PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.
PETITIONS.
THE CRISIS,
Thursday, May 15.
PETITIONS,
The following petitions woro. received From certain settlers at Macrae’s Flat, referring to the opening of blocks of land in their district.—Mr M'Kenzie.) From the Dunedin School Committee, referring to a certain reserve in Dunedin.—-(By the IJoiu Mr Reynolds.)
VOLUNTEER LAND ORDERS,
The Superintendent, by message, submitted ihe pames of volunteers who were entitled to a remission of purchase money of land, having served the allotted* time.
THE UNIVERSITIES,
Mr Bathgate gave notice of the following : —l. “ That the intention of Parliament in passing the New Zealand University Act, 1870, to establish an efficient teaching institution, with # Utoper staff of competent professors, with •yylnclx the Um.yergiiLy of OtagQ might be amalgamated, whereby ,, th , 6 y'oidh of the Colony might be enabled to pursue their studies fu the higher walks of literature, as well' as Qualify themselves for the learned professions, has been signally defeated by the Council of the socalled New Zealand University, which has limited its efforts to the affiliation of various existing local schools, without any guarantee that their standard is of that character which cap ensure the advanced education required, and has expended the funds at its disposal, not in payment of professors’salaries, but mainly in so-called scholarships, without a University for students to attend. (2.) That in the opinion of this Council, the proceedings of the Council of the so-called University of New Zealand are detrimental to the cause of education in the Colony, and have a tendency to lower the standard by elevating inferior schools to a rank they oapppt maintain, and are besides a manifest evasion‘pf ili£ law. (3) That the University of New Zealand A.vi, U7O, should be repealed, and the fundsliitlterto disposed under it should, after satisfying all existing obligations bo applied tpwards the erection and maintenance of a University at Auckland. (4) That, as the University of Otago now possesses a complete staff > of highly qualified professors, a most convenient building, erected at a cost of L 30,000, a good library, laboratory, and museum, and is attended by a yearly increasing number of students, this Council re quests the assistance of the House of Representatives towards its obtaining a Royal charter, in order that its position may be thoroughly recognised, and its service in the elevation of the standard of feducqtion in the Colony rendered more effective.”
WAIPAHI LAND SALE.
Dr Menzies obtained the suspension of the Standing Orders to enable him to move:— “That it is expedient to withhold from sale, for the present, the lands in the Waipahi and Glcnkeuich districts, now advertised or pro posed to be sold ; ami that the Government be requested to give effect to this resolution. ’ The block of land in question contained a large quantity of agricultural land tnan any similar
block In the Province. The inhabitants of the neighborhood were extremely desirous of ob tabling a portion of this land brought under the operation of the deferred land system. It was now advertised for absolute sale ; and his Ample object in moving the resolution was to postpone the sale for O' few weeks, in 01- d e rto pve the House and the new Government that •night be formed, time to consider whether a portion of the land should not be thrown open for sale under the deferred land system. The Provincial Secretary, in seconding the motion, referred to the letter signed 14 Allan Clyde” in that morning’s Daily Tims, and, in explanation, said he had to give a public denial to the. statements contained in that letter. The land in question was not on his run : he never applied for it; and had nothing on earth to do with it. The owner of the nm on which the land was situated applied that it should be put up for sale by auction ; there was a piece on the other side of the river on Ins (Mr Tolmio’s) run ; but if that piece were sold tomorrow, he would not take it, nud hfid not the slightest intention of purchasing it. He thought it was unfair to the Government to press forward business when another Government was about to bo formed; and, with a view of giving the member for the Taicri an opportunity of givintr B ome expression on the latter subject, he moved the adjournment of the House till seven o’clock. , M .. Mr Shepherd supported the motion, as an indication that the Council was now alive to the error of its ways, and averse to the sale of land in large blocks. . . , „ Mr Reid feared the Provincial Secretary was too sensitive, because anonymous writers chose to attack him. Ho would find when he occupied a public position long, that not only would anonymous writers attack him, but that editors of journals would dole out to their hungry admirers similar attacks, and would be ready to point out all the defects of his character, and many which he did not possess. He (Mr Reid) had more cause of complaint than the Provincial Secretary, because he was termed “clodocratic Mr Reid ”in the letter referred to. No harm could result from passing Dr. Menzies’s resolution; and he did not think that the proper time to say anything in regard to his own negotiations. 1 o Mr M'Glashan mentioned that, on the opening day of the session, he had called attention to the sale referred to, because he knew one of the principal bank managers, and one of the greatest land speculators in the Province, was anxious to buy the land; and he was determined to keep it out of his hands if possible. He mentioned the matter to the Government, and was informed that means had been taken whereby the land would not be sold below its value ; therefore fault could not be found with the Government. , The motion was carried. ADJOURNMENT.
