ministers up in information. Notwithstanding the uncalled-for insinuations thrown out against Ministers not being acquainted with the affairs of the country, he could assure honorable opposite that, speaking for himself—and he re gretted to be compelled to speak in that strain —he was not afraid to face any of the honorable members opposite, and he felt sure that his colleagues were of the same opinion as him self, and were quite prepared to be. judged by their acts. The sooner honorable members put them to the teat, the better. Mr Luckie pointed out that the document read by the Native Minister bristled with figures regarding lands bought, leased, and under negotiation in different parts of the Northe'-n Provinces, and he cared not whether the Minister who dealt in such complicated statements was qualified to adorn St. Stephens or not, it was necessary that such figures should be laid fully and clearly before the House, and that could not properly be done unless by printed documents. The hon. member then proceeded refer to what the member for Auckland City West had done in another place, by reading from printed documents, a statement a great deal simpler than that made by the Native Minister. Mr Reynolds explained that as far as his Marine Statement was concerned, he had read it because It was the wish of the House last session that he should do so. He could however assure hou. members that if they chose to go into the marine and other matters dea’t with, they would find he was well up to his work.

Mr T. Kelly said there could be no objection whatever to printing and th**n reading these statements, as they were merely departmental reports.

Mr Murray asked Ministers if they will, this session, introduce a measure to facilitate the construction of railways by local or private enterprise. Mr Richardson said the Government had realised tae necessity for such a Bill, and would be in a position to introduce one in a few days — (Hear, hear.) Mr Montgomery asked for the latest return in possession of the Government showing the annual amount of rateable property in each road district and municipality in the Colony. It was highly desirable that hon, members should be possessed of such information to enable them to form a better opinion regarding the abolition measure.

Major Atkinson promised to obtain and print the information asked for. Leave was given to introduce the following Bills, which were read a first time;—A Bill for securing the copyright of Press telegrams (Harrison); Bill for relief of debtors, and for the better security of creditors; Bill for Punishment of Fraudulent Debtors ; Bill to amend Bills of Sale Act, 1867 (Bowen). Mr Bowen made a statement regarding the stamp duties, to the effect that. In consequence of the complicated state of the law for stamp duties, the Government had deemed it necessary to appoint a Commission to inquire into these duties. Their report followed the inquiry, wxd the result w is this Bill, based oa the Enjlish Stamp Duties Act and Stamp Duties Management Act, passed in 1870. These two Acts have been incorporated into one, and while such modification has been made as necessary to suit the somewhat different machinery and different scale of taxation in force in this Colony, the wording of English Acts has been preserved as far as possible, in order to render the decisions of English Courts of use In the interpretation and administration of the law in the Colony. There are no alterations of the scale of dnties now in foree, except in cases where the existing law is of doubtful meaning, or where inconsistency appears to bare crept in owing to several Acts having been parsed at different times. The only exception to this appears in the introduction of mortgages in the schedule as a source of revenue. One departure from the law of England is that, when a person brings an instrument to be stamped, it is no duty of the Stamp Office to insist on payment of proper duty, but only to place on the instrument such duty as the person requires. The inducement to pay the right duty is sought in the provision by which an instrument insufficiently stamped is rendered unavailable in a court of law. Thus on one hand the Crown loses part of its just claim unless necessity arises for producing the instrument in Court and on the other a doubt is raised as to the validity or utility of an instrument affecting private rights, which may only come to light at a remote period, and may possibly become the occasion of future litigation. The Bill has been so worded that the proper duties shall always be assessed by the Stamp Office, sub ject to an appeal to the Supreme Court, and that an instrument stamped with the Commissioners stamp shall be available in law whether the right duty thereon h*s been paid or not. In respect to duties on the estates of deceased persons, the Board recommend a fundamental change. In the present law, succession, legacy, and residuary duties arc evaded to an immense extent in this Colony, and notwithstanding that a large and com. plicated system of registrartiou and bookkeeping has been elaborated for their collection, The main cause for this loss of revenue is thai a long time is allowed to elapse before the ac counts of estates of deceased persons an wound up, and by the fluctuating nature of thi population, which enable persons to realise tb« estates and disappear beyond the trace of tin Stamp Office, therefore no duties on the-i estates can be successfully collected unless th< payment is required before the issue of ad ministration. This is the principle on whicl the Act of the Colony of Victoria i based, and it is incorporated into th Bill submitted. The duties are regarded as a debt due by deceased persons t the Crown, and are made payable out of th estate before all other debts or claims. Th share of the duties is borne by the several pei sons to whom the property descends, settled b the administrator in the distribution of th estate. It is worth while pointing out, in evi denoe of the great simplification of which th law was capable, that fifteen obmse had been sufficient to deal with subject, which occupied eighty-seven clause of the Act of 1866. The Board re commended that probate! legacy, Buccessior and residuary dues bo abandoned, and replace by one duty on the estates of deceased persons As regards the amount of this duty, it ha been attempted to accommodate in the tab] the two principles expressed in the New Zei Irtmd and the Victorian laws. By the forme, the rate of . duty is made to depend on the ri lationship of the person to whom, to the pe ton frdm whom, the property eseends by ft

