GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Evening Star, Issue 3571, 3 August 1874, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

[By Electric Telegraph ]

Wellington, August 1. Upon regaining the debate on the Forests Bill, Sir C. Wilson strongly supported the measure. Re urged the Bouse to preserve the forests from wanton destruction. He read copious extracts'to show the effects of destroying forests in India.—Mr M'Gillivray supported the second reading, but only with a view to future legislation—Mr Stafford, in an eloquent speech, gave a most decided and unqualified support to the Bill. Every speaker joined in thanking the Premier for the exceedingly able and painstaking way in which he had brought the subject under their notice. Each one agreed with the principle of the Bill, and, yet, with one exception, they wanted the measure to bo allowed to slumber, treating it as one only brought down to please. He made bold to say that such proceedings were net becoming in representatives, and not likely to be pleasing to the people. For his own part, so thoroughly did he believe in the principle of the Bill tbat, although every clause might want amending, he wonld rather see it passed in its present shape, so that some protection might be afforded to the national wealth of New Zealand. They doubtless would make mistakes, but did they expect to jump into life, like Minerva, full grown and perfectly epoipped ? This Bill would enable them to protect their forests. Even eventually those papers the Premier had laid before them would lie taken as a text-book upon the question. What was the chief objection raised ? Oh, it will interfere with the Provinces, —as if they were some little gods almighty to be bowed down to. The leas they heard of the Provinces and the more of New Zealand our legislation would be more beneficial. Moat markedly had the Prouincial Governments re, framed from taking action in this matter, with the exception of Otago, which was favorably distinguished as the only one alive to the importance of the question. Otago supplied valuable information. Wellington dismissed the matter by saying tbat the hr sk mode of conserving the forests was by alienating the land so that the timber might brought into ttie market, None cmld presume that the Premier meant anything else by conservation than that cutting and growing should go on contemporaneously. The very papers before them showed, by the minute details given regarding German forestry, what was needed lLrW g t r A egU ! a , r ® u PP lv of timber to market* In Auckland and elsewhere the only thought seemed to be to derive a present pecuniary advantage from timber. He believed it would be found easier to grow new woods than t preserve old ones, though it was possible to remove a large portion of indigenous forests without injury. As to ri ncubng the idea of a scientific coT-ge, he held that without that, the whole scheme would mil. It was all very well for “ practical men, who saw the length of their noses only, and worked by rule of thumb, to sneer at science. If for climatic reasons alone, and if they never derived a shilling from the expenditure, the Bill Should be passed. When in France he bad Seen the inhabitants of a populous and fertile valley on the "Rhine driven out through the mountains being denuded of timber. He knew somewhat similar effects take place from like causes in the Alps and Apennines and Vosges. He would consider ip unworthy of the Legislature to shelve the Bui. especially when no other important measure claimed their attention. As to tbs

