THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Evening Star, Issue 3878, 29 July 1875, Page 2

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

[By Telegraph.]

Wellington, July 28. In the House of Representatives, Sir Gtorge Grey presented a petition praying to amend the Auckland Corporation Act. The interim report of the Debates Committee has been read. The general effect is that debates not of political importance be reported in condensed form, and that the practice of reprinting extract matter introduced into speeches be discontinued. This is done with the object of relieving the Hansard staff, bo as to enable them to report in extenso important political debates, and to enable the printer to issue Hansard more speedily. Mr O'Neill hoped the House would not agree to the report. Mr Bunny also opposed it, and objected to leaving; such powers to reporters. Mr Harrison said the speeches were reported too fully; fuller, than in any other ' Hansard.'

Mr Creighton thought the matter ought to be left in the hands of the chief reporter. Mr Atkinson also disagreed with the report, and thought the better way to meet any difficulty would be to limit the time allowed members to speak. It was most important that a full report of their views should go before the Colony, this being the last Parliament. Mr Joseph Shephaid would be satisfied if the practice hitherto pursued in reporting would be continued, but he was opposed to the recommendations contained in the report.

MrMervyn strongly opposed giving «Hta--Ba*J* reporter* such power as proposed. Mr Fitzherbert warmly opposed the report r' roni what he had already notioed. it appeared that the proposal of the report had been already »nticipated, inasmuch as there weie the moat flagrant: instances that some irresponsible person had assumed this most enormous power over reports. Mr Luckie said the l»Bt speaker said either too much or too little, and some action ought to be taken either to verify or disprove Mich injurious statements being made. As a member of the Reporting Committee, he knew of nothing of the kind being done. Mr Wakefield said the reporting gave great satisfaction hitherto, and he hoped the present practice would be allowed to continue.

The Speaker explained that any mistakes made and complained of would always be rectified. The report waß then withdrawn. The Native Minister asked for leave of ab* sence for Sir J. Vogel for the remainder of the ssssion.

Mr Sheehan thought the Government ought to have accorded a little more information to the House as to the exact position now occupied by Sir J. Vogel, though he would be the last person to refuse such a request on his behalf, as the Colony was cerWuly greatly indebted to him; but considering the large and important trust Confided at present to Sir J. Vogel, having, in fact, the destinies of the Colony in his hands, it was highly important the House should be satisfied Bii J. Vogel occupied a position that could not hereafter be traversed,

Mr Wilkinson said the Native Minister had already explained the poßiticn of the Ministry, of whose perfectly constitutional character he had no shadow of a doubt. As for the appointment of Sir J. Vogel as Postmaster-General, there never was any doubt that they had endeavored to act, under the circumstances, in a constitutional manner, and were satisfied on that point. Those who held * different opinion were at liberty, if they chose, to appeal to a Court of Law.

Fitzherbert said it was the opinion, dace the Marquis of Normanby came to the Colony, that bir J. Vogel ceased to be a Minister, and that was just the point upon which the Minister for Immigration afforded no information at ' ij? he was "S ht » a ver / grave question would be raised as to the legality of the authonty Sir J. Vogel used at Home, and which, upon several occasions, he strained to the very utmoßfc. He would ask them at once what would be the effect ou the House of Commons if the Ministry opened the House without the Premier because he was ill, and announced that he had been appointed to an inferior position ? Would it satisfy the House to tell them they had consulted the very highest legal authority in the kingdom ? There was no want of proper feeling in the House, but he must say the Government had not taken proner steps to accomplish their end. The honorable member Baid, without making any j ersonal allusion, he had found in his experience that serious maladies said to be due to severe mental labors vanished in a marvellous way by the application of a little Belf-denial, and that without any diminution ef the mental strain. Referring to Sir J. Vogel, he was at a lobs to understand how he could transact the most important business by daily telegram, and more wonderful still, for a man with his peculiar complaint to conduct an angry correspondence, and yet he could not make a short B ea voyage. He would press on the Ministry the gravity of their position, for he did not believe the present Colonial Ireasurer was legally Colonial Treasurer, and that when Sir Julius Voyel at Home exercised the power of Colonial Treasurer, he was no more than an ordinary member of the Houße. If a Minister could stop away for a whole session, wandering about the world, without affecting the Government, the quicker they passed Borne law to alter that state of things the better.