lattesr, the rate depends solely on the amount of *he property, without regard to relationship, except that widows and children pay only half duty. The schedule submitted relieves widows, -is at present, from all duty charges ; direct lescendauts and strangers in blood with a uniform dutv nearly the same as at present, with ,mt respect to the amount of property, am charges persons of intermediate degrees of consanguinity in proportion both to the amount of proper ‘.v and to relationship to the deceased. Mr Bunny hoped that the Government would see their way clear to get out the clauses referring to mortgages. hey should begin to iook for raising their taxes from the wealth of the country. In other respects the Bill was a great improvement. Mr Sheehan said that in the face of our rapidly increasing revenue wo should not seek mt fresh sources of revenue, though that eemed to be a weakness of most Governments, In other respects he would support the Government to carry the Bill through the House. Mr T. L. Shepherd did not see that the taxes objected to pressed at all unduly upon poor people. It was a decided improvement upon the old Acts.

Mr J, Shephard trusted the Government would excise the clauses as recommended. Mr Tribe fully agreed with the member for Wairavapa. The clauses ha referred to were very objectionable. Mr Murray said that they should be very careful how they imposed fresh taxation while their necessities did not require it. If, how>ver, they desired to go m that direction, hey should levy upon the wealth of the country, Mr Mervyn congratulated the Government upon supplying a want felt for a long time by consolidating the stamp laws. He could not hold with honorable members that the duties taken exception to were any very great hardship upon any one. Ho trusted, however, the lovomment would give the House an opportunity of going carefully through the various clauses of the Bill. Mr Hunter said he understood that while they might affirm the advisability of consolidating the various stamp laws, they might deny the mode of taxation proposed. There vas one thing he must point out: no case had been made out to justify increased taxation.

Mr Luckie said one great beauty of the Act was the duty on mortgages. The hon. member proceeded to pcint out why it was more desirable to tax mortgages than promissory notes. It was one of the weakest arguments that could tie used to say your were taxing the necessities of the people in taxing mortgages. The tax on iiromiasory notes and bills of exchange was really more a tax upon the necessities of the people than that upon mortgages. Although he must take exception to the charges on the 'dace of emolument in Municipal bodies and incorporated bodies, he held, that on the whole, the Billiwas an exceedingly good one. Mr May combatted the views of the previous speaker, and said he would certainly vote against the stamp upon mortgages. Mr J. E. Brown regretted that in framing this Bill the Government had not confin d itself simply to the work of consolidation. He ventured to say that by issuing five different kinds of stamps nothing but annoyance and confusion was created, especially in country districts ; and he, for one, could not see the fairies* or the necessity for such a practice. Why not make one kind of stamp do for all kinds of documents ?

Mr Montgomery and Mr W. Kelly each strongly opposed the stamp on a mortgage oond.

Mr Swanson said the practice of raising taxes by stamps was simply raising moneys out of the necessities of tho people, and allowing luxuries to go free. He recommended that a limit be fixed, so that under a certain amount mortgage deeds would not be taxed. Mr Bowen said what had fallen from hon. members showed that in the main the Bill was approved of. The Government was quite in accord with the House, and quite prepared to carry out their suggestions in Committee in tho small details referred to.

I’he Bill was ordered to be read a second time that day week.

