MR VOGEL’S SPEECH.

Evening Star, Volume VIII, Issue 2404, 15 December 1870, Page 1 (Supplement)

MR VOGEL’S SPEECH.

GREAT OPEN-AIR MEETING. In consequence of a requisition to the Mayor, signed by about eignt hundred persons, expressing entire disapproval of the disturbances which took place at the meeting at the Princess Theatre on Thursday evening and requesting him to invite the Hon. J. Vogel “to address another meeting before leaving Puncdin,” His Worship appointed a meeting to be held in the Ms sonic Hall on Tuesday evening, at half-past seven o’clock. In anticipation of this, an announcement through the Town Crier was made that Mr Grant would give an address at the Octagon at six o’clock. About fifty persons attended, a large proportion of whom were boys, and acting upon his recommendation, they marched to the Masonic Hall, and ranged themselves in front of the main entrance, so as to be ready to rush in to the hall on the door being opened : no doubt with the intention of occupying the front places. This manoeuvre was, however, to a certain extent counteracted by first admission being obtained through another door, and in consequence this apparently preconcerted plot to interrupt the proceedings, was frustrated by those obtaining access who were desirous of hearing the hon. Treasurer’s statement. All the seats were removed, in order to make room for as many as could possibly crowd into the hall, and in a very few min tea after the doors were opened it was densely crowded—hundreds being outside, unable to obtain admittance.

On the curtain being raised, Mr Vogel was received with loud and continued cheering. His Worship the Mayor then oune forward, and after reading the requisition to him to convene the meeting, Mr Vogel’s reply, anil his own notice appointing the meeting, he invited those present to choose a Chairman, and then to decide whether they should adjourn to the open air, or remain in the Hall. It was proposed and steonded that the Mayor should take the chair, which was carried by acclimation. — After a few remarks requesting a patient hearing for Mr Vogel, he introduced the hon. gon+lerncn. X Mr Vogel, on coming forward to speak, was again received with loud and continued applause. He said : Mr Chairman and Gentlemen —I can scarcely find words with ■which to express to you my thanks for the determination which has been manifested to suppress in this meeting all disorder, and grant to me all which I have ever asked a patient hearing. I fear you will suffer a very great deal of inconvenience on account of the densely crowded state of the Hall, and although I know that my voice is not at all sufficiently powerful to enable me to make myself sufficiently heard outside, yet still if, during the course of the meeting, you find that the crowded condition in which you are standing causes you too much inconvenience, I will, if you wish it, readily do my best to address you outside in the open a i r .—(Loud applause.) Meanwhile I will proceed with what I have to say. I will not refer to what took place at the meeting the other night beyond saying that I have met •with a very great deal of sympathy in consequence of the disorder which then prevailed ; and that sympathy has been shewn me, not only hy those whom I know or who might be inclined to agree with me, hut by strangers whom I have never seen before ; who have, since that meeting, come to me in the streets, and have said to me that, whether they agreed with me or not, they did not at anyrate consider that I ought to be refused a hearing in Dunedin.—(Applause.) I do not know whether after I have addressed you there will be any attempt to put a motion so as to test your opinion as to what I have stated. lam not here to ask you to express any such opinion. I have been requested to give an explanation upon matters you cannot be acquainted with, be- * cause the facts have been suppressed, so far as the local paper is concerned. What I now desire to do is to place these facts be- * fore you. I fear that in attempting to put before you what may prove to be only a dull, dry history of the proceedings, that I may not be very amusing, and that you may find me tedious ; but I ask you to recollect that we arc on the eve of an election for the General Assembly as well as for the Provincial Council— that on your selection of representatives a very great deal will depend—that, in fact, the franchise you will shortly be called upon to exercise, will be as important in its effects as the exercise of that privilege has ever, been in the past, and probably as it will ever be in the future. There- ’ fore I say that you should, at any cost and at any trouble, endeavor to make yourselves acquainted with the facts on both sides before you attempt to come to any determination with regard to those facts. I shall but very briefly touch upon the general policy of the Government, because there are some special matters which require in Dunedin at the present time more than ordinary consideration, So far as regards the ordinary domestic matters with which the Government and the Assembly have dealt, there has not been anything like the amount of misunderstanding and misrepresentation that there has been in respect to some special subjects, which I shall most fully elaborate. 1 will hut briefly say that during last session, besides the Immigration and Public Works measures which we passed, there were other very important measures adopted by the Assembly, such as the Land Transfer Act a measure which will enable land to be transfered from person to person with as much ease as the transfer of an ordinary chattel is effected; and the benefit of which is certain to be widely felt. Next, I ask you to recollect that wo have now succeeded in establishing the ballot system in New Zealand. After many difficulties, and an immense amount of perseverance on the part of a gentleman whom I now sco before me, who is entitled to first credit in the matter—l mean your own representative, Mr Reynolds t k c Government took up the Ballot Bill, and it was passed during last session. Amongst the other important domestic measures, let me name one for improving that system of life insurance and annuities, Which as you know, tho Government had reviously taken into its own hands; also the Agricultural Produce Lion Act; the Volunteer Act Amendment Act, by which tho Volunteers are placed upon a better footin'* than that which they occupied previously ; the Sales for the Non-payment of Rates BUI a measure, the benefit of which •will bo felt throughout tho country, as enabling rate* to bo easily recovered from property owned by absentees.-(Some interruption and cries of “ outside, outside. ) Still Other important measures were passed by the Assembly, such as the Harbor Boards ■Rill—(A Voice: “Outside, outside; and mother Voice : “ The whole of Dimedia is