Mr Stafford said the question appeared to be assuming a grave ( onstitutionai aspect, especially when the member for the Hutt threw out doubts as to the position of the PostmasterUeneral. He could not but regret that the hon. gentleman had never unburnned himself of those grave Constitutional doubts during the last seven years. The hoH. gentleman then jeeredlto 1867 and 1868, when the member for the Hutt was appointed Colonial Treasurer, and was not sworn in by Governor Bowen. Ine hon. gentleman then pointed out to the House the great difference in the wording of the Marquis of Normanby's commission corneal ed with previous ones, and Buggested that the altesation was made with some objecturn in view, or if not it largely affected the position of Sir J. V«geL As for any doubtß as to Sir J. Vogel being the Postmaster General, he had none whatever. If there were any doubts at all, it mußt be as to whether he was a member of the Executive, The hon. gentleman then detailed what had been done in 1868 regarding the Ministry to which he had the honor to be the head, and how on that occasion he consulted the i\ttor-nty-General so as to remove all doubts, and afterwards obtained an opinion of an important legal authority, and stated both concurred that the point was difficult to decide, and recommended as the safest course that the Ministry be sworn again. > There was a compact Opposition then, and it never questioned Mr Fiteherbert'a position as Treasurer. He deprecated the impugning tone of the member for the Hutt, as if seme monstrous novelty was being done.

*v Gco, G , rey recaU «<* to the recollection of the House that the powers of the Governor and alse of the General Assembly, were limited to the confines of these islands, and when the Assembly made an appointment, it was only to run as far as the shores of New Zealand, and not one mile farther. He would go further, and say that the Governor had no power to call persons residing out of the Colony to fill offices in the Executive Council of New Zealand, and Sir J. Vogel could not hold any appointment save that of agent. He could not help saying that a great many illegal and unconstitutional acts were done, and admitted to be done, by the Government. Why, for instance, had the country been deprived of so necessary an officer as the Attomey-General ? Such unconstitutional acts ought not to be toleratedby the Assembly: theyshouldnot allow the Governor to hare any control over persona outside the Colony. It appeared to him that all these things were done solely with a view to strengthen the party in power. He hoped some honorable gentlemen would n.ove a resolution to protect the constitutional rights of the peoplo by not appointing, as member of the Executive, a person outside of the Colony. air Bunny pointed out the difference between the circumstances cited by the member for limaru and the present case. The Minister of Justice Baid the Government were very anxious when the calamity happened to Sir J. Vogel, because it wsb a calamity to place the Government in a strictly legal position, and in the absence of any written law, beoauße these constitutional forms have, as it were, broadened down from precedent to precedent, and the precedent they followed was thai afforded by the case of the member for Hutt, when Colonial Treasurer. He regretted they could not deal with such a simple matter a* that without endeavoring to raise constitutional doubts, and without personalities. As for the appointment of the Attorney-General, that would be submitted to the Hotae shortly. Mr Header Wood said it appeared to him that it was with the Ministry as Shakeßpore put it, " trould it were bedtime, Hal, and all were well." They deprecated personalities and discussion, and indeed everything seemed to make them uncomfortable ; but he assured the Ministry that, although Sir J. Vogel could be dictatorial and snappish when he chose, and although the House (and himself included) had always put up under it in some unaccountable manner, that the mantle of Sir J. Vogel had not fallen upon any of his colleagues, and the House would not be dictated to by the present Ministry. The honorable member then referred to the repoits in circulation that the honorable member for Timaru was really leader of the present Ministry, and that it waa through his influence two members of the Ministry, were appointed, namely, the Minister of Justice and Minister of Immigration. He agreed with the member for Timaru in the present critical position of the country, it was the duty of every member to cast parties aside for the sake of the country. He could not go about the country boasting he had four* teen or fifteen votes he could send into this lobby or that. His vote was in his own hands, and as he was pledged to no party, he intended