cry of Provincialism introduced, he could not see that the Provinces were capable of dealing with the question. ' The Financial Statement showed that the majority of the Provinces had come to the Honse for pecuniary aid to carry out the ordinary purposes of Government. Some undoubtedly could do so, but t ?? I P’J° nt y were no mor ® able than the child horn yesterday. He would not argue in detail, but he wanted them to make a beginning, and knock the hark off our knuckles two or three times in finding out the proper way to go to work. Hp hoped the hon. gentleman at the head of the Government would show his earnestness in the matter by declaring he had no intention to drop the Bill. If the Government were in earnest, they could get the measure passed this session ; “ they were wrong ip introducing it, to be dropped,—The Premier announced that the House should proceed with the Bill. He was satisfied, from the very general approval it had elicited from the Press and members, that it would be most acceptable to the country. He 'hoped the Honse would endeJYor to set the Bill through this session. —Mr Stafford resumed. He hoped the Government would be prepared to accept any lona fide amendments, and invite the cooperation of the Provincial Governments. If they spent LlO 000 for ten years, without seeing any return, the country would still reap a large benefit. Why, at the present mpment they were importing sleepers for the railways running through the Colony in every direction, and this, in a country where they were told timber cumbered the ground, was the result of “ letting people alone”—leaving to private enterprise that which the Government proposed to do. They were to 1 d the kauri forests of Apckland would supply the country for thirty years, but after that What? The old kauri was growing up.— (Applause.) Messrs G. B. Parker, M Glashan, and Wakefield supported the second reading.—Mr J. L. Gillies considered it an attempt to take 3 per cent, of the land of the Colony from the control of the ProVinces, which were the most competent bodies to manage their forests. He had information which made him doubt the figures given as to the rapid destruction of timber in the last twenty years. He scouted the idea of introducing anything about the debt of the Colony in the Bill.-Messrs M‘Glashan and Richardson supported the second readies- —Mr T, B. Gillies would have bseu satisfied if the Premier had confined himself to the sense conveyed in his remarks when ho said he hoped the measure would receive considerable attention during the session. He objected to the question being made one as between the Provinces and the Colony. He was not sure it was always bad to remove bush, as too much bush brought too much rain.' In Hawke’s Bay it might be advantageous. Had the measure been confined to reserving a certain portion of plain land in various parts of the Colony, he Would gladly support it. Confine it to that, and he would support it still; but if they wanted to alienate a percentage of land all over the Colony for the purpose of making revenue by cutting and planting, he thought the Provincial Governments would do it better than any other body. The General Government would have too much to do to look after all the forests of the Colony. The best way to preserve forests was to sell them to private individuals, and if it was their interest to preserve them they would do so. He would not advance a tribute of praise to the Premier, and would venture to say that many epinioni given regarding our forest* Were fallacious.

that Br Hector never gave them. As to the calculation regarding the probable profits of the scheme, surely any of them could make a calculation that our oyster beds could be so managed as to enable us to pay off not only our debt, but even the national debt of threat Britain. Hs cmld see in the Bill indentions that pliant Superintendents wonld meet with more favor than stiff and sturdy "lies who would not bow down before Mr Vogel. He must regard the Bill as an ati>’i! pt to take over the lands of Provinces, and to place in the hands of the Government, powers which should alone belong to the House. He could agree with an experiment, but the Bill was no experiment, unless it was an experiment at the expense of the Provinces. It had been tauntingly said, tbat the ; fL?at of the present system was to drive them to Oregon for sleepers, but the red reason for that was the shutting up from private enterprise of our magnificent kauri forests in Auckland by vicious Native land legislation. He objected to enter Bills once upon the statute-book that were difficult to be got off, especially when they entailed salaries. Let theta have the Bill well thought over, and not one that would be a disgrace to them and a source of future oppression and injustice. He regrett d he had to oppose the Bill, though he agreed with the idea.—Mr Fitzberbert was startled at being asked te hurry forward this Bill to put upon the Statute-book, He

considered the experiment might be made both interesting and valuable • but the latter only after practical investigation and data, not upon that derived wholly from other countries, and entirely inapplicable to this, where circumstances differed.

One fundamental error pervaded the whole debate. They were as it were inundated with voluminous papers which would cause them to legislate for New Zealand, with its 900 rules of coast, as if it were embraced in one degree of latitude ; and the Bill asked them to apply to the North Island, twothmls of which was forest land, the same provisions that were to be applied to the tieeleas plains of the Middle Island. And why were they called upon so suddenly to grapple with a subject of such magnitude ? If it was necessary for the salvation of the c untry to take one-third of the land of the Colony, he must remark that it meant taking over two millions of the choicest land of the Colony, which was really equal to double that