outside. ” Laughter. Another Voice . “Well, let them come inside.) An Act of the most important description was passed to enable reciprocal relations to be entered into by the Colony with other Colonics, ami another measure was one, the importance of which you will not undervalue, and the success of which you are now testing, namely, the Otago, and Southland He-union Act. (Loud ones of “adjourn.” and “outside.) Mr Vogel having stated that if it was wished, he was quite ready to address the citizens outside, the Mayor put the question to the meeting, calling for a show of bands, and a large majority of those present held up their hands in favor of the adjournment. There was an immediate rush from the hall, and there being frequent suggestions that the meeting should be continued in Water street, and the terrace of the Government buildings used as a platform, the large number of persons in the hall, and the immense body outside separated into two streams, one taking a direction across Bell Hill and over the reclaimed land into Princes street, the other proceeding from Moray Place into Princes street. When Mr Vogel reached Water street, the crowd upon the steps of the terrace was so dense that it was suggested that he should speak from within the arcade of the new Post Office building, but it was considered better to reach the terrace, and that was done after some little difficulty. The reporters scrambled up the steps as well as they could and were necessarily placed at an inconvenience in having to continue their work in the midst of a dense crowd, with their note books in their hands. A few minutes after Mr Vogel resumed his speech, some persons with the best intentions procured a table from tbe Government buildings, and it was passed from hand to hand overhead with the object of handing it to the reporters, but the crowd was so dense that the table could not possibly be placed, and besides it would have been useless unless half a dozen chairs could have hcen procured.. The table W3B amidst much laughter passed over the steps and given into the street. The assemblage by this time was very large, it being a common expression at the time and subsequently that “ No better meeting had ever been addressed in Dunedin.” Mr Vogel resumed : When we adjourned I was referring to some of the domestic measures passed by the Assembly during the last session, and which the Government had taken in its own charge. I tell you now, at once, that there are three subjects which I desire to bring prominently before yon. The first is that of the Suez mail service and the Californian service ; the second is the charge which has been made against the Government, and which has been repeated again and again by the Daily Time*, that the integrity of the telegraph office has been violated ; and the third subject is that of the Immigration and Public Works policy, which I shall ask you to allow me to explain fully, because I assert that you do not know the details of these measures, seeing that those details have been most carefully kept from you, whilst facts and comments professedly based upon them have constantly appeared in the Daily Times. I wish simply that you should have the facts before you, and when you have those facts you will be enabled to judge of the measures. I believe that 99 out of every 100 persons in this large assembly -will be utterly surprised when they hear what is the real nature of those measures. Of course all who arc present and who may be so minded, will be enabled to verify what I say by reference to the texts of the Acts themselves. THE SUEZ SERVICE. First as to the Suez Mail Service. In dealing with that subject, I must refer to the Daily Times. —(Cries of “No, no,” and “Don’t.’') I am bound to do so, because much of what I have to say will be with the object of removing misapprehensions created by that paper. When, last year, my colleague, the Hon. Mr Fox, addressed a meeting in Dunedin, he felt compelled to take exception to the many mis-statements with regard to the Government and its acts, winch had appeared in the Daily Times; and that journal afterwards reproached him with devoting too much of his attention to what had appeared in its columns. If in what I shall now say I make too much of the Daily Times, I will gladly make it a present of all the advantage it can gain from that circumstance. When I consider the way in which the mail service question has been treated in the Daily Times —the sedulous manner in which the Californian Service has been written down, and the Suez Service has been written up—l do not wonder at opinions which have been expressed by readers of that paper ; but I have always felt convinced that the moment the facts were known a very different verdict would lie given. Again and again, the Government have been pressed to pay subsidies to boats connecting with the Suez Service at Melbourne ; and again and again the people of Dunedin have been told that it was of very little consequence to them to get the Califorrrfen Service properly established. The connection with the Suez Service was discontinued, because the Assembly concluded that it was no longer necessary to pay a subsidy for boats to maintain that connection. It was considered that, as there were certain vessels trading between Victoria and New Zealand ports, neither right nor reason required that this Colony should continue to pay subsidies, Victoria not paying any, and the trade being sufficient to warrant the continuance of the vessels in the service. But still the Government found themselves continually pressed by tbe Dunedin Chamber of Commerce to pay subsidies to the proprietors of those steamers. I came down here determined to meet the case fairly and fully ; and I asked the Chamber to meet me, An interview took place ; and I explained that the course which the Chamber had been adopting was tantamount to devoting itself to the interests of a particular Melbourne firm, forgetting, apparently, that the direct result was needlessly to entail upon this Colony the payment of subsidies. What has been the result ? Although the Times has been day after day asserting that the people here cared for the Suez Service and required the payment of subsidies for boats connecting with it, and that the people of Dunedin very little esteemed the Californian Service, as soon as the facts were fairly put before the Chamber, a resolution was passed to the effect that it was not necessary to subsidise •boats between Melbourne and New Zealand, and that the Californian Service should receive the greatest amount of support.— (Hear, hear, and applause.) I draw from that fact the conclusion that, when other misrepresentations of the Daily Times are exposed and the facts explained, impressions hostile to the Government, which have been formed by many persons here, will cease, and that very different opinions will prevail. —(Hear, hear.) Those of you who have read

the Daily Times report of what passed at the- interview with the Chamber, have by no means been informed of all that took place ; for there was a very careful exclusion from that report of one part of what passed, and to which I wish now to draw attention. I said ta the Chamber—but it was not reported—that when I read the Daily Times articles complaining about New Zealand having aud controlling the Californian Service—about the steamers coming on to Port Chalmers, and the trade being brought to this Colony instead of going to Australia—those articles seemed to me to have been written in Australia, or to have boon copied from some Australian newspaper. They were articles—productions- so entirely foreign to the interests of New Zealand, that I fail to understand how they could find place in any paper publ shed in New Zealand.—(Applause.) 1 by no means want to give to the affair, however, a tragic or a serious aspect— is really n great deal of fun iu it. Whcitone notes through a succession of months, the different changes of opinion and the many contradictions contained in the editorial colams of the Times—the caprice, the fanciful nature of many of the complaints made, and tbe pervading tone of discontent—but especially when I have noted the characteristic capriciousness—it has struck me that instead of having an editor, tlie Times must be presided over by an editress.—(Much laughter ; aud a voide, “ Oh ! There’s no such word in the English language.”) I see before me so many faces of men who I am sure are devoted iu their attentions to tbe fair sex, that if it could be supposed that a young and lovely woman presided at “ the editor’s table,” 1 can believe some readers of the Times might be inclined good naturally to put up with much which would otherwise be grumbled at: in fact, that if the hand wielding the critic’s or censor’s pen was the hand of a young and charming woman, the revolts, however severe, might hardly be displeasing to those favored with criticism or censure. But the constant ill-temper, tlie never-erasing capriciousncse, and the defiance of all logic and reasoning, by which the leading articles in the Times are so much distinguished, make it impossible to think that the writer is a young woman, and force the conclusion that she is an old one, of the class immortalised by Dickens in Sairey Gamp.—(Loud Laughter ; and a cry of “That’ll do for the Times.") I have a great affection for tbe Daily Times, for reasons which many of my hearers know; and very likely, when I have to refer to it again, rather than repeat the name I like, I shall simply speak of “ Sairey Gamp.” —(Laughter.) THE CALIFORNIAN SERVICE. I will next ask you to allow me to explain ‘the Californian Service. The initiatory line (Mr Hall’s) has not been the failure it ihas been described as being. It was commenced nudei- circumstances of great haste, I admit —iu fact, under tbe conviction that if we did not do something to get a line established, the traffic which we might secure would pass away from onr reach, and would go to the. Fijis and Australia. But, commenced as 'it was without preparedness, I say that that service has not been a failure. A large number of passengers has been carried by it* each way, and the mails by it have been delivered—not very rapidly as a matter of fact, I admit; but on the average of several years, as rapidly as they have been delivered for a very considerable time between Dunedin and England From the very first establishment of Mr Hall’s line, I—and, of course, I must speak here in my Ministerial capacity—endeavored to secure that the steamers should run down from Auckland to Fort ( halmers. I offered Mr Hall LB,OOO a-year more than he has received to take his steamers to Otago instead of to Sydney. I confidently tell you that that object has never been lost sight of by me from the very first, and when a large deputation waited upon me at Wellington, what did I say to them ? 1 replied to that deputation —“ No ; the steamers should not simply go on to Wellington. 1 admit that the service is only a temporary one—that its steamers must not continue to call at one port of New Zealand only ; but that service must be a New Zealand service proper, with vessels calling at Auckland, Wellington, Lyttelton, and Port Chalmers —making that last place their first point of departure.” I beg you to believe that upon this matter I have throughout been consistent, as well as earnest. We have now succeeded in making a contract, the beneficial effects of which to this Colony, and to this Province, would seem extravagant if 1 stated them to you fully as I believe they will be realised. I prefer to allow you to experience them, and thus to come to appreciate them in due time. Let me tell you a few facts as to this service. There are to be three large ships, each of over 2000 tons register—one starting monthly from San Francisco, and going on to Auckland ; from Auckland to Wellington : from Wellington to Lyttelton ; and from Lyttelton to Port Chalmers—doing the distance between San Francisco and Port Chalmers within thirty days, and from San Francisco to England within fifteen days ; so that in forty-five days from leaving this City your mails will be lauded in England. The passage rate has been fixed at LSS, but I believe it will be lower. Those who go by the route will travel through some of the most pleasant countries in the world, and they will have the option of staying where they desire on tho road—making the journey to occupy a year if they please, or going on to their destination with the utmost speed that steamers and railway trains can effect. The contract is to be for ten years, subject to the right of the Assembly to decide if it shall be only for three years. The contractors are to give a bond for L 25,000 for the carrying out of their contract. They are under an engagement, subject to LIOOO a year, to obtain a remission of the existing transit charges made by the United States for the carriage of mails between San Francisco aud London. Tlie contractors are also bound to endeavor to obtain permission from the Legislature for wool and flax, the produce of New Zealand, or of any other country that may join in paying the subsidy, being admitted duty free into the United States. The effect of such concession, supposing it to be secured, would bo to create au industry the effect of which can hardly now be realised. Not only would it result in raising the price of wool, but it would afford au opportunity to everybody almost, who might lie so minded, to engage in the culture of the flax, which is indigenous to New Zealand, with profit to themselves and to the commerce of the country. This contract, whatever may be thought of tho contractor, has, I say, sprung out of tho contract with Mr Hall, But for that contract, by no possibility could New Zealand have secured the exclusive control over the future service which it has now in its power to secure, if the Assembly chooses to

