THE NO-CONFIDENCE DEBATE.

Evening Star, Issue 2998, 27 September 1872, Page 4

THE NO-CONFIDENCE DEBATE.

We continue Mr Ormond’s speech : MR FITZHERBEKT ANSWERED. I will now come to some of the speeches which have been made by different members, to which I think it my duty to reply. lam sorry the honorable member for the Hutt is not here ; but he generally remains while he fires his shots, but does not stay to receive those that maybe fired at him in return. In the very long speech or speeches which that honorable gentleman made, there was an immense amount of matter, but those points that really required answering by the Government were not very many in number, and most of them will be very easily replied to. Speaking of the public works policy, in the first speech be delivered —be had three speeches, if I remember right—in Replying to my honorable friend the Colonial Trea surer, he said he entirely sympathised with it, but he blamed the Treasurer for not carrying out the scheme in proper order—for putting the cart before the horse. I have here the substance of what the honorable gentleman said, as published in a newspaper, and it corresponds with the notes I took at the time. It is as follows : -

“I said to him (the Colonial Treasurer), ‘ Don’t go into the thing in that way—put your horse first and your cart afterwards,’ They have put the cart first and the horse had to follow. In the presence of the thirteen or fourteen gentlemen, among whom was Mr Lndlam, then a member of the House, and some honorable members who are now listening to me, I said to the Hon. the Colonial Treasurer, ‘Do not go into any work; do not bring any of the works before the House; get all your surveys done first; know what you are about to do. ’ The honorable gentleman will recollect that I urged this upon him. 1 ’

I know something about the deputation as well as the honorable member for the Hutt. I was asked, before that honorable gentleman, to be the spokesman of the deputation, but a peculiar duty had to be performed by the spokesman on that occasion, namely, that of saying what was not meant; and feeling such work was not in my line, I left it to the honorable member for the Hutt, feeling satisfied he was enrnently suited for it. My recollection of that deputation, which I attended, is this : The House will remember that in the Railways Act of 1870 certain railways were put in the first schedule —the railways to be constructed in Otago, Canterbury, and Auckland—but the railways in Wellington, Hawke’s Bay and Taranaki were omitted from that schedule. We were discontented with the Government for what we considered an inattention to our requirements, and we made up a deputation of Wellington, Hawke’s Bay, and, I believe, Taranaki members to wait upon the Government. Our object in going to the Government was, not so much to remonstrate with them for “ putting the cart before the horse,” as for not making any railways in our particular localities— for not putting our railways in the first schedule to the Act. That was what we went to remonstrate with the Colonial Treasurer about. We had heard outside that there was a stiff determination on the part of the Government not to accede to our request, and so we went, with the honorable member for the Hutt as our spokesman, and asked the Government first to put our railways in the first schedule, or, failing that, to keep all the works back and let us all start fair. In other words, what the honorable member meant by the Government “ putting the cart before the horse,” was, that he did not want Otago, Canterbury, and Auckland to be put before Wellington. That is what the honorable gentleman should have told the House when he invented that nice little story the other day. The honorable gentleman then went on to refer to the question of working with the Provincial authorities. He admitted the co-operation of the Colonial Government in many cases, but cited as instances to the contrary, that they had refused to hand over the surveys of the Rimutaka Railway to him, and that he had great difficulty iu getting a sight of the specifications. It is only right the House should know what kind of demand it was that the honorable gentleman and his Provincial Secretary, Mr Bunny, made of the Government, and it will be instructive to the honorable member for Timaru if he should succeed iu carryiug these resolutions, because he will then know the demands these gentlemen mrke on the Government. It will be recognised by the House that the railway over the Uimutaka is a work of great difficulty as well as of great importance. And here I may say that this Government looks upon it as a work of great importance ; that we have throughout been faithful to Wellington in the determination to carry it out; and that we look forward with every sincerity to pushing it on, with a proper consideration of fairness to other parts of the country. What I mean is this : that the advice of our engineers is, that to rush hurriedly into making a railway over a range like the Rimutaka would simply be throwing away large sums of money belonging to the Colony ; that months of preliminary survey are necessary before a proper line over such a range can be fixed; and that for every week the theodolite is used, thousands of pounds will be saved to the Colony in the ultimate construction of the railway. But what the honorable gentleman for the Hutt asked us to do was to hand over to him the cptire selection of the line, the making of the surveys, and, if he could get it, even the construction of the railway itself. He wanted to have a contract for the whole of that railway signed before the House met this session, but the Government would be no party to such a thing. We consider ourselves honestly bound, and mean what is right and fair to the Province of Wellington ; but we do net consider it our duty to sacrifice the interests of the Colony to what we believe to be unfair demands on the part of the Provincial Government of Wellington. That really, I may say, is the ground upon which the honorable member for the Hutt and the Provincial Secretary (Mr Bunny) have ceased to support this Government. Let the House remember that if the honorable member for Timaru has now got their support, he will only keep it on similar terms, 'i hose honorable gentlemen have pledged themselves to get what they demand from any Government who may sit upon these benches, and no Government will ever command the continued support of those two gentlemen unless they fail in their duty to the Colony. I tell the House, from my own experience, that such will be the case. lam sorry that the honorable gentlemen are not in their places to hear what I say. As for the complaint that they did not get a sight of the specifications, it is a very small matter indeed ; but I will explain it. It refers to the piece of the railway now iu course of construction between this town and Petoui. The Provincial Secretary