The Secretary for Goldfields moved the adjournment of the House till seven p,m. Mr Reid said he had that afternoon submitted to the Superintendent, in accordance with his request, the names of certain gentlemen to act as a Government; and his Honor had asked for a little time to _ consider the matter, and promised to send him an answer during the day. -In the event of his not receiving a reply before the House met, he-was to ask for an adjournment till seven p.m.; and as he had not received a x’eply, he seconded the motion. The House adjourned accordingly. On the House re-assembling at seven o’clock, Mr Reid said that before proceeding with the business he had to ask the indulgence of the Council in order to make a statement. As he had already intimated, he submitted to his Honor the Superintendent the names pf tlip gentlemen whom he considered likely to meet with the confidence of the Council, and able to carry on the business of the country. Since the House rose at two o’clock, he had received a reply from his Honor. His Honor requested him (Mr Reid) to wait upon him, and the result of the interview was that his Honor intimated that he considered that the names of the gentlemen that had been submitted to him were not likely to be satisfactory to the Council The Speaker : I am sorry to interrupt the hon. member, but a Message from his Honor the Superintendent Message No. 5 was then read as follows: — “ Referring to his Message No. 3, in which the Superintendent, for the reason* tljprein stated, solicited the concurrence of thd‘"Provincial Council in an application to his Excellency the Governor for an immediate dissolution, and to which there has been no reply, the Superintendent again desires to reiterate this request, and to express a hope that in the public interest the Council may sep its way to concur in the proposed application. The fact that the Provincial Council has now been in Sfissmn ten days, at a cost of some LoOO to L6OO- (hear) ?withr out any practical result—(cheers from the Government side of the House)—speaks for itself, and furnishes an additional reason for the adoption of the course now indicated. In the eyQut of the proposed dissolution being granted by Ws it is hoped that a new Superintendent' 1 aiftd PrdVihoftd Council Wpy tjf> elected—say within two months vrom jbhib da£e. till when there will be no difficulty'iii providing ■for the public service under authority of law. At the same time, in order to guard against any possible inconvenience, the- Superintendent would venture to suggest the expediency of the Couuvd agreeing tp grant temporary supply, pending the assembling of ttyo ngw Brfjymfiia} Council, ' ' ‘ ' ' ' ’ “J, Macandrew, Superintendent..