adopt that which in the contract is described as “Line No. 2, ” I. admitthat that line appears to involve a largo cost, but it is a line which will put New Zeal ltd into a position of being able to say to tbe Australian Colonies vice as we ask you to do, or you shall not be allowed to enjoy the benefits of it.” For years past New Zealand baa been comp died to pay subsidies for ves-els arrivin'.' from Australia with the English mail, and the Australian Colonics have refused to pay their share of these subsidies, although there can be no question of the enormous advantages which they have realised from it Now we have the control of the service, and all I ask is that Australia fairly contributes towards its cost. Seeing that we shall be •able to make, at Melbourne or at Sydney a really fortnightly service, alternating with that by way of Suez, and seeing that the whole of the mercantile community of Australia will have a direct interest in being able to write Home as quickly and as often as possible, it is not possible to believe but that public opinion will force the Austr dian Governments fairly to contribute- So strong is my con - iction upon that point that I venture to prophecy—without, however, in any way pledging niysclf or the Government as to the recommendation that will be made to the Assembly—that if Line No. 2 is adopted the ultimate cost t > this Colony will be less than if we allow the contractors to adopt Line No. 4. Look at the result to the Colony and to this Port. Month after month you will have entering this harbor some of the finest steamers afloat.—(Some dissent). The bulk of the passenger traffic between Australia on the one hand and the United States, and between the Old World and the Colonies on the other, will pass through New Zealand instead of passing by it. It is not a fact, as yon have been told, that the feeling of Victoria is against the Californian Service. The Aye, one of the most influential papers in Victoria, recently published an article, saying that New Zealand was very much to be praised for the very vigorous actmn taken in the matter ; that this Colony had set an example which it was much to be desired should be followed by Victoria. One matter connected with this service you will possibly think but trilling, but to my mind it is one that will lead to the establishment of an enormous industry in the future. I think that it is beyond question that with the aid of these steamers we shall be able successfully to acclimatise salmon in tbe rivers of New Zealand.—(Laughter.) These large steamers are fitted with immense icehouses, and salmon abound in California. The steamers will be able to bring down regular supplies of ova, and in the course ot a not long time we may’ have the rivers of this colony teeming with that noble fish. What does that mean ? Not merely that the people of Now Zealand may have the luxury of eating salmon, but that an enormous trade may consequently grow up such as has grown up in connection with salmon in the United States and in Great Britain. THE TELEGRAM QUESTION. I will now refer to the action of the Daily Times in its endeavor to damage the Government, by its allegations as to the stealing of telegrams. I give to those charges, one and all, an absolute denial—they are utterly and entirely false.—(Applause.) The Telegraph Department has not, in any sense or way, violated the integrity of any telegrams committed to its charge for transmission. I grant that there were circumstances connected with the matter that might fairly’ have led the Daily Times to ask tor explanation. But instead of taking that course, it rushed to the conclusion —and announced it to the public—that the Telegraph Department, acting under instructions from the Government, had been stealing telegrams addressed to the paper; and no language has been thought too strong—no pertinacity too great—for the purpose of enforcing the accusations made. Again and again the accusations have been stated —again and again the threat has been made, that proceedings would be instituted against the Telegraph Department, if the Government did not admit that that had been done which the Daily Times charged to have hcen done. The threats of instituting proceedings were by no means ambiguous. Under the impression that such threats, once made, would be carried out, the Government refrained from doing that which otherwise it probably would have done—from instituting criminal proceedings against the paper on account of the libels it had published.—(Cries of “ Oh ! oh ! ” “ Hear, hear,” and a good deal of applause.) I want you to understand, and j to recognise the force of the fact, that the ! ex2)lanations to be given in meeting in detail | charges of such a kind, are explanations which it would be a violation j of the secresy of the Telegraph Office j to give, unless those explanations were brought out in a Court of Law. I could not now give so full an explanation as I am about to give, were it not for the fact that

the editor of the Star very generously came to the rescue the other day, and stated iu the columns of that paper, that which otherwise I should not have been at liberty to tell to yon, because it would have been a violation of tho law regarding the Telegraph department. You will, no doubt, many of you, recollect that the great mystery, and the great point point made by the Times was that, on the morning after the Times extra was published here, the Wellington Independent published news containing a paragraph identical with what appeared in tho Times, and therefore, as the Editor of the Times said, it was only by a stealing of the telegrams that that paragraph could have appeared in Wellington. What the Star said the other day was this—That it had telegraphed tho Times telegram to the Independent. Tho Telegraph Department, or the Government, would have had no right to state except in Court of Law —no matter how grievous and false the charges made—that tho Star, or that anybody, had sent a certain telegram from Dunedin to tho Independent : tho fact is a secret which, I beg of yon to remember, wo could not have disclosed except iu a Court of Law ; but the explanation of the Star places me at liberty to say that the explanation as to that paragraph from the Times extra appearing in the Independent of the next morning, is simply that tlie Star telegraphed the Times extra, or a portion of it, to Wellington, on tho same day as it appeared here ; aud therefore, it could and did appear in the Independent on the following morning. to the telegram sent to the Hon. Mr Gisborne, for tho Government. That telegram was sent by the Collector of Customs at tbe Bluff. The Times has said that tho telegram could not have contained the information it did contain, without its being stolen from the Times telegram. in the face of

