THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Evening Star, Issue 3874, 24 July 1875, Page 2

THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

(By Telegraph.) {From our own Correspondent.)

. In.the Honse, Mr Williams presented a petition largely signed, praying the Assembly not to agree with lire recommendation of the Auckland X rovrncral Council to impose a tax on kauri gum.

In answer to Mr Wakefield’s question, whether the statement in the ‘ Tribune of the 21st inst. as the details of the Hill to be submitted to tiro General Assembly for the abolition of Provincial Governments was in any way authorised by Ministers, namely, “ One of tne first clauses of the Abolition Bill, will be to name the Provinces iu which Provincial institutrons shall bo abolished, at a date to be fixed by the proclamation, and in this clause it will be found that the name of no iToyiuce either north or south is omitted. ISrr D. M’Leau said the statement was not made by authority of the Government, In answer to Mr Fyke, who asked, Ist, \v hat amount of money was at present lying in the Bank of New Zealand and its agencies te the credit of the Government ; 2nd, What rate of interest was being paid by the bank thereupon. Major Atkinson said that immediately after the House came to a decision on the Address in reply, Government would be prepared to come down with tiro Financial Statement, when they would give the fullest information on the snDject.—Mr Pyko accordingly postponed the question for a week. In answer to Mr O’Neil, Mr Richardson said no further action had been taken in reference to the formation of railways between the Waikato and the Thames,