Mr Reid resumed: When interrupted, hcrwas saying that his Honor expressed his opinion that tlfo names tljat b e S n flubmi&ed Wg not likely to carry on the bipjqefw Q* country satisfactorily, and under th<? circi}m : stances —r*
Mr Shepherd : What names? Mr Reid : That the names of the gentlemen that I submitted to his Honor were not likely to meet with the confidence of the Council, or carry on the business satisfactorily. He (Mr Reid) thereupon expressed to his Honor his own opinion that ho (Mr Reid) had no other course but to leave the matter entirely in his Honor’s hands. He had no further explanation to 4takc. {.ask his Honor had assigned to h\m had been fulfilled, arid him Honor had rejected the names that he had tendered. Mr Shepherd would be glad if the hon. member for Taieri would give the House the names of the gentlemen whom he stated he had submitted as possessing the confidence of the Council, because so far as he (Mr Shepherd) had learned, and judging by the names that were mentioned in the public press, he was finite sure they would never have the confidence of the country ; at all events not of the goldfields. J)jr REID had only to say that he was quite prepared'to submit that question to the Council itself.—(Hear.) Mr M'Glashan asked for the names. It was, he thought, only due to the Council that they should be given. Probably? on their being read out, he and the member for Clyde might say tliJiy were proper parties ; but at present they were entirely in tfe dark; and for his own part he considered it’ was trifling uitfi the affairs of the country. . Mr Reid did' not think that any good purpose could be served by disclosing the'naxries. As for trifling with the affairs of the country, fie entertained a different opinion from the member for Ifarth Harbor, and he could only say itiat there bad been no trifling on his part. He had acted with' a great' of sjjlf-abne: gatjon in making the overtures he did. ’ He Had not spared himself time or tronble, and if blame was attachable for the action taken, it did not in any way rest with him. Leave was asked by Mr Barton, as he was about to proceed to Wellington, to have the Standing Orders suspended in order to enable him to move his resolution referring to Mr Plimsoll. This was met by an amendment by Sir F. D. Bell that the Standing Orders should be suspended to allow of his Honor's Messages beiim taken into consideration. A long discussion ensued as to the necessity of the Standing Orders being suspended in the latter course; and ultimately on a division being demanded, a large number of the Opposition left the chamber, and the amendment being put, was carried on the voices. Sir F. D. Beer asked whether the Government was prepared to go on with the business of the country, whether they were prepared to lead the House to a proper consideration of hi» Honor’s Messages, because rio private member would presume to take upon himself to lead the House iu such a matter. It was necessary for the Government to do so. Mr Barton thought the hon. member for Oteramika had suggested a very grave difficulty, because if there was no Government, the Messages could never be disposed of. Sir F, D. Bell pressed for information as to whether or not there was a Government. If the Government simply held their seats til’ thei" successors were appointed, it was perfectly clea ’ the House should adjourn. The Provincial Secretary replied that the Government only held their seats till their successors were appointed, He game down to the louse expecting to find a new Government ormed to replace his, consequently Message No. 5 was new to him : the other Message the House had beard before. The Government ; was not prepared with a reply to his Honor’. Message until they conferred with his JJ^por,
and as they were simply holding their seats temporarily, they were not prepared to go on with any business; he therefore moved the adjournment till 2;p.m. next day. Mr Shepherd submitted that it was not treating his Honor with proper respect, in postponing the consideration of his Message. He did not object to the adjournment, but hoped to-morrow the Government would be prepared to state exactly what course they would pursue, and not allow the time of the Council to be wasted, as it had been during the last fortnight. After some observations by Messrs Gotten and B* stings, Mr Thomson considered that the Messages being sent down without the advice of the Executive implied that his Honor intended they should be taken up by the Council and not by the present Executive. He was of opinion that the action of his Honor in so sending down Messages was unparliamentary,— (“ Oh, oh.”) The matter should be gone into at once.