that statement, would you believe—it may bs difficult to do s i, but nevertheless what I shall state is a fact—that the Times telegram was opened on beard the Gothenburg, in the presence of one of tho directors of tbe Times Company, and was then read by the ciptaiq? (Applause, and “Oh! oh !”) The captain of the Gothenburg, living so seen tho telegram, told to the Collector of Customs the news which the Collector telegraphed to Mr Gisborne for the Government, —(Hear, hear.) But, of co .rae, the Times lias suppressed the fact as to the, opening the telegram in presence of one of tbe directors of the Times Company. —(Applaua-.) Next as to the first telegram to the Independent. As to it, again, the statement has been made that part of it could not have been obtained, except by being wrongly taken from the Times telegram.— (A Voice ; Oh ! get on ! That’s enough about the Tini"s. ) The telegram to the Independent from the Bluff, certainly contained some of the late news. That late news was sen’, by the purser of the Gothenburg ; and he states that he got his information in the Melbourne A ryvs office. It is true, that Mr George, of the Argus, states that the third edition, containing the late news, was. not out when the Gothenburg left. The probability, however, is that the news contained in the third edition was in the A rgus office before the Gothenburg left. Ac all events it is sufficient to say that the purser gave in, at the Bluff, the late news for the Independent which appeare 1 iu that paper’s extra ; and that tho purser says lie obtained his information from tlie Argus office. Ho has made that statement to Mr Lemon, the General Manager of the Department; he has made it to Mr Mackenzie, the proprietor of the hidependent. Whether he obtained his information in that way, or through the captain of the Gothenburg, who read the Times telegram on board tlie ship, and in the presence of one of the directors of tho Times tho fact remains that the purs -I - of the Gothenburg is the person who sent this late news from the Bluff to tho independent. Such, then, arc the explanations of tlie three circumstances so much relied on by the Times :—Tbe information in Mr Gisborne’s message was supplied by the Collector of Customs at the Bluff, who got it from the captain of the Goth-mburg. As to the late news contained in the first telegram sent to the Independent, the purser of the Gothenburg is responsible for it. The news whioli appeared in the Independent on the next day, and which was copied from the Daily Times extra, so appeared, because somebody in Dunedin cut it out, took it to the Telegraph Office, and it was transmitted and paid for like any other Press Message. (Applause, and some interruption) The telegraph operators are in such mutters mere machines ; they simply receive messages and transmit t’cm to their destinations. The operators have not violated the integrity ot the department; and the charges that they have done so arc (A Voice : Lies.) —yes, that is the short English of it—arc absolutely false and scandalous charges —( oud applause, and some hooting.) Hie Times has sought to injure tho Telegraph Department, hy stating that it was not worthy of that confidence, without which such a department must be worthless ; and it is impossible to use language too strong to be just in denouncing such attempts. Will you believe that whilst the Editor of the Times was threatening legal proceedings, the directors were writing to the Government asking for explanations ? The Government replied that no explanation would be given until there had been a complete retractation: until all threats to institute legal proceedings had been withdrawn, and an apology for the language used in the paper had been published. What did tho directors reply ? That they had nothing to do with what the Editor had stated —(laughter); that they had nothing to do with threats of legal proceedings—(laughter); that no doubt tho Editor would apologise, if he was iu the wrong—(loud laughter, followed by bootings) ; and that if the Editor had threatened proceedings, he had done so on his own account.—(Confusion and laughter, and a cfy, ‘‘ Do get-done with the Times.”) A reply was sent, that if the directors would apologise for what had been published in their paper, an explanation should be given to them—but not otherwise. Of the explanation that would have been’given to tho directors, I have now told you the substance. You may perhaps suppose that in to-morrow’s paper a humble apology will be published ; because I am sure you must feel that'.the explanation now given is absolutely conclusive.—(Hear, hear.) I do not like assuming the functions of a prophet; but looking at the wrong-minded-ness which has characterised the paper, I venture to say that instead of a humble apology being published, you will probably find that Sairey will amuse herself by abusing me.—(Laughter, and a cry of, “Well, have you done with the Times now ? ’) POLICY OF THE GOVERNMENT. I now come to the Immigration and Public Works Policy of the Government. As you are aware, probably, it was a question of great anxiety to decide, whettier oar measures should be gone on with during the last session, or whether the decision ns to those measures should be relegated to the constituencies. There were many considerations urging us to go on. First, there was the wish expressed throughout the country.— (Cries of “No,” and “ Yes ”) am), by many members of the Assembly. Then there was the great necessity that plainly appeared, for prompt measures being taken to deal with the depression existing throughout tho country ; and, lastly, there was a very nice question relating to the propos-d Guaranteed Loan. The Government had pressed upon them the considerations—That vre might reject the guaranteed million altogether ; or that if wo accepted it, and did not secure that tho conditions of the loan harmonised with a policy meant for the colonisation of New Zealand as a whole, tlie Government would find themselves pledged, of necessity, to a merely partial plan for public works. That was a great difficulty. Either we had to make the million guaranteed loan harmonise, as regards its condition, with our whole policy, or we must accept and use the million without coming to a conclusion as to how it could be used so that works carried out with the money should be part of a scheme extending over the whole country. Wo could not but recognise that there had been of late a complete suspension of Colonising operations. Wc could not shut our eyes to the fact that, however admirably tho Provincial system had, in some parts of tho Colony, done its work of Colonisation up to a certain point, the Provinces generally had come to tail in doing their duty in that respect ; that tbe Provincial bodies could not be stimulated to the needed work ; and that it was absolutely necessary the Central Le-

gislaturc should undertake the work, if it was not to he left unattempted. That which 1 have just said is as applicable now to Otago as it is to any other Province. I tell you that cither you will have to submit, as you have submitted during the last two or three years, to a total suspension of that progress which you have a right to expect, or to secure that programs you must go to that larger power which the Central Legislature possesses, and the advantage of which power will be afforded to you by its Colonising policy.—(Applause, and “ No, no.”) But the whole subject was at the outset surrounded with difficulties. These difficulties were such, perhaps, as many of you can hardly realise. There were difficulties arising from the existence of the Provincial system. I for one have always said, and I say now, that the system worked well in the past; still its existence did create difficulties in the way of a really Colonial system of public works. Then wo had difficulties arising out of the different divisions as affecting the two islands. We had the great difficulty that it was necessary in making provisions for works in any one Province to lay down a basis which would enable ns to carry out works in any or all the other Provinces Another great difficulty was the state of chronic discontent throughout the country, consequent upon the manner in which the outlying districts were being neglected. We found that year after year the settlers in those districts were 'complaining, and justly, that still their wants were not attended to. The partnership between the Colony and the Provinces—that is to say, the mode in which the Provinces participated in the general revenue of the Colony—was still another great difficulty. Amt lastly, there was the question of Defence expenditure. Whatever you may hear to the contrary, believe me that it is absolutely necessary in attempting any scheme of operations by which it is provided to look beyond the current year, it will be an absolute essential to success that provision should be made for Defence. The self-reliant movement only that the Colony should relieve the Imperial country of the charge of defending New Zealand, and that it should take that charge upon itself. I con-’stoutly opposed that policy, but when once it had been adopted in New Zealand, it was perfectly chime’ ioal to suppose that it meant anything else hut that the Middle Island was committed for all time to contribute towards the Defence purposes of both Islands. To got rid of that partnership we recognise that payments on account of Provinces must be upon a definite scale, instead of their getting a moiety of the consolidated revenue. We proposed to commence a capitation allowance of L2 per head fo ■ the first year—the amount being reduced 2s per year until it reached 30s. On the other hand, we proposed that, afr.er the present year, as against the reduction which I hj ive stated, half of the amount of the stamp duties realised in each Province should he made specially applicab’e to meeting railway charges within the Provinces respectively. As a matter of fact, how has this new mode of payment affected Otago ? There arc only four months of the new system available for me for the purpose of comparison—namely, July, August, September, and October; and I find that, during those four months Otago has gained L 3,381 by the capitation system, as compared with the previous system of a moiety of the consolidated revenue. The subsidy to the road boards throughout the Colony has been made matter of law. This is a thing about which many of you may not care much, but allow me to say that there is nothing in connection with my political life of which I feel more proud than that I can claim to have been one of the authors of the measure passed by this Province for giving to up-country districts L2 to every LI raised by them as rates. Under the system as established we see that roads have been constructed moat extensively; that the work has been done esonomically ; and that settlement has been very greatly aided. I believe that there has been nothing in connection with the Provincial system in Otago which has really been more beneficial than this system of L2 to Ll, and now the Assembly has said to the Provinces that not only shall money be spout in the town, hut that a portion of the revenue settled by law shall absolutely be appropriated year by ye.tr iu aid of road districts. —(Applause.) There was a measure which the Government brought before the Assembly, which it was not successful in carrying. It was the amended Tariff. That measure was by its opponents cal ed protection, and was therefore opposed. We said that it was sheer folly to talk of attempting to deal with the great question of colonising the country unless sonn means were provided by which the population inside the country and those whom wo wish to invite to come into it, should find occupation in various industries.—(Applause.) We said that the industries existing in the country required to be stimulated, and we proposed not to impose a heavy taxation, but to give some slight assistance through the tariff, by which we are fully assured that many local industries would bo encouraged, and that agriculturists would be enabled to find a profitable market for their produce. I say distinctly we do not propose to increase the taxation of the country. We said—“We are so circumstanced that a certain amount of money must be raised by means of the tariff. Why should not that amount be raised from articles which might be manufactured in the country ?” It people choose to be luxurious or fashionable enough to demand to have imported articles—if they are not content with tho homely wares which might at first be produced hero—if tho New Zealand wheat and flour produced from it are not good enough for them—why should they not he required to contribute some little extra amount of duty to the revenue, in order to give some stimulus to the industries of tho Colony? (Applause.) Wo do not propose to establish a permanent system, for we lay it down as an absolute rule that there should not be any endeavor to encourage any industry unless we are able to bo fully satisfied that, so assisted, that industry would, within a reasonable time, become so thoroughly established as to enable it to be profitably carried on without any assistance whatever. To use an ordinary phrase : w.e only desire to see industries which wa are sure may be carried on hero sot upon their legs,” and thus started upon their career of usefulness.—(Hear, hear.) We contend that arguments based upon circumstances existing in or. affecting old countries do not apply to a new country. We said, “ Here, in New Zealand, we arc in a new country, which is at present very sparsely populated, and which is capable of producing all the food necessary for the use of its population. And we ask whether it was reasonable that we should- continue to see our own