number of acres, taking good with bad. The purpose of the Bill, though very well disguised, was not to .enforest New Zealand, but to duforest the Provinces. The only mistake was that its introduction was notintrusted to one of the Premier’s Native ministerial colleagues, because the Bill would then have been symbolical of the aboriginal custom when on the war-path of covering their advance of deadly intent by holding in their hand forest boughs, and it was therefore an artistic or inartistic blunder of the Premier not to intrust the matter to one of his colleagues of the Native race, because then it woull have been excused on the ground of force of habit or nature. Judging from the speeoh of one bon. member, it would appear as if the Superintendents had been selected. Taking the scope and intentions ©f the Bill, as far as Wellington was concerned, it meant taking half a million’s worth of its estate. If the healthy Province of Canterbury was prepared to abandon a like proportion of that Province, let it say so. Having shown the magnitude of the proposal covered in the must remind them of a saying of the Premier’s last year, that [not ?] one mile of railway was to be coustructed without land taken for it, and tell them that this Proposal veiled the intent of taking that which dared not be taken openly. This Bill was only a large advance of the rejected policy of last year. What wag the equivalent to be given tor these four millions of acres to be taken ? Why, a remission of one per cent, upon the M; am ’. at the expiration of thirty years, any liabilities upon the construction of the railways are to become solely Colon?al. We shall pay in thirty years some four millions for these public works and then the Colony will take them all to itse.f. Looking at the result of the floating of our million and a-half lorn recently, there was good reason to think that zenith edl V n K thC f ?° me markefc at its zenith. To show how unequally the measure pressed upon the various Provinces, he tkat , aa some Provinces had no forest land to be taken, and Wellington had considerable, that would be immediately pounced upon to test the practicability of some, which was paying 1 10,000 per year to manage 2,000,000 acres of land of the Colony. Could any anchorite imagine a more madet0 c m f na g e such a quantity of land Most of them would see the absurdity and impracticability of the scheme. How could they preserve the newly planted

ift J h ° l ’ t enomg? Andthey wereal-lowed l e ?\ *? mana S e and knee in all that land That that was done was sufficient evidence to show that it was never intended to be done. If the desire had been earnest, and the House was asked to introduce from Germany twenty or thirty of tho?e men, who had been brought up in the art of. forestry, to send them to all parts of the Colony, and after a period of experience to come down again with an intelligent Bill based upon experience, the House would vote L 2.500, or even I 5.Q00 if necessary. How ridiculous was the request that they should make haste to place this Bill, with all its faults, upon the statute-book, and amend it from year to year. It was like building a ship from a model, only that the model was as large as the ship. Yet this was the advice of the hon member for Timaru. He had no objection to try the experiment if the model were only of reasonable proportions ; but this was only an attempt to capture their iaiided estate and create a large staff of officials, neither of which would lead to any good results.—Mr Feeder Wood said four points came out with considerable clearness. 1. i- ew Zealand was rapidly destroying her valuable timber property, 2. Something should be done. 3. Nobody knew '"**t was to be done. 4. The majority d,, , JBe was de cidedly of opinion that the Bill should not be gone on with beyond

the second reading this session. To show the rate at which our forests were disappearing, he would say that when he first came to Auckland he passed through a forest he then thought w&s eternal, where now no veslige of forest was to be seen. When the Premier brought down the Bill, the House was certainly under the impression that the Government did not intend to proceed with it this session, and members had consequently not given that attention to the Bill which they otherwise would have done. Ho was in that category, but from what he had seen of it, he concurred with every word that had fallen from the member for the Hutt, and asserted that it was the duty of every Superintendent to oppose the Bill, which was, in fact, placing the cart before the horse. The House was in a difficulty, ihe position of the Government, no doubt, could, if they pressed it, carry the Bill: but they could not do that and have a short session to discuss the provisions of a Bill which embraced the policy of the whole Colony. It could net be discussed under a month He would recommend the Premier to postpone the measure, accept the advice of his staunch supporters in deferring the measure to another time, and adopt the recommendation of the Superintendent of Taranaki, Besides, the Bill caused grave apprehensions to the people ®f Auckland, where so many were dependent upon the timber trade of the Province,—Mr Murray moved the adjournment of the debate at i 1.3Q,

Mr O’Neill will ask the Premier on Tues day when the arrangements will be commenced by New Zealand, New South Wales, and Queensland for the construction of an electric cable between New Zealand and New South Wales, and from ormautown in Queensland to Singapore, in terms of the agreement now ratified by the Parliaments ot the three Colonies.