The House rose at 5.30.

THE ABOLITION DEBATE.

On the Honso resuming at 7.30 the galleries were all densely crowded. Sir George Grey rose amid considerable applause. He commenced by announcing that this was a very groat occasion—one upon wnich all should acquit themselves as well as possible. It was an occasion upon which the Government were about to sweep away the Constitution by illegal and unconstitutional means.—(Dissent.) To clear away all doubts, he would say they had been termed Provincialists • but they were really the upholders of a great and munificent edifice, which was being thrown down and scattered about the ground. That was an image of Provincialism at present. The grand building must either be restored to its pristine vigor and beauty, or else it must crumble away Two eulogistic speeches on his side of the question had been made on tho Government benches one by tho Treasurer, and the other by the guide and \)rotcctor of the Ministry, the member for Timorn —(Laughter.) Thehon. gentleman then proceeded to relate tho history of granting the first Constitntiou to New Zealand, which was at a period when the savage enemy was close to the present site of Wanganui. C pou his solo responsibility, and without counsel or advice, ho took upon himself what few men would have done, and sent back Home that Constitution and all the documents connected with it, and then they got their second Constitution; aud there was not a single danse in that Constitution that he did not ponder and brood over, and he took counsel from friends and foes alike. lie dared not in the interest of tho people of New Zealand divulge his plans, or the result of his earnest considerations ; but having, after duo deliberation and CTeat care, decided upon those plans, he sent them Home, and he made bold to say that all and each of them were endorsed and approved of at Home, with but trivial alteration. Let him compare the confidence he then exhibited with that displayed by tho persons new subverting the Constitution. Let him look on the Opposition benches, and he would see men whom any man might be proud to call colleagues, and who, he ventured to say, would never have landed them into such a position as the present men at the head of theTiovoriiment had done ; these men, who, after having been buffeted on one cheek, turned the other to be buffeted also He had been taunted about the power placed in the hands of the half-dozen fishing villages: but look what these fishing villages had become—how like heroes, they had sprung up to the spur and appealed to them. Look at the roads with which they had ramified the country, often against an armed foe. Look at their great public works, their thriving towns, their mountains pierced. Look at more than he could enumerate of industry and enterprise-and say, had he unwisely assisted the people of Wellington, Otago, and Auckland in working out their own destiny. He had been twitted with having prepared the Consti tution i« a cottage ; bat he appealed to that same Constitution, and would ask them what riffht had a /mim i-w U T 1 a i ■ « ... v

the country been defrauded of by that Constitution though prepared in a cottage ? Look what had arisen from that cottage—look at the hall in which they now stood. Hod anything ever proceeded out of that House equal to what had proceeded from the Constitution P The Treasurer had told them he might have repealed the second section of the Constitution Act, but he could inform that hou. gentleman that he (Sir George) had issued a proclamation, a few years after passing the Constitute! 11 ; that repealed that section; and yet that Minister offered to introduce a clause into tho Abolition Aot repealing that section. Ho thought ho then heard a schoolboy speak, but, however he would accept that offer, and allow it to go down to all time as a stamp of those who made it. Commenting on the illegality of the course proposed by the Government, he would repeat what he had said before ~ that tho Government, having once given a right to tho people, could not take one iota away from them. The hon. member tor Timaru, in contradiction of this, had reminded him of the case of Jamaica, and intii ha<l ke P t that fact from the P?^ So J.hut; he feared that memory and reason hod aken flight from the hem. member for Timaru. If took away one Constitnga,ve them another one better adapted to the existing state of society. Referring co the opinion of the Attorney-Generai (the present the Government sought to fortify their action, he told the House and the Government that such a spectacle should am* .aye been seen as a Chief Justice letter to a Minister of Justice, beginning -My dear Bowen " or My dear." aSythhm else. What he should have said, when asked or his opinion, was, “ You have had for my opinion as Attorney-General. If you want It as Chief Justice you must got it. upon tho Bench oi Justice, in a proper and constitutional way ” They were told Parliament always contemplated abolitioii by its action regarding the vVestland Aot • but he did not believe that, and so great was his con fidouco in the Courts of Justice in the country that he believed they would one clay see tho Attorney-General giving one opinion,, and the Chief Justice another, totally different Grave constitutional questions would naturally ■irise out of a case of that kind, and it would bo ruled (bv Judges that the charters of the Province:; were charters of liberty. Turning to another phase oi the ease, he maintained with all possible deference that the name of his Excellency should not hay<