population idle, while, in order to procure the necessaries of life for our colonists, we are profitably employing the populations of far distant countries. (Hear, hear,) We ask that there must be some self-as-isting principle brought into operation in the Colony. And I ask you now why should the people in this Colony be left without employment, or compelled to leave the Colony to seek employment, whilst we are of necessity consuming what could be produced here, .and which is produced for ns through the profitable employment of other countries. (Hear, hear.) Whatever may bo the theories that led to the establishment of free-trade in Great Britain, where it is im possible that the land should yield sufficient food for the people, these theories do not and cannot apply to such a country as New Zealand.—Applause, and a cry of “ What about the Victorian tariff.”) As Victoria has been mentioned, I will use another argument, namely, that what we proposed was merely a defensive tariff. Whatever we produce or make and send to Victoria, is there taxed heavily, and other of the Australian Colonics are following in the wake of Victoria. Are we to he content to be the receptacle for the produce and the wares of the Australian Colonies, admitting them duty free, and yet to sec that whatever we send to those Colonies is subjected to a heavy duty. Vic oria was the first to commence a system of protective duties. Queensland has now put a protective duty on grain, although that Colony has nothing like the means of producing grain which we have in New Zealand. In New South Wales it is proposed to impose a duty of LI a bale on flax. Are we to stand tamely by while all this is being done, and—-I do not wish to speak of retaliation — not to take heed as to the interests of our industries? —(Hear, hear.) A Joint Committee of the two Houses of the Assembly was appointed to take into consideration the whole question of local industries, and the mode or modes in which it was possible to give them some assistance. That Committee E repared a most interesting report, which as been published, and the House of Representatives passed a resoluti n empowering the Government to such an extent as they might consider reasonable, without having the absolute power of law to carry out effectually the recommendations of the Committee. The Government are disposed, as far as they possibly can. even during the present recess, to give etfect to those recommendations. I will read a passage or two to show that the Committee labored very earnestly, and that they looked not at the circumstances of any one portion of the Colony only, but at the circumstances and the requirements of all parts. The Committee agreed to the following suggestions “That to promote the development of large tracts of country known to be aurift rous but at present unworked, owing to the absence of any adequate water supply, it is desirable that Government should grant pecuniary assistance to enable a sufficient aupply of water to be introduced. “That the law regarding the finding and working of minerals should be assimilated throughout the Colony. A mining population is always of a migratory character ; and to insure to the Colo»y the results of the observations and investigations of persons practically acquainted with minerals, it is essential that these should feel assured of being able to obtain a beneficial interest in their’discoveries, in whatever Province their business or inclination may lead them; The great attention paid to mining matters in Australia and California Is undoubtedly to a great extent due to the enlightened and liberal mining regulations which prevail there.” I think you will all admit that here in Otago your goldfields are indeed well worthy of consideration and of such assistance as is here pointed out. The Committee proceed : -. “ That the law as regards the working of quartz reefs should be altered, so as to adapt our legislation to the different circumstances under which quartz reefing is prosecuted in this colony, as indicated in Dr Hector’s evidence. It appears that in New Zealand the quartz reefs in which gold is at present generally mined are of a horizontal rather than vertical character, and thus quartz reef claims are likely to be worked out sooner than in most other auriferous countries. The present state of the law; it is probable, will practically put a stop to the working of these reefs when any considerable depth is reached, as it may pay a company to continue to follow the lode down to a greater depth when it may not pay them to compensate a neighboring claim for working in their boundary. “ There are many industrial pursuits peculiarly adapted to the Colony which might bo introduced with advantage, and would become sources of wealth to the Colony, if adequately protected during the period of infancy. That the present position of the brewing and malting branches is stated by the witnesses to be due to the protection they have thus received, which has raised them to such a state of efficiency that in a short time protection will probably cease to be necessary. That an iiuliscriminate system of protective duties is undesirable, and would bo injurious to the Colony ; but that a temporary protection to certain specified articles would devclnpe many manufactures peculiarly adapted to the Colony, and which once thoroughly established, would, be self-sup-porting and cease to require the fostering aid of protective duties. Amongst these the Committee would especially mention— Tweeds, cloths, and coarse woollen goods; rope and cordage, soap, starch, leather, malt.”

The committee recommended also that a system of bonuses should be established, and they say—- “ They would mention the following articles as deserving this particular encouragement —Oommou glass bottles, fast becoming scarce and too bulky to be imported to advantage, a bonus of, say Is per dozen upon manufacture of first 10,000 dozen; paper, printing or packing, a bonus of 10s per ream upon manufacture of first 500 reams of packing, and 20S per ream upon first 500 reams of printing paper ; woolpacks, Is Gd each for for first G,OOO ; cornsacks, Gd each upon first 20.000 ; scrim cloth, Gd per yard upon first 10.000 yards ; sugar or syrup produced from beetroots, the produce of the Colony, a bonus of LlO per ton upon first 100 tons of sugar, and L 5 per ton upon first 50 tons of syrup.” As to the beetroot sugar industry, I believe that it is one that may be raised in this Colony to an almost incalculable degree of iraportan e. (A Voice: “Why did you propose to take the duty off sugar ?”) I will tell you. Wc said that the tariff must be dealt with from time to time as necessity requires. It was quite reasonable to take the duty off during the year, so as not really to increase the total amount of revenue raised by the tariff; and we also say that whenever the {manufacture of the beet root

I sugar is established in this colony we should Ibo prepared to foster it, so far as Iwe possibly can, if not through the ! tariff, then by a system of bonuses. IMMIGRATION AND PUBLIC WORKS MEASURES. I will now proceed to explain the Immigration and Public Works measures, just premising that any of you will bs, able to refer to the Acta themselves in proof of the correctness of what I say. I have no words to express my feelings on finding that these measures have been made the subject of constant misrepresentation in Otago; that all sorts of ridiculous meanings have been given to them, and that you have not had published here in the newspapers anything like a complete account of the Acts. When the financial statement itself was published, it was iu order that you might he able to judge for yourselves. The first feature in the Immigration and Public Works Act to which I will refer is, that £400,000 is to be set apart, and to ho Colonially charged for the construction of roads in the North Island. That is one of the special amounts appropriated to the North Island ; but against it there is an equivalent amount, which it is provided shall bo applied iu aid of railway charges in the Middle Island. Thus taking the population basis for the present year there will be Ll 33,000 to conic out of the Colonial charge of L 400,000, which will he applicable to Otago for railway purposes. — (A Voice : “It’s no use your talking about railways here, for the Port Chabners line is a sample of them.”—lnterruption.) I can well believe that there are a few amongst you who would give their right hands almost rather than I should be allowed to explain the truth as to our measures of last session—that some of you have done sojjjmoh towards misdescribing and misrepresenting those measures, that you are, naturally perhaps, averse to the truth being made known. Understand that I have no wish whatever to refloat upon any large number of persons in Ot^go; but you must agree that a very few persons who are hearty iu the work may do a great deal of misrepresentation. When. I read the debates that have taken place in your Provincial Council as to the Colonising measures of the Government, and when I know—or believe at least - that some of the members of that Council were amongst those who at the recent meeting created the greatest noise, I have no doubt that there are those present who are anxious that the misrepresentations of which they have been guilty should not be exposed. I will now come to the provisions for the construction of Railways. Tho Governor may from time to time ask the opinion of any Superintendent as to the different Railways and tha different lines to he constructed in the Province : hut only those railways are to be constructed which shall be authorised by the Assembly. When we introduced our measures, there was a provision to the effect that railways might be constructed by the Government with the consent of the Superintendent; but the Assembly absolutely declined to pass the measures in so Provincial a form. We therefore had to modify them so as to provide that the Assembly should prescribe what should be done ; that the Government might consult the Superintendent as to what was advisable, and he might make recommendations which should be laid before the Assembly. Then the Act provides that those expensive things, Private Bills, which have hitherto been necessary before any railway could be constructed, shall be dispensed‘with iu future. The Governor may contract to pay for any railways constructed, in money, by grants of land, by leases of the laud, by guarantee of protits, or by subsidies. The Superintendents and Provincial Councils may recommend land to be set apart for the construction of railways. Next comes the clause that some of you will be very sorry to hear me read. You have been told over and over again, that you in effect were being asked to construct railways at your own cost for the North Island. That is one of the appeals that have been made to your feelings to induce you not to approve of immediate effect being given to our measures. But what is th(Vfact ? The Act makes it absolutely necessary that tho expenditure on railways should ho Provincially chargedexcepting of course >o much as may be hereafter paid out of the Middle Island Hailway fund. Let me read the clause to you. It is the nineteenth clause of the Act, and reads thus ;