came to me and, aa usual, had got hold of a very dismal account of the way in which these works were being conducted by the Government. As usual, we did not know anything of our business, and our particular officers were perfectly unfit for the perform* ance of their duties ; so these honorable gentlemen wanted to see the specifications of the works. I consented to let them see the specifications, but told the honorable gentleman that they were being printed, and at soon as completed I would send them to his office —on the next day or the following. The House was sitting at the time, and there may have been some little delay in the printing, but as soon as they were finished, copies were sent to the honorable gentlemen, who said, “ Oh, it is all right; we have sent our engineer to look at the work and it is all right.” That is the history of these specifications, and 1 think it was scarcely worth while dragging it into this debate. The honorable gentleman gave some reasons why, as a member for Wellington, he should vote against the Government; but I think the reasons he gave were rather curious, considering the course he feels himself called upon to take. First of all, he says that the present Resident Minister for the Middle Island voted against the Wairarapa Railway, and that the same gentleman and Mr Hall voted against the Wellington Debts Bill, and that I did not vote upon it—that was before we were in the Ministry. Ido not know the reasons which guided my honorable friends in their votes ; but, for myself, I must say—although it may not be acceptable to those Wellington members to whom we owe so much for their able and consistent support—> and I say it deliberately, that never since I have been in this House have I done anything so much against what I considered right as I did in abstaining from voting on that occasion. I did go out of the House ; but the last thing which the honorable member should have brought up against me was that which I should not have done if I had not been earnestly pressed to do it. But if this is a c rime in us, and if we are unfit to be Ministers because we did these things, how does the honorable gentleman reconcile his. conduct in voting for the honorable member for Timaru, who, together with the honorable member for Auckland City (Mr Gillies), the honorable member for Taieri (Mr Reid), the honorable member for Parnell (Mr. Wood), and the honorable member for Nelson City (Mr Curtis), also voted against that Bill ? If some members of the Government did not see their way to supporting the Wellington Debts Bill, it appears that the whole of the leaders of the Opposition voted in a block against it. How, then, can the honorable gentleman arrive at the conclusion that on this ground we should be turned out of office and those honorable gentlemen put in ? I must leave him to answer the question himself. Sir, the hon. gentleman said he could not accept the Hutt Railway as a Colonial work ; that the Government refused to hand over the Rimutaka Railway, while they were neglecting to carry on the surveys; and that they had shown decided hostility to the Wanganui Bridge, I have already explained why the Government refused to hand over so large a work as the Rimutaka Railway to the Provincial Government; and why the honorable gentleman will not accept what has been done in regard to a portion of that line, must be left to his own consideration. The Government have undertaken that work under the instructions of this House, and if they remain in office they will carry it out, and wheu they are shewn by their officers what is the best line, they will lose no time in pushing on the Wairarapa Railway. I think it would be easy to give some reasons why Wellington members should be friendly to the present Government, and amongst them I may refer to some things done for Wellington during the premiership of my honorable colleague at the head of the Government. Th« Wanganui Bridge was lying on the banks of that river, and the Provincial Government had no means to erect it, but the General Government stepped in and enabled the Provicce to complete it, and now it is the finest public work in New Zealand. A share of the Patea loq,n was given to Wellington ; and the Waitotara refugees were re-settled on their lands, mainly through tho personal exertion of the Premier, who went out of his way to show his friendliness to that part of the country. By no means of less importance was the settlement of the Mauawatu dispute, and that was brought about by the Native Minister, at a cost of time and labor and won y to him almost greater than any he has 1 ad since he has been in office. It is hardly necessary for me to point out what a valuable acquisition that land is to Wellington. Some of it has already gone to wipe out part of the indebtedness which the House thought last year was too great for the Province to bear ; but the remainder the Province has still got, and I say that, but for the exertions of my honorable frhnd, it would have lain useless for years. I wish also to say this to the House : Honorable members will remember that there was a claim made against the Colony by the former Superintendent of Wellington, who is now AgentGeneral, for lands given back to tho natives out of this block. That claim was made before the matter was settled, and while the dispute was still in progress ; but it surely would not be thought reasonable if the present Superintendent were to set up suen a claim. He has absolutely raised it, but he says, in his usual adroit way, that he has not forgotten it, and has hinted that when , he wants something from the Colony he vpll raise it; but I feel sure that the Colony will j never entertain it. Then we have the further benefits to the Province in the road operations that have been carried on, the construction of the Mauawatu Tramway, the opening of the road from Wanganui to Patea, and the opening up of the SeventyMile Bush, all tending to render the Provincial estate valuable. These works are all in the inteiest of the Colony, and works which will make the Province of Wellington, at no very distant day, one of the leading Provinces of the Colony. The works have been initiated and carried out by the Colonial Government, and the Province is, and ought to be, grateful for them, (To be continued.)