GENERAL ASSEMBLY

Evening Star, Issue 3586, 20 August 1874, Page 2

GENERAL ASSEMBLY

[By Telegraph.]

Wellington, August 19. la the House of Representatives, last night, Mr Sheehan resumed the debate. He said the spectacle of Mr O’Rorke leaving the Ministerial benches was something the country should be proud of : a man voluntarily abandoning a large salary rather than go against his convictions. Another spectacle was seeing a gentleman (Mr Reynolds), once known as the watchdog of the House, muzzled on the Ministerial beaches, because, if he had spoken according te his convictions, he would not have confined himself to a few stale extracts of speeches in favor of the abolition of the Provinces. As to the inability of the Northern Provinces to carry out local Government services, he could boldly declare that the Northern Provinces were prepared to tax themselves, as they had done before, over and above Colonial requirements, sooner than abandon the privilege of local Self-Government. The hon. member referred to the manner in which the Treasurer had crippled the usefulness of the Northern Provinces by the dimini hj ;d capitation tax since I§7o, and then wished to abolish them because of their poverty. Long before the General Government had built a bridge, or made a road, the Provinces h-id been engaged in the genuine work of colonisation. He agreed with the House in the able manner in which the Minister of Works had dealt with his duties ; but hj )w many hundreds of thousands of pounds had been squandered before the Colonial Government had learned from the Provinces how to roads and bridges ? The Provinces generally had one pound go as far as two by the Colonial Government. He con tended that the House had not carried out in good faith the promise made session after session to purchase landed estate for ihe North Island from the Natives. If the divisions of the North Island were not suitable, politically or geographically, the same might be said of the South. When the Premier complimented those who managed the affairs of the North Island as btiug the tif-tesb njen to carry out the work entrusted io them, it was like a bpa gonsfrictor licking his victims all over to swallow them the easier. When the Middle Island members supported the resolution, they would find they were preparing the way for their own extinction. They would soon see that mimic rs of the North Island members would be prepared to create a Colonial landed estate, by abolishing the Southern Provinces and appropriating their land. He distrusted the figures adduced by the Premier as to the cost of the NoHV Inland. In 1872, Auckland fluent, on publuj works, LlG.OfiO, at an expenditure of LOGO ; in 1873, L78.0U0, ‘at a cost of L 3,400. C'n another occasion it spent LIO.OOO. atacost of LIOO. The total Executive cost the Province of Auckland no more than the salary of the Commissioner of Customs. They had spent more in hangings for that chamber in the last few ypais than would carry on the Government" of‘Auckland for a year. As to the goldfields st ff,’ he 'cptfid say for the Auckland goldfields revenue that,'"while Auckland ha'd received LIiS.QUO from her goldfields, she returned them L 169.000. The only reduction that could be effected by abolition would be the cost of the Provincial Government, but the ordinary charges and services would have to be paid as usual. If any’'redaction or change was required, it ought to be' ip reducing £he cost and powers of the General Government."' Apart from justice, and » few other departments', whafc had the General Government to do? The Customs and postal might bo entrusted to some respectable banking company, while N aiive matters would have been leas troublesome if the suggestion once made by the member for Rangitikei—that Superintendents sfiouid control Native affairs in their respective Provides—has hep agreed upon. Was this change demapded'hy thp public p r the Press? No - every paper in the Oniony prefaced remarks on the question by expressing surprise. If ever a man went flat in the faceof his utterances for the last twelve years, that man was the Premier. He would not be at all surprised if, next year, these proposals were abandoned, So many were his phases of opinion that be would say this ; that if the hon. gentleman brought down a proposal in shape next year, and the Provinces went with it, the hon. gentleman wo’uld go with them. Mr Tribe, was of opinion that the country was much over-governed. His constituents well knew that, when he came as an advocate of the public works policy, it was because he looked upon it as a means of giving the conutryg. boon by sweeping away Provincialism, because it fbft but little for it to do. Not a single member who opposed the resolution but afforded heaps of arguments in its favor. They, in fact, contended that you could keep nine householders at a less cost than one. Why, the amount of legislation the Provinces deluged the country with was bewildering. Ac to the cheapness of Provincial management, he could a tale unfold as to that. Never bad he seen su.h gross mismanagement as he had seen in the Province of Canterbury. It was only the force of circumstances which dragged it ou . I of the mire, and the Provincial surveys were 1 a comment upon jbheir managempnt. Scarcely a town section in Christchurch was correctly i laid down. The contractor for carrying the i mails between Canterbury and Westland 1 had a cqntracjk with one Government, but was unable to parry ifi oqt because the other Govenune&t cpuld pot repair tfifc mfy.