“All moneys which shall from time to time he expended under the authority of this part of this Act on railways (except such as shall be expended out of the Middle Island Railway Fund Account) shall immediately upon such expenditure being made be charged against the Province in which the -works upon which such moneys shall have been expended are situate in the manner provided by the forty-fourth section of ‘The Public Revenues Act 18(57’ and the tenth section of ‘ The Payments to Provinces Act 187<> ’ Provided that as to so much of such moneys as shall be expended out of any loan such charge shall be the interest and sinking fund from time to time accruing due in respect of such moneys commencing from the date of the borrowing thereof and a proportionate part of the costs of raising such moneys.” That is, I think you will admit an absolute declaration that all moneys expended on railways with the exception stated, shall he provincially charged. (Applause. A Voice: Has Wellington got guy money to pay with?) Should lauds be accepted by the Government in lien of moneys charged against the Provinces, such lands are to he disposed of by the Assembly. Another proof that it is really meant that money spent upon railways shall be provincially charged, is afforded by the fact that half the duties on stamps collected in any Province arc subsequent to the present year to be set apart in aid of Railway expenditure. What would be the good I ask of making any such provisions as these unless the expenditure was to be provincially charged.—(A Voice: “Oh but some of the Provinces can’t pay at all.) Then they won’t get railways, my dear sir. —(Loud laughter and applause.) The total payments for Railways throughout the Colony* are not to exceed seven millions five hundred thousand pounds and two millions and a half acres of land. Remember that we had to provide for the construction of railways, not only in this province, but throughout the Colony. Wo had to provide for such works being constructed from time to time as might be necessary to enable the Colony to be really settled The seven million five hundred thousand pounds might include' construction through direct cash payments; guarantees; contracts to purchase lines at the expiration of given periods ; subsidies ; and also the value of any land in excess of two and a-half million acres. It will also include the amount of the Middle Island Railway Fund, and all moneys paid for land taken for Railway

purposes ; it being absolutely provided that the total money payments to he made on account of the construction of Kail ways shall not exceed L 2,000,000. But remember railways may be constructed upon gaurantees as well as by other means. The advices which we have recently received from London, tell us that in England our proposals have been so well received that there is very little doubt indeed, that wo can have railways constructed as the Assembly may please, either by guarantees or out of borrowed money. Now as to the provis’ons for works to give water-supply to the Goldfields of the Colony. The Governor may at the request of the Superintendent contract for works to supply water. The Governor may cause surveys and reports to be made, the total amount authorised to be spent on such works being three hundred thousand pounds. The works can only be constructed with the concurrence of the Superintendent.—(A Voice: And Provincial Council?) Yes, it is so—with the concurrence of the .Suiierititendcnt and Provincial Council, the Governor may conti act for works for the supply of water to the Goldfields, All payments made for sufth works must be a Provincial charge. You have been told here that Otago will have to pay fo.i the construction of such works on the Thames Goldfields but that is simply a mis-statement. —(A Voice : A lie.) Well -yes, that is the English way of putting it. There is a power in the Act to acquire land in the North Island and that has been made a great feature of by our opponents here ; it having been said that the purchase of those lands is to be charged to tho Colony, and that you in this Island will ithcrefore have to pay for that laud. But I tell you that everything that ingenuity and determination could effect to make it absolute and indispensable that the money for the purchase of those lands shall be charged to the Provinces within which they are purchased, has been done in our measures, and I venture to give a total and absolute contradiction to tho statement that it is possible that this Island should have been made to pay for the purchase of such lauds iu the North. Clause 34 provides that the Governor may acquire lauds iu tho North Island if he is previously requested so to do by the Superintendent, but ho- must previously make arrangements as to tho terms “ for charging against the Province the moneys to be expended” iu the purchase of such lands. I ask you to take hereafter the trouble to read Clause 34 of the Immigration and Public Works Act. I will not detain you now by reading it. To make it still more certain that the cost of these lands shall be Provincially charged, it is provided that in fixing the price to be paid the Governor shall be guided by “ an estimate based on the laws iu force in the Province .in which such land is, regulating the price at which tho Waste Lauds of the Crown may be sold.” In other words, the Governor is only to buy lands at suoh a price as will leave a profit upon their resale afterwards. By Clause 38 it has been specially provided that “ a separate account shall he kept by the Colonial Treasurer against each Province in the North Island of all moneys expended under tho provisions contained in this part of the Act, and also is to bo charged a rate of interest not exceeding six per cent.” We said iu tho Assembly that land in the North Island was selling for a few shillings, and in some cases even for a few pence almost per acre, and that if there was to be a policy of settlement we ought to acquire land in that island, which by its resale at a great advantage wi 1 tend to enable the North Island to contribute towards the liabilities of the whole Colony. Now as to immigration. Immigrants may be introducedxit the request of a •Superintendent and at his request only; when half the expenditure is to be charged to the Province at a rate not exceeding thirty shillings per head for every immigrant introduced ; the Colony that will derive benefit from the labors and expenditure of the immigrants paying the other half of the expense. That I say is obviously a very fair arrangement. I -wish to dispossess your minds of any idea that we desire to get people into the Colony and to set them down upon our shores regardless whether or not they are able to find employment. Let me read you a short extract from the Financial Statement: —

“The Colony requires immigration of several descriptions ; and it will be the care of; the Government, if power by legislation is given to them, to enter into agreements in relation to different parts of the Colony, in accordance, as far as possible, with the views of the local authorities and with local requirements. In placing immigration on this footing, I am not dealing with it in vague terms ; because it is part of the principle I desire to establish, that the only limit to profitable immigration is that set by a want of local preparedness to receive the immigrants. From whatever point of view you regard it, whether from the highest social or the narrowest pecuniary view, immigration is a profit to the State, if the immigrants can settle down and support themselves. If many thousands of immigrants, introduced at once, could earn a livelihood in the Colony, I would not hesitate to ask you to vote the money to pay for their passages. Long before the money would have to be paid, supposing it to be borrowed, the immigrants would recoup the amount by contributions to the revenue. Tint it would be cruel to bring out immigrants, if you do not see the way to their finding the} means of self-sup-port. £s every immigrant who becomes a settler will be a profit, so every immigrant who leaves the Colony, or is unable to procure a livelihood in it, will bo a loss. We therefore say that we will introduce immigrants only to those parts of the Colony which are prepared to receive them. What the nature of the preparation may be, it would be impossible now to define. It might he land for settlement ; it might be employment of an ordinary nature, or on public works ; it might be that facilities for establishing manufactories, or aiding special or co-operative settlements, were offered.”

