PRESBYTERY OF DUNEDIN.

Evening Star, Volume IX, Issue 2749, 8 December 1871, Page 2

PRESBYTERY OF DUNEDIN.

At last evening’s sederunt the Presbytery proceeded to consider the complaint of the office-bearers of the First Church, which alleged that there did not exist between the minister of that Church and his session and deacons’ court that feeling of confidence and cordiality which was necessary to the carrying on of the business of the Church; wherefore it was prayed that the Presbytery should take such measures for speedily restoring the peace and harmony of the Church, as in its wisdom it might think advisable under the circumstances. The office-bearers were fully represented at the bar, the chief spokesmen being Messrs Lawson and Begg, who addressed the Presbytery at considerable length. Their arguments necessarily involved a repetition of many of the grounds relied on in the discussion of the previous day. It was contended in the first place in reference to the address with 417 signatures attached, which had been presented to Mr Sutherland, that a large number of (those signatures had been given on the plain understanding that it was a mere address of sympathy, and that they would have been withheld if it had been known that the document would have been put to the use it was. Charges of undue interference with the operations of tho building committee, and of improper conduct at meetings of the session and deacons’ court, in refusing to put motions of adjournment respectfully worded were made against Mr Sutherland, and the Presbytery was requested to examine into them. The principal alligation appeared to be that MrjSutherland’s conduct had led to a falling off in the attendance and financial condition of the congregation which threatened its entire disruption. In proof of the assertion it was stated that in 1868 the average weekly collections in the Chuic’i were from L 9 to LlO ; in 1870 they fell to L 7 or L 8 ; and during the last month they w?re only L 4 12s, while on Sunday last the amount collected was but L 3 ss, It was argued that so far as a statement of the finances gave an indication of the direction in which the congregation was drifting, these matters spoke for themselves, and proper inferences could be drawn from the figures. The contributions to the sustentation fund showed a like falling off. For the half year from January to June 1870 the collections amounted to L 154 3s j for the same period this year to L 126 9s Gd ; for the half year ending December, 1870, L 207 Os 6d, and for the present half year so far as it had gone, to L4B 19s 6d. But in explanation of this large discrepancy in the present halfyear it was to be explained that the bulk of the collections were made in December, and the treasurer calculated that LIOO would ye| be received. If those calculations were realised the amount would only be Ll4B Ps 6d as against L 207 Os 6d for the corresponding half year of 1870. The attendance at communion also showed a falling off. A list showing the attendance from 1865 was read and from it it appeared that the average attendance was 284; the highest number being 344 in December, 1868, and the lowest ISO during the last quarter. Things had gone on so badly that the deacon’s court had not been able to pay the minister’s salary for the last quarter, and there was little hope of things progressing as many persons had stated they would not contribute to the funds so long as the present state of affairs were allowed to be continued. It was rc: quested that the presbytery would direct ap early meeting of the deacon’s court, to be called to consider their financial position ; that a committee should be appointed to investigate the whole matter ; and the decision of tho Presbytery invited on these two points, viz., wos Mr Sutherland, as moderator of Kirk session and deacon’s court jurtified in refusing to put a respectfully worded motion, which had been duly moved and seconded ; and he was justified in taking and attempting to retain possession of the records against the wishes of the session and deacon’s court clerks. Mr Sutherland’s speech in defence of himself occupied over two hours in its delivery, and as was the case with the speech es on the other side, it travelled oyer a good deal of ground which had been dealt with the previous evening ; contained continuous personal reflections, and dealt with a variety of small matters which could only be of interest to the parties directly concerned. He denied that the signatures to the memorial which had been presented to him had been given under the impression that it was a !>ure expression of sympathy; or that any arge number of persons who had signed were desirous of withdrawing their names. Its getting up had not emanated from himself in any direct way; but through him having stated private!}’ to the deacons’ court after the congregational meeting in August, that as a mau of honor lie could not remain their minister if the statement then made were allowed to go forth uncontradictcd'. He also stated that it was his intention to obtain leave to convey the Presbytery’s saintations to the Church in Victoria, and then to leave the congregation as soon as he could. That resolution was kept secret, but frequently stated to the deacons’ court. He conceived that to be the only course he could take as a man af honor. Some weeks passed away, and then came this address signed by about three-fourths of the whole number ou the Communion roll, and he considered it a bar to his removal. The memdrial was spontaneous and unasked. Hie believed there was a portion of his officebearers yet attached to their minister*, while there was a portion decidedly disaffected. The memorialists urged that as he hail been guilty of tyranny, he should vacate the chair of moderator of kirk session and deacons’ court. But there were office-bearers—he believed elders and deacons, at least four of the latter did not appear on the memorial against him—who did. not wish him to Va ; cate, and a majority of 'the djd noj; wish hini to df) ?o. flg defended action in refusing to put the resolutions at the meeting referred to, on the ground that their object was to shield actions which had been declared to have been unconstitutional. The falling off in contributions was to be attributed solely to the hardness of the times, and similar fallings off had taken place in the