I been oonjded With a rftoaflui'e Whieh was an out i ageous brooch of the maxim that the Qovemmati ■ should never take away liberties of the people i - the• smallest degree. He could not but raise hi - protest against such an unlawful and uuconstitn tioaal proceeding as selling the Constitution by a number of hands held up at public meetings for u;,--unlawful bribes held out for the people. Instead of this, why not refer the matter to the Suporinten dents, who wore elected by the large bodies o people? Who were those most bent upon carrying this measure but the neglected of th people, such as the Premier of the Colony (Di Pollen), who stood for the Superintendent of Auckland, and had to retire like a suai l within his shell. The same with the Colonial Treasurer, who was also rejected by that which he would destroy, but which no unconsciously argued so strongly in favor of. Looking round that House, he found in it a glorification of the Provincial sys tom. There were men present who would have been great ji the annals of any country—men who ; in Provincial Councils, paid more minute and careful attention to expenditur ■ than was ever seen in that House.—(‘‘No, no.”) Hcsaid“Yes.” Tollhim not such a tale. He would ask what had become o’ the L 500.000 for purchasing laud ? Where were th, particulars re warding that expenditure? where the private estate amassed—the fees—the rewards r Why, he had seeu one item alone of L 9.800 paid for services rendered for the sale of debentures ; aud to whom was that paid P Yet, tho Treasurer had the bad taste to deal with such questions by quoting to the House, from n book called “ Pig Philosophy/’ an extract couched in vulgar phrase, arid unworthy o~ that House. This was a groat occasion—the greatest, perhaps, that ever would be seen in the annals of the country; and ho hoped, sptaking o; that other branch of the Legislature, that if it were true to its duties and allegiance to its Queen, it would never consent to such on illegal aud uncon stitutional sweeping away of tho people’s rights. Coming to the financial part of the scheme, the Treasurer had told them there would be a deficiency on the present year. Two distinct statements regarding tho revenue had been made, and ho could accept what he liked, bat the latter he considered tho true one, namely, that there was a deficiency. But, under the present system of account-keeping, it was easy to make any surplus you pleased. Charging constabulary cottages, and one thing and another, against loans enabled them to c:.rry on a surplus from one year’s end to another. It was n deception, he maintained, aud it would bo found that there would be a great deficiency that, iu fact, tho Colony was a lump of debt from one end to th: other. What must be tho result of this P Tho Colony would soon see that it had been deluded, and that those deluding bribes held out to them would never roach them, because it was not in the funds of the Colony to pay it. Had a real politician and able man devised the Financial Statement, they might have expected a plan showing care and consideration to relieve the burdens of the people : but they had more taxes looming out before them now. They had a perpetuation of the monstrous and abhorrent system which now had beer, going on for years. Look bow they proposed to treat the miners—the real pioneers of the Colony. In some respects sheep were pioneers too, in clearing away Native growth. Well, tho Government looked at tho miners and others in the same light—as only fit to be shorn, and already they were shorn too closely. He would boldlv say that the real meaning of tho Government measure was the tyranny of class legislation. He had been accused of endeavoring to create a 'democracy, but he endeavored to create a healthy and intelligent Op position. Well, look what they had now, and what they might have had. Had a different course been adopted, instead of the deln-cve aud fatal course they had been pursuing, they might have had people instead of sheep—smiling homesteads, happy families, '.ind well-cultivated farms. Instead of thousands of acres owned by one person, they might have hod a numerous, happy, and contented community, able to support themselves within themselves without borrowed millions and excessively high-salaried officials. But no; they preferred, with a monkey-like spirit oi mischief, to destroy what they could not create; to promise what they could not fulfil, Well, it was for these reasons ho asked for some delay—a delay reasonable, equitable, and absolutely uecessary. Let them but grant this most just request, and they might stay the mischief and calamitous consequences which must necessarily ensue from their present unseemly haste.