—(Loud applause.) The other parts of the Act are of a technical nature. The principal of them, as I have already explained, enables us to dispense with private Bills for the construction of railways and works for the supply of water to the Goldfields to bo constructed.—(Mr Grant here attempted to make himself heard, but was speedily silenced.) I come now to a measure which it is very much for your interest that I should explain to you. It was the first of the measures meant to give practical effect to the provisions of the Immigration and Public Works Act. 1 refer to the Railways Act, 1870. I wish you to attend very carefully to what I say with regard to this Act. First it provides for the construction of a railway bridge across the Waitaki, between the i Provinces of Otago and Canterbury. Then it provides for the construction of the Otago Southern Trunk Railway from Dun-

edin to the Clutha. The other railways provided for are from Blenheim to Picton in Marlborough, from Nelson to Cobden in Nelson, and from Auckland to the Waikato in Auckland—the last named b dug the only line authorised to bo commenced in the North Island. The Act further provides for the construction of three portions of railway within the Province of Canterbury, at a cost if two hundred thousand pounds. For the bridge over the Waitaki the expenditure authorized is L 33,000. As to the Otago Southern Trunk Railway, we are authorised to do either of two things—to borrow money and to construct the line at an expense not exceeding five thousand pounds a mile, or to glv - a guarantee upon such an amount. The line between Blenheim and Picton may be constructed by guarantee only, upon an expenditure not exceeding three thousand five hundred pounds a mile, and the only authorised line in the North Island, that from Auckland to Tuakau in the Wwkato District, a distance of about forty miles, may be constructed by guarantee only, upon an expenditure not exceeding four thousand pounds a mile. The Act also authorises certain surveys to be made during the recess. Those being surveys of line-! from Invercargill to the Mataura, from Moeraki to the Waitaki, aud in the North Island from Wellington to the Seventy-Mile Bush, thence diverging to Napier aud to New Plymouth. The line with respect to which the greatest fight took place in the House was this one from Wellington to Napier and through Wanganui to New Plymouth. We had the greatest difficulty conceivable with regard to this line, because we said we would not consent to authorise its construction. We resisted to the last demands which were made to get the line included in the first Schedule as one that might be immediately constructed, although there was a powerful party in the House that demanded it should be so included. Wo said that we would not consent to anything mere than a survey until we knew how the line should be constructed, in what absolute direction, and upon what terms. And wo also said that when it was constructed it must bo paid for out of the proceeds of the land. We contended in fact that tliis North Island line should be constructed in the same way as the one between Nelson .and Cob icn, by giants of land. Some of the most magnificent of all the lauds in the Colony are available for the construction of the line, and we have no doubt that we can make arrangements for its being so constructed. We knew that this line would be the means of periAnently settling a large and most valuable portion of -the North Island, but still we declared to the House that we were not prepared, until we had real information upon the subject, to ask from the House authority to construct the line ; but wo said wo were perfectly ready to take authority to make the necessary surveys, and that next year we would bring down proposal.? for the construction of the line, with the understanding that the works must be jfaid for mainly, if not altogether, out of the land available for that purpose. OTAGO AND THE GOVERNMENT MEASURES. — SEPARATION AND CONSOLIDATION. One of my objects in coming down here was to make arrangements for the construction of the Southern Trunk Railway ; and I am met by the to mo astounding objection, that the Province —or the Provincial Council, rather —(toes not want the work to be done by the general (Government. See how you have been deceived respecting the liabilities consequent upon the construction of this line. We can construct the line, as I have told you, upon the guarantee systo-i, or by ca-L'i payment; and the cost of the work can be reduced from previous estimates, so as to bring it within the authority granted by the Assembly. The cost may be estimated at something like L270,()00. Out of the Middle Island Railway Fund, the Province will get —supposing the population of the Province during the next three or four years tb bear the same proportion as it lore last year to the population of the whole island—some L183,00f), which amount will be charged against the Colony, not against the Province, 'therefore, the Southern 'trunk Railway will cost Otago LSI), 000 or LOO,ooo.—(Applause, j Remember that wc have never proposed—in fact, we have never contemplated— extravagant lines. What we contend is, that jjtlie country needs cheap railways, really suited to its needs. 1 have bad the curiosity to inquire what has been spent in maintenance, &c., on the South Road, between Dunedin and Tokomairiro ; aud I find that from April Ist, 1803, to 31st March, 1870, no Jess a sum than LOI,OOO lias been expended on that portion of the road. (S ■usation.) 'lhe length is 37 miles, 1 believe. Compare that with the lust cost of a cheap railway, and remember that such cost will give you, not a road merely, but the means of using it — locomotives, aud so on. Then, you will see one enormous advantage of cheap railways over metalled roads. Cheap railways will afford facilities for settlers in the interior sending their produce to market, and of obtaining from the ports or centres of population and trade, those articles which settlers require. Speaking generally, railways here must cheapen the cost of living. And, in considering the question, you should not base arguments in favor of railways upon only assumptions that the lines will, in working, show a profit. All that a railway eaves to the people of the country, upon what they would without railways have to pay for the conveyance of necessaries, is to he regarded as profit resulting from the railways. Do you not know that such savings in New Zealand would represent an. enormous amount? Ami would it not be another great gain that settlers should be enabled to find profitable markets for produce which, in the absence of railways, they never can get to any market’—(Hear, hear) I am not here to express an opinion as to which island would be the more beuefittod by the colonising measures of the Government ; certainly, I am not going to tell you that the measures would benefit the South Island to the injury of the North. The North Island requires settlement; and it is a necessity for the South, that the North should bear a larger portion than it has hitherto home of Die special expenditure which falls, and must continue to fall, upon the South. It can only do so, as a result of settlement. The .Middle Island requires colonisation. Otago requires it no less than any other of the Middle Island Provinces ; and anyone who lias the necessary knowledge, and who will compare the present condition of Otago with its condition half a dozen years ago, will have no difficulty in concluding that, unaided, Otago cannot keep alive the colonising spirit which did animate it, and that some outside assistance is necessary. That assistance we desire to give, through the measures passed last session,—(Applause.) Year after year, the opinion of the Assembly