Mr G. M‘Leau, without notice, asked if the agreement tvij,h the Bauk of New Zealand, set out In page 25 of the loan negotiations, was the agreement in force; and if the G-overnment would supply the deficiency in the agreement namely, at how many days’ sight, and at what rates the Government drafts in .England weio purchased.—Major Atkinson said if tire hon member would put his question in writing, he would get a plain answer. —Mr M'Lcan said he would do so to-moirow. Mr howen obtained leave to introduce on Tuesday a Stamp Duties Amendment Bill. In resuming the reply to the Address of the debate, Mr Murray (Bruce) complained of the inefficiency of the railways. The lines charged for freight 4 Ad to 6d per mile, against lsd on English lines; and the carrying capacity of English lines was 500 tons per train, against seventy or eighty on the New Zealand. He was informed by the Superintendent of Otago —no mean authority—that while on the Port Chalmers line, which was an inferior class line, the engines had a carrying capacity of 250 tons per train, on the Green Island section of the Southern trunk line the same engines had only a carrying capacity of eighty tons. He referred to the loan negotiations as a grave scandal. The Grown agents, in the anxiety to serve the country, had endeavored to prevent what the people would have supposed to have been a job. The real net results of the loan were 88 or 89 per cent., and ho was forced to the conclusion that either the loan had been grossly mismanaged or the Colony’s security vastly depreciated. The latter should not have lesulted, seeing the great success which had attended the policy of the Colony. He was prepared to support the simplification of Government and the reducing of the enormous expenditure of Government, While opposed to Provincialism, he was equallv opposed (o Centralism; but if Government "brought forward measures meeting with his views, ho would give them his support. A march, however, should not be stolen on the people, and if Government engaged not to press the measures to a final stage this session, he would give them all the support he could.—(Laughter.) That was the only constitutional course to be adopted. Mr M'Gillivray urged the adoption of the Address in order they might immediately proceed with consideration of the constitutional question.—Mr Thomson denied that the Address committed him to any expression of opinion, He had not had time to consider the loan papers, but a perusal of them left an uneasy impression, on his mind. Referring to the native question he said the Natives should furnish the House with a statement of native affairs. There were abroad very ugly rumors to say the lead; of them respecting the buying of native lands and leasing native lands to certain Europeans, and sooner the Native Minister disabused the public mind on these points the better.—(Sir G, Grey: Hear.) No doubt those rumors were greatly exaggerated.—(Sir D. M'Lean : Hear.) Ho complained of the Government not taking the house into its confidence last session vc Sir J. Vogel’s going Home, and Major Atkinson’s joining the Ministry, both of which must have been known to them before the prorogation. He also complained of Mr Bowen’s appointment as wrong in principle ; no one should’ go on the Ministerial benches unless he had seme experience iu the House, and was known to the House and the country, which was not the case with Mr r.owen. On the constitutional question he was not at one with Ministers. To him it mat-ten d not what Bill was conrilcred ; the constituencies ought to have an opportunity of expressing an opinion upon the question,—(Opposition cheers.) Why did not the Government put up anew member? Because inembeis were returned during the recess whose opinions did not agree with the Government on tins point. When the Homo went to the country they might find the country not with the Government on the matter.— (Opposition cheers.) Ho hoped ti.c Government would slick to a programme, and that there would be no surprises like last session,—Mr Williams intended to vole for the Addre-s, Last session he was in the minority on the abolition questions, because the resolutions did not go far enough. Abolition should extend to the whole Colony, and it was very likely, when the question came to be considered, he would be found voting for its extension to the Colony.—(Ministerial cheers.) —Mr Pyke said the language of the Address was ingenious though not ingenuous. He felt justified in voting for the Address, because he considered it not in any degree binding. Not wishing to be misconceived he intended saying a few words on two or three points. No man in the House was a more decided abolitionist than himself. For thirteen years he had publicly manifested his opinion that Proviucial Governments were a curse and a nuisauce to the country—(Hear)—and he would not be false to his colors now. Separation when prop ( )sed involved, so far at all events as the Middle Islandjwas concerned, the abolition of Provinces, and that was the main consideration which had induced persons to support separation. So far back as 1863 separation was connected with abolition, and iu 1867 he carried his convictions so far as to resign place and appointment under the Provincial Government. The expression in the address at once to carry out abolition raked grievous doubts in bis mind as to the intention of the Government. If that meant an invitation in the present session to abolish Provincial institutions there was no more uncompromising opponent of such a proposal than he himself was. It was not a question for a moribund Parliament in its last dying hours, but for the people. They wero not prepared to accept abolition, unless thev were sure of getting a genuine local selfgovernment in its place, therefore it came to mis issue : if the matter was forced to a determination this session, he would be compelled to go into tne ranks of the Provincialists the noli thpn U<i rr fc a Sl * g % fceliti s ip common with them. He was far from satisfied with the progress of Public Works, either 18 t0 quantity or quality, and doubted very much when they came to be tested if the works _ would not be found exc ediugly inferior in quality. j,' x . showed him that the San Francisco service was of no pvact'cal use to the Colony. He read mi extinct from‘i harper s Weekly’ of January las" wheiem the Pacific Company was slronnlv denounced and ho urged extreme Jure most f?v!nali'' ' "i 0 m n? on the stances ' ml Pn P * 8 l! ,!o u,lder the oircumstances, out Government would have acted more discrodly had they not allowed papers to