—(Loud up plans..).. Sir Donald M'Lean said not even the most ardent Provincialist ever imagined the Provinces were to bo permanent. They had resulted iu angry contests for power. The Assembly should have defined the powers of the Provinces. The Colony wns kept in a constant state of conflict through Sir George Grey's alarm. They had been told tho Assembly had no power. They had the authority of tho people.—(Loud cheers.) That power came with overwhelming force from the country —(loud cheers)—and said that Provincial institutions must disappear t»nd give way to local self-government, when the people will have a protected voice and tho management of their own all airs. It was ridiculous to suppose that settlement was created by Sir George Grey’s action in framing the Constitution. The natural hardihood and energy of the people of Of ago and Canterbury alone produced the present results. The consolidation of tho loans was another great blow. There was really nothing now f o do for the nine Provinces. When the Provinces were in such a condition as Axckland admittedly was, it was better for the people they should cease. Their sweeping away would bo creating public opinion which would make itself felt from one end of the Colony to the other. He reiterated that his statement was a true and correct statement as to the finances of the Colony, which the Opposition have yet to admit. Was it to be supposed the people wore not to be consulted? Were public meetings no criterion at all of the public feeling? He defended T)r Pollen, and said his twenty-five years’ devotion to the affairs of the Colony deserved more re-pect. Major Atkinson hod had previous experience as a Minister ; and as to Mr Bowen, though young and new to official life, he gave every promise to make a useful Minister, and of making his name. Boforving to Sir George Grey’s reference to tho Chief Justice, lie denied that the latter was asked to give an opinion. Ho was going to twist what passed into a communication between the Government and tho Chief Justice, with a view of prejudicing possible legal proceedings. rr >With references to the credit of the Colony, nothing more greatly enhanced its stability than tin abolition of the ’Provinces. Lot them have one united Colony, and do awny with fragmentary divisions, for which no necessity existed; land that end was sure tojresult. The Provinces were always regarded by statesmen at Home as extended municipalities. The Government proposals were clear and commend, able, and did not in any way panelea to public sympathies. He was sorry to find an attempt made now i to introduce class legislation. Tne Government i proposals recognised no class, but regarded all equally. (Cheers.) Mr Reader Wood, who was received with loud Opposition cheers, would not attempt to follow tho two last speakers as to the wisdom of tho introduction of the original Constitution, as it had nothing to do with the present question. The legality of tho course new pursued wis exhausted. It had been treated with extraordinary ability by Sir George Grey, and iu the very opposite way by Ministers. Unless they could show they were acting within tho four corners of the Constitution Act, it was simply wasting time for Ministers and supporters to misinterpret the Attorney-GeneraTs opinion. It was culpable negligence on the part of tho Government not to take his advice, lie quoted Mr Gillies's opinion as to thepower of fke Assembly to deal with the question, and referred to past attempts to alter the Constitution, which attempts were Invariably followed by legislation to set at rest doubts which each attempt called into existences Now more than ever, would be found that suoh doubts exist. The Government proposals were bribes to support centres of population at the expense of the country. The question was abolition pure and simple. His duty was very clear. If, in the smal est degree, the Bill represented his views, the only duty for him was to