The gold-miners siff.rM great oppression on account of the double government. n the present ronetdntion ft e House, with the overwhelming power ..i the Superin tendents, it was almost impossible to obtain an independent individual opinion. This question had been revolved so long in all their minds that it might at any time have be' n brought down to the House and decided by a silent vote. He believed with the hon. member for Bgmont, that Provincialism Was the worst form of Centralism. He looked upon the resolution as the forerunner of the abolition of Provincialism throughout the Colony. It was a noticeable fact that those who opposed the 'resolutions strongest were the recipients of Proviunial money, even to the gentleman who moved the previous question. The land laws of the Colony and their strange complications afforded strong reasons for one supreme control. It was a most pernicious principle for the Government to raise large loans to purchase landed estate and hand it over to irresponsible Provinces. Time for the resolutions had been ripe these last ten years. Thera was no surprise—nothing revolutionary in them They had already several times altered and amend'd the Constitution. He hoped, when the Bill founded on these resolutions was brought in, it would not go beyond its second rea ling, so as to allow the retiring Parliament to go before the country.—Mr Gibbs seconded the resolution. He pointed out how few of the North Island members had opposed the measure, He would rather see an appeal to the people than any alteration in the present Ministry before the expiration of the Parliament. Probably the question would have been more fully discussed if more notice had been given, but the coming recess would prepare tlum to discuss any measure brought down very fully. Mr Murray said he foresaw, when the public works policy was brought down, that th j centralisation extravagance of the Colonial Government must end m the destruction of the Provinces. The Province of utago had a dear experience of thesis chievous policy of the hon, gentleman at the head of the Government. When Treasurer of Otago, his financing had nearly turned them all into ardeut Centralists. They escaped, however, by the hon. member betaking himself to a higher arena. While he opposed Provincialism generally as a burden upon the Colony, he would oppose the resolution for the purpose of relegating the question another year.—Mr Reader Wood said it was clear, if there was no Opposition leader, there would be an organised party opposing the Government, but they appeared as little able to frame a policy as to choose a leader. Boldly had the Government thrown down the gauntlet of battl», and though the opposition boasted of able men, well able to hold their own, not one had dared to take it up. He had been for some time forced to th© conclusion that the days of Provincialism were over. So firmly convinced was he of this, that this session he had intended bringing down resolutions affecting the question itself. He had consulted no one, and had only mentioned it to oue—the member lor Franklin—who agreed to second it. Holding these views, and having had that intent, he felt bound to give his cordial sipport to the Premier’s resolutions, vVhat was the general objection to such a simple proposal ? (Oh !) The Premier proposed that he would not make auy organic changes this session What an unconsequeatial conclusion—no change was proposed this session | More alarm could not have been expressed if the Premier had brought down a measure effecting a radical change, and asked the House to suspend the Standing Orders aud carry it through all its stages in one day. The hon. member could speak on both sides well. When he, as Provincial Secretary for Auckland, was passing the Education Act, watch was opposed by thousands of the population who petib osed the Governor, the hon. member for Rodney pooh-poohed guch an agitation. He said. Who is going to be bullied ip this way? We are doing oar duty and are not going to be deterred.” He believed, with the hon. member for Taranaki, that New Zealand had on its back now as much as it could bear, aud that alone would induce him to support the resolutions, so that the Colony stiould not come down year after year to borrow, chiefly to keep going Provinces that were p actically defunct. They were told that the Premier was not sincere, and on y angry witfi Wellington j but he for one considered he was forced into it. Tae fion. member proceeded to detail how, when the public works and immigration scheme was first proposed, he was alarmed at the mode proposed to carry it out. In conjunction with the members for Auckland City West, Eden, and others, the,, formed a nucleus of an Opposition, which grew and grew until it became strong en ugh to unseat the Government. W bat was the result of this ? That *be Jjpp member for Auckland City West, Who, tfie Opposition bench, said be oould not afford to pay Vnlhpitp.d lop with the money, when he was upon the Government benches took up their cards and accepted their stakes. The hon. member then quoted from a speech of the member for Port Chalmers, upon moving his resolutions for two Governments for the Colony (in 1871) to show that the arguments then adduced were as applicable to the situation pow. Tlje member fop fort Chalmers addid that there iieceSity for some great change when he said it would he mope stafes: mauuke to pome down with a measure to clip the wings of the General Government. All this showed that uneasiness was felt at the double government. The General Government was embarassed wi.h the Provincial Governments; the latter, in fheir turn wapted to assume supreme control. The hon. mepiber for Rpdpey abandoned his position befqre he spoffe ‘ten rpiputef He was prepared to shod thp last' drop of his brother’s blood, even hjslitllp brother’s hlopd larauaki aud Hawke’s Bay. The hon. gentleman objected to one laud law for the North Island, but he could say that when there was on.y one land law for the Colony it was the most effective they ever had. The huUr “ember proceeded to show the evil effects o- the' Pfoyiflcgs coming down every session for loans, and said sfiould feel indebted to the Upper House for jts cousiitutional action last session. The arguments from North aud £outh were these • the oouth said, “ Carry these resolutions, and it is the thm end of the wedge toabo.iah the dou heru Provinces aud take our land frem us.’’ The land Ipnd had not anything to do with Provincialism. The North said, “ You strip us of our local self-government, and you leave us nothing instead.” But neither was true, for the resolution was supported by mauy in botn islands. In the early days the Provincial Government did all the work of colouiz ition, aud did it well • but now they had delegated the work of the cities to the muuicipalities, and the work of harbors to Harbor Boards, and works in the country to Road Boards, aud the country recognised how well they did their wm k by subsidising them. This left the Provincial Govei mneuts only hospitals, lunatic asylums, and gaols. What would be the result if! to-morrow, Provincial Governments were swept away f Ihings would go on just as well. As to the impeouuiosity pt Yucklaud, he wou.d only say that last session they employed themselves parsing Vogel’s estimates, that they knew had no existence ; but when be came to this House he found a Bill for borrowing L40,(i00. Probably these estimates were passed to inpre easily enable him to raise the loap, 'feeling how embarrassing such a state of things was to the gentlejnan at the head of tho Gtrv<,rumeut. He must cm - dially supported the totoiusions,--Mr' Wil*