Mr Barton was also of opinion that the Council should at once consider the Messages. There was no just reason why the Bouse should adjourn, except to give hon. members who had not strength of character of their own to know what the public thought before they could come to a conclusion. The House had almost unanimously affirmed that it would not be led by the gentlemen now on the Government benches ; and now to want to be led by them on this question was simply stultification. Another reason why the matter should not be postponed —and it was probable it might not be discussed —was that there ought to be an issue to go to the people with in the event of a dissolution. If he was to be dissolved, he wanted to know why? He wanted to know whether or not it was impossible to select from the Council a Government that would command a majority and be agreeable to the Superintendent; if that could be done, there was not the slightest necessity for a dissolution. He asked to be informed of the names of the proposed Government, in order that the House might judge from them whether that Government was likely to command the confidence of the Council, and so that he might know whether to oppose or support the Superintendent, in the event of an appeal to the country being made. The Hon. Mr Bathgate concurred with a good deal his colleague Mr Barton had said, but was of opinion that it would be unseemly, and show a want of respect, to at once take the Message into consideration. He referred to the Standing Orders, and contended that the:e should be some delay, which would allow of official intimation being received as to who the proposed Executive were. He had met the man in the street, who. told him it was a rainbow Executive—it contained all the colors of the rainbow—Red, Green, and Brown; and his informant added that the Executive was as fleeting as the rainbow itself; thex-efore it was impossible it could stand. The man in the street also observed that those were colors that would not wash very well, and he (Mr Bathgate) admitted they were of a fleeting kind, but remarked that there was Brown Stout in the Government, and that should carry it through. The man in the street was pretty correct. The member for the Taiori was to bo Provincial Secretary, Treasurer, and Secretary for Lands ; the member for Tuapeka (Mr J. C. Browne) Secretary for Goldfields; the member for Caversham (Mr Stout) Provincial Solicitor ; these to be supplemented by Mr Lumsden’s name. Mr Bradshaw was offered a non-official post, and in his (Mr Bathgate’s) judgment properly declined it; while Mr Cutten took the reversion, and so became the other non-official member. He did not pretend to say whether his information was correct; but if it was, he had ilo doubt that if it ever reached the length of lieitig submitted to ijhfc Council, it would'be found to be as fleeting as the rainbow itself, Mr Cutten said that, so far as he was concerned, the hon. member’s statement was totally without foundation.
Mr Stout could understand the anxiety of the honorable member for North Harbor, who no doubt felt disappointed because his name was not read out by Mr Bathgate as one presented to his Honor by Mr Reid as a member of the proposed Executive. The Hon. Mr Bathgate appeared to be the only advisor, hie Honor had, or he would not have been conversant with the names of the gentlemen proposed by Mr Reid.
Mr Reid thought the reply to his Honor’s Address shopld WfMy Ip gentlemen who should iii' a manner be responsible for the ac’tidn they took. Ebr mk part,' he was not prepared to take the matter up then. Before they agreed to his Honor’s Message, they should know whether or not it was possible to form a Government which would meet with the confidence of his Honor and the Council: at all events, every means should _ be exhausted before entering on the consideration of the Message, The Superintendent had been dragged too much into this question, "Hit Honor was quite justified in rejecting the names submitted to him; but in addition to that, he (Mr Reid) said that the Council had its position to 'uphold, which was to take inimedfate ktept'to «tsk that some other member if the Cpimrij should cndeaVbr tofbrm'a Government wni4» wdidfi secure' confidence of his Honor. "po doing his duty towards the Superintendent ,or towards the gentlemen whose names he had submitted to his Honor, were he to gratify the morbid and idle curiosity of the member for North Harbor. ’ ' J ‘ Nfr SKAND ws understood tpwy &at Jpi side' or tho House was rtetferiqined fid have out the gentlemen now on the Government benches, and would not be satisfied "until tnpy had them out. ’ They had nq right to bp therp. M* «£HS§4‘jrilfc very much that had fallen trqm the mpmber fqr the Taiprl, but there was qhp tqing whiph hp had qqt made quite glear. He presumed Mr Rpid pad performed Id* task to the best of his ability, and that the list of names he submitted to his Honor was the best he could get. Did the hon. member recommend his Honor to send for some one who would be more likely than he to form a Government, or did he take up a position and say that he and those chosen by him must be accepted by his Honor? He wished to know, because fie did not think the extreme step flf a djssolutic a should be tajicn bpfora eyury effort >yas madj to secure an acceptable Government. Mr Re >D explained that when bis Honor said he did not think the names submitted would be satisfactory to the Council, he (Mr Reid) said he considered he was relieved from the task he had undertaken. His Honor asked him if he wished to make any further attempt, but he respectfully declined. His Honor did not ask for advice, and he (Mr Reid) did not think it right, in his position, to tender any.— (Hear.) The House then adjourned till 2 p.m. to-day.