to give it for the Government when in the right, and when he thought them wrong. Mr Johnston wished for some opinion fr< m the Ministry as to the doctrines laid down by the member for Auckland City West. Mr Rolleston thought the member for Timaru unintentionally misled the House in referring to the words of the Commission, as betook a very opposite view of the matter. He held that, according to all Constitutional precedent, a Ministry ceased to exist after the death or loss of its ehief. As far as Sir J. VogePs leave of absence was concerned, they would be benefited if it was extended indefinitely, as he had more confidence in the present Ministry without Sir Vogel J. than with The Native Minister gave an emphatic denial regarding the statement that the member for Timaru controlled th» Ministry. The question was then put, and of absence granted without any dissentient voice. July 29. Upon the House resuming at 7.30 p.m. last night, Mr T. L. Shepherd's Goldnelds Act, providing for the pollution of rivers by miners, was read a seccrnd time, the Government stating that the Bill went in the same direction as they wished to legislate in. Mr Maoandrew also thought the Bill was in the rikht direction, but said it did not go far enough. At the request of the Government the second reading of Mr Fitzherbert's Harbor Reserve Bill was also postponed. A resolution that the House go into Committee of Supply was ordered to be considered to-morrow.

Mr Wood asked if the Government had an authoritative opinion as to the powers of legisLegislature to abolish the Provinces, as grave doubts existed. Mr Gillies had first directed his (Mr Wood's) attention to the fact, he (Mr Gillies) thiaking the Legislature did not possess the power. Mr Wood said the Constitution Act, by its third Beetien, says there must be Superintendents and Provincial Councils, and no power had subsequently been given to the Assembly to upset that clause. The Speaker ruled that Mr Wood was introducing a debateable question, -which was not allowed when asking a question. The Native Minister Baid the Government had no doubt whatever that the Assembly had full power to abolisn the Provinces. They had taken the opinion of the present Chief Justice, and had laid the said opinion on the table. Some amusement was caused by its appearing that while the Attorney-General thought the Assembly had the power, he thought it desirable that the opinion of the law officers in England should be taken, in order to set at rest all doubts. Sir George Grey asked that the opinion be produced. . Mr Fitzherberbert moved that it be printed in parallel columns with the Judge's opinion referred to by Sir G. Grey, namely, that the only power possessed by the Legislature was that of altering the boundaries of Provinces. The Native Minister promised to lay the opinion on the table. In reply to Mr Murray, the Native Minister said the Government had not taken any steps to obtain the opinion of the Imperial law officers on the matter.

In reply to Mr Kolleston, Major Atkinson said there was no more correspondence relating to the four million loan, and consequently he could not lay it upon the table, but he would be happy to lay upon the table the despatch asked for—namely, that from the Duke of Newcastle, dated 31st December, 1873, having reference to Crown Agents. Ho would also ask that it be printed. In reply to Mr Wales the Government said the financial statement could be brought down on Friday next and the abolition, insolvency, stamps, and other Government _ measures as soon after that as possible; but he did not think that would be on the same evening. Mr T. L. Shepherd's motion regarding the establishing of an Institute of Civil Engineers to prevent unqualified persons practising as railway engineers, was negatived on the voices, the Government not seeing its way to do anything in the matter. On the motion of Sir George Grey, the Native Minister gave an assurance that the Government would cause a commission to be held at the Thames promptly to inquire into the alleged illegal issue of miners' rights at the opening of Ohinenmri, and that the report would be forthcoming before the close of the present session. Mr Kolleston moved for a return of all corlespondence relating to the recent distribution of Judges. He considered that the proceedings were a blow at the liberty and independence of the Supreme Court Judges. He thought probably they had been done with a good enough intention. Mr Bowen said that there were none more jealous of the independence of the Judges than the Government. No shadow of blame had been imputed to any of those distinguished gentlemen, and the Government hoped, with the advice and assistance of the Judges themselves, to make arrangements which would fully provide for their treedom. All the correspondence on the subject would be tabled as soon as possible. Mr Wales and Mr T. L. Shepherd supported the action of the Government in distributing the Judges as sound in principle, beneficial to the Colony, and calculated to make the Judges more independent than they were under the old arrangement. Tho other business was unimportant, and the House adjourned at 9.30 p.m. In the House of Representatives Mr Stafford presented a petition from Timaru in favor of abolition of the Provinces.

Mr Murray gave notice of motion that it would Dot be prudent to proceed with the Estimates until after receiving the report of the Finance Committee. The Speaker said the Finance Committee was a non-political body, and could not inquire into such a question. The Native Minister gave notice to ask for leave to introduce to-morrow the Leeal Government Bill and other Government measures. ( Ypplause.) Mr Reynolds, in reply to a question from Mr George M'Lean as to whether the Government used cypher in Bending cablegram!, said the Government did so sometimes, butwere guided by circumstances, as experience had shown them it was not always desirable to use cypher.