be laid on the tab 1 © containing recriminations between Sir J. Vogel and the Crown agents. They were not creditable to either, and certainly reflected no credit on the Colony.—Mr Bunny said no form of Government was a curse so long as the people wore the foundation. The administration of public works was grossly bad, and if they continued the policy inste.-v 1 of wisdom thsy would show insanity. Unless there was a great reform the Colony would be brought to its previous grief. Heiefirml to the llutt railway as an expensive toy, and the attempted stoppage of the Welliiurton capitation allowance as maladministration of the General Government, causing yearly a loss of LI,OOO to LI,OOO, owing to Mr Passmore’s management. Yet the Colony was importing ship-loads like him—fucking engineers and station masters—to educate up to their particular duties.—(Mr llicbardsou : “ No.”) Take any part of the Colony where Mr Passmore had exhibited his performances—everyone knew his unfitness for his position. He hoped the Home would institute a thorough and searching investigation into the matters connected with the ex penditure of the half million voted for tire purchase of Native lauds. Regarding the loan negotiations, he agreed with Mr Pyke that the Government must have exercised a wise discretion by abstaining from laying on the table a great many of the letters. A Government worthy of the name should have thrown on the Mouse the responsibility of producing such letters, which were calculated to impair the credit of the Colony, Several of the letters had been much better unwritten, but having been written had better not have been published. He thought there should be no vote on Constitutional changes this session, nor attempt to deprive the people of any rights they preserved, unless the people were desirous. The measures should be fairly discussed, first by the House, then by the people ; and if the elections showed the people wove in favor of abolition, ho would not say no ; but they must not hoodwink the people with the promise of substantial revenues; If the object of the General Government was to get possession of funds hitherto spent in making roads and bridges and to turn them into another channel to carry on the public works policy, it would be better to do without railways. Any simple system of road boards would be an utter failure. He was totally opposed to passing any changes this session,—Mr Reynolds contended that it would be a waste of time refusing to pass the Address without further debate, as the reply did not commit members to any particular line of policy, —Mr Montgomery said the last declaration got rid of any necessity for an amendment to the Address. As to railways, h-3 heard a great many lines had not made within anything like what was expected, and that the northern lines completed were not being worked sc as to give satisfaction to the people. No doubt the Minister of Works might give explanations at the proper times. Ho had carefully gone over the loan papers, and he regretted that portions of them ever came into existence, He deplored the want of official reticence in undertaking such a large financial operation. They had the three Crown Agents stating that the Treasurer said before a third party, a stranger, “ Money must be got, as the t'olony is in a mess.” — ('.’horns from Ministerial benches : “ That is denied.”) True: three gentlemen of hitherto unimpeachable veracity and high position say so, but it was denied in a letter of very great ability by Sir J. Vogel, therefore it was distinctly a question of veracity. It was unfortunate for the Colony, and greatly deplorable, that this question was ever entered into, but the Government could not refuse, as had they done so it would have been considered there was something they desired to burke. With regard to how long it was before being raised he thought, after reading the papers, that the Treasurer showed great capacity, and actually got the loan 'on most favorable terms. There was evidence in the letters that the success of raising the loan was in a great measure, though not wholly, due to him. He would render that justice to the Treasurer, as he did on all occasions, for his great services to the Colony ; but it was somewhat strange for one ©f bis great capacity and ability so far to lower himself as to give utterance to such a statement as that the Colony was in a moss.” The correspondence was in the Treasurer’s favor. Referring to abolition, he would like to know where the substantial revenues were to come f om. He cared not how good a Bill was introduced; he hoped it would not be passed without an appeal to the people. If it bo abolition at all, it must be total and not partial. He hoped the General Government, if Provincialism was done away with, wouldtake care to make a change in the constitution of the Upper House in the direction of making it electoral. He hoped no impatience would be shown to curtail the session, because the Public Works administration and the financial position of the Colony would be most closely scrutinised this session.—Mr M‘Clash,an urged an adjournment till Tuesday. He advocated immediate abolition, and said if that were done instead of nasty, dirty little Parliaments they Would have lco.il self-government throughout the land. —Mr Ward, alter the intimation Loin Ministers, had no hesitation in voting for the Address. He was at a loss to know whether we were trending.—Mr Wales thought even if there was a small minority the Government should let the matter go to the country.—Mr Brandon opposed the San Francisco service. He considered the loan negotiations decidedly unsatisfactory, and the proposd to do away with Provincialism mischievous. —Mr D'gnan said the resolutions of last fc.xsx n were anything but complimentary to the people of the North Island, who had established and maintained for the last thirty years the Qu en’a sovereignty, Auckland was the only Pro dnee where the Government was carrying on within its own resources. The House then rose.

[We have received through the Press Agency a report of the evening’s continuation cf the debate, but from pressure on our spac.: wc are compelled to hold it over. We however, refer our readers io our special correspond.-nt’s summary of the proceedings.]