liamson accused the last speaker ef making unwarrantable assertions. He was not surprised at one vi ho, when contesting the Supermtendeatcy election, sang doleful dirges, and only iate ded t» decently inter the Province. Te Was proud to say that he stood up for the Province with wbidh bis whole political life lad been identified. 1 here was good in it, and he said,« Des :roy it not. ” The hon. member explained how alter assuming office he had visited all parts of the Province to discover its requirements, and had applied to the General Government for an advance to the I umping Association on the security of the limd fund. He Btatfid this m order to show that the member for farnell had made unanswerable statements regarding the L4O 000 loen, of which he knew as much as any other member of the Council. It appeared to him that, with their borrowed millions, the Colonial Government was developing an assumptive spirit, quite beyond-plain men of the Celony. They were indulging in all the mimicry «. f an Imperial Parliament. To hear members of the Government speak, one would suppose they belonged to some great empire thousands of miles away from the Provinces, and yet it was the Provinces which were keeping up that Government. Now the Provinces had not been receiving fairplay. Provincial expenditure was referred to, and be weald like to show the Minister for Works the North of Auckland, where he had never been, but yet where L60.00J had been squandered under the supervision of the Hon. Mr Katene as Civil Engineer, though he would like to know where he learned engineer.ng. What was the meaning of tho gop to Wellington regarding State Government ? Did anyone want to dispossess her of that honor? .and as to ensuring it to her now, was that likely to be binding upon their successors ? The skme might be said of tie compact of 1856. There was no law required in either case, and the leas said about ‘them the better. Though he voted for the com ? pact of 1856, and had i£ thrown in his teeth, he never regretted doing go. He was nq ultra- Troviucigliet, and w‘a« not opposed to the Government, but he felt boqud to votp against this motion j and- he only hoped the Government would reconsider the position they baa taken up, for he felt the people would not give up their privileges without a struggle, and they would find that a new class of men would come to that House who would reverse the order of things.—(Applause.)— Mr M’Glashan regarded the resolutions as merely necessary as a preliminary step towards bringing the matter under the consideration of the public. The hon. gentleman drew the attention of the House to the fact that the chief opponents to the reao'ution were the superintendents and Secretaries of Otago, Canterbury, Auckland, and Nelson. Their conduct was certainly open to the charge that they were actuated by the sweets of office. He could not be a party to placing the Government practically in the hands of a few Provincial officials, who ought to be looking after the affairs of this frovince, and not in the House at all. He had no apprehension for the Middle Island land fund, for in a few years the North Island must have a considerably greater lauded estate than the South. He supported the resolutions as what the country required. —Mr Cuthbertson would vote for the resolutions. The Provinces reminded him of the ragged regiments of soldieis sometimes seen in theatres, passing off one end of the stage, aud coming on from the other. If he had been inclined to hazardise, he o.uld not rind more arguments in favor of the resolutions anywhere that iu the dd speeches of the hon. meinbbr fdr pAVfe Ghalmers, but he held that no thinking man need be ashamed of changing his opinions What held good to-day was not true to-morrow. There never yet was reform that obstructionists would not cry out that the time was inopportune; it was never inopportune to redress grievances. If the proposal was entirely wrong, then it was inopportune in any case. The question was propounded, and thgir opinion upon its merits was .demanded. Tl)b assertwa that the Premier merely brought down the re! solut ons in a fit of bad temper through the opposition to the Forests Bill • was too childish to notice. Speaking from personal experience as to the economy of Provincialism, he had not been favorably impressed with that economy, and he was only surprised that the hon. member for Port Chalmers, who knew so much about the trials and of Southland, should pretend (;q cbaßenge the economy aud effectiveness Of the Provincial Government, The very exist) ence of the Southland Province was owing to the fact that Southland could never get a fair share of the revenue which she had been contributing to Otago. Through Ucal jealousy of Otago as against Southland, enormous aud wholly unnecessary expenditure was willingly gone to, purely out of a feelmg of jealousy. Nor were the outstanding districts of Otago proper treated much better. W*s not *he Timaru and Gladstone Hoard qf Woirks another r standing 'protect agamst centralising tendencies'of Provincial Governments ? They never would give outdistricts a tithe of the revenue raised in them. The hon. member referred ‘to the statements given by Mr J. L. Gillies as to the superior economy of Provincial Governments compared with the General Government. He denied their accuracy. When it tte PrQvinoe expended f or works, at a departmental cost Of T'd.OUO, while the General 1 Government expended L? 00 in laying out L1Q6.000 fof works, the hon. member seemed to forget that there were .only a few lines yet laid by the Province and not completed, while the General Government had actually completed a good deal of the work, and had in fact paid away last year L3OU.OUO, It was puerile to talk of the uncoust tutionality of hi*king ’a change. He -sinperely hoped all our institutions wore susceptible of grt/wtn according to the wants of the times, The object.ona to the resolutions answered themselves, because no change would be made before the country had ample opportunity of discussing the matter. It was idle for the hou member for Port Chalmers to apeak about it being evident the resolutions would W to tile spoliation of the land funds when the cqmpapf' R f TBsfi stood iptqet for ninetee» years without any attempt* tq dC: thaJ Ihi* He woul(i a P peal t0 House that this was no time to vote for the previous question, especially when the Government staked its existence upon it. Ibe question should be fought upon its merits.-Mr Hunter, speaking with thirty, five years' experience as a colonist, said the General Government hal only b.en a colour mng Government within the last four years. Before that it was merely a tax-gatherer • ail the good they did was to leave them a heavy legacy of debt from the management of Native affairs. He denied that the question had ever been before the pullic to do away with ITovincialism in one islcnd aud retain it in the other, and he believed the people would oppose it heartily. vHeicoto sidered the nutations of the seat of Govern! ment and the compact of 1856 had no connectum with the abolition. These trons would right themselves. If the S had made a bad bargain in the compact it must stand by it. No doubt the day would come whip the North Island would to pay bade any indebtedness toithe fcouthu He could notihelp thinking thediscu^illn m?rk“t° P at at i e iuju r B,y u P° u the “oney hmaea creating jv cood deal of bad feeling. While opposing the solutions,, he m HB t (jay tfiat wgaM Svfni® sincerely regretted ha\mj tbdifferxromthwfc wjthho«jhbha|