vote for it; but its finance showed it was so largely mixed up with the finances of the Colony, and had so little connection with abolition, that ho must vote against it. 1 1 must be admitted by the public at large, and the House, that the Provinces totally failed to carry out their original intention. If they wanted to find financial conditions a scandal to the country, they need not go to Auckland ; they could find that nearer home. Exactly opposite was the case in Auckland, which was like a good man struggling with adversity. Ho admitted that for a few months there was a little derangement of Auckland’s finances, owing to the Superintendent’s death. The Auckland Government, after the interregnum, astonished the people by telling them the truth, and drew in the reins, resisting all pressure; and now what was the result?

fihere was actually a credit at the bank; yet the Colonial Treasurer knew nothing about it. Was this Province, then, to be held np as a scandal when it had drawn on its finances and cut its coat according to its cloth, and acted like an honest man should act ? Supposing the Province had been unable to pay its way, whoso fault was it ? Why, the fault of the Assembly in reducing its Customs revenue, first to five-eighths, then to three-eighths, then to a capitation grant, which has gradually been reduce Ila fifteen sh.llinga. He told thcJScmthorn members that, if they allowed this Bill to pass, and mco allowed the Government of the country to get their hands upon their land fund, as surely as Auckland’s share of the Customs revenue had vanished, bq surely would the hand fund of the South bo swept into the maelstrom of Colonial finance. The Abolition Bill abolished nothing!but Provincial Councils. Why not vote on the Estimates, subsidies to road boards and municipalities, and leave the Bill till next year, when all doubts might be settled on the question of abolition. Mr Wood criticised the higb-banded action of the Government in saying the measure was good whether constitutional or not; but if the Act was disallowed by tier Majesty’s advisers, who would bear the reproach y The hon. member reviewed the Financial Statements of last session, when Sir J. Vogel said wo had plenty of money in the treasury to meet •n-erything required for the next year ; bnl when he got Home he found he had tc raise L 3,000,000 at once. That was deception, avt clearly indicated a disaster looming ahead. Lal'i year he had expressed certain views on abolition ana had this Bill been at all in Conformity wiUt them he would have voted for it. The hon. mem x xv ll P roce ßded to state, in reply to the taunts that the financial state of Auckland was a scandal to the Colony, that with all her poverty, groat

it was, bLjb owed not a sWiling. There wm not ae unliquidated claim against her, simply /■■cause, whou the real state of their purse vas ascertained, they resolutely declined to iicur liabilities they could not meet; and if .aieklaiid was embarrassed it was alone the fault of lie House. If they passed the Abolition Bill in tts present form it would plunge the Colony into a uaclstrom of financial difficulties. It was idle to /til this an Abolition Bill; it was merely substituiug another name—that of Provincial districts, •’he steorotyped form of lands was still reamed. True they would not have Superintendents, but they would have satraps in ibeir place, nominees of the General Government. He could not disguise from himself that the real object of the Bill was to cover an enormous deficiency in revenue, and that to pass it would throw the finance of the Colony into inextricable confusion.

Mr Tyke regretted that elequencowaa not always i convincing argument, and that was the case that /veiling. With all the eloquence displayed nothing .ad been said to influence a single vote in favor of he existing institutions. The position was exactly what it had been described to be years ago by the i u. member for Avon when going to that House, ■lamely, that the whole country was overgovemed md a radical change wag required. Still, with all '.ho necessity for change, he contended that as they iiorc the burden of Provincialism for twenty years, I'.hey could stand it six months longer, so as to have mmistakeably the voice of the people with them on jo momentous n question. He bescached them not S' ■ bo hasty—it they were not afraid of the verdict if the country why not wait for it P He hoped the Orovermnont woula do this. Whatever good Provincial institutions had worked once, latterly they iad altogether fulled to do so; having degenerated into centralism of the worst kind. As an instance, ,-old was discovered in Gabriel’s Gully in 1861, audit was 1874 before the main rood to that place wns completed. As for all the clap-trap he heard about weeping away the Constitution, it was Simply making a fetish of it. As for a Superintendent representing large numbers of the people, he had only me vote in the Executive Council, and no more than a member representing only a few electors ; perhaps, in fact, he was simply Chairman of the Executive Council. He ridiculed the idea of the colonists been a down-trodden lot. One of the chief •ensons which made him support the Bill was be presence of the land clauses relating to the land iuud; without those provisions he would oppose t tooth and nail. To do otherwise would be aiding repudiation. Doubtless the compact had been broken in many essential points, but tbe best stand must now 'tbe made to preserve the honor and credit of the Colony. He trusted that every member of the House, including Sir George Grey, would assist in{ making the Bill a complete and beneficial measure.

Mr Thomson, in a long speech, strongly opposed the Bill, which he said should have beenjmought down by the member for Timaru. ThdfcjMstry ought to have resigned and allowed Mr Srajrod to form a new Ministry and introduce the Bill. He twitted the Government with having oriurinally taken office as conservers of Provincialism, hut now they changed their minds and coolly asked the rest of the House to change theirs also and follow them. Ho condemned tie-management of public works, of finance, and the way in which Ministers neglected their official duties, and generally reiterated the leading arguments used against the Bill by the Opposition members.

Mi- O’Conor moved the adjournment of the House at 12.25.