has been tested upon the question of Separation, in all its various phases ; but nothing like a majority in favor of any such proposal has ever been obtained. lam one of those who have worked hardest in the Separation cause ; but whatever I may think—whatever assistance 1 may have given, or may give, from time to time—l will not rush after Separation to the neglect of substantial, practical measures which I belief to demand consideration. —(Applause.) lam persuaded that to postpone the initiation of a thorough policy of public works until some possible measure of Separation shall hive been obtained, is to pursue a shadow and to neglect a substantial good.—(Applause.) As to the inuoh-talked-of proposal for a consolidation, so that there should be but one Province in each island, I was the first to elaborate in all its details a scheme for such a consolidation. I submitted my proposal in the Provincial Council of Otago so long since as 1860, but it was very feebly supported. I grant that, now, a greater number of supporters of Provincial Consolidation are to be found ; and I admit that it is not unlikely we are proceeding in the direction of such a consolidation. 'J’he re-union of Otago and Southland has been again and agajn spoken of as evidence of progress in the direction I have indicated. But the completion of the work will require much time; and it must be carried on voluntarily on the part of the different Provinces. If there is any attempt to rush the thing through, the attempt will be repelled, and must fail. In the Otago Council a resolution in favor of union with Canterbury was recently moved in a most abrupt way; the resolution was sent to the Canterbury Council ; and there it was met with a great cry of indignation, on the ground that Otago wanted to “ annex ” Canterbury. I say emphatically that the Colonising measures of last session do not affect, one way or other, the question of securing that there shall be only one Province in each island : except in this wAy—That the more we extend communication by laud between the different Provinces, the more wo shall cause to grow amongst the different populations a conviction that it is not necessary they should bo subject to different laws—(hear, hear)—and that the expense of so many duplicate systems of Government may be done away with. —(Loud applause.) la that way, our measures will tend to advance towards adopting such resolutions as those proposed last session by Mr Reynolds. I quite believe that our measures will lead up to the idea of a single Province for each island, ami so to a lessening of the number of small Governments. —(Loud applause; and a cry of “ What does Grant say to that ?”) To the allegation that there is to be a larger expenditure in the North Island than in the South, I give a flat contradiction. The one special expenditure for the’ North, is to be that for Defence Purposes ; and I repeat that under any conceivably possible plan of Separation, Defence expenditure will still have to be made a charge upon New Zealand as a whole. What is the other exceptional expenditure for the North ? That for roads ; and it is counterbalanced by the Middle Island Railway Fund. The L 200,000 for the purchasing of laud in the North Island is jealously made a Provincial charge, to be dcfiayed by such of the North Island Provinces as receive the benefit of the exl«mdituro ; and the Governor cannot make any such purchase of lands until he has made arrangements by which the cost is to be charged to the Province concerned. WHY OT-VOO HAS REFUSED TO ACCEPT THE POUCV. The reason alleged here for non-accept-ance by the Provincial Executive and Council, is, that the measures are not sufficiently Provincial; but 1 say that those who so object do not give sufficient heed to the circumstances of the Province, even supposing their objections to be well founded. The Government were thwarted in their attempt to pass the measures in a more Provincial form than that in which they were passed ; the great opposition that had to be contended with being on the ground that, as framed, the measures gave too much consideration to the Provinces., It is true that Mr Rolleston, the Superintendent, of Canterbury, and Mr Macaudrew, the Superintendent of Otago, expressed much regret that the measures did not leave much more to be done by the Provinces • but the contentions of all other members "who at all opposed tbc Government, had an entirely opposite direction. Any concession tha' could be secured, in the nature of power taken from the Provinces, was eagerly welcomed by a largo section of the House; and I am thoroughly convinced th.it if the Acts were hereafter altered, it will bo in tbo direction of making them less acceptable, rather than more accept able, to to you here in Otago. Supposing there is any force in the arguments you have hoard in the Council Chamber behind 1110 —for I have no doubt that many of you have attended, and listened to tbc eloquence aired in that Chamber during the last two months (iaughtcr)—that Otago is now being asked to construct railways for the rfft of the Colony, is it likely that you will persuade the representatives of the rest of the Colony to repeal, or greatly to modify, measures which are so advantageous to them *— (“ Hear, hear,” and applause.) Ido not admit that the effect of the Acts is at all as you have been told ; but, granting for the moment that it is true, can you really believe that the rest of the Colony will consent to give up what they are said to have gained? If not, then I ask you, is it wise, as a more matter of policy, for Otago to say, “ Wo will not have railways, or other works, constructed under these Acts. What we want wc will construct for ourselves ” ? I submit to you, that from the very standpoint of these Otago opponents of the colo.nising policy, the Conduct of those opponents is simply ridiculous. —(Applause, and a cry of *• Bravo ! Give it to ’em.”) I tell yon that, in Otago, you have never yet had anything like unanimity amongst your representatives. You never have had a voting power of 15— the number of your members ; but very often your members have voted eight on one side and seven on tbc other, so that you have had a voting power of just one. I do not believe there is now any better chance than before, of your yetting as representatives men who arc all of one opinion. - - (Applause.)- You may succeed iu keeping the Colonising Acts as they are ; and so long as you do that, you secure that each lio a ino ■ shall bear its own liability for public works. You may yet them altered. lam not ref. rnng to amendments in details ; because L (U> not for an instant pretend to think that it may not be shown that great amendments in details arc necessary. But 1 fool warranted in saying that any radical alterations which may hereafter be male in tbo Acts will bo Much as to make them more distasteful to Otago in the sense that they, will lessen the power of

control to the Provinces as such. The question before you is not whether Otago should construct public works for itself, or should have them constructed by the Colony in the manner prescribed in these Acts, but the question really is whether Otago should have works constructed under these Acts or should go without public works at all. —(Applause and "No, no.”) Yes, that is the question, believe me. The argument that has been used, that by taking advantage of these Acts you will be bound by them is puerile. That argument was urged when I pressed upon the Provincial Executive the duty of taking all advantage of these Acts. If the Executive use our measures, and then find that amendments are necessar} 7 , the Executive would have a stilus enabling them to suggest what amendments should be made. But I put it to you very directly, what heed do you think would be paid by the Assembly to objections or suggestions by those who have stood by in mere sullen determination not to allow the measujxs to be used by this Province ? The argument that the measures are not to be used because the Province will be bound by them as it were, is of a very narrow and contracted nature, and one which would sacrifice to a misguided feeling the best and immediate interests of the Province. —(Hear, hear ) 1 told you the other niglit in the theatre that the letters recently received from Home give us the most pleasing assurance that the prognostications uttered here, and which have especially been appearing in the Daily Times, that our measures would not be accepted at Home, have not been in any sense realised.—(lnterruption.) It is no light thing, believe me, that a newspaper with a large circulation, and called the leading journal of the Province, should endeavor pertinaciously to throw dirt upon the Colony. What could be more injurious in its way than the repeated declaration that because of these measures New Zealand securities would go down to a great extent on the English market ? But that declaration has not been verified, although the Daily Times has not told you so. I beseech you, whatever may be our internal 1 quarrels, let us endeavor—to use a very homely adage —to wash our dirty linen at home.— (Laughter.) Why, because of some local quarrels should endeavors be made to injure the value of our securities at Home ? —(Hear, hear.) Understand me that I do not wish to blame the Provincial Executive for the position they have taken. I am very sorry that this deadlock should have occurred, but I have no doubt that the members of the Provincial Executive have acted conscientiously in the matter. —(Laughter, groans, and " Oh, oh.”) I may believe that they might act conscientiously, and yet Ixdieve them very foolish, you know. (Laughter.) One thing I do complain of and that is this : I am quite sure that the Provincial Council was deceived in the matter; that it was not allowed to understand before passing its resolutions that the Government were prepared to go on with their colonising measures. On the very last day of the session a member who 'had voted with the Executive asked that works for the supply of water to tile Goldfields shouldbe proceeded with, although ,tbe resolutions of the Council involved a refusal to allow them to be proceeded with. Clearly the Council did not understand that the difficulties arising out of the war were really at an end, so far as our scheme was concerned. The Government communicated with the Superintendent recently and asked him if it was his desire that we should at once authorise a survey for a line between Tokomairiro and Tuapeka But no—the Executive would not have any such thing. I do not believe that the Council understood that there had been any such refusal to allow us to proceed with the survey —not that I admit the right to refuse because I believe that we still might cause such a survey to be made. The Executive have attempted rr talked of attempting to get the Clutha rai 1 ; way constructed under an 8 per cent. «u xrantee, while the General Government can do it without difficulty for per cent. —(Applause.) At one time I confess I thought ic desirable that the Clutha railway should bo constructed on an 8 per cent, guarantee, for then it seemed exceedingly improbable that the General Government would be able to do the work at such a coit as I say they are now able to do it. Yet difficulties arc'thrown in the way, and there is a pretence made of getting the work done under the Provincial Ordinances, although I know that thA*„ cannot be done. Yon have heard a great deal of talk about injury to Provincialism. las . the members of the Provincial. Executive especially, could anymore deadly blow at Provincialism be dealt than has been dealt®)? the scandal which has existed during the last few weeks since the Provincial Council met.—(Hear, hear.; Yon have seen day after day that the Council——(Mr Grant here commenced to vociferate from the outer edge of the crowd, but was stopped, but not until a good deal of interruption had been caused ) I know that it is very distasteful to some people to hoar such remarks as these. If it were not now as dark as it is — if you could only see the faces of those who have just been interrupting me—l think you would recognise some at least of those who have been backing up the Provincial Executive in their recent proceedings. I ask you again what could be more fatal to Provincialism than the scandal which has bodu erased hero in reference to the dead lock between tho Superintendent and his Executive. Day after day you have seen messages brought down from the Chief Executive, officer of the Province, and members of the Executive declining to pay any attention to them—allowing amendments to be moved upon thorn—in fact, allowing them to fare as best they might. I was Provincial Treasurer, as you know, for sonic years, but in my day, as soon as the Superintendent stated lie could not agree with his Executive, the Executive s*iid ‘ ‘ Then lie pleased to accept our resignations. ” (Applause.) We never in those days attempted to hold office in spite of the Superintendent, orto allowfiim to fling his messages ns it were upon the floor of the Council, leaving them there without anybody to look aftcJ them. Finally, the speech delivered by his Honor in dismissing tho Council was one of which the Executive knew nothing up to the moment of delivery. But what was the projiosal contained iu that speech? Neither more nor less than that there should (For conclusion of report, see Star.)