Bo long associated himself; but a rspreBeatative owed a duty to the Colony as well as to a party. He felt confident that one result of earning the resolutions would be the bringing about of uniform legislation.— At this stage the House rose. At to day’s sitting. Sir Donald M ‘Lean brought in a Bill to amend the Volunteer Act, and it was read a first time. In reply to Mr Steward, the Native Minister made a long explanation in reference to Bishop Colenso’s Maori lexicon, practically to the effect that no progress had been made in the work since last year. The Hon. the Premier, by way of a Ministerial explanation, denied that he had, either expressly or by implication, promised daring the debate on the second reading of the Loan Bill, that he wonld, in committee, consent to reduce the amount of short-dated debentures. Mr Vogel also made a correction in regard to his statement as to there being no precedent for Mr O’Korke’s conduct. Viscount Cranbonrne and Lord Carnarvon, in 1867, had made brief explanations after resigning, but while holding office awaiting the appointment of their successors. In reply Mr Gillivray, Minister of Public Works, said the Engineer-in Chief would make a report on the requirements of the harbor at Riverton, if it were asked for by the Provincial Government of Otago. In the Legislative Council, The consideration in committee of the Burial Ground Closing Bill provoked a long discussion as to the advisability of allowing relatives of those previously deceased to he interred in cemeteries already closed, and whether such interment shall take place as a favor granted by the Governor, or somp other person, as a matter of right provided for by this Act An amendment of clause 6, to the latter effect, was carried. Thp fqlloyfing new clause was carried on a division, by 10 to IQ “It shall be lawful for any person, by will or de d, duly <xeeuted, tq direct bis or her body shall, alter ((path, be disposed qf by burning the |ame to ashes instead of by burial in ea^th; afid it shall bo lawful for the executor or executors of sueb person to carry into effect such directions, provided that such burning shall be conducted in a manner which shall ■ot create any public or private nuisance.”