Elections of two other c:..ir C h es in the city w hilo the falling off in die attendance at c ommnnion was attributable to the fact of *he alteration of the cdcd»ration from being held half-yearly to quarterly, and that many pei-sons had not taken part in the celebration since the death of Dr Burns. If he load erred in any of the matters referred to, the Presbytery could well understand the circumstances he was placed in, and the feelings around him. He trusted the circumstances would at least ho his apology. The office-bearers having replied and questions having been put to and considered by both parties Mr Will said ho rose to propose a motion in this painful case, with feelings verv far from pleasing. It would be a waste of time on the part of the Presbytery to attempt to go into those various matters that had been brought before it in connection with this difficult and painful case. A great number of them were of very little moment, and would never have been mentioned if the relations between minister and the memorialists had been anything like what they should have been. There could be no doubt the Presbytery had abundance of evidence that there existed between Mr Sutherland and bis office-bearers very great dissatisfaction, indeed. Captain Thomson’s remarks the previous evening had now a stronger appearance the ship did seem to he in irons, hut he hoped some way of escape from the difficulty woulcl be devised without involving the going out of either party. It would be a great pity if a historical congregation like that of the First Church, which dated from the initiation of the history of the Province, should be rent to pieces. Some of the officebearers were connected with the Church almost from its beginning; and many were of long standing before the arrival of the minister, and they should not be dealt with in such a summary way as that they should resign and “go to some other church whose docriine and discipline are more in accordance with their wishes.” They could not permit any minister to turn away a whole session or deacons’ court in that way. Making all due allowance, he did not think the deacons’ court was to blame. Mr Sutherland had been peculiarly unfortunate in beginning his speech in referring to the numbers who had armed the address to him. He seemed to forget that extraordinary events had occurred since it was presented to him, and there could be in difficulty on the part of the Presbytery in uu lerstanding how the whole 470 names might consistently enough have been withdrawn from it and attached to the memorial then under consideration. No consideration could be given to _ the memorial with 417 names, because things had occurred since, which destroyed its weight. (Mr Sutherland here observed that the signatures had stood a test made since ; but this statement was denied.) He (Mr Will) thought there was no inconsistency ; indeed he would go further—ho had no very great respect for the 470 if they still adhered to that memorial. There was no doubt that Mr Sutherland had recently been guilty of conduct which could not bo tolerated in the church. He concluded by moving ; “ That the Presbytery express their deepest regret at the diffitrences which have arisen between the minister and the officebearers of the First Church, and resolve to confer with both parties, and ascertain through private conference and brotherly dealing, whether or not a_ satisfactory and peaceable settlement of their differo-ccs, and the removal of the public scandal to religion and the Church generally caused thereby, cannot be arrived at; and also to visit the congregation and endeavor to secure peace and harmony therein. And, further, the Presbytery being made aware that a meeting of Session, and a meeting of Deacons’ Court, had not been closed with prayer as usual, declare said mect’ngs to have been irregular, and the proceedings thereat null and void, and direct that the minutes thereof to be deleted from their respective records.” Mr Tt uu (elder) seconded.

Mr Eyi-iiv could not copcur the severe oast on Mr Sutherland by Mr Will. The previous evening he (Mr llyley) was the only person who ro-e to speak a favorable word for Mr Sutherland, and for expressing his private judgment and expressing sympathy for him, he had come under the lash of Mr Will and Mr Gillies. He did not rise to extenuate tho faults of Mr Sutherland—for he felt that in many respects Mr Sutherland had acted rashly—but he considered that gentleman had received very little sympathy and counsel from those with whom he had been associated. He could refer to many harsh actions on the part of the officebearers. What they had heard from Mr Hogg that night have showed that the officebearers had been at great pains to get hold of every little fault against the minister and present it in a most magnilied and glaring form. He sympathised with Mr Sutherland, who had been unwillingly forced into the present position, and deprecated the apparent disposition of a great many to carry out the old adage, “When a man is down, down with him. ’’ Mr Ylylcy concluded, with an amendment, which, being ruled to he similar in its terms to the motion, was withdrawn. The motion was then put and carried without a dissentient voice. At Mr Sutherland’s request, Mr Todd was appointed to administer the sacraments.