FpiPAY, Mat 16. • » A ..w-l
From George Bailey, that he was tjie purchaser of one acre of auriferous land at Swit ; zers ; that his title was properly registered; nevertheless, that the Waste Land Board sold the said apre qf land to one W. M'Donald, wherefore the petitibner'prayed that his might be taken into favorable consideration.— From the residents ’of Roxburgh, dtatinsf that within a stated period of tirite there had been sales of L 75.000 worth Of land iri the district) and only LI,OOO expended on 'public works; wherefore they asked that a bridge should be constructed pyer iri'p Molyrieqx at Kox|iui;gh.-A (By Mr BradsbaW.) Frorii resi4stitq''4n thg southern district of Southland, praying that thg present bridge over the K*kerewa might be continued until the new one was constructed, in order that traffic might not be interrupted.— (By Mr Basstiau.)
On the Orders of the Day being called On, The Provincial Secretary said Since we met yesterday evening, negotiations were set on foot with a view to bring about a solution of the present awkward position of both sides of the House; and, Sir, in anticipation of a' solution of that difficulty, measures were taken to bring it to a successful issue. Up to the present time these negotiations have not led to a final settlement of the difficulty, and I think , that until this is done it would be very useless to go on with any further business, I think it is very probable that these negotiations will lead to a successful issue, and, if they, do, it will be 9, great advantage gained! and a gtcafc deal q| trouble saved. ' • '-••• - :v < v... ;•! Mr Sumpter; What negotiations does the hon. member refer to ? The Provincial Secretary : The negotiations that were mooted. Mr Sumpter: Between whom? The Provincial Secretary: Between the hon. member for the Taieri and myself.— (Hear.)—lf, on the other hand, these negotiations fail, which I trust they will not, in that case, the Government as now constituted, will bo prepared to advise his Honor the Superintendent as to what step should be taken in reference to this matter. I may say, that the Government as now constituted, are merely cere until their successors arc appointedand diat they have no desire whatever to sit on ohese benches, as I have before told the Housed So far as I myself am concerned, I may be atiier thin skinned, rather too sensitive, as I ,v& told yesterday: but expressions wen used
last nightly the inember for the Taieri (Mr Stand) before ft Crowded House, which should not bo passed over Without some comment being passed upon them. The hon. member could not wait for the ordicourse of events to allow one set of men to occupy their benches, and another to leave them—hut must drag the latter off the 1 did not refer to these remarks last night, but I think it would have been well if he had been checked in using such remarks. I wish to be allowed to read to the House a letter which I have received from his Honor in reference to a portion of the business that transpired here yesterday. It runs thus “Dunedin, 16th May, 1873. “My Dear Sir, —1 observe that the grounds upon which I objected to the Executive proposed to me yesterday by Mr Reid are misrepresented by the Daily Times this morning ; and alt! ough perhaps it is scarcely worth while taking any notice ot this, yet it may be as well, if you have an opportunity of doing so, to state in the Provincial Council what was actually said by me to Mr Reid. The ipsissirna verba were as nearly as possible that ‘ having carefully thought over the names submitted, I regretted to say that they were not altogether satisfactory to myself —that most certainly they would not be satisfactory to the country, and I doubted if they would be satisfactory to the Provincial Council itself, although, as regards the latter, it might bo said to bo no business of mine.’ These were, I believe, the exact words used by me. “Yours faithfully, “J. Macandrew.” I have no further explanation to make. The gentlemen now occupying these benches are not going on with one iota of business: we are here simply till our successors are appointed, and will not submit to being made shuttlecocks of, as we have been during the last two days. I certainly shall not do so, and therefore move the adionrnment of the House. Mr Fish thought the question-whether or not Mr Reid had correctly represented what took place between the Superintendent and himself should be very distinctly understood, because the question raised an issue upon which the House would have to decide another question of considerable importance. Mr Reid : The hon. member had thought nt to express his conviction that everything he (Mr Reid) had said last night was wrong. He thought that it would have been much better if he had allowed him to rise in his place in the House, which he was about to do to make a statement <o the Council. He had not thought it necessary to repeat all that had passed between himself and the Superintendent. He thought that by not repeating all that had transpired be was consulting the feelings of his Honor, Now, however, he felt that he was not only justified but actually called upon to do so. When he went to his Honor, he first requested him to take a seat. —(Laughter.) He proceeded to say—Mr Reid, I do not know what to think of in regard to this matter. The whole thing appears to me to be very unsatisfactory. It appears to mo that this thing will not do.—(Laughter.) The Superintendent then went on to say that he did not consider that it would be altogether unsatisfactory to the Council.-4 Hear, hear, and laughter.) He further expressed his opinson that a dissolution of the Council was rendered necessary. He felt convinced that the names of the gentlemen proposed did not possess the confidence of the country, and he felt sure that they would not be able to carry through the business of the Council. My reply was that I did not see that his Honor was in a position to express any opinion as to what the fejsling of the Council would be. His Hoqpr agftm reiterated his ppipjoU fh'at he quite sure that they would not be able to carry- through the business fif the session ; the impression left on my mind being that a crisis would probably arise and again delay the business of the Council. Ho (Mr Reid) concluded by saying that the statement ho h*d made was substan tivlly correct. Mr Me-vtn asked the Government if the Superintendent had sent for any other gentlemen with the view of forming a Government. The Provincial Treasurer said that he h\d been in communication with the Superintendent to-day, and fresh negotiations were opened up, which he hoped would lead to a solution of the difficulty. For that reason he thoiigftt it most desirable that tk tulmumuiek 'should take place, ’to iV admit qfthe rifegotiatiolis being matured.'' ‘ *■ 1 ' " ' " i,! Mr Reynolds did not intend to take any part in the discussion, having been only in the House a few days. The Superintendent, as the elected head of the Province, had as much to gay in this matter »« any it ember of the Council—(hear)—or indeed as the whole Council put together. What was the fact ? The Council did not represent the Province. For example, for the City of Dunedin there were three members who voted one way and four the bther. He oopfd pot pp(krstnp).i tjiat U(0 citizens’ would rettml rour To vote' one way and three tbe otlier. Under the question as to a dissolution submitted by his Honor ought to be fairly considered by the Council It was not only the case with Dunedin There were other districts! #hich he knew perft|»S fMS try on the question no# at issue, would have po more chance of being returned than he (Mr Reynolds) Had of flying tp the mopn.—(Cheers, in whiphtbo galleries joined, the demonstration being checked by thp Speaker.) ' i Wkt is (ihg jsspo tp ga to the country uppp ? ]sr : The question was, whether the Cpuncil should domineer over the elected kad of the Province. - (Hear.) If he were the Superintendent lie would not allow the Council goto domineer over him. He was responsible to the whole of the electors of the Province, and would be perfectly prepared to ascertain from them whether he was right or not in the course of action he harl taken. The Superintendent made a very fair offer. He was ready to go before his constituents, and if members, with his Honor’s offer before them, refused to do so, there cquld hi* UP doubt that the plpctprs of the Prpyince, consider that those membfehdty ih *hid position': they do pot expect to bo returned agAin.- • (Oh.) *' Pfivgral other monhcra addressed the House, which, at 4 p.ni., adjourned till Monday, at 9 p.m.
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Evening Star, Issue 3194, 16 May 1873, Page 2
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4,835PROVINCIAL COUNCIL. Evening Star, Issue 3194, 16 May 1873, Page 2
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