ANOTHER PROTEST

Evening Post, Volume CXIV, Issue 122, 19 November 1932, Page 13

ANOTHER PROTEST

EDUCATION PORTFOLIO

MR. FORBES WANTS FREE HAND

IAMENBITENT DEFEATED

Protests against the holding of the portfolio of Education by a member of. the Legislative Council ■were voiced in the House of Representatives yesterday, afternoon, when, the Education Estimates were being considered. An amendment to- reduce the vote by £10 as an indication •' that the portfolio should be held in the' elective ; Chamber was defeated by 34 votes to 24. .

'In briefly submitting the amendment," the Leader of the Opposition (Mr. H. E. Holland) said it was quite apparent that the portfolio should be held by a Minister sitting in the House. He was mating no attack on the gentleman who at present held the -portfolio, but urged that members were under a grave disability when the' Estimates of the Education Department were under consideration, by virtue of the fact that there was nobody who could answer the questions that were raised. "I intend to. support the amendment," said Mr.'H. S. S. Kyle (Government, Eiecarton). "When the recent deputation, camo to Wellington from the School Committees' Federation we had the, experience of having the.Minister present but not the liead of the Department. To-day the position is reversed. We have tUa head of the Department here but not the Minister. As a substitute we have the Prime Minister." The Prime Minister (the Eight Hon. G. -W. Forbes): A good substitute, too. "INTRA DlG.'^ • Mr. Kyle: I consider that it is infra dig for the Prime Minister to be here representing someone else. I think the Prime Minister should represent himself and the people of New Zealand. The House of Bepresentatives is composed of 76 Europeans and four Maoris, and I take it as a personal insult to myself and the other members of the House that we are practically told that we are not capable of holding the portfolio of Education. We have the member for Wellington Suburbs , (Mr. E. A. Wright) and the member for Kelson (Mr. H. Atmore), both of whom have previously held the portfolio, and we have the member for New Plymouth (Mr. S. G. Smith), who has had a long experience as chairman of one •of the most important education, boards in the Dominion. Mr. A. M. Samuel (Government, Thames) said that he was of the same opinion as Mr. Kyle.. "I think, along with a number of other members, that the portfolio of Education should be held by a Minister who is directly Tesponsible not only to his own constituents but to the members of this Chamber^ where he can bo: subjected to criticism, inquiry, and question," said Mr. Samuel. "I, like the Leader of the Opposition, am. not speaking from a personal point of view, because I have the highest regard for the Minister, but it is from, the public standpoint that I am. speaking." Mr. Samuel went on to refer to the school books 'contract, to which, he said, he took the strongest objection. , PKIME MINISTER'S DEFENCE, The Prime .Minister said it was not O.U unusual thing to have a Minister of the Crown, sitting in the Legislative Council. He thought it would bo very ■unwise to lay it down that in the selection of Ministers the Prime Minister should not have the right to use the men that he thought were best fitted for the job. The Prime Minister had to take the responsibility for the success or failure of what was done," and he should have the liberty of being able to select his own team. To his mmd it was absolutely necessary that- at a. time like the present they should have & man. as Minister of Education who had a wide experience. If the amendment were carried he . Would take it as a vote against his Judgment. If the House considered that hia judgment was not sufficiently good he vro)ild have to accept the vote," and^ he could assure the House that he -would uoi remain in the position for five minutes longer. "I would accept the vote as one of noconfidence in myself," declared Mr. Forbes. "I have taken the responsibilities of the portfolio so far as this House is concerned, and I don't lmow that anyone has suffered as a result" Referring to the school books contract, Mr. Forbes said that the Minister of Education had taken the whole matter to Cabinet, andi it had been unanimously approved. NO TREE VOTE. ','lt seems to be useless to try to get a free vote of the members of this House," declared Mr. E. J. Howard (Labour, Christchurch South). "We have always prided ourselves on tho fact that we have dealt with education on non-party lines, but as soon as an amendment of this sort is moved the Prime Minister makes it one of confidence, and prevents his supporters from giving expression to their opinions. If there was ever a time in the history of New Zealand when the Minister of Education should be in this Chamber, it is now."

Mr. J. McCombs (Labour, Ly ttelton j Tecalled a previous occasion, on which, a similar vote had been taken in the House, and said if Mr. Forbes had been in the House at that time he would have voted just as the Labour Party was voting now. ■ On a division, the amendment was defeated by 34-votes to 24. The division list was as follows:— Ayes (24): Armstrong Munro Carr JW. Nash . Chapman " O'Brien Coleman Parry H. E. Holland Richards ' Howard Samuel Jones Savago Kyle Sehramm Langstone Semple McCombs Stallworthy McKeen Sullivan Mason. Tirikatene Noes (34): v Ansell Initiator Bitchener Lye Broa'dfoot MeLeod Burnett MeSkimming Clinkard Macmillan - Coates Macpherson Cobbe j. N. Massey Connolly . w. W. Massey Dickie Murdoch Endean . J. A. Nash Keld Ngata Forbes . Ransom Hamilton Reid Hargest Sykes Harris Te Tomo Healy